DB Cooper

[georger 244]

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Snowmman you forgot to mention, that he drove away in a volkswagon thing. At 8000 ft above the Gifford Pinchot National Forrest towing a briefcase.Shortly after he exited the aircraft.

You have mail:

[snowmman 3]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/bae-attack-america-to-ask-sfo-for-files-1797231.html

"There is also speculation the SFO might agree a civil settlement in return for a "scalp" – evidence that some executives were complicit in bribery. One observer said: "The idea that BAE might throw someone to the dogs in return for a civil agreement is intriguing."

Is that a threat? Are they going to throw SI to the dogs here?

I think the US has to invade Britain.

I mean, BAE systems is bribing Saudi Arabia and South Africa for these many-billion-dollar contracts. How can small business like Snowmman Industries compete with that?

In the name of Zazi, I hope the FBI gets to the bottom of this. Of course, any lying in the midst of a terrorism investigation will result in an immediate rendition flight.

Making a list and checking it twice:
1) South Africa invasion (delayed till after World Cup)
2) UK invasion (they do have good beer, after all)

[skyjack71 0]

Sluggo stated this a long time ago and I believe it will hold true in the end.

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Cooper wasn’t a “normal” person by most of our standards.

Thinking like a normal person, will not help anyone understand what might have happened. I respect the skydiver’s opinions (about skydiving issues), but they think of the issues like sensible people (assuming someone who jumps from perfectly good aircraft is sensible). They (we) need to think like a whacked-out, broken-hearted, pilled-up, suicidal, terminally-ill, poverty-stricken, nut case, with a grudge against someone and balls the size of grapefruits.

======================

Sluggo made the statment below and I believe we will find this will stand the test of time and the investigation;

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The FBI may (and probably does) have evidence and witness testimony that they will not or can not release. (Those things that they use to filter out kooks who want to claim to be Cooper).

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Tina wouldn’t even talk to reporters in Reno; she said the Captain had already stated that all information had to come from NW’s PR people or the FBI. So when Jake Kook says he is Cooper, the FBI says; tell us about it.

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I don’t really care if he lived or died, I just want to know which it was. I’ve known Skyjack71 for quite a while. She does not present herself well online. When you talk to her, (after you have earned her trust) you find out that there are a lot of things that would make you think, wow, that’s too strange to be coincidence.

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The FBI should be commended for allowing Agent Carr to work on the case. The way the investigation is perceived (at least by me) is that they just don’t have their head in the game. An example: The DNA from the tie. How do you determine that DNA on a tie came from the person wearing the tie (at the time it was taken into evidence)? Has this been done? How can you exclude Weber, based on the Tie-DNA, when he died in 1996 and the items sampled were obtained in 2002 (I think) with no chain-of-custody? Skyjack71 told them when they came to get them that they had been cleaned and used by other people. I want to help the FBI solve the case, but the FBI needs to help me get some facts straight.

==================

For reasons unbeknown to me when I have came to the site - and opened the thread tonight - it opened with his post...and this goes WAY back. I am sure he would not agree with his own statement made back then, but it seems to be coming down that way. Now there are more things to make one think WOW, this is just too much.
Even for me.

I hope Sluggo is well and I did leave him a message with a pilot question but, finally got an answer from yet another pilot. A suggestion had been made to me that when the flight tooks it's turn that he could feel the bank and that was his signal to go down the stairs and jump. It is my understanding that in a 727 one would not feel any "bank" .

What do you other pilots have to say on the subject of feeling a bank in a 727.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

Jo

The "feeling" of a bank has nothing to do with the kind of plane you are riding in. It is determined by physics. At a given speed and turn and roll rates, a 20 degree bank in a 727 feels the same as in a Lear Jet 24 making the same maneuver.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

He got $2000 not to talk, and he's already blabbing to reporters too much.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/topstories/2009-10-23-1742740355_x.htm

Ckret was right. You can't keep a conspiracy tight for long.

from the above:

MINNEAPOLIS — The first officer of the Northwest Airlines jet that missed its destination by 150 miles says there was no fight in the cockpit, neither he nor the captain had fallen asleep, and passengers were never in any danger.

But in an interview with The Associated Press two days after he and a colleague blew past their destination as air traffic controlled tried frantically to reach them, pilot Richard Cole would not say just what it was that led to them to forget to land Flight 188.

"It was not a serious event, from a safety issue," Cole said in an interview in front of his Salem, Ore., home. "I would tell you more, but I've already told you way too much."

[kallend 2,027]

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Then how about geese and ducks, which do show
up on radar?

