DB Cooper

[georger 244]

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Great find Snow. I wonder if he rode on the truck. Probably not. Could the alleged 4 AM incident have been a separate one from the 7:30 one? Oh well.

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I thought the idea of a bucket list was silly, until I read one that said "Have a relationship with a woman from every continent"....
Hmm. I can see how it makes sense now. Planning involved.

Is Antarctica a continent? If so, what are your plans?
Do the Slovenians have an Ice Station Zebra down there? I think the Argentines have a few.

Ricky Nelson's "Travelling Man" comes to mind...

377

(sheeesh...americans )

Of course Antartica is a continent! It's a land mass, not ice like the Arctic. Interesting fact: did you know it is the driest continent in the world?

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The ice is 2 miles thick over a rock core...

[BruceSmith 3]

The fact is that the flight path was over Troutdale and not over portland. The reason for this was, It was the less populated area. The pilot's were given a choice . They could either go East.From the flight patern (23V)or west toward's the ocean . They chose east.The weather was ,to say the least bad. The wind's were rough . The altitude of the aircraft was above certain turbulance's. When you get close to the columbia River Gorge the air current's change rapidly .Every one alway's thought that the flight path was over portland then followed I,5 not true. The original calculation's were wrong . The pilot's flew to the east to avoid all populated area's. Back in the early 70's Troutdale and gresham had little population. Hope this bring's you up to date.

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I just received an email from Galen Cook that discusses the flight path. Here it is:

Bruce:

You can throw this around the Drop-Zone gang if you want to give them more to chew on. I talked with H.E. "Andy" Anderson tonight for an hour. (Sorry, but he does not want me to give his number out to anybody). He told me this: The cockpit crew saw the illumination from the lights below (of Portland/Vancouver) through the lower cloud cover.

He called it the "undercast illumination," since there was a lower cloud deck. That means the air-route of #305 led right over Portland/Vancouver, just like the radar track shows.

Second, he said that when the plane landed in Reno, the crew stayed in the cockpit thinking Cooper was still on board.

So, put this together...............none of the crew knew for sure that Cooper even jumped despite the "pressure bump" registered on the plane's guages. They thought there was a "possibility" that he might have jumped. Thus, the pressure bump was so subtle, they could only guess. This means that Cooper could have bailed-out well past Battle Ground.

Anyway, Andy is a real gentleman. Former 747 captain later in life too. Great-grandpa now. He told me the truth of the matter is that no one in the cockpit really knew IF and WHEN Cooper bailed-out. They only knew for sure when the FBI came on board in Reno.

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[georger 244]

So I'm either going to follow that sage, kind and humorous advice so freely offered by Jerry Thomas or accept my technical, social and intellectual short comings and remove myself knowing I couldn't even achieve the vaunted rank of D B Cooper NOOB.

"WE WANT YOU AT PENN STATE!" (jo Pat.)

[JerryThomas 0]

Bruce . If you ask Galen again he will tell you that the flight path was accross troutdale. Now also ask him who actually was flying the aircraft. I'm sure he will tell you that I am correct.Jerry Ps. Ask the person that was flying the aircraft at the time.One more thing question the radar statement you will find it very interesting.

[snowmman 3]

Jerry said "Zazi . You kind of took my post wrong."

Jerry. Zazi is in jail. He didn't listen to the training, to just shut up. He only lasted thru 3 days of enhanced interrogation techniques. That's nothing. What a wussbag.

I've temporarily taken over control of the doomsday device Mertvaya Ruka and the teams.

This is to instruct you it's No Go! Do you understand me?! NO GO on Marylin Rexroth Doyle -- No Go. It's a no go! Get it? No one any the wiser. Okay! No no! No contract! It's all over. It's a no go, Joe. Hikaru no Go.

[JerryThomas 0]

Snowmman. realy . Time to show all. Jerry Ps I realy did not understand your last post. Please explain . Was it a riddle.

[snowmman 3]

Thanks for the great work with Anderson. (edit) oh I see you got it thru Cook...still good work.
Per usual.
You're the trained professional, man with a badge, etc.
A keyboard and a phone in Bruce's hands: deadly weapons.
If he had a damn working computer, there'd be hell to pay.
Hey did you get the monitor issue fixed? Is it still flipping off?

