DB Cooper

[snowmman 3]

There's this kids book I posted about before that mentions Duane Weber
here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=No6A1mRJv8IC&pg=PT28&dq=%22duane+weber%22#v=onepage&q=%22duane%20weber%22&f=false

Saw a kid in the library reading it. His mom was standing nearby and I pointed out the Weber reference, and explained how Weber was apparently a perv, heavily involved in porn, drugs, and prostitutes. Likely a serial murderer. Definitely a terrorist. And he got away with all of it. No one knows how many bodies he buried.

She asked me where I heard that, and I said I read it on a web forum.

She took the book out of the kid's hands and went to the librarian. I don't think the book got reshelved.

It's apparently just a unsubstantiated rumor that he was a perv, but I'm looking into it.

[skyjack71 0]

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I promise you Cooper did not land in the water.

and I promise you that he might have.

377

You see those are the comments (Jo's) that really piss me off. We go from a mumbled death bed confession to a KNOWN fact that he didn't land in water. (xxxx'x out due to vulgarities) forever cover my tracks"

Actually on second thoughts maybe he did say that

I WILL assure you that DUANE did NOT MUMBLE a death bed confession. It was very matter of fact and very clear and very loud - it was 11 days before he died. He was still strong, but he could tolerate NO MORE diaylsis - he was tired of it. It was his choice to cease treatment.

I state he DID NOT land in Water because of the area he took me to and the things he said. I based the statement on that and not other suggestion Cooper MIGHT have landed in Water.

Why does that Piss you off? The fact that I DO NOT accept what others say had to have happened! I believe Duane was Cooper and somehow with the help of GOD if there is one I will prove it or provide so damn many co-incidences that they just cannot be ignored.

I am getting papers and maps ready to go off to someone who is helping me - due to guest and health for the last few days I did not get them in the mail as I had promised. When these documents are in hand some serious searching will be done.

With the Boeing thing and Duane being cheated out of his inheritance ( bother who worked with Boeing and Uncle who was instrumental in Boeing contracts), should give someone an inkling of motive. Now what are you going to do when we find who owned that property I consistently begs someone to do for me since I am not in WA.

What will you say if these people who owned the property did indeed have a son near Duane's age and who was a jumper? What if Duane went to war for that son?
What if that son became a minister or evanglists? What if the man in Salt Lake is connected to all of this? What if the picture of the girl is Tina and that was her book? A lot of what if's, but they at least are more real then other what if's regarding who Cooper was and how he obtained the knowledge to do this crime.

They shoot DEAD horses don't they?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Just a few lines from an old post by Saftecrack.

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what type of behaviors and thoughts would you attribute to Cooper in the years following the crime?

what would have gone through Cooper's mind in the days, weeks, or months following Ingram's find.

If Cooper lived, then he would have heard the news that some of the ransom would have been found. This case had not really made the news until that point.

If Cooper lived, he would have paid close attention to the news reports regarding the recovered money.

If Cooper lived and he lived thousands of miles away from the NW, the Ingram find would have been the first media attention thrown at this case since 1971.

This is significant because the AP reported as part of this story something that Cooper probably didn't know. He had been federally indicted to circumvent the statute of limitations.

If Cooper lived, Ingram's find would have immediately informed him that he was forever on the hook for the Cooper crime, instead of the five years a person might normally think.

What would go through Cooper's mind in the days, weeks, and months following Ingram's find?

Suppose Cooper just found out that he'll never make it off of the wanted list for his 1971 extracurricular activities, do you think he'd just go about business as usual? Do you think he'd panic? Do you think he'd change his appearance?

When the TV special was advertised to be on a weekday soon after that - Duane Weber made sure I - his wife did not see that special and went to great extents to arrange for us go with another couple on a weekday night to go to a piano bar. I was NOT very happy about that and apologized for not being good company because I really did not want to be there because I had wanted to see that TV program. Duane knew I wanted to SEE it. He knew he had say too much on that trip just 5 months prior..and he did NOT know what they would show on the program.

He got very drunk that night - and it may well have been the night he got the DUI. Something one of you sharpies could check out.

Then within another week or two he leaves and goes to Al. to look for work. A man leaves a position that was paying good, his wife and a step-daughter in her Senior yr...I didn't understand this - not until I found out who Dan Cooper was in 1996.

When I look back on it, I wonder what we were living off of for the next few months. I wasn't making much money. He had some things in the "mill" - business written that was still in underwriting, but that surely didn't finance his trip to Mobile, pay the rent on an apt and a house. There was a prom and the usual senior expenses.,,but I do not remember us having any problems with money.

