georger 244
Notes, Money, Report on Mike McPheters Interview, September 29, 2009
Mile McPheters was warm and chatty as we began the interview, today.
“Oh, yeah, I was lucky enough to be part of the recovery of some of the DB Cooper money.”
But as I pressed for details, his became guarded. For example:
“Where the bills discolored in any way?
“Oh, yeah, sure.”
“Were they blackened, then, let’s say from bacteria or mold or fungus?”
“Ah, well, I’d have to go back and check the pictures of them.”
As for facts and confirmation, here’s what he told me:
Mike found pieces here and there in the high-tide area along the general area of the search. He repeatedly made reference to finding them in the evening , saying things like: “that night when I was there,” etc.
Mike said he found about 5, 6 or 7 pieces, and said they were frayed, as one would expect bills to look like after being in the water.
“They were very weathered-looking,” he said.
Mike was vague and confusing on the serial numbers, at one point leading me to believe that the bills he found had serial numbers, or parts thereof, visible. But when I pressed him on how big the pieces were that he found and did they contain lots of numbers, he hesitated and then got defensive, saying, “Don’t hold me to it,” or “That was a long time ago.
He finished by saying that “none” of the bills he found had numbers.
Mike stated that the pieces he found were generally 1” x 2.” Some were a little smaller, 1” x 1½” inch, and the biggest was 2” x 3.”
Mike said about 20-25 FBI agents were out there “that night,” including “a lot of supervisors.” Mike doesn’t remember if Ralph was there “that night.” Mike avoided my question of what it was like to work with Ralph, nor did he confirm that Ralph was in charge of the recovery effort.
Mike doesn’t remember the Fazios. “I don’t remember if they were there that night, or not,” he said.
Mike was on site for one “night.” He said he didn't remmebr how long the FBI was out at Tina's Bar.
When I asked Mike where he found the bills, he said along the high-tide line, but when I asked him if it appeared they had washed in, or were found at depth as if they had been pumped in by a dredge, he played it both ways.
“Yeah, they were right near the surface, not more than a couple feet down.”
I pressed him on how deep he dug, and if he could confirm Himmelsbach’s contention that shards were found three feet down. All I got was, “that was a long time ago, I don’t recall exactly.”
I ended the conversation because I felt I was losing him in terms of rapport and quality of information.
When I asked if I could purchase a copy of his book from him, he surprised me by saying, “It’s for sale at any Costco in Washington state.”
Mile McPheters was warm and chatty as we began the interview, today.
“Oh, yeah, I was lucky enough to be part of the recovery of some of the DB Cooper money.”
But as I pressed for details, his became guarded. For example:
“Where the bills discolored in any way?
“Oh, yeah, sure.”
“Were they blackened, then, let’s say from bacteria or mold or fungus?”
“Ah, well, I’d have to go back and check the pictures of them.”
As for facts and confirmation, here’s what he told me:
Mike found pieces here and there in the high-tide area along the general area of the search. He repeatedly made reference to finding them in the evening , saying things like: “that night when I was there,” etc.
Mike said he found about 5, 6 or 7 pieces, and said they were frayed, as one would expect bills to look like after being in the water.
“They were very weathered-looking,” he said.
Mike was vague and confusing on the serial numbers, at one point leading me to believe that the bills he found had serial numbers, or parts thereof, visible. But when I pressed him on how big the pieces were that he found and did they contain lots of numbers, he hesitated and then got defensive, saying, “Don’t hold me to it,” or “That was a long time ago.
He finished by saying that “none” of the bills he found had numbers.
Mike stated that the pieces he found were generally 1” x 2.” Some were a little smaller, 1” x 1½” inch, and the biggest was 2” x 3.”
Mike said about 20-25 FBI agents were out there “that night,” including “a lot of supervisors.” Mike doesn’t remember if Ralph was there “that night.” Mike avoided my question of what it was like to work with Ralph, nor did he confirm that Ralph was in charge of the recovery effort.
Mike doesn’t remember the Fazios. “I don’t remember if they were there that night, or not,” he said.
Mike was on site for one “night.” He said he didn't remmebr how long the FBI was out at Tina's Bar.