I think it has to do with density differences between air and target. I have seen birds hundreds of times at distances exceeding 3 miles on 5 KW boat X band radars. Furnuno sells a so called BIRD RADAR (S band) that are used by tuna boats to spot bird flocks at distances of over 20 miles.

I spoke with a bird researcher in Hawaii who was using Furuno radar to track bird movements. He said that he regularly got returns from insect swarms at distances of several miles when the air was calm. He figured it out by observing and corellating close range echos visually with evening insect swarms.

Most people would think a Pelican to be an ideal stealth aircraft, but they have a very big RCS and show up great on simple low power (2-5KW) boat radars.

377

In answer to Georgers question - I think that if investigated you'd find that birds wings are rather "flat". You need to look at the dimensions in terms of a wavelength of the radar in use (higher frequency shorter wavelength). As 377 said density also matters - but I am not quite in my domain as the only real radar work I have done is for GPR.

Not density per se, but differences in dielectric constant at the relevant frequency for non-conductors.

/... Materials can be classified according to their permittivity and conductivity, s (sigma). Materials with a large amount of loss inhibit the propagation of electromagnetic waves. In this case, generally when s/(OE) >> 1, we consider the material to be a good conductor. Dielectrics are associated with lossless or low-loss materials, where s/(OE) << 1. Those that do not fall under either limit are considered to be general media. A perfect dielectric is a material that has no conductivity, thus exhibiting only a displacement current. Therefore it stores and returns electrical energy as if it were an ideal capacitor ... /

Very good. Now, can you derive the formula for the reflection of an electromagnetic wave at the boundary between two dielectrics? How about with a 1/4 wave layer of an intermediate dielectric inserted in the interface?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[377 22]

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Ckret was right. You can't keep a conspiracy tight for long.

Take note. Snow has admitted that Ckret was right about something. Could Snow be mellowing with age? Or is it something else?

A now deceased old time commercial pilot friend told me that during his more than 24,000 hours aloft he witnessed many incidents in which all three cockpit crew members were dozing. He'd wake up and notice that his co pilot and FE were asleep. It happened primarily on trans Pacific cargo flights on slow propliners. Their only ground contact was HF radio which had sporadic propagation. No huge deal if they missed one or two checkpoint calls. The autopilot did it's job and nothing bad happened.

377

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

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Very good. Now, can you derive the formula for the reflection of an electromagnetic wave at the boundary between two dielectrics? How about with a 1/4 wave layer of an intermediate dielectric inserted in the interface?

I'll bite. Jaumann absorber?

I think I remember you from the Schornsteinfeger project?
http://www.cdvandt.org/CIOS%20XXVI-24.pdf

What do you think about this two layer approach?
http://www.infomesr.org/OJEEE-V1N1_files/W09-0001.pdf

[snowmman 3]

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A now deceased old time commercial pilot friend told me that during his more than 24,000 hours aloft he witnessed many incidents in which all three cockpit crew members were dozing. He'd wake up and notice that his co pilot and FE were asleep. It happened primarily on trans Pacific cargo flights on slow propliners. Their only ground contact was HF radio which had sporadic propagation. No huge deal if they missed one or two checkpoint calls. The autopilot did it's job and nothing bad happened.

377

It's interesting they had the looping 30 minute-only cockpit recorder, and conveniently they were back in contact for the last 30 minutes till landing, so no voice recording of the dead time.

With today's technology, it's possible to do full video coverage of the entire plane for the entire flight. I saw a UK company that's providing cockpit visual from video cams installed thruout the plane. I'd like that for security if I was a pilot...why rely on the intermediate descriptions from a stew?

BUT: imagine the uproar if company officials could review the video of your performance during the entire flight?

Cops already have to deal with this with dashboard cams on their traffic stops (and it's been an eye-opener right?)

Full vid coverage of cockpit...actually instantaneous live streaming to the ground, is inevitable.

Why bother with talking to the pilot, when you can flip a switch and just look and listen yourself (from the ground)

Wait till the unions hear about that!

(edit) on the plus side, it'd be nice to look in the cockpit before you shoot them down.

[Orange1 0]

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MINNEAPOLIS — The first officer of the Northwest Airlines jet that missed its destination by 150 miles ...."

Northwest, huh? It can't just be a coincidence that this happened while we were discussing Cooper

Kallend, nice to see you popping in here. To all who don't know, Kallend is the guy who did the freefall simulator. You want to know physics questions about exit, freefall etc, he da man.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[skyjack71 0]

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Jo

The "feeling" of a bank has nothing to do with the kind of plane you are riding in. It is determined by physics. At a given speed and turn and roll rates, a 20 degree bank in a 727 feels the same as in a Lear Jet 24 making the same maneuver.