Good confirmation on the flight path and lights.

[snowmman 3]

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Snowmman. realy . Time to show all. Jerry

I'm huge. What more to show?

[JerryThomas 0]

Snowmman. Your Braging again . Or maybe your Imagination Has finally left this earth and is now orbiting MAR'S Jerry

[skyjack71 0]

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The witch is gone. Lets make the most of it!

Beware of those who will deceive others and extract secrets to find their fame , The witch hasn't died, so the troll is unable to reveal found and concealed "evidence".

If you do not wish to hear the clacking of the witches finger then remember this. Speak Not ill of the witch who remains silent unless she is conjured up with words of falsehoods.
PS - Some really intelligent posts recently...with few exceptions. Jerry's posting skills and use of the English language along with the spelling - made a drastic improvement?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

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Snowmman. realy . Time to show all. Jerry Ps I realy did not understand your last post. Please explain . Was it a riddle.

Riddles?

Ok.

Cooper was tried and convicted, and came to court to be sentenced.

The judge told him, "You may make a statement. If it is true, I'll sentence you to four years in prison. If it is false, I'll sentence you to six years in prison."

His lawyer, 377, leaned over and whispered in Cooper's ear. Snowmman shot rubber bands at the bailiff. The rubber bands crumbled into dust on impact.

After Cooper made his statement, the judge decided to let him go free. What did Cooper say?

[377 22]

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I’m also having a very interesting ethical debate with myself over whether it is permissible to snatch a couple twenties so I can prove to you guys that I actually made it when I do.

Don't take a twenty Bruce. Ray Bradbury knew about the horrible consequences of tranporting material across time. Haven't you seen the movie (based on a Bradbury Story) Sound of Thunder???

Can you imagine the chaos if you took one of the twenties that was later found at Tena Bar?

Unless you can resist the temptation, please stick to remote viewing OK?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

OK, I admit it. Bruce has baffled me. At first I thought the alien stuff was a joke, then it looked like it wasn't. Now the teleportation clearly is... am i just being a complete idiot and taking Bruce seriously on his some of his views when they are about as real as Snow's amusing posts?! I'm lost. Whatever, I will chuckle to myself on whatever I find funny, while still showing much appreciation for the digging on the Cooper case.

(btw: I fully believe there must be extra-terrestrial life out there. I just don't believe anyone who claims to have actually seen an alien here. like Jerry says, keep an open mind, and I will; but so far i have yet to see any convincing proof that aliens have ever landed here, with the possible exception of the Nazca lines, but now this is really thread drift going too far...sorry!)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

Okay here's the problem with Orange1.

Orange1 would say the answer to my riddle is:

Cooper said "You'll sentence me to six years in prison." If it was true, then the judge would have to make it false by sentencing him to four years. If it was false, then he would have to give him six years, which would make it true. Rather than contradict his own word, the judge set Cooper free.

But what actually happened:

Cooper said, "You can't sentence me without reading the entire Cooper thread at DZ.com."
The judge mulled it over, and set Cooper free.

[377 22]

Alien intelligent life is highly probable but I think the only way it will touch Earth is by radio waves. The enormous distances, the difficulty of providing life support for interstellar travel and Einsteins goddamned speed limit make personal visits highly unlikely.

There are some good articles debunking the alien explanations for the Nazca lines. Nobody wants alien contact more than I do, but the most likely form is microwave radio communication with perhaps thousands of years between each call and reply.

Bruce is a quandry. He understands science but believes in things that fly in the face of science. He isn't dogmatic. He can laugh at and also embrace what I see as gullibility and he sees as openness. You gotta like the guy even if you disagree with some of his far out beliefs. I was happier when I truly believed in Santa Claus. Maybe Bruce is onto something.

The value of his Cooper sleuthing is not diminished by his willingness to accept paranormal stuff as a current reality. While we blog in the cave, endlessly recycling speculative ideas, he goes above ground and actually talks to people with relevant knowledge.