When I asked Mike where he found the bills, he said along the high-tide line, but when I asked him if it appeared they had washed in, or were found at depth as if they had been pumped in by a dredge, he played it both ways.
“Yeah, they were right near the surface, not more than a couple feet down.”
I pressed him on how deep he dug, and if he could confirm Himmelsbach’s contention that shards were found three feet down. All I got was, “that was a long time ago, I don’t recall exactly.”
I ended the conversation because I felt I was losing him in terms of rapport and quality of information.
When I asked if I could purchase a copy of his book from him, he surprised me by saying, “It’s for sale at any Costco in Washington state.”
snowmman 3
QuoteQuoteQuote
Himmelsbach's information regime at best covers up to the money find.
What "Himmelsbach's information regime" ?
Have you proof one ever existed? Exists now?
You make it sound as if it was H calling all shots
and directing-controling everything. That was
NOT the case.
Just more conspiracy theory on your part -
You mean the hundreds of newspaper articles interviewing Himmelsbach, are in error in their description of Himmelsbach as the lead in the investigation and rather than representing the investigation, Himmelsbach was just another blowhard?
Okay. I'll believe that.
I didn't make up the story that Himmelsbach had a lead role. It was in the papers. I suspect Himmelsbach said he was.
Did Himmelsbach not tell the truth?
Why cant Snoewmman find the truth, is more the point!
Where is the truth?
Here at DZ.com?
At Nat Geo?
At Seattle FBI?
From our guru, Zazi?
Bruce, writer, and cattle devotee?
Yes, I ask the same question, where is truth?
I'm confident, that with a C-123K, and some AFNO and HMTD and a uranium/gold mine in South Africa, I can find the truth.
It all came to me in a dream. Buddha was standing in the middle of the road. He was dressed as a South African miner.
I figured the rest out on my own.
snowmman 3
excellent job Bruce, as usual.
377 22
Nice job Bruce. Nice job Georger too.
Those Fazio cattle mutilations puzzle me still, even though they have no Cooper link. It isnt like the Fazios never saw a dead cow or the work of scavenger animals before. They saw something very unusual in their experience. Wonder what really happened? I dont think it was aliens, but what earthly creature did it, how and why?
Keep a close eye on your cows Georger.
377
Those Fazio cattle mutilations puzzle me still, even though they have no Cooper link. It isnt like the Fazios never saw a dead cow or the work of scavenger animals before. They saw something very unusual in their experience. Wonder what really happened? I dont think it was aliens, but what earthly creature did it, how and why?
Keep a close eye on your cows Georger.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 22
QuoteWhere is the truth?
Here at DZ.com?
At Nat Geo?
At Seattle FBI?
From our guru, Zazi?
Bruce, writer, and cattle devotee?
Maybe you ought to spend more time at that forest shrine near the Snowffortress. Find any more offerings there lately?
The FBI has to spin Zazi better. Even my right wing cammo couch potato patriot friends think it is BS. Of course how is the government going to attract top PR talent at those pay scales?
I wonder if crayfish inhabit the Columbia? They probably do. They could pick a submerged Cooper body down to the bone in a few months I bet.
If Cooper drowned, sooner or later someone would miss him, someone who had no stake in hiding his identity. Cooper didnt plan to die, so he probably didnt erase all traces before embarking on the hijack. He likely planned to blend back in. Surely he had a car somewhere, or relatives, or a neighbor or landlord.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
Bruce reported
"He finished by saying that “none” of the bills he found had numbers. "
In McPheters book, he says he found bills with serial numbers, and he put his initials and date and case number on the bills he found.
The initials on the bills we've seen aren't his initials. There is no date or case number on the bills we've seen.
I wonder if McPheters was fibbing about his contribution to the money find. Or maybe just weak memory.
this link has his book with what he said about serial numbers. He gives the DB Cooper think a whole chapter in his book.
http://books.google.com/books?id=fF4urADqI48C&pg=PA138#v=onepage&q=&f=false
from the book:
"While sifting through a parcel of the beach assigned to me, I turned up portions of soil containing pieces of paper currency approximately two inches wide, but still containing serial numbers that matched Cooper's demand money. [Ed. How did he know all the serial numbers when he was digging??]