Someone out there start using your abililties to research the things I have told you - I don't just make these things up.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[nigel99 476]

Sorry Jo didn't mean for my language to offend you.

To be frank the reason that it irritates me is that you have no proof that Duane was Cooper, I know that you believe it to be 100% true but as I say no proof.

So for you to leap to massive assumptions - so that even on the slim chance of it being Duane you have even the faintest idea of what occurred that night is ludicrous. By your own admission he did not give you a detailed account of that night so you can't possibly "promise" that cooper did not land in the water.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[377 22]

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know what Duane Weber did as soon as the find hit the newpapers in Ft. Collins, Colorado. He typed and dated his resignation the next day .

Jo,

Nobody suspected Duane was Cooper at the time that show aired. From what I know of its general content, nothing in that TV show or any stories about the money find would have alerted his co-workers to suspect that Duane was Cooper. Why resign? Why leave? Why go through a new pre hire reference and background check when you already have a good job?

Abruptly resigning would only draw attention to Duane and seem odd. Staying in place sounds like it would have been the smartest move if Duane were indeed Dan Cooper.

You see Duane's resignation and abrupt departure as indicators that he was Cooper. I just dont see it your way at all.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

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With the Boeing thing and Duane being cheated out of his inheritance ( bother who worked with Boeing and Uncle who was instrumental in Boeing contracts), should give someone an inkling of motive.

How did Norjack hurt Boeing or hurt anyone who allegedly cheated Duane out of his inheritance?

Was the motive payback/revenge or just money?

Was Duane really CHEATED out of his inheritance and if so, how and by who?

Is it possible that the deceased person decided before death that Duane was not a worthy recipient of the estate assets and just amended the will accordingly? That isnt cheating.

Even if Duane had some tenuous Boeing tech connections and an inheritance grudge that is hardly even circumstantial proof that he was Cooper.

If Duane went to war in place of another and trained as a paratrooper, that would certainly be of interest, but I have seen not a scintella of proof that this ever happened.

Jo, you are 100% sure Duane was Cooper and spin every ambiguous piece of evidence in a way to make it support your beliefs. There is a ton of evidence that casts doubt on your theory but you choose to see only what supports it.

Show us one piece of hard evidence that unequivocally supports your theory, just one. A crisp undamaged Cooper twenty would definitely do the job. So would proof that the child photo was Tina's and was given to Cooper during the hijack. None of that will be forthcoming, we can bank on that. We will see an endless list of ambiguous coincidences, and even those will have been carefully selected.

I don't think Duane had the physical capability to do Norjack in 1971 or the knowledge or experience to pull it off successfully. I believe you are sincere in your beliefs and your recounting of Duane's confession, but I dont think Duane really was Cooper. It puzzles me why he told you he was, but he was a complicated guy and must have had his reasons.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Jo wrote:

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Suppose Cooper just found out that he'll never make it off of the wanted list for his 1971 extracurricular activities, do you think he'd just go about business as usual?

Yes, I do. Especially if he looked like Duane Weber who bore very little resemblance to the FBI sketches and physical description that were republished after the Ingram money find.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Nobody suspected Duane was Cooper at the time that show aired. From what I know of its general content, nothing in that TV show or any stories about the money find would have alerted his co-workers to suspect that Duane was Cooper. Why resign? Why leave? Why go through a new pre hire reference and background check when you already have a good job?

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Duane was afraid of what they might show on the TV program - he was afraid I would see something that would cause me to put 2 and 2 together and get 4. He knew if I did - he would spend the rest of his life in prison. He probably put distance between us for 2 reason - to get back to the South where he was not so visible and maybe he was protecting me just encase the find created an interest that led to someone who could identify him.

There is NO WAY he could predict what the TV show might show. With the renewed interest and his very public visibility in the insurance field in CO and WY, what he did was the right thing. He was well aware from his experience in 1971 that the South did not show a lot of interest in Cooper...with the news papers and TV.
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Abruptly resigning would only draw attention to Duane and seem odd. Staying in place sounds like it would have been the smartest move if Duane were indeed Dan Cooper.

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I will put it this way - DUANE WEBER was on the run - visibility such as he had in CO was not a good thing.
=====================

You see Duane's resignation and abrupt departure as indicators that he was Cooper. I just dont see it your way at all.

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You were not married to him and did not know him personally. He would not run from the best job he had ever had - unless he felt he was in jeopardy of going back to prison. He had gotten a good taste of success and found he could actually make it without stealing. We were a good sales team - he liked his freedom and making a decent income without stealing. He had not come this far to make the stupid mistake of staying to close to the crime area.