377

So my guy could be right!

Are there any other pilots out there who have flown aircraft such as the 727 or larger. How much or would the 727 even bank as it made that slight turn?

I have had others tell me he didn't need to wait for anything such a bank or turn. It was stated Cooper knew from the speed and by counting the minutes down - he knew when to jump to his target.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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mark,

Actually he was moving faster than that, closer to 3 miles a minute.

Your point is well taken, but, this was no precision DZ landing (or whatever you guys call it).

The significance of the landing strip (not really an airport) is: The terrain is flat and level with minimum obstructions. That’s all I am inferring. In 1971 it was not anything like the terrain the FBI was pushing off on the situation when they insisted he jumped near Ariel. It was mostly small farms and open pasture.

A standard rate turn of 27 degrees would take about 10 sec. So exactly when he made the determination that the second turn was in progress is a moot point.

I won’t (actually I can’t) address the pre-jump aspects of his exit. You are right every 20 seconds past the decision to jump now is 1 mile further away. But, I do know it was: Fly Straight, turn left, fly straight, turn right, jump. If the pilot started the turn 1 mile away, and it took him 10 seconds to exit, he was within 0.5 miles of the VOR. You can fill in the other scenarios; he’s got a few minutes until he reached a populated area or the river.

The post-jump aspects were discussed in depth in the old thread. He might have landed 5 miles away from the jump point.

The only point I am trying to make is: I want to refute the FBI’s (Ckret’s) assertion that "Cooper had little idea where he was when he jumped".

Everything else is just speculation and I like to speculate as much as everyone. Like this; “At 10,000 MSL, with the aft stairs down, and if he was halfway down the stairs, he could see the lights of Merwin Dam”. That’s just speculation. But, when I say; “he knew that V-23 was the only viable airway (based on his demands), and he knew when the plane passed the MALAY Fix and the BTG VOR”, then that’s speculation of a different order.

I’ll tell you one thing; I’d give just about anything to test my speculation.

I do not understand why my computer is opening on specific posts made by Sluggo. Is this all co-incidence? I swear I am not looking for these post. I come in exactly as I have in the past and usually that was to the last post read. I have NOT change my site settings.

Does anyone know how Sluggo is doing health wise? Outside of "weird" - will someone explain how I can get my settings to open again on last post read.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[JerryThomas 0]

Geoger .Thank's ,The number was the same. Have you contacted Richard yet. I have tried to contact Larry. was told to check with him next week. Call me Monday afternoon, I will fill you in on the rest of the Info you Requested. Jerry

[georger 244]

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Geoger .Thank's ,The number was the same. Have you contacted Richard yet. I have tried to contact Larry. was told to check with him next week. Call me Monday afternoon, I will fill you in on the rest of the Info you Requested. Jerry

you have mail -

I wish you would check your own without being
reminded.

As I said earlier, I am leaving for Sedona next
week. Maybe we can talk in the Spring. Have a
good winter. Adios. Good luck with your diatom
quest. Im sorry you have chosen NOT to take
the experts advice but I have grown used to this.
You are your own man and know more/better
than the rest of us. Take care.

Georger

[skyjack71 0]

Quoted from Sluggo:

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I have been trying (unsuccessfully) to sort out a discrepancy between two map images that came from the FBI. Both were produced in late 1971 or early 1980. Low-res versions have been posted on this website. The file names used when posted or at least when I put them on my computer were:
FBI Calculated Landing Zone - is the monochrome topographic map with all the straight lines and letters representing points. For convenience sake we will call it the Lake Merwin Map.
Flight Path 2 – This is color map image of a VFR aviation chart (I assume a Seattle Sectional). It is an enlargement of the last few inches of the large strip on the FBI website. The area covered is pretty large and there is no scale (showing) so it is hard to estimate distances. For convenience sake we will call it the Portland Chart.

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Both maps are from 1971 or 1972. I believe the Lake Merwin Map was used for the January 1972 search for Cooper’s remains. I have no idea what the Portland Chart was used for, but, this map has is some hand-written tic-marks showing 2005 PST and 2010 PST as major marks along the flight path and 2008 and 2009 as minor marks with arrows pointing about 5 – 10 miles east of the flight path line. The 2010 tic-mark is just WSW of the Merwin Dam. Obviously, in 1971–1972 the assumption was that Cooper jumped near the Merwin Dam at 2010.