I preserved each piece as evidence by storing them in plastic bags, tagging them with my initials and the date and case number. I kept digging. By late that night, and with the help of a good rake, I had found numerous pieces of the money, all of which matched up.
I documented my discovery as one of the most interesting reports I had ever written."
(edit) Also, why does he refer to "turned up portions of soil" rather than sand?
"He finished by saying that “none” of the bills he found had numbers. "
In McPheters book, he says he found bills with serial numbers, and he put his initials and date and case number on the bills he found.
The initials on the bills we've seen aren't his initials. There is no date or case number on the bills we've seen.
I wonder if McPheters was fibbing about his contribution to the money find. Or maybe just weak memory.
this link has his book with what he said about serial numbers. He gives the DB Cooper think a whole chapter in his book.
http://books.google.com/books?id=fF4urADqI48C&pg=PA138#v=onepage&q=&f=false
from the book:
"While sifting through a parcel of the beach assigned to me, I turned up portions of soil containing pieces of paper currency approximately two inches wide, but still containing serial numbers that matched Cooper's demand money. [Ed. How did he know all the serial numbers when he was digging??]
I preserved each piece as evidence by storing them in plastic bags, tagging them with my initials and the date and case number. I kept digging. By late that night, and with the help of a good rake, I had found numerous pieces of the money, all of which matched up.
I documented my discovery as one of the most interesting reports I had ever written."
(edit) Also, why does he refer to "turned up portions of soil" rather than sand?
snowmman 3
Bruce reported "Mike said he found about 5, 6 or 7 pieces, and said they were frayed, as one would expect bills to look like after being in the water."
I've seen wet bills go thru the laundry. I don't have any image of them "fraying"...Jeans fray. The bills tear easily when wet, if I try to separate them. I've never seen bills that just fall apart due to water. I think McPheters is making theories up.
I think McPheters doesn't have any idea what bills in water long term would look like, as opposed to various microbial or insect or other decomposition.
It seems like it's not just Himmelsbach and Ckret.
I think all FBI guys are story tellers.
Amazing we can convict people and kill them based on FBI testimony.
I've seen wet bills go thru the laundry. I don't have any image of them "fraying"...Jeans fray. The bills tear easily when wet, if I try to separate them. I've never seen bills that just fall apart due to water. I think McPheters is making theories up.
I think McPheters doesn't have any idea what bills in water long term would look like, as opposed to various microbial or insect or other decomposition.
It seems like it's not just Himmelsbach and Ckret.
I think all FBI guys are story tellers.
Amazing we can convict people and kill them based on FBI testimony.
georger 244
QuoteNotes, Money, Report on Mike McPheters Interview, September 29, 2009
Mile McPheters was warm and chatty as we began the interview, today.
“Oh, yeah, I was lucky enough to be part of the recovery of some of the DB Cooper money.”
But as I pressed for details, his became guarded. For example:
“Where the bills discolored in any way?
“Oh, yeah, sure.”
“Were they blackened, then, let’s say from bacteria or mold or fungus?”
“Ah, well, I’d have to go back and check the pictures of them.”
As for facts and confirmation, here’s what he told me:
Mike found pieces here and there in the high-tide area along the general area of the search. He repeatedly made reference to finding them in the evening , saying things like: “that night when I was there,” etc.
Mike said he found about 5, 6 or 7 pieces, and said they were frayed, as one would expect bills to look like after being in the water.
“They were very weathered-looking,” he said.
Mike was vague and confusing on the serial numbers, at one point leading me to believe that the bills he found had serial numbers, or parts thereof, visible. But when I pressed him on how big the pieces were that he found and did they contain lots of numbers, he hesitated and then got defensive, saying, “Don’t hold me to it,” or “That was a long time ago.
He finished by saying that “none” of the bills he found had numbers.
Mike stated that the pieces he found were generally 1” x 2.” Some were a little smaller, 1” x 1½” inch, and the biggest was 2” x 3.”
Mike said about 20-25 FBI agents were out there “that night,” including “a lot of supervisors.” Mike doesn’t remember if Ralph was there “that night.” Mike avoided my question of what it was like to work with Ralph, nor did he confirm that Ralph was in charge of the recovery effort.