Bruce doesn't think outside of the box. He doesn't even see the box. He sees an unlimited vista where I see a maze of hard stops such as the speed of light, Maxwells equations, Raleigh limits etc.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

"Terror suspect Najibullah Zazi was indicted Thursday by federal grand jury in New York on charges that he conspired to use weapons of mass destruction."

The filing also alleges for the first time that Mr. Zazi "purchased components of improvised explosive devices" and traveled to New York on Sept. 10 "in furtherance of his criminal plans."

"The new charge guarantees that Zazi will not be released pending trial and it’s important to remember that we still may see more charges here, including a terror support charge, once more information is known. But right now Zazi is looking at life in prison without parole if he’s convicted and gets the maximum sentence."

Now normal people will have been introduced to the concept of Zazi=WMD this morning.

But loyal thread readers knew that already.

I have mailed the attached letter to the relevant authorities.

Dear Mr. xxxx
As you know, I am under subpoena to appear before your committee on xxxxx.

I am most willing to answer all questions about myself. I have nothing to hide from your committee and there is nothing in my life of which I am ashamed. I have been advised by counsel that under the fifth amendment I have a constitutional privilege to decline to answer any questions about my political opinions, activities, and associations, on the grounds of self-incrimination. I do not wish to claim this privilege. I am ready and willing to testify before the representatives of our Government as to my own opinions and my own actions, regardless of any risks or consequences to myself.

But I am advised by counsel that if I answer the committee’s questions about myself, I must also answer questions about other people and that if I refuse to do so, I can be cited for contempt. My counsel tells me that if I answer questions about myself, I will have waived my rights under the fifth amendment and could be forced legally to answer questions about others. This is very difficult for a layman to understand. But there is one principle that I do understand: I am not willing, now or in the future, to bring bad trouble to people who, in my past association with them, were completely innocent of any talk or any action that was disloyal or subversive. I do not like subversion or disloyalty in any form and if I had ever seen any I would have considered it my duty to have reported it to the proper authorities. But to hurt innocent people whom I knew many years ago in order to save myself is, to me, inhuman and indecent and dishonorable. I cannot and will not cut my conscience to fit this year’s fashions, even though I long ago came to the conclusion that I was not a political person and could have no comfortable place in any political group.

I was raised in an old-fashioned American tradition and there were certain homely things that were taught to me: To try to tell the truth, not to bear false witness, not to harm my neighbor, to be loyal to my country, and so on. In general, I respected these ideals of Christian honor and did as well with them as I knew how. It is my belief that you will agree with these simple rules of human decency and will not expect me to violate the good American tradition from which they spring. I would, therefore, like to come before you and speak of myself.

I am prepared to waive the privilege against self-incrimination and to tell you everything you wish to know about my views or actions if your committee will agree to refrain from asking me to name other people. If the committee is unwilling to give me this assurance, I will be forced to plead the privilege of the fifth amendment at the hearing.

A reply to this letter would be appreciated.

Sincerely yours,

Snowmman

[Farflung 0]

377, 1969912 and Snowman,

Thanks for the humor, feedback and sanity check.

I fumbled with the last part of my tome. I was trying to illustrate how the suggestion of reading all past posts to a new person would take almost a year to complete. While the clock was ticking would anyone know if I was diligently reading or simply left the forum in abject disgust? Sorry, I wasn't trying to be a 'Drama King' nor take my ball and go home. In all candor, after reading some of the comments produced by Jerry Thomas I probably spent too much effort trying to modify a behavior which serves no purpose. Jerry Thomas may not have the capacity to appreciate the consequences of his posts. This could be fueled by a blinding passion associated with Washougal or a simple lack of situational awareness driven by a void of social skills through a very limited and overloaded processor. I am supremely confident, Jerry Thomas has no idea what the last sentence conveys.

PS- Mary Ann!!

[Orange1 0]

Not sure if this has made the news over there. Just goes to show what "amateurs" can do, especially using methods of which many would say "you don't really believe that's gonna work, do you..."

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12:42pm UK, Thursday September 24, 2009

An unemployed man has unearthed the largest hoard of Anglo-Saxon gold ever found with the help of his metal detector.