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On Jan 22, 2008, Larry Carr (of the FBI) stated in post # 1286 (this board): “The crew referenced a call to Cooper at 8:05 PM when making a statement about the pressure change, stating the pressure bump occurred 5 to 10 minutes after this. They further stated that when they felt the pressure change they were not yet to Portland but definitely in the suburbs”. [Emphasis Mine]

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On Jan 27, 2008, Mr. Carr stated in post #1454: “This area had to be, according to the flight crew, in the areas north of Vancouver between the 8:11 - 8:15 time frame." [Emphasis Mine]

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So, I have modified Fact #8 to read:

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8. At the time of the hijacking and subsequent search, it was assumed he jumped from the plane at or near the Merwin Dam (2011 PST (based on a reported “pressure bump”). In 2008, the FBI extended the calculation to 2013, 2014, or 2015, which would put the jump somewhere near Orchard, WA. Note: Orchard is 6 miles SE of the BTG VOR. [Based on Flight Tracking Strip (Radar based) supplied by the FBI and posts on DZ.com forum].

This is getting back to basics because of the map that I was viewing upside down when I found my "hill". Now there is another map being sent to me - someone want me to SEE.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In 1971 Duane Weber was told that he had a kidney disease. His mother had died on the rudimentary machines of the 50's. Little was know about kidney disease in 1971 - they would later find (yrs. later) the form of kidney disease Weber had advanced in stages and that it would be yrs before he would face the kidney machine.

The Drs of 1971 used scare tactics and lumped it all together in 1971 making the prognosis look very grim and not too far away. In what state of mind would do you think Weber was in after the diagnosis.

At that time in 1971 he was a strong swimmer and participated in very physical activites. He was also a heavy drinker and smoker in 1971. He was preparing for the worse and expected the worse. Put yourself in his place with the technology and knowledge of the disease in 1971.

How does one
exist if you can't work (welfare)? How long do I have?


From all appearances when I met and married Duane Weber in the late 1970's he was a healthy man - but he drank and smoked too much. He took medication for high blood pressure. He was strong as an ox up until 1987 and then he hit the final stages like a sinking ship. He continued to amazed the Doctors as his health slowly declined. I threw the salt away and maintained the same diet he was required to follow. He did NOT start dialysis until 1990. His overall physical condition was such that he was offered a kidney which he turned down - telling me he had lived a full life and that a young person should have that kidney and a chance for a normal life.

In 1988 and 1989 he was still a very strong swimmer. The Gulf of Mexico has some very bad currents and many lives are lost every yr in this area because of this.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Posted by Jerry:

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Geoger .Thank's ,The number was the same. Have you contacted Richard yet. I have tried to contact Larry. was told to check with him next week. Call me Monday afternoon, I will fill you in on the rest of the Info you Requested. Jerry

If Jerry is talking about Larry Carr - GOOD LUCK. They aren't interested in Cooper. Seems as though this thread has become Jerry's personal message board.
Why can't those things be addressed in regular email communications outside of the thread? Who is RICHARD? Perhaps I have not been reading the posts.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

Jo,

Even if Duane were a good swimmer I'd give him a 99% chance of drowning if he landed in deep water that night.
There were no Capewell canopy releases on the Navy bail out rig Cooper jumped. To rid yourself of the canopy you'd have to get completely out if the harness which is really hard to do at night in water with loads on the harness webbing.

I think Jerry will agree that even a very fit jumper would have a hard time under those circumstances. Guru and other jumpers, your thoughts?I say a river landing was almost certainly fatal if in deep water more than a few feet from shore.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

I'm still more interested in any murders Duane might have been involved in.

I think they'll sell better. If there's a JFK/MLK connection then surely we should investigate other murders? He was a crack shot with a gun, glasses or not. He wasn't a hunter. Why did he shoot so much? Well, obviously, to shoot people.

Did Duane ever discuss bombs? detonators? Did he ever discuss political stuff? You mentioned Cuba. Did he ever say he wanted to blow someone up?

I still think it's likely he was involved with prostitutes. It sounds like there was no drug involvement: sales or use.

(edit) What was his preference when it came to porn?

[Orange1 0]

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I'm still more interested in any murders Duane might have been involved in.

I think they'll sell better. If there's a JFK/MLK connection then surely we should investigate other murders? He was a crack shot with a gun, glasses or not. He wasn't a hunter. Why did he shoot so much? Well, obviously, to shoot people.