Mike doesn’t remember the Fazios. “I don’t remember if they were there that night, or not,” he said.
Mike was on site for one “night.” He said he didn't remmebr how long the FBI was out at Tina's Bar.
When I asked Mike where he found the bills, he said along the high-tide line, but when I asked him if it appeared they had washed in, or were found at depth as if they had been pumped in by a dredge, he played it both ways.
“Yeah, they were right near the surface, not more than a couple feet down.”
I pressed him on how deep he dug, and if he could confirm Himmelsbach’s contention that shards were found three feet down. All I got was, “that was a long time ago, I don’t recall exactly.”
I ended the conversation because I felt I was losing him in terms of rapport and quality of information.
When I asked if I could purchase a copy of his book from him, he surprised me by saying, “It’s for sale at any Costco in Washington state.”
So now have we established there was a frag field
on and near the surface, roughly commensurate with
a recent hi-tide line. Tides are nice surface cleaners.
Make things obvious. They tend to lift things up
that were previously snagged or matted down.
And "weathered" and "having been in water" are two
distinct things.
georger 244
QuoteBruce reported "Mike said he found about 5, 6 or 7 pieces, and said they were frayed, as one would expect bills to look like after being in the water."
I've seen wet bills go thru the laundry. I don't have any image of them "fraying"...Jeans fray. The bills tear easily when wet, if I try to separate them. I've never seen bills that just fall apart due to water. I think McPheters is making theories up.
I think McPheters doesn't have any idea what bills in water long term would look like, as opposed to various microbial or insect or other decomposition.
It seems like it's not just Himmelsbach and Ckret.
I think all FBI guys are story tellers.
Amazing we can convict people and kill them based on FBI testimony.
But! were any of the bill fragments marinated
and eaten ... who provided the cases of beer?
thanks, y'all for the tip and the kind words.
snowmman 3
the main reason I believe McPheters is generally right, and maybe just a little fuzzy on some details, is that he had a pretty full career at the FBI. I pm'ed Bruce on details. It's in his book and in various interviews online.
It's such a minor thing, they're be no reason for him to make it up, just to say he was part of the Cooper thing.
So I think it played out like he said. He probably just can't remember exactly what the money looked like.
I was wondering if that first picture we have, where young people are there with rakes and shovels, and the video, ...if they are actually fbi agents. Or some of them. We were assuming students, but it's unclear.
McPheters would have been late twenties (i miscounted before).
It's such a minor thing, they're be no reason for him to make it up, just to say he was part of the Cooper thing.
So I think it played out like he said. He probably just can't remember exactly what the money looked like.
I was wondering if that first picture we have, where young people are there with rakes and shovels, and the video, ...if they are actually fbi agents. Or some of them. We were assuming students, but it's unclear.
McPheters would have been late twenties (i miscounted before).
georger 244
So I think it played out like he said. He probably just can't remember exactly what the money looked like.
I would suppose the frags were rather nondescript
and delicate.
I find the use of the word "weathered" interesting
becuase that may literally describe the whole
situation. The beach had weathered to the point
the bills began to be revealed just as happens with
any buried fossil or deposits on beaches, or in a hillside. This deposit was not suddenly thrust upon
Tina Bar by a single high tide. Frankly, that is absurd.
It's just too bad the scene wasn't treated as a
forensic archaeological site or we might have far more evidence tonight - we might not even be here.
He doesnt mention Palmer.
I found his one suspect with nicotine stained fingers
interesting. So close and yet so far - that has to be
frustrating.
[edit] Lets also note that McPheters outside of
leaning toward the 'he died' theory, does not
endorse either the Wahsougal or dredge theory
per se, but seems to remain open. That fits with
the side of the story I know amd remarked about
above.
The Cooper story seems to be taking on a more
human face. ?
snowmman 3
I did find a news article from back then, with the picture of the younger people with rakes and shovels. They were referred to as "fbi agents"
So maybe the 20 or so agents McPheters talks about, are those people intially with the rakes and shovels (before the backhoe)
So maybe the 20 or so agents McPheters talks about, are those people intially with the rakes and shovels (before the backhoe)
snowmman 3
georger said "This deposit was not suddenly thrust upon
Tina Bar by a single high tide. Frankly, that is absurd."