He was also VERY afraid I would put what he told and showed me in WA together with whatever they might show on the program or in other media forms. Why in the hell do you think I never got to read that newpaper with the annoucement of the money find. He took it with him when he left the house - I never got to read the article.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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Jo wrote:

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Suppose Cooper just found out that he'll never make it off of the wanted list for his 1971 extracurricular activities, do you think he'd just go about business as usual?

Yes, I do. Especially if he looked like Duane Weber who bore very little resemblance to the FBI sketches and physical description that were republished after the Ingram money find.

377

There is NO WAY Weber could have know what they would have on that program or how MUCH I would put together. he took no chances AND it is a good thing he did. If I had seen the sketches I have (the Ben Gazzara latin look ones) - and with the knowledge of what he told me and showed me on that tirp to WA. I WOULD HAVE PUT IT TOGETHER - IT HAD ONLY BEEN A LITTLE OVER 5 MONTHS.

Attaching the pics I am referring to. There is another I have that has not been made public, but it also has not been scanned - it is how he looked when I met him in 1977...made with a little cheap camera and of course his hair had a lot of gray without the dye - plus he had gained weight.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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This is an extremely high profile case that has baffled the FBI for over 35 years. Perhaps the most famous unsolved case ever.

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What real benefit would there be to finally finding answers? None really other than finally knowing the answers. Sometimes that is enough.

I don't want to die without knowing the truth - because I spent 17 yrs with this man and another 14 yrs trying to put the pieces together he provided me and looking for those items I held in my hands - hoping and praying that someplace - somewhere they will turn up.

That someone bought that Book that wasn't a book and that they remember what was in the book when they bought it.

That the collector of mililtary memorabilia who bought the chute parts from me will read about my plight and that he too is still alive and will remember buying those pieces from a woman in Pace, Fl who had NO idea why her husband would have harness from a parachute. He explained to me what it was. This man was about 10 yrs younger than Duane and he did not live in the area - but, came down every winter. This would have been in the spring of 1995 or maybe late fall. I had 2 garage sales to get rid of all the stuff we had in the garage.

Maybe his widow found the ticket in her husband's stuff and thinks her husband was Cooper.

The shop was robbed 3 times in the early part of 1990 - when the stub and the bank bag where held in my hands...what if any significance this has I know not, but I want it acknowledged and stated for the record - just encase something shows up in the future about these items.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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How did Norjack hurt Boeing or hurt anyone who allegedly cheated Duane out of his inheritance?

A man who is in his 40's is told he has polycistic kidney disease and considering the alternatives available in 1971 - Duane was actually out of control emotionally. Both the brother and the uncle had Boeing connections - I cannot even fathom what must have been going thru his mind. He wanted and needed money because he had been led to believe his life would be very short and he would have to endure the archaic kidney machines his mother had suffered in the 1950's. Boeing was a common denominator and made a deep impression on his life - remember that Duane did want to be a pilot, but did not pass muster. He wanted to defend his country but did not pass muster. He never seemed to do anything right except get in trouble and spent most of his adult yrs in prison because of his bad judgement.

You are asking me to analyze his reasoning - all I can do is say what I think Duane would have done and what justifications he might have made per the man I knew and what I have learned about his marriages, his family and his life (prisons, aka's, constantly on the move, his immoral practices and the things I was told by prior wives and family members and friends). The military background - this goes on and on and I still learn things I didn't know before - such as the Uncle and yet another Boeing connection.

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Was Duane really CHEATED out of his inheritance and if so, how and by who. Is it possible that the deceased person decided before death that Duane was not a worthy recipient of the estate assets and just amended the will accordingly? That isnt cheating.

This is what needs to be researched- to find the probate of both wills. Even if Duane was written out of the wills due to his prison record (remember prison was reason to disown your relative in the 40's and 50's) Duane may have blamed the administrator or felt his parents where influenced by his older brother and sister. Duane made the statement to me about his brother cheating him out of his inheritance and I knew the last time they saw each other was after his mother died in 1958 and they never saw each other again.

I arranged a contact while Duane was in the Hospital dying through the sister. The brother and his wife sent pictures and a nice letter and the two brothers spoke on the phone from the hospital for the first time in 38 yrs, It was not a long conversation.

What ever or where ever Duane went in 1990 it was to retrieve something. The tiny box with a baby pearl buckle and buttons, a tie clasp with his fathers initials and one LONE picture - I do not know what else he retrived on a mysterious 2 day trip in 1990 after he went on the machine except this is the same time the stub and bank bag appeared along with his friend claiming Duane was counting out a large amount of money in the shop when he popped in on him shortly thereafter.

