georger 247
377 22
377, re your offer to simulate the jump in the same weather conditions, would you be prepared to do it in loafers?
Edited to add: and with a 'hard pull' rig?
You overestimate my braveness Orange. My perhaps ambiguous simulation offer was only to supply telemetry gear for an instrumented dummy drop.
Snow is the guy who is offering, for a fee, to do insane stuff personally. $1500 per day is actually cheap for risking your life. Nobody knows what Snow looks like. I worry he'd subcontract the jump for $500 and pocket the profit. Snowmman Industries leaves nothing on the table. If there is profit margin, however small, they are there. Need an overhauled engine or new ejection seat pyro pack for your L 39 or Mig 29 jet? Who ya gonna call?
I have made it through 41 years of skydiving by judicious use of of phrases such as "no, later, not with this much wind, that plane is waaay overgross, that child-pilot only has 20 hours in Twin Beeches, etc." I am adding a new phrase to my jumper cowardice lexicon: " nahh, let Snowmman do it."
No way would I make that jump in loafers with a C9.
I made over a hundred C9 jumps. My "affordable" canopy was tired and porous. Even in French Paraboots, every landing was brutal. If I didnt do good PLFs I probably would have broken something.
At night in the dark it would be very hard to even know when you were going to touch down. PLFs, from my experience, require good depth perception and visibility. Things happen too fast to do it by feel.
As for a hard pull rig, yeah, I'd do a hard pull military surplus rig jump IF I had a reserve and it was over a sunny DZ with cold beer below.
I am a jump wimp. No BASE, no wingsuits, no low hookturns, no tiny canopies... you get the picture.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Orange1 0
i didn't actually expect you to say yes 
but there we have it - not every jumper who was jumping at the time would have done that jump, even some with many more years accumulated experience since.
i still think cooper was one of 2 things: an experienced paratrooper who could have survived the night (note not just the jump), or a novice who didn't.
and in either case i don't think "but no-one reported him missing" is necessarily a dealbreaker for these arguments, for reasons discussed before.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
377 22
For all we know the chute got snagged on the stairs
(oscillations?) and Cooper got dragged along
spilling money and everything - somewhere?
Pretty unlikely, but it shows out of the box thinking which we need here. Can you imagine this happening and creating a "money contrail" over a wide swath of countryside? WILD!
I wonder if Cooper might have bounced up and down testing the stability of the stairs and waited perhaps another 5 or 10 minutes to leap, looking for landmarks or just open spaces? The FBI sled test argues that the oscillations or bumps were due to Cooper's departure, but I wonder...
It's funny how the forum has tides that go between Cooper died on the jump and Cooper lived. We seem to be at low tide now.
Want to do some more HAHO radio telemetry jumps this weekend, but NOAA is posting NW gale warnings on the coast. I'll have to scrub it if it is too windy at the DZ.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 22
Definitely not saying Cooper touched down in a planned LZ (or if there was one)- just saying he was able to see enough of the landmarks before hitting the ground to be able to know which direction to head. Cooper had lots of landmark targets one could see from the sky or in the fall. He knew exactly how the landmarks lined up - he knew this terrain extremely well.
---------------------------------
Tha's possible Jo, but seeing things from the air (just prior to exit) and from the ground (after landing) can be VERY different. I have jumped from a balloon. You get a good idea of what you are jumping into, but once on the ground unless there are familiar distinct landmarks, you can be pretty lost as to which way is out. Been there, done that over rural Illinois with one cornfield looking just like the next, no hills, and sun obscured.
If Cooper landed uninjured and could see familiar distinct landmarks, maybe he could have made it to a road OK, but then what? Flag down a motorist? Surely the next day the motorist would figure out what had happened and likely notify the FBI.
Cooper, during this phase of the forum's emotional tide, didnt make it out alive. Maybe we will be more optimistic in a week ot two.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
The CSG experimented with whether prop wash would churn up bodies littering the floor of the Williammette. Apparently it does.
It also shows that bodies can stay at the bottom.
Participants in the test were paid $1500.
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/06/third_body_found_in_willamette.html
Third body in a week found in Willamette
By Lynne Terry, The Oregonian
June 08, 2009, 10:08AM
Portland Fire & Rescue pulled the body of an adult male from the Willamette River this morning, marking the third body found in the river this week.
The body was recovered on the west side of the Marquam Bridge, said Lt. Mary Lindstrand, spokeswoman for the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office.
The man's identity has not yet been released by the Multnomah County Medical Examiner's Office.
Every year when the fleet rolls in to celebrate the Rose Festival, officials fish bodies out of the river.
"It's rather morbid," said Lt. Allen Oswalt, spokesman for Portland Fire & Rescue. "Anytime the fleet comes in, it churns up the bottom of the river."
He said bodies get stuck on items at the bottom of the Willamette River, which is cluttered with logs, shopping carts and other debris and when the big ships move through the water they unsettle debris and bodies become unhooked and surface.
But the fleet did not appear to be a factor with this latest body, Lindstrand said.
"This one is upriver from the ships so that had nothing to do with it," she said.