Actually, that's a very good point. Not that they'll "sell better" but that they are more important in terms of the crimes (murder has no statute of limitations, right?) Come to think of it, a mere hijacking with no violence seems rather out of character with all this other stuff?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[skyjack71 0]

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Jo,

Even if Duane were a good swimmer I'd give him a 99% chance of drowning if he landed in deep water that night.
There were no Capewell canopy releases on the Navy bail out rig Cooper jumped. To rid yourself of the canopy you'd have to get completely out if the harness which is really hard to do at night in water with loads on the harness webbing.

I think Jerry will agree that even a very fit jumper would have a hard time under those circumstances. Guru and other jumpers, your thoughts?I say a river landing was almost certainly fatal if in deep water more than a few feet from shore.

377

but, to give you guys an idea of his physical condition as late as 1989.
I promise you Cooper did not land in the water.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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I'm still more interested in any murders Duane might have been involved in.

I never said Duane was involved in a murder - only that he may have been involved with some unscruplous character and used as an errand boy after the fact. That is based on the strange trip to Memphis around 1982 and the appearance of a Remington rife with scope removed in our home at a later date when we traded from a sedan to a station wagon.

====================

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He was a crack shot with a gun, glasses or not. He wasn't a hunter. Why did he shoot so much? Well, obviously, to shoot people.

I have no idea - I witnessed this ability with my own eyes. Duane was not a killer, but he was a crack shot. Why or how? I don't know. Maybe for the covert CIA thing I suspect he was involved in.

================

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Did Duane ever discuss bombs? detonators? Did he ever discuss political stuff? You mentioned Cuba. Did he ever say he wanted to blow someone up?

Duane was very interested in politics - would someone tell me how a convicted felon voted - he did.

He did mention the Bay of Pigs and Cuba. I definitely got the opinion he was involved. Frankly until I had to do all of this research regarding things Duane said and discussed over the yr - this dumb blonde really didn't know what the Bay of Pigs was and its involvement.

====================

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I still think it's likely he was involved with prostitutes. It sounds like there was no drug involvement: sales or use.

I do NOT think he was involved with prostitutes and he NEVER mentioned prostitues. During those days there was too much FREE sex for anyone to have to pay for it.

=======================

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What was his preference when it came to porn?

If he had an interest in porn - I have NO knowledge of it. I also consider this unappropriate in subject.....and something that has no bearing on whether he was Cooper or not.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

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I promise you Cooper did not land in the water.

and I promise you that he might have.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

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I do NOT think he was involved with prostitutes and he NEVER mentioned prostitues. During those days there was too much FREE sex for anyone to have to pay for it.

You can't have it both ways Jo. The CIA was all about prostitutes and whatever else it took to "get the job done." If Duane was a Bay of Pigs and political assassination spook or junior spook he had plenty of professional contact with prostitutes and maybe some off the clock contact as well. The fact that he never mentioned prostitutes to you just
shows he cared about your feelings.

In MK Ultra the CIA made extensive use of prostitutes. Bruce has all the details.

Snowmman industries has taken away the CIA supply contract from Heidi Fleiss. Her recent legal problems are not a coincidence.

The pen cam flash memories from Heidi's "employees" have all been dowloaded, catalogued and discreetly emailed to certain key government officials. They have assured Snowmman through replies to blind email boxes that SI needn't worry about export control laws, tax audits or parking tickets in DC.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[nigel99 474]

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I promise you Cooper did not land in the water.

and I promise you that he might have.

377

You see those are the comments (Jo's) that really piss me off. We go from a mumbled death bed confession to a KNOWN fact that he didn't land in water. Even on the remotest chance that Duane was cooper - I really doubt that he said "I paid Tina $100 for a quickie and landed in a duck pond, got a ride back from the landing spot in a UFO after blowing ckret to ensure that the FBI would forever cover my tracks"

Actually on second thoughts maybe he did say that

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[snowmman 3]

remember that train engineer who crashed the train, and right before he missed the emergency signal, he was texting to some kids who were train freaks.

I thought it was really funny that it turned out the pilots that missed the airport, were playing with their laptops. Both of them.

Now they were either playing flight simulator, world of warcraft, updating their facebook, sending tweets or looking at porn.

When I read they tried to text message them on their cell phones and got no response...I was thinking "how long before an airplane crash like the train crash..where the pilot is texting"...

and then it turns out they were playing with their laptops.

It's against the law in a number of places to text while driving your car. It's funny that we need a law apparently, that you're not allowed to play with text messages or laptops while driving an airplane or train or maybe a nuclear power plant.

I think they should get rid of the sterile cockpit and let the pilots flirt with the stewardesses all the time again. I think that was safer. Put a couple guys behind closed doors, and it's only a couple minutes before they're surfing the web looking for porn.