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Even if Duane had some tenuous Boeing tech connections and an inheritance grudge that is hardly even circumstantial proof that he was Cooper.

What did I say earlier - no matter what I produce it will just be considered more co-incidences - there has to be a point when these co-incidences become the tie breaker that will give cause for the FBI to look deeper than we have been able to go. The whole point of the person helping me was feeling that I have taken things out of perspective and made connections where none were, but the more everyone finds the more it becomes even more likely to others, Duane was Cooper.

===================

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If Duane went to war in place of another and trained as a paratrooper, that would certainly be of interest, but I have seen not a scintella of proof that this ever happened.

Working on that one and working on it hard.....but it is not for discussion in the forum at this time.

==============

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Jo, you are 100% sure Duane was Cooper and spin every ambiguous piece of evidence in a way to make it support your beliefs. There is a ton of evidence that casts doubt on your theory but you choose to see only what supports it.

I am more aware of this than anyone on this earth. This is why so many others have come to my aid at this time. Sure I look for what supports what I believe when others are looking to cast doubts on the claims I make. There is just one problem with that right now - the more that is found the more it seems to enforce what I believe and what my heart knows. I have not presented my case well and I have no training in these kind of things. I have been at the mercy of the media, the forum and the FBI and others.

I asked you guys a long time ago to tell me if there was ever a time since the Highjacking in 1971 that souveniers where printed up - only that will explain away what I held in my own hands and saw with my own eyes. There was never a response to that post.

How will you guys and the FBI feel if this endeavor for the truth and after 14 yrs, individuals who are professionals in their field end up providing more circumstancial evidence of the things I have been saying all of these yrs? The FBI sure won't be very happy if that happens.

I also have to stand accountable if they prove Duane could not have been Cooper. Because all I have ever wanted is the truth - and because I firmly believe that they cannot find anything that will prove conclusively that Duane was not Cooper - that is a chance I am willing take. My convictions are deep and driven even deeper by the actions or more appropriately non-actions of 3 active FBI agents is cause enough.

In the last 6 days - the unpreparedness of individuals who collect paychecks and supposedly know their jobs is the best example of HOW I feel about the investigation of Duane.
1.Was given the wrong medication at the drug store.
2. Retriving medical information the girl didn't listen to the information I provided her - therefore she didn't retrive the required information.
3. A Doctors office telling me that they could only do certain procedures with each appointment because Medicare will only pay for one procedure per visit.. I called Medicare and this is NOT true. The system gets raped by some medical professionals everyday.

If the FBI has conclusive evidence that Duane was NOT Cooper - (such as Jerry Thomas attempted to claim - that Duane was in jail - note he also claimed that Duane was with family - so which was it?) they need to be held accountable for the yrs I spent trying to prove Duane was Cooper. It stands to reason if the FBI had such information they would have revealed this to the public and not to Jerry Thomas.

===============

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Show us one piece of hard evidence that unequivocally supports your theory, just one. A crisp undamaged Cooper twenty would definitely do the job. So would proof that the child photo was Tina's and was given to Cooper during the hijack. None of that will be forthcoming, we can bank on that. We will see an endless list of ambiguous coincidences, and even those will have been carefully selected.

The twenty I can't produce but the Child photo and the book I can present if someone can get me in front of Tina. I will present that along with a tape of his voice and pictures she has never seen. I was NOT the one who thought the child was Tina - so don't blame me for that one. You guys have done your own share of ambiguous guesses. I do not carefully select anything - haven't you figured me out by now. I say what I am thinking - with no filters. Yes, I have learned to use some filters recently because I have to.

What the hell happened to that Twenty with Dan Cooper written on it in red ink? It was folded over several time so he could put it in the Bank we called Symba. Now I am playing with you! Now I am teasing or am I.

Maybe it is true and maybe I spent it - there really was a twenty in that bank and I really did spend it. Truth or Fiction?

Tell me something - did not the thread engage in speculation about several suspects? All of that speculation was ambiguous was it not? What proof has been stated that would prove Duane was not Cooper outside of some contaminated DNA items they cannot even prove Cooper had on. Per Himmelsbach the tie was found on the seat next to where Cooper was sitting and they did not know if it was the tie Cooper was wearing. The current FBI has never denied this nor is it mentioned in the FIOA. Therefore the FBI is being ambiguous. Agent Carr avoided my post regarding this...no one seemed to notice this...except me.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

oh dear, we are getting all sidetracked again. i think got as far as not watching a tv show being 'proof' of something sinister before rolling my eyes and skipping posts.

here's some more interesting stuff, which may or may not have a link to cooper but at least we know it is stuff which REALLY HAPPENED!!