She said the recovery by Portland Fire & Rescue and the Multnomah County
The body of 29-year-old Ruby Zulma Smith, who had been missing since December was found within the past week along with another person that police have yet to identify.
Lindstrand said detective still have to determine whether that person would be the center of a criminal investigation.
It also shows that bodies can stay at the bottom.
Participants in the test were paid $1500.
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/06/third_body_found_in_willamette.html
Third body in a week found in Willamette
By Lynne Terry, The Oregonian
June 08, 2009, 10:08AM
Portland Fire & Rescue pulled the body of an adult male from the Willamette River this morning, marking the third body found in the river this week.
The body was recovered on the west side of the Marquam Bridge, said Lt. Mary Lindstrand, spokeswoman for the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office.
The man's identity has not yet been released by the Multnomah County Medical Examiner's Office.
Every year when the fleet rolls in to celebrate the Rose Festival, officials fish bodies out of the river.
"It's rather morbid," said Lt. Allen Oswalt, spokesman for Portland Fire & Rescue. "Anytime the fleet comes in, it churns up the bottom of the river."
He said bodies get stuck on items at the bottom of the Willamette River, which is cluttered with logs, shopping carts and other debris and when the big ships move through the water they unsettle debris and bodies become unhooked and surface.
But the fleet did not appear to be a factor with this latest body, Lindstrand said.
"This one is upriver from the ships so that had nothing to do with it," she said.
She said the recovery by Portland Fire & Rescue and the Multnomah County
The body of 29-year-old Ruby Zulma Smith, who had been missing since December was found within the past week along with another person that police have yet to identify.
Lindstrand said detective still have to determine whether that person would be the center of a criminal investigation.
377 22
Snow, your ability to find answers to the most obscure questions amazes me.
Could cooper's body be stuck in the river bottom muck?
Wonder why the "fleet" would churn up so much more than the constant passage of merchant ships?
Hey, did you see the FBIs latest hyper spin on Zazi? Their PR dept. must be operating the ultracentrifuge isotope separator they were unable to sell to the Muslims who operate the local convenience store. The FBI now describes him as a major terrorist suspect, planning a sequel to 911, etc.
The US can sleep well tonight. Zazi was surely the next Bin Laden.
377
Could cooper's body be stuck in the river bottom muck?
Wonder why the "fleet" would churn up so much more than the constant passage of merchant ships?
Hey, did you see the FBIs latest hyper spin on Zazi? Their PR dept. must be operating the ultracentrifuge isotope separator they were unable to sell to the Muslims who operate the local convenience store. The FBI now describes him as a major terrorist suspect, planning a sequel to 911, etc.
The US can sleep well tonight. Zazi was surely the next Bin Laden.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
Wonder why the "fleet" would churn up so much more than the constant passage of merchant ships?
It's the Williamette, not the Columbia.
I suspect they have more big boats docking on the Williamette during the Rose Festival..like the article says.
The Williamette dumps into the Columbia where we're interested, so it still applies.
It's interesting because it shows our various pet theories about how bodies behave in rivers, and whether all bodies are found, and whether money could go through dredges, are pretty much just wild-assed-guesses about how stuff really behaves.
snowmman 3
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/terror-plot-case-man-surveillance-denies-terrorist-connection/story?id=8711539
Here's the guy in NY where Zazi stayed at his house.
There apparently were backpacks there.
There's a picture of him there. Naiz Khan.
They had 4 teams (8 people) of FBI surveilling him while he did the interview with the news reporter.
I guess they're saying this guy wants to blow people up.
Seems like a stretch to me. Who knows.
He's not under arrest. But people seem to have convicted him.
He does have a beard. I guess that counts. A funny name.
But: he does have good prices for coffee on the sign behind him, for NYC.
Here's the guy in NY where Zazi stayed at his house.
There apparently were backpacks there.
There's a picture of him there. Naiz Khan.
They had 4 teams (8 people) of FBI surveilling him while he did the interview with the news reporter.
I guess they're saying this guy wants to blow people up.
Seems like a stretch to me. Who knows.
He's not under arrest. But people seem to have convicted him.
He does have a beard. I guess that counts. A funny name.
But: he does have good prices for coffee on the sign behind him, for NYC.
377 22
But: he does have good prices for coffee on the sign behind him, for NYC.
That alone is "grounds" for arrest.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
The photos are impressive. March of this year.
Photos: http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/crime/2009/03/12/photos_weapons_explosives_seiz.html
I wonder why he wasn't charged with WMD charges? Seems like a terrorist to me. Political issues mentioned below. He's only facing 6-1/2 years? We'll see him soon. Amazing number of grenades for his launchers.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008847849_webweapons12m.html
A Spokane man who was arrested in January after crates of military weapons were found in a Bellevue storage shed pleaded guilty this morning to five federal charges related to the illegal possession of firearms and explosives.
Ronald Struve, 65, faces up to 78 months in prison when he is sentenced on June 5.
Under a plea agreement with federal prosecutors, Struve pleaded guilty to five charges in U.S. District Court in Seattle involving the illegal possession of plastic explosives, a North Vietnamese machine gun, a silencer, grenade launcher and a grenade. He had originally faced a 117-count indictment.