Experts are now calculating its value - a process that could take more than a year because of its size.

The find was declared as treasure by coroner Andrew Haigh, which means the cache will be offered for sale after it is valued.

Terry Herbert from Burntwood, Staffordshire, stumbled on the hoard in a private field with his trusty 14-year-old metal detector.

Over five days in July, the 55-year-old dug up a fortune on the farmland near to his home.

More than 1,500 pieces of treasure - including around 5kg of gold and 2.5kg of silver - has now been uncovered.

Archaeologists believe the hoard dates back to the seventh century and may have belonged to Saxon royalty.

Among the riches are warfare paraphernalia, including sword pommel caps and hilt plates, often inlaid with precious stones.

Leslie Webster, former keeper at the British Museum's Department of Prehistory and Europe, said the find would "alter our perceptions of Anglo-Saxon England as radically, if not more so, as the Sutton Hoo discoveries".

"(It is) absolutely the equivalent of finding a new Lindisfarne Gospels or Book of Kells," he said.

Dr Kevin Leahy, national finds adviser from the Portable Antiquities Scheme, added that while the quantity of gold was amazing, the craftsmanship was "consummate".

"Its origins are clearly the very highest-levels of Saxon aristocracy or royalty," he said.

"It belonged to the elite."

The exact location of the find is being kept under wraps.

Unemployed Mr Herbert detected the cache after asking a farmer friend if he could search on his land.

"Imagine you're at home and somebody keeps putting money through your letterbox, that was what it was like," he said.

"I was going to bed and in my sleep I was seeing gold items.

"As soon as I closed my eyes I saw gold patterns, I didn't think it was ever going to end.

"I just kept thinking of what I might find the next day."

Now, both men looked set to reap a huge reward thanks to Mr Herbert's 18-year hobby.

"People laugh at metal detectorists. I've had people go past and go, 'beep beep, he's after pennies'," he said.

"Well no, we are out there to find this kind of stuff and it is out there.

"People have said it (the hoard) was bigger than Sutton Hoo and one expert said it was like finding Tutankhamen's tomb.

"I just flushed all over when he said that. The hairs on the back of my neck stood up, you just never expect this."

Once a valuation and sale of the hoard have been completed, the market value of the find will go to Mr Herbert and the owner of the farmland where it was discovered.

The treasure is being held in secure storage at Birmingham Museum and Art Gallery.

A selection of items will be displayed at the museum from September 25-October 13.

from http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Staffordshire-Hoard-Largest-Ever-Anglo-Saxon-Gold-Find-Unearthed-With-Metal-Detector/Article/200909415388189

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 22]

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and so on. In general, I respected these ideals of Christian honor and did as well with them as I knew how. It is my belief that you will agree with these simple rules of human decency and will not expect me to violate

Lillian Hillman and HUAC. McCarthyism. The Commie menace survived. Dumb liberals. Where is good old Joe when we really need him and his boys Dick Nixon and Roy Cohn...

I think these occasional FBI "made to fit" terror orgs are a hoot. They cant find Bin Laden or any really serious players, so they market domestic wannabes as the real deal. Did Zazi have any old radium dial watches or clocks? If he did he'd be nuke terror suspect and the FBI would have saved us from the big one. Even a disassembled smoke detector might be enough. If that doesnt get Sluggo back nothing will.

I guess it gets boring for those FBI agents who pose as 11 year old girls on chatrooms trying to snag a solicitation. At least Ckret gets to chase real bank robbers.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Saddam Hussein, leader of a sovereign state with billions of dollars of oil revenue -> No WMD
Sluggo_monster, atomic energy wizard -> No WMD, just some guns
Najibullah Zazi, shuttle bus driver -> WMD

Fodder for the DB Cooper thread -> priceless.

Hey I was thinking I have the immunity idol. As long as you start blabbering about DB Cooper and cow mutilations, you can do whatever you want.

I'm starting to feel the "immunity idol effect" that Ted Braden must have felt.