A year in the life of an airborne in Vietnam:
http://home.att.net/~gkozdron/

The first combat jump into Vietnam:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~magro/173abn.html

The above and lots more links on the 173rd airborne from http://www.sfahq.com/Airborne/173rd_Airborne_Brigrade/index.html

Main page: Paratroopers of the 1950s
http://home.hiwaay.net/~magro/paraindex.html - lots of interesting looking links here - have skimmed a couple

enjoy...(and whoever reads them, let us know if you find anything that sounds Cooper-esque)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

Question.
There's been this underlying theme that good jump boots help prevent injury when landing rounds.

I've been thinking about that, and am not sure I agree.
I think the things that caused injuries with rounds, were caused by other factors, that boots didn't really play into?

-I'd agree that soles are important to avoid penetration injuries.
-But I don't agree that any sole construction is important in terms of reducing shock loading enough to prevent injury.
-I'd agree, somewhat, that the high tops have an intent of preventing ankle sprains, but I'm wondering if the reality was that they didn't help much.

In short, I'd like to see more data.

I'm wondering if landing a round in sneakers has the same injury rate as landing with jump boots.

There's been a claim of higher injury rate with bad shoes. But no data presented to support that thesis?

[Orange1 0]

Snow, I've never jumped rounds but I can tell you my husband (who did) says they were clearly better at preventing ankle injury. (Even when he did paragliding he still wore boots, Cats, for the landings.) He's not here right now to ask - maybe some of the older jumpers can comment - i wonder if it was not somehow connected to doing PLFs all the time as well, where your feet and ankles take the first impact?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

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Snow, I've never jumped rounds but I can tell you my husband (who did) says they were clearly better at preventing ankle injury. (Even when he did paragliding he still wore boots, Cats, for the landings.) He's not here right now to ask - maybe some of the older jumpers can comment - i wonder if it was not somehow connected to doing PLFs all the time as well, where your feet and ankles take the first impact?

I'm thinking the physics doesn't support it.
Think of a body coming down at 20MPH or so..weighing 150-200 lbs.

The soles are only going to deflect so much. Maybe 1/8" on impact?

So it's a question of decelerating only slightly differently.

But think about it: It's primarily more important what you land on, if you're worried about deceleration over that distance.

grass, moss, forest debris, soft wet ground...vs concrete, pebbles etc.

That would be the primary issue.

There might be a traction issue? Hard to see why though.

Thinking about jumping off of things like 10' high or so, bruised heels can be common landing on hard ground.

In fact, thinking about the sprained ankle issue: increased sole traction can be bad. You don't want your foot to stop, while your body is moving.

[377 22]

Titre du document / Document title
Braced for impact : Reducing military paratroopers' ankle sprains using outside-the-boot braces
Auteur(s) / Author(s)
AMOROSO P. J. (1) ; RYAN J. B. (2) ; BICKLEY B. (3) ; LEITSCHUH P. (4) ; TAYLOR D. C. (5) ; JONES B. H. (6) ;
Affiliation(s) du ou des auteurs / Author(s) Affiliation(s)
(1) U.S. Army Research Institute of Environmental Medicine, Natick, Massachusetts, ETATS-UNIS
(2) William Clay Ford Center for Athletic Medicine, Detroit, Michigan, ETATS-UNIS
(3) Ireland Community Hospital, Fort Knox, Kentucky, ETATS-UNIS
(4) William Beaumont Army Medical Center, El Paso, Texas, ETATS-UNIS
(5) Keller Army Community Hospital, West Point, New York, ETATS-UNIS
(6) U.S. Army Center for Health Promotion and Preventive Medicine, Aberdeen Proving Ground, Maryland, ETATS-UNIS