Right.
No bag.
fragments
dispersed at a consistent depth? (at least those found)
only 3 bundles found, stuck together.
preserved rubber bands. Means likely deeply buried for a long time (otherwise decayed faster? The deeper, the better, probably)
The bag by itself would not be sufficient to protect the rubber bands. Need to block out oxygen, I think.
Tina Bar by a single high tide. Frankly, that is absurd."
Right.
No bag.
fragments
dispersed at a consistent depth? (at least those found)
only 3 bundles found, stuck together.
preserved rubber bands. Means likely deeply buried for a long time (otherwise decayed faster? The deeper, the better, probably)
The bag by itself would not be sufficient to protect the rubber bands. Need to block out oxygen, I think.
georger 244
QuoteI did find a news article from back then, with the picture of the younger people with rakes and shovels. They were referred to as "fbi agents"
So maybe the 20 or so agents McPheters talks about, are those people intially with the rakes and shovels (before the backhoe)
I seem to remember Palmer brought some of his
students also, after he arrived. The photos would
show some portion of who was there. The excavation
at Tina Bar would make a nice thesis!
I am really surprised historians havent dug into
this case. I dont quite understand that.
georger 244
Quotegeorger said "This deposit was not suddenly thrust upon
Tina Bar by a single high tide. Frankly, that is absurd."
Right.
No bag.
fragments
dispersed at a consistent depth? (at least those found)
only 3 bundles found, stuck together.
preserved rubber bands. Means likely deeply buried for a long time (otherwise decayed faster? The deeper, the better, probably)
The bag by itself would not be sufficient to protect the rubber bands. Need to block out oxygen, I think.
Yes. block UV and O2. Its the sulfur bonds in the molecules that are most vulnerable, I think. That kind of protection could happen on the bottom of the Columbia or buried on shore, or in a cold wet bog, but once the few bundles that survived were exposed they could not have moved very much
without risking the brttle band fragments in place
around the bundles.
(Remember you posted one pdf about paper
survival in cold water environs...)
Bag fragments is the first thing I would have gone
after after the find ... any cloth frags or threads ...
actually more important than the discovery of the money in terms of forensics (to me). The existence of the bag would have been a concrete piece of evidence. So far as I know no cloth or threads of
any kind were ever found and do not appear in any report. Tom and I gave this matter a high priority
and I am not free to speak about that. (The results
are literally in the FBI's hands).
If there had ever been cloth on Tina Bar is surely
would have been found during the excavation,
either as a gross piece of evidence or microscopically.
Maybe McPheters could speak to this ?
I also like the feel of McPheters' article...
snowmman 3
I was sure I had read elsewhere, that the Fazios had spread the sand from the dredging on the beach where the money was found.
Looking back thru the posts here, Ckret confirmed it. He also gave exact dates for the dredging. I only had guesstimates as to the month.
Ckret says front loaders were used. I suspect these were front loaders attached to the tractors. Probably same tractors that had backhoe attachment on the money dig 6 years later!
Ckret said here (Nov 28, 2007 2:52 PM)
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3029469;search_string=fazio%20spread;#3029469
The river in the area where the money was located had been dredged August 19 through the 25th, 1974. The dredge material was deposited on the banks of the Fazio Brothers farms and spread by front loaders.
If Bruce gets a chance, he could confirm that the Fazios spread the '74 sand.
This would be in line with the geologist report.
I really don't get where Tom Kaye measures the location of the dredge plumes from the '74 photo, and decides that means "dredging spoils weren't involved". It seems like such a shallow analysis. And Ckret provides testimony that's relevant.
Looking back thru the posts here, Ckret confirmed it. He also gave exact dates for the dredging. I only had guesstimates as to the month.
Ckret says front loaders were used. I suspect these were front loaders attached to the tractors. Probably same tractors that had backhoe attachment on the money dig 6 years later!
Ckret said here (Nov 28, 2007 2:52 PM)
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3029469;search_string=fazio%20spread;#3029469
The river in the area where the money was located had been dredged August 19 through the 25th, 1974. The dredge material was deposited on the banks of the Fazio Brothers farms and spread by front loaders.