Can't touch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9nptjUs9FM&feature=related

(edit) Evidently there's a claim of purchasing "stuff" now.
Will be interesting to see what. I'm wondering how these purchases tie to the claim of big Uhaul trucks. Do they have the stuff he bought???


from foxnews
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,555041,00.html
"purchasing — on multiple occasions — the components necessary to produce TATP [Triacetone Triperoxide] and other explosive devices"

also
"We believe any imminent threat arising from this case has been disrupted, but as always, we remind the American public to be vigilant and to report any suspicious activity to law enforcement."

"The investigation is being conducted by the New York and Denver FBI Joint Terrorism Task Forces, which combined have investigators from more than fifty federal, state and local law enforcement agencies."

Remember it's spelled "s-n-o-w-m-m-a-n" ...Two m's.
I'm going to drop a dime on a couple billion rounds of ammunition.

[snowmman 3]

no problem here.

In terms of useful info

-There is maybe 100 tidbits total of useful info in the history. The accuracy of the useful stuff was improved over time, but never summarized. There is no consensus anyhow.
So it's not worth going back. If you want to look up something, the forum search tool might help, although you have to know what you're looking for.

-I always tried to provide the source reference, while also copying info/images in case the source disappeared.

-In terms of forum behavior...This thread has seen it all. There's nothing you can bring in terms of attacking the participants that hasn't been already done.
Everyone is kind of battle hardened.

-So in the context of all that, what's the point? Who knows. What is amazing, is that this simple little thing, continues to spawn B.S. Witness Jerry, who gets some slack because he's a true Vietnam vet. (you missed our long journey thru Apocalypse Now recently)...Witness the recent Nat Geo documentary, where the central theme, by citizen scientist (singular) was recanted by Tom K within hours of the broadcast.

etc.

In the big picture, Bruce's cow mutilations fit right in.

Wait till you see skyjack71 (Jo Weber) let loose.

How does it hang together? It's the ultimate big tent.

Now Orange1. She's a smart hot jumper babe from South Africa. 'nuff said.

[snowmman 3]

this is reminding me of the classic teenage chemist attempts to make something that blows up. (edit) Actually I'm just noticing, it's not Zazi, but 3 other individuals that purchased the items separately?

Maybe he did think he was going to be a terrorist.

Interesting that this stuff qualifies as WMD...

Note to Zazi disciples: next time, just shoplift the six bottles. That's what everyone does.

I wonder how many WMDs you can make in the US from shit that's lying around? Who needs nukes, I guess.

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_13410936

The government in the documents also said that "individuals associated with Zazi purchased unusual quantities of hydrogen and acetone products in July, August and September 2009 from three different beauty supply stores in and around Aurora." One bought a one-gallon container of a product containing hydrogen peroxide and a bottle of acetone. Another bought acetone in September. Another bought bottles of Ion Sensitive Scalp Developer, according to the document.

The FBI investigators found that Zazi rented the same hotel suite in Aurora on Sept. 6 and 7, where subsequent FBI testing revealed the presence of chemical residue in a vent above the stove, the document said.

Bomb-making notes later found on Zazi's laptop, seized from his rental car by police in New York, included information about heating bomb components to make them highly concentrated, the document said. "A lawfully-authorized search" of the laptop indicated that, on Sept. 8, "Zazi searched the internet for locations of a home improvement store" in Queens and then searched a store's website for muriatic acid, a diluted version of hydrochloric acid - before renting a car.


weird about the hotel suite. Not the obvious place to experiment with chemistry.
Will be funny if the wedding cake thing turns out to related to a real wedding..hotel suite=wedding? :)

(edit) oh I accidently overwrote one post:
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/zazi-arrest-nyc-terror-plot-suspect-bought-chemicals/story?id=8662211

Liquid Developer Clairoxide, Ms. Kay's Liquid 40 Volume and Ion Sensitive Scalp Developer were among the products the government said Zazi and other un-named coconspirators purchased this summer.

An employee at one beauty product supply store told ABCNews.com that FBI agents had shown a photo spread of three men with beards and two young, blond-haired women. One of the men was recognized as Zazi, said the employee who asked that her name not be used.