Résumé / Abstract
Background: Ankle injuries account for 30 to 60% of all parachuting injuries. This study was designed to determine if outside-the-boot ankle braces could reduce ankle sprains during Army paratrooper training. Methods: The randomized trial involved 777 volunteers from the U.S. Army Airborne School, Fort Benning, Ga. Of this group, 745 completed all study requirements (369 brace-wearers and 376 non-brace-wearers). Each volunteer made five parachute jumps, for a total of 3,674 jumps. Results: The incidence of inversion ankle sprains was 1.9% in non-brace-wearers and 0.3% in brace-wearers (risk ratio, 6.9; p = 0.04). Other injuries appeared unaffected by the brace. Overall, 5.3% of the non-brace group and 4.6% of the brace group experienced at least one injury. The risk ratio for injured individuals was 1.2:1 (non-brace to brace groups; p = 0.65). Conclusion: Inversion ankle sprains during parachute training can be significantly reduced by using an outside-the-boot ankle brace, with no increase in risk for other injuries.
Revue / Journal Title
The Journal of trauma ISSN 0022-5282 CODEN JOTRA5
Source / Source
Congrès
Annual Meeting of the Eastern Association for the Surgery of Trauma No11, Sanibel, Florida , ETATS-UNIS (14/01/1998)
1998, vol. 45, no 3, pp. 429-445 (28 ref.), pp. 575-580
Langue / Language
Anglais

Editeur / Publisher
Lippincott Williams & Wilkins, Baltimore, MD, ETATS-UNIS (1961) (Revue)

Mots-clés anglais / English Keywords
Parachuting ; Military ; Prevention ; Sprain ; Ankle ; Technical equipment ; Orthosis ; Technique ; Treatment ; Human ; Lower limb ; Diseases of the osteoarticular system ; Trauma ; Orthopedic treatment ;
Mots-clés français / French Keywords
Parachutisme ; Militaire ; Prévention ; Entorse ; Cheville ; Matériel technique ; Orthèse ; Technique ; Traitement ; Homme ; Membre inférieur ; Système ostéoarticulaire pathologie ; Traumatisme ; Traitement orthopédique ;
Mots-clés espagnols / Spanish Keywords
Paracaidismo ; Militar ; Prevención ; Esguince ; Tobillo ; Equipo técnico ; Ortesis ; Técnica ; Tratamiento ; Hombre ; Miembro inferior ; Sistema osteoarticular patología ; Traumatismo ; Tratamiento ortopédico ;
Localisation / Location
INIST-CNRS, Cote INIST : 507, 35400007035729.0250


Nº notice refdoc (ud4) : 2404970

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Orange wrote;

Quote

maybe some of the older jumpers can comment

Ouch, just turned 60. I guess I qualify to opine here.

I wore combat boots jumping rounds until I could afford French Paraboots. I think the French boots helped a little in preventing ankle twists/sprains.

I have found that old Nike Air running shoes, before they reduced the spring force, were ideal for jumping. You could jump onto your heels from a few feet up and not feel any sharp impact. They were GREAT shock aborbers. Now they are squishier and bottom out too soon on a high impact jump. No, its not that I have put on weight. I have a pair of the older ones that I wear ONLY for jumping as the new ones suck. My old ones are just about shot so I'll have to use the inferior new ones soon.

Nice thing about ram air chutes is that if you fly conservative landings and flare properly, it almost doesnt matter what shoes you are wearing, as the vertical impact force is insignificant.

With my old porous C9 round, every single landing was brutally hard. It is a miracle I didnt break any bones. I bet I'd be an inch taller if I had been able to afford a ParaCommander when I started jumping.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Quote

here's some more interesting stuff, which may or may not have a link to cooper but at least we know it is stuff which REALLY HAPPENED!!

Ok, back to reality.

Here is some video of jumps from the Perris DC 9-21 jet jumpship. I jumped this beautiful plane in 2006 at WFFC.

Currently it is having FAA hassles over engine times. Normally overhaul limits are determined by engine operating hours. Calendar time is never an issue in airline service. Apparently after so many years, regardless of engine hours, a DC 9 engine is required to be overhauled, a VERY VERY expensive proposition. Someone with a grain of sanity ought to give them a waiver, but sanity and common sense in US Govt Admin agencies? Fat chance...

Enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG2sVLSippc&feature=player_embedded#

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

"The incidence of inversion ankle sprains was 1.9% in non-brace-wearers and 0.3% in brace-wearers (risk ratio, 6.9; p = 0.04). Other injuries appeared unaffected by the brace. Overall, 5.3% of the non-brace group and 4.6% of the brace group experienced at least one injury. "

Note that comparing the ankle issue (1.9%/0.3%) vs total injuries (5.3%/4.6%) seems to agree with my point.

Focusing on the boot issue is silly for assessing injury on landing.

You're going to argue that 1.9% vs 0.3% is important, and therefore identifies Cooper as a clod?

I think maybe the only shoe issue is "loss of shoe" vs "non-loss-of-shoe" for Cooper.

The idea of "jump boot" vs "non-jump-boot" I think is a myth, in terms of assessing experience.

[skyjack71 0]

Snowmman made this post a long time ago about the FOIA and now it seems the FBI has changed a lot of the text. Go read the current FIOA and read what was there originally. Why?