If Bruce gets a chance, he could confirm that the Fazios spread the '74 sand.
This would be in line with the geologist report.
I really don't get where Tom Kaye measures the location of the dredge plumes from the '74 photo, and decides that means "dredging spoils weren't involved". It seems like such a shallow analysis. And Ckret provides testimony that's relevant.
snowmman 3
QuoteQuoteI did find a news article from back then, with the picture of the younger people with rakes and shovels. They were referred to as "fbi agents"
So maybe the 20 or so agents McPheters talks about, are those people intially with the rakes and shovels (before the backhoe)
I seem to remember Palmer brought some of his
students also, after he arrived. The photos would
show some portion of who was there. The excavation
at Tina Bar would make a nice thesis!
I am really surprised historians havent dug into
this case. I dont quite understand that.
I guess someone summarized this before, but Palmer wasn't there till the 2nd day? And the backhoes weren't used till the 2nd day? I'm too lazy to look back in the posts.
snowmman 3
In the same post in 2007, Ckret agrees that sand is a preservative
Ckret says:
Once on shore the money was covered over by sand, which acted as a natural preservative, leaving what was left intact until it's discovery four to 12 months later.
But he decided that the money and bag was elsewhere (Washougal) in 1977 and floods moved it.
No supporting reason why on "why Washougal".
Basically there's no evidence that could be used to decide what happened from '74 to '80
There's no evidence to say that water moved the bag from '74 to '80. I don't know why Ckret leaped to that idea.
The depth of sand varies over the years on Tena Bar. Saying it's on Tena Bar from '74 on, is not some wild-assed theory. It's not much different, and simpler, than what Ckret proposed with a movement theory.
Actually Ckret blows it badly here: he says the money somehow, sans bag, gets into the Columbia in '78 or '79 and then arrives on Tena Bar.
It really seems like Ckret didn't know about the additional fragments...Because they make this theory sound crazy.
In 2007 he says:
Because it had been in the bag, the money had not began to disintegrate. Once out of the bag the money began it's slow rot, eventually making it into the Columbia sometime around late 1978 early 1979.
Once in the Columbia, the bundles began drifting down stream. It would have taken 14.7 hours for the bundles (if unobstructed) to make it to Tena's Bar, where 3 bundles washed up. Once on shore the money was covered over by sand, which acted as a natural preservative, leaving what was left intact until it's discovery four to 12 months later.
Ckret says:
Once on shore the money was covered over by sand, which acted as a natural preservative, leaving what was left intact until it's discovery four to 12 months later.
But he decided that the money and bag was elsewhere (Washougal) in 1977 and floods moved it.
No supporting reason why on "why Washougal".
Basically there's no evidence that could be used to decide what happened from '74 to '80
There's no evidence to say that water moved the bag from '74 to '80. I don't know why Ckret leaped to that idea.
The depth of sand varies over the years on Tena Bar. Saying it's on Tena Bar from '74 on, is not some wild-assed theory. It's not much different, and simpler, than what Ckret proposed with a movement theory.
Actually Ckret blows it badly here: he says the money somehow, sans bag, gets into the Columbia in '78 or '79 and then arrives on Tena Bar.
It really seems like Ckret didn't know about the additional fragments...Because they make this theory sound crazy.
In 2007 he says:
Because it had been in the bag, the money had not began to disintegrate. Once out of the bag the money began it's slow rot, eventually making it into the Columbia sometime around late 1978 early 1979.
Once in the Columbia, the bundles began drifting down stream. It would have taken 14.7 hours for the bundles (if unobstructed) to make it to Tena's Bar, where 3 bundles washed up. Once on shore the money was covered over by sand, which acted as a natural preservative, leaving what was left intact until it's discovery four to 12 months later.
Quote"This deposit was not suddenly thrust uponTina Bar by a single high tide. Frankly, that is absurd."
QuoteYes. block UV and O2. Its the sulfur bonds in the molecules that are most vulnerable, I think. That kind of protection could happen on the bottom of the Columbia or buried on shore, or in a cold wet bog, but once the few bundles that survived were exposed they could not have moved very much
without risking the brttle band fragments in place
around the bundles.
