georger 244
377 22
QuoteAnd a big question of why this magazine was in a safe deposit box.
Might have nothing to do with parachuting or BuDop. Might have been to preserve a copy of the SOF classified ads. There were real killers for hire in there before the lawsuit made the editors clean it up. Duane was running in dangerous circles. Maybe he wanted someone "taken care of."
I am "thinking outside of the box", as you requested.
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2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
QuoteDuane Weber once went to the Virgin Islands. They are now called The Islands.
LOL. Snow, You ARE the man with the plan!
You have NO profile - give Phyllis my regards.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
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Quote... 1966 was Greg Larson's best year.
I believe that sometime around 1972 he married Tina Mucklow
How do you find this stuff Sluggo?
Did Snow give you the password to the "Friends of Sergei" Google search site?
Why isnt anyone trying to interview Larson to see what Tina might have said about the hijacking? We need Bruce back.
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2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
georger 244
QuoteQuote... 1966 was Greg Larson's best year.
I believe that sometime around 1972 he married Tina Mucklow
How do you find this stuff Sluggo?
Sluggo may have his source but its common
knowledge among people who have been at this
for some time -
Everyone has their own list of special info they think
they know and few know
Sluggo calls these" facts.
Sluggo will only work with: facts
"The sum total of facts is not the whole truth"
(Robt Oppenheimer)
snowmman 3
QuoteHow many of you already know that Christina (Tina) Mucklow graduated from Lankenau School for Girls in Germantown, Pa.? The school is closed now.
Poser.
search the thread, it's here.
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3698410;search_string=Lankenau;guest=64463619#3698410
Duane Weber used to work as a janitor there. He was fired.
snowmman 3
Farf, you missed two.
Trivia points if you can name the jumping hijacker who's not in prison and still alive.
Trivia points if you can name the jumping hijacker who's not in prison and still alive.
377 22
QuoteTold to fly towards Denver the plane is shadowed by F-111s. LaPoint jumps over the wheat fields of Colorado and is immediately tracked by the survival radio activated in the harness. Mr. LaPoint and his $50,000 were apprehended and he sentenced to 40 years.
Unusual domestic interceptor role for F 111s which were really more tactical bombers than fighters. As I recall a C 130 Herc with no air search radar did better intercepting Cooper's plane than the two SAGE datalink equipped F 106s did.
I watched the National Geographic Cooper special again last night. I was in a really good mood. Even Tom's propeller snag theory for upstream transport of the money sounded very reasonable. So did Agent H's claims about Cooper obviously being a hardened criminal. Too bad Duane as Cooper wasn't part of the presentation. I would have gone for that too.
What happened to the tie pollen analysis? It looked so "scientific" what with all that SEM hardware and images.
Tom also postulated that Cooper's body was washed out to sea in a few days. That also sounded plausible.
Maybe I am getting brainwashed. Could there be subliminal messages on the video? After all it is a matter of national security to hide Cooper's real identity which is well known to Jo Weber and to the FBI. I'd better destroy the DVD and get some deprogramming help right away.
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2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 22
The economy is so bad that skyjackers just ask for a second bag of peanuts.
The economy is so bad that I got a pre-declined credit card in the mail.
It's so bad, I ordered a burger at McDonalds and the kid behind the counter asked, "Can you afford fries with that?"
The economy is so bad that CEO's are now playing miniature golf.
The economy is so bad if the bank returns your check marked "Insufficient Funds," you call them and ask if they meant you or them.
The economy is so bad Obama met with three small businesses to discuss the Stimulus Package: GE, Pfizer, and Citigroup.
The economy is so bad parents in Beverly Hills fired their nannies and learned their children's names.
The economy is so bad the Mafia is laying off judges.
377
The economy is so bad that I got a pre-declined credit card in the mail.
It's so bad, I ordered a burger at McDonalds and the kid behind the counter asked, "Can you afford fries with that?"
The economy is so bad that CEO's are now playing miniature golf.
The economy is so bad if the bank returns your check marked "Insufficient Funds," you call them and ask if they meant you or them.
The economy is so bad Obama met with three small businesses to discuss the Stimulus Package: GE, Pfizer, and Citigroup.
The economy is so bad parents in Beverly Hills fired their nannies and learned their children's names.
The economy is so bad the Mafia is laying off judges.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Farflung 0
georger,
Why would Cooper bail over Portland and follow it up by jumping over Utah closer to McCoy's home? Why did McCoy have such trouble getting home the second time?
Mormons wear skinny ties? Do they smoke Raleigh's and drink? Did McCoy wear a tie, smoke or drink on his flight? Require gear down, flaps, airspeed 160? Ask to fly to a point well outside the 727's range? Did Tina Mucklow say sumin' like "That's him"?
He does resemble the Cooper drawing and had jump training. Why wasn't LaPoint Cooper? Use the same sun tan disguise logic and mistaken age without the smoking and drinking thing on a different airline and different route it's exactly the same.
Not having eyewitness verification leaves a very large hole in the theory for me. If a witness is not good enough for identification how could they be relied upon to supply a description for the composite drawings?
snowman,
Other than McNally, I don't know who jumped, is out and still alive. Other than......
Why would Cooper bail over Portland and follow it up by jumping over Utah closer to McCoy's home? Why did McCoy have such trouble getting home the second time?
Mormons wear skinny ties? Do they smoke Raleigh's and drink? Did McCoy wear a tie, smoke or drink on his flight? Require gear down, flaps, airspeed 160? Ask to fly to a point well outside the 727's range? Did Tina Mucklow say sumin' like "That's him"?
He does resemble the Cooper drawing and had jump training. Why wasn't LaPoint Cooper? Use the same sun tan disguise logic and mistaken age without the smoking and drinking thing on a different airline and different route it's exactly the same.
Not having eyewitness verification leaves a very large hole in the theory for me. If a witness is not good enough for identification how could they be relied upon to supply a description for the composite drawings?
snowman,
Other than McNally, I don't know who jumped, is out and still alive. Other than......
snowmman 3
Farf: search the thread on Hahneman
You'll love the photos of Hahneman I published.
The details of his jump (and the stuff he asked for) is pretty interesting. His personal life too, and military connection (civilan contractor/vietnam)
(I think he's dead or in prison still though? I don't think I resolved him)
Georger goes off about McCoy and Cooper.
Why doesn't Georger go off about Hahneman and Cooper?
G? why don't you show Hahneman some love?
He's close to Cooper in a lot of ways...like starting with age!
You'll love the photos of Hahneman I published.
The details of his jump (and the stuff he asked for) is pretty interesting. His personal life too, and military connection (civilan contractor/vietnam)
(I think he's dead or in prison still though? I don't think I resolved him)
Georger goes off about McCoy and Cooper.
Why doesn't Georger go off about Hahneman and Cooper?
G? why don't you show Hahneman some love?
He's close to Cooper in a lot of ways...like starting with age!
Orange1 0
QuoteI have been severely damaged by Jo. I'm looking to file claims.
Is there insurance that covers this?
??? You're in America, aren't you? Why don't you just sue?
Side note: I flew to Pretoria (and back) today. No-one tried to hijack either plane. There is already a billboard up as you drive into the city limits to welcome the first 3 teams (Brazil, USA and Italy) to play there. And a huge soccer ball on the telecoms tower, just begging for someone to jump off it. Hey, did DB Cooper do any BASE, I wonder?
377
re "the economy is so bad..."Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
snowmman 3
There. Now I'm Hahneman. Ah refreshing, kind of like cross-dressing. In