Quote

I've also been reading the recently released transcripts and have some questions. Starting with: did Cooper even ask for 4 chutes to start with? I don't think so. I don't think he asked for reserves.

page 1 of the transcript has this exchange
(when it starts with 305, that's communication from the plane)

305 PSGR ADV IS RIHAKING ENRTE TO EA
STEW HAS BEEN HANDED NOTE REQST 2HND THSD
AND KNAPSACK BY 5PM SEA THIS AFTNN
WANTS 2 BAK PAK PARACHUTES
WANTS MONEY IN NEGOTBL AMERICAN CURRNCY
DENOMINATION OF BILLS NOT IMPORATANT
HAS BOMB IN BRIEF CASE AND ILL USE IT IF
ANYTHING IS DONE TO BLOCK HIS REQUEST
ENRTE TO SEA

(note the ENRTE TO EA and ENRTE TO SEA) is "enroute to seattle"
ah. 2HND THSD is "two hundred thousand" abbreviation

Interesting Cooper asked for a knapsack (I guess they didn't give him one) so that was his plan for the money..not tying it around himself like he did...see he did have a good plan for carrying the money.

Okay the idea of chest packs seems to have been introduced by the team on the ground
I think...not Cooper.

page 2 of the transcripts
SEADD ARE IN CTC WITH LOCAL BANK AND
ARRANGING FOR THE MONEY ND WILL HAVE
THE TWO CHEST PACKS SOON ALREADY HAVE
THE TWO BACK PACKS

Maybe the ground team thought they were being smart by giving him chest plus back rigs. Or maybe they were just stalling for time.

So this whole thing about the training reserve may be bogus. Cooper might
have just tossed it.

(abbreviations are easy to decipher. These apparently were typed on the fly. .typist apparently used "XXX"
at the end of a word if he made an error..no backspace in those days! so ignore words ending in XXX in the transcripts)

Cooper specified they would fly with the "AFT STAIRS TO BE LWRD AFTER TKOFF"
and "AFT PSGR LOADING DOOR WILL BE OPEN" even before they took off after fueling

see page 10.

"305 R HAVEXXX AFT PSGR LOADING DOOR WILL BE OPEN AND WILL REMAIN IN THAT POSN AND AFT STAIRS TO BE LWRD AFTR TKOFF"

on page 10/11 (note the xxx's are I think the guy on the typewriter trying to correct mistakes...so ignore those)

"305 HAV NOXXX NEGOTD RLS OF 2 GIRLS LVG ANY MOMENT 3RD GIRL TO STAY ITH ACFT WANTS HER TO MANIPULATE STAIRS FOR HIM AFTR PLANE AIRBORNE HAVE TRIED TO TELL HIM INXXX UNAM OPRTE STAIRS TO LWRD AFTR TKOFF TRYING TO GET HIM TO LET US LWR STAIRS PARTLLY FOR TKOFF"

"MSP FLT OPNS DONT KNOW OF ANY WAY TO LOCK STAIRS IN INTMTDE POSN"

"305 R WIL TALK TO HIM AGAIN"


Here's another important note.
at 5:47 PM PST

"305 WE HAVE INSTRCTNS FROM THE INDVDL WANTS NR1 (?) GO TO MEXICO CITY 2 TO FLY WITH GEAR DOWN AND FLAPS AT 15 EGDEG AFTR UNDERWAY ALL LITHGHTS TO BE TURND OUT IN ACFT"


page 11 and 12 has notes about how they can't take off with the stairs down...(I don't think Cooper asked them to?)

but then note on page 12 they say they know the plane has been flown with the stairs lowered

"MSP FLT OPS HAVE NO CNTRL PROBLEM WHEN XTNDD MAY BE SUM SLITE PITCHUP BUT ERY CNTRLLBL PLANE HAS BEEN FLOWN THIS WAY HAVE LARGE BOXES OF 2 TO 3HND LBS THRU THE DOOR IN THIS CONFIG MUST BE DOWN WITH LANDING FLAPS SPEED NOT TO CRITICAL ANY FLAT POSN BTWN 5 AND 40 AND SPEED TO 120 KTS DONT HAVE ANGLE YET BUT WORKING ON IT"

I wonder if the experience shoving two to three hundred pound boxes thru the open aft door, was from Vietnam?

So the tower was trying to work out what kind of trim was needed with the flaps, to keep the plane from pitching up, while flying with the aft stairs down...