Bag fragments is the first thing I would have gone after after the find - any cloth frags or threads - actually more important than the discovery of the money in terms of forensics (to me). The existence of the bag would have been a concrete piece of evidence. So far as I know no cloth or threads of any kind were ever found and do not appear in any report. Tom and I gave this matter a high priority and I am not free to speak about that. (The results are literally in the FBI's hands).
If there had ever been cloth on Tina Bar is surely would have been found during the excavation, either as a gross piece of evidence or microscopically.
Georger - smile
Question FOR ALL. Can or could an individual change the parents names on a birth record? We are not talking about at birth,but later in life.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
snowmman 3
this is a good document
http://www.sei.org/columbia/downloads/karljune.PDF
from the recent columbia river channel improvement project
has color photos of all sections of the river from river mile 3 to 106.5
has some good flooded photos, you can see a lot of sediment.
I think one is at where the williamette comes in.
Graphs of channel depth vs distance from shore at various places
those graphs include 1981, 1990, 2000 data
picture of their pipeline dredge in operation on page 29
1986 sand wave movement graphs starting on page 36 (the sand waves move downstream)
page 39 shows 1986 sand waves moving downstream 0 to 18 ft per day. (depends on flow). avg height change of 0 to 2 feet.
another nice pipeline dredge photo on page 45. you can see a LOT of pipeline stacked up ready to be used.
page 47 shows the proposed dredging channel by vancouver lake and tena bar. NICE! probably similar to the channel they dredged in 1974
They show proposed disposal sites. I think one yellow there is Fazios? (attached..fuzzy)
page 58 another shot of the pipeline dredge (attached)
they do use a hopper dredge too ..page 61 (not sure if in 1974)
page 62 analyzes turbidity.
they classify the soil as
Silty clay
Clay
Sandy loam
Sand
Silty clay loam
The hopper dredge is apparently only Silty Clay Loam
So: it makes sense there was clay at Tena Bar.
They also say "hydraulic cutterhead" so that confirms they use cutterheads on the pipeline dredge
http://www.sei.org/columbia/downloads/karljune.PDF
from the recent columbia river channel improvement project
has color photos of all sections of the river from river mile 3 to 106.5
has some good flooded photos, you can see a lot of sediment.
I think one is at where the williamette comes in.
Graphs of channel depth vs distance from shore at various places
those graphs include 1981, 1990, 2000 data
picture of their pipeline dredge in operation on page 29
1986 sand wave movement graphs starting on page 36 (the sand waves move downstream)
page 39 shows 1986 sand waves moving downstream 0 to 18 ft per day. (depends on flow). avg height change of 0 to 2 feet.
another nice pipeline dredge photo on page 45. you can see a LOT of pipeline stacked up ready to be used.
page 47 shows the proposed dredging channel by vancouver lake and tena bar. NICE! probably similar to the channel they dredged in 1974
They show proposed disposal sites. I think one yellow there is Fazios? (attached..fuzzy)
page 58 another shot of the pipeline dredge (attached)
they do use a hopper dredge too ..page 61 (not sure if in 1974)
page 62 analyzes turbidity.
they classify the soil as
Silty clay
Clay
Sandy loam
Sand
Silty clay loam
The hopper dredge is apparently only Silty Clay Loam
So: it makes sense there was clay at Tena Bar.
They also say "hydraulic cutterhead" so that confirms they use cutterheads on the pipeline dredge
377 22
QuoteQuestion FOR ALL. Can or could an individual change the parents names on a birth record? We are not talking about at birth,but later in life.
Pretty hard to do as a covert forgery. Other inconsistent early versions might remain. Certificates have been amended by court order to correct patenity errors.
Why do you ask Georger?
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
You mean the hundreds of newspaper articles interviewing Himmelsbach, are in error in their description of Himmelsbach as the lead in the investigation and rather than representing the investigation, Himmelsbach was just another blowhard?
Okay. I'll believe that.
I didn't make up the story that Himmelsbach had a lead role. It was in the papers. I suspect Himmelsbach said he was.
Did Himmelsbach not tell the truth?
Why cant Snoewmman find the truth, is more the point!