Struve was arrested in January after federal agents found a cache of weapons and explosives in a Bellevue commercial storage shed. Agents discovered the arsenal after contents of the shed were auctioned after Struve and another man failed to pay the storage fees.
The new owner found crates and boxes filled with weapons and ammunition, included two grenade launchers, dozens of live grenades, military-grade plastic explosives and 37 machine guns.
Agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) raided other storage sheds and Struve's Spokane home, where additional weapons were found. ATF said many of the weapons were Vietnam-era military-issue and appeared to have been stolen.
One of the high-explosive grenades had been "dud fired," meaning it could have exploded if mishandled.
Prosecutors charged Struve with illegally possessing automatic weapons and illegally storing explosives.
Struve's attorney, Jay Stansell, said at a hearing in January that his client was a "loner-type person with some unusual political beliefs." He had been in possession of the weapons for years, Stansell said, and was apparently keeping them in anticipation of Armageddon.
Prosecutors this morning said they still didn't know how Struve came to possess the weapons and explosives.
Photos: http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/crime/2009/03/12/photos_weapons_explosives_seiz.html
I wonder why he wasn't charged with WMD charges? Seems like a terrorist to me. Political issues mentioned below. He's only facing 6-1/2 years? We'll see him soon. Amazing number of grenades for his launchers.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008847849_webweapons12m.html
A Spokane man who was arrested in January after crates of military weapons were found in a Bellevue storage shed pleaded guilty this morning to five federal charges related to the illegal possession of firearms and explosives.
Ronald Struve, 65, faces up to 78 months in prison when he is sentenced on June 5.
Under a plea agreement with federal prosecutors, Struve pleaded guilty to five charges in U.S. District Court in Seattle involving the illegal possession of plastic explosives, a North Vietnamese machine gun, a silencer, grenade launcher and a grenade. He had originally faced a 117-count indictment.
Struve was arrested in January after federal agents found a cache of weapons and explosives in a Bellevue commercial storage shed. Agents discovered the arsenal after contents of the shed were auctioned after Struve and another man failed to pay the storage fees.
The new owner found crates and boxes filled with weapons and ammunition, included two grenade launchers, dozens of live grenades, military-grade plastic explosives and 37 machine guns.
Agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) raided other storage sheds and Struve's Spokane home, where additional weapons were found. ATF said many of the weapons were Vietnam-era military-issue and appeared to have been stolen.
One of the high-explosive grenades had been "dud fired," meaning it could have exploded if mishandled.
Prosecutors charged Struve with illegally possessing automatic weapons and illegally storing explosives.
Struve's attorney, Jay Stansell, said at a hearing in January that his client was a "loner-type person with some unusual political beliefs." He had been in possession of the weapons for years, Stansell said, and was apparently keeping them in anticipation of Armageddon.
Prosecutors this morning said they still didn't know how Struve came to possess the weapons and explosives.
georger 247
and a money contrail surely would have left evidence found... one placard did!For all we know the chute got snagged on the stairs
(oscillations?) and Cooper got dragged along
spilling money and everything - somewhere?
Pretty unlikely, but it shows out of the box thinking which we need here. Can you imagine this happening and creating a "money contrail" over a wide swath of countryside? WILD!
I wonder if Cooper might have bounced up and down testing the stability of the stairs and waited perhaps another 5 or 10 minutes to leap, looking for landmarks or just open spaces? The FBI sled test argues that the oscillations or bumps were due to Cooper's departure, but I wonder...
It's funny how the forum has tides that go between Cooper died on the jump and Cooper lived. We seem to be at low tide now.
Want to do some more HAHO radio telemetry jumps this weekend, but NOAA is posting NW gale warnings on the coast. I'll have to scrub it if it is too windy at the DZ.
377
But imagine the door is open and stairs extended
and you are all alone and now free to do whatever
you will do. Do you jump por not? What kinds of
people would or would not. Is 25 years in prison worth not jumping and giving this charade up?
How much of a "grduge" does it take to jump
if you lack skills? Is whatever is pushing Cooper
enough to have him jump if he doesnmt have skills? Cooper has lucked out thus far, now its
jump or dont jump!
That is exactly what Cossey is getting to , that
Cooper got fouled up trying to get the chute open,
m,aybe never got the chute open. Cosey describes
two distinct actions required - pull out then up
(or was it up then out?). I probably would not
get the damned thing open!
For all we know the chute got snagged on the stairs
(oscillations?) and Cooper got dragged along
spilling money and everything - somewhere?
I just always have placed a lot of faith in what
Cossey has said. Cossey was pissed with this whole thing, thechutes that were selected/given, the
time element (mad rush), etc. But Cossey said
IF he got the chute open some body landed
somewhere (conscious-unconscious, alive, tree
enema, etc?)
Cossey also said the way Cooper tied the money
bag around his waste was an open invitation to
the bag coming up and knocking him unconscious
or worse..
And not one shred of chute or bag or anything
else found at Tina Bar or in its environs to date.
The money either flowed there magically, or it
was lost there (walked there), or it fell near there
from the air and worked it way to the bar from
somewhere not too far away ..