Authorities say Zazi and the other alleged terrorists actually tried to mix the chemicals at a hotel suite Zazi rented in the Denver suburb of Aurora on Sept. 6 and 7.

Court documents say Zazi sent text messages to the others, "each communication more urgent in tone than the last - seeking to correct mixtures of ingredients to make explosives."


more detail (I still don't understand why they needed the UHAUL truck). And where is this stuff now? Does it matter?

http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=123857&catid=339
The indictment states there are surveillance videos and receipts that Zazi purchased six bottles of "Liquid Developer Clairoxide" from a beauty supply store in Aurora on July 25.

The document goes on to describe how videos and receipts also show that on Aug. 28 Zazi purchased 12 32oz bottles of "Ms. K Liquid 40 Volume", another hydrogen peroxide based product form the same store.

Records cited by the government in the indictment also show Zazi stayed at a nearby hotel suite in Aurora on Aug. 28 that was equipped with a stove to practice working with the chemicals.

Others associated with Zazi made purchases at beauty supply stores, according to the indictment. One person purchased a one-gallon container of a product containing 20 percent hydrogen peroxide. A second person purchased an acetone product during the first week of September. Yet another person purchased 32 ounce bottles of "Ion Sensitive Scalp Developer" a product with high levels of hydrogen peroxide on three occasions over the summer of 2009.
..
A search of Zazi's laptop computer shows on Sept. 8, the Aurora man did several searches of home improvement stores within the zip code 11354, the zip code for the Flushing neighborhood of Queens, New York where the FBI did the initial raids in the case on Sept. 14. He also did searches, according to the indictment, of several types of "muriatic acid" and viewed one type - "Klean Strip green Safer Muriatic Acid" - multiple times. According to the government this product claims to have lower fumes and is safer to handle than standard muriatic acid.



Snowmman Industries would never rent a hotel suite to mix chemicals. Not fair to the other hotel customers.

[snowmman 3]

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_13410936


"The government moved this morning to drop the false statements charge in Colorado, in light of his indictment in New York. Mohammed Zazi is in the process of being released in Denver, on electronic surveillance, amid reports from 9News and others that he'd be subpoenaed to appear as a witness in New York. It was unclear where he would stay because landlords have moved to evict him and other relatives from their apartment."


How can he be a "witness". (edit) Ah..it's the dad that's being released. My error.

The others are disciples. Najibullah is the kingpin. "Varsity level".

(edit) dad is out on bond today. How can that be safe?

[377 22]

Zazi might really have been trying (incompetently) to make a bomb, but would the FBI please stop portraying minnows as great white sharks? It just makes the agency look ineffective and desperate. Where are agency's marketing/PR people? Surely they could have spun this bit player terrorist story more effectively.

The FBI failed to prevent 9-11, can't find Osama Bin Laden and still have no idea who Dan Cooper was.

They should just hunker down, keep investigating and not pump up minor cases.

Meanwhile, Ckret grinds it out, reading this forum for amusement and catching the endless stream of criminals dumb enough to do a bank job in "da 206."

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

I think I actually have a gallon or two of muriatic acid in my garage.

Hmm...let's see, I'm sure there's at least a 50 lb bag of some nitrate-based fertilizer.

I've got a few gallons of diesel fuel.

Acetone: check, got that. (it's amazing how much cheaper it is when you buy by the gallon, compared to the quart cans)

ice cubes: check

It's really hell getting rid of old paint though.

(edit) After you cook up the stuff in the hotel suite, how do you test it? I've seen videos where guys explode small quantites, but wouldn't that alarm other hotel residents?
I mean if it's crack you smoke it. What do you do after you've cooked up in a hotel suite?
All the rednecks on youtube seem to prefer basements, garages and the "woods" for large tests.

(edit) I suppose we'll see new license requirements on hair salons, now that people know they distribute ingredients for WMDs to anyone with a twenty.

(edit) Hey! I just thought of something. My garage is unlocked. Is someone out there going to rip me off and I get blamed?
Hmm. Okay, here's my cover. I have 30 locks on my garage and a sophisticated security system. I'll just say they must have picked all the locks, using information from the internet. Whew..I'm safe.