But: Maybe he is insisting on a flap degree:

on page 12

"305 HE SEEMS TO BE INSISTENT WITH STAIRS IN 1 DEG" (typo? maybe 15?)
"MSP IMPOSS TO TKOFF WITH STAIRS XTNDD BUT FULL UTXXX UP"
"305 R WANTS GIRL TO INITIATE STAIRS AFTR TKOFF SHUD WE TIE HER DOWN TO STRUCTURE"

on page 13/14 they note at 7:42 PM (edit: I had wrongly said 7:34 PM before)
that he's trying to lower the stairs and they have an aft stair lite on

they say they're 14 miles on V23 (vector 23)

So the aft stairs were lowered a lot earlier than 8:05?

page 16 is where they Stewardess Mucklow sees him with the "KNAPSACK AROUND HIM AND THINKS HE WILL ATTEMPT A JUMP"

they say indicated speed is 160 knots on page 16? and they're at ten thousand feet or are they at 15 thousand "indicated" as he says, and they're going to 10 thousand...The 15 is a typo...later transcripts with other towers more accurately cover the climb to 10 thousand.

So is the plane going slower than previously indicated? And Cooper maybe jumped before they got to 10 thousand? not clear.


"MSP FLT OPS WHT IS ALTDE"
"305 NOW AT 15THSD INDCTD 160 FUEL FLOW 4000 15 DEG FLAP GEAR DOWN CQN WILL STAY AT 1XX TEN THSD TIL HAS LEFT"
"8:01 PM PST"
(the time for an exchange is always last in the group)

at 8:12 PM on page 18, the pilot notes the oscillations and says he
must be doing something with the "AIR STAIRS"

at 8:05 PM on page 17 they noted trying to make contact with Cooper two times but no response. But then he did respond on the PA system.. so he's still there at 8:05 PM..

So there's a big 7 minute window of time where they don't really know where he jumped. The oscillation could have been from the stairs going full lowered when weighted by Cooper (as FBI testing showed) or maybe not

He could have jumped/fell after the oscillation..i.e. the FBI test had a guy walk out on the stairs, not actually jump (they used a sled for another test...)...maybe cooper hung on the stairs for a little while when he felt the plane oscillation..Maybe he jumped/fell 1 minute or so after the oscillation...i.e. around 8:13

still reading (I'm on page 18 of 99)

The new info for me was that the aft stairs were lowered well before 8:05...i.e. 7:42 (edited from 7:34)
So Cooper was waiting...waiting until he saw his (or maybe a?) desired landing zone before he jumped.
He didn't just get the stairs open and go for it right away.

Combine that with being able to see Portland/Vancouver lights thru the cloud cover, and it makes me more comfortable about Vancouver being the targeted jump zone.

I edited out some of the opinions Snowmman included just for space. I hope he doesn't mind. If these are the actual communications with the ground - I don't understand why there was so much controversary over all of this. I guess this is how Myth and Fact mingle and the story gets convoluted.

I don't know if you guys have seen this site or not - SOME REAL good PICs of the money with the ability to magnify them many times over. Brian actually still has money out there that has not been sold.

http://historical.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=6032&Lot_No=47010&type=amer6032-temaa102709

there are more bills than this one

http://historical.ha.com/common/search_items.php?txtSearch=cooper&hdnSearch=true&chkSupplies=

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

I think that was my very first post here.
Mar 30, 2008.

[377 22]

Quote

I think that was my very first post here.
Mar 30, 2008.

At the time of your first hit, did you ever think you would get addicted?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Quote

I think that was my very first post here.
Mar 30, 2008.

At the time of your first hit, did you ever think you would get addicted?

377

377, when I said older jumpers I meant...well i usually mean those who've been around longer than i have. but um i guess if talking rounds it does imply a certain age factor happy birthday btw ...

Snow... March 2008, was it really? Just after Bear blew up? Seems like both very recently and very long ago, if you know what I mean!

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 22]

Quote

377, when I said older jumpers I meant...well i usually mean those who've been around longer than i have. but um i guess if talking rounds it does imply a certain age factor happy birthday btw ...

Thanks Orange!
I actually tried wearing one of the new external ankle braces that the Army uses for paratroopers. It really interfered with the ability to run out a landing in no wind. I might wear one on a round jump but I think I'll pass on using it on square jumps.

Still working on radio HAHO jumps. I am trying to use an iPhone (used as a tone encoder/decoder not a phone) and a small black box HF transceiver to (hopefully) do text comms over very long distances (1000s of miles) using a digital mode called PSK 31.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

When lamenting to my daughter about how when I was her age (17), 60 seemed ancient to me, she responded:

"Relax Dad, 60 is the new 59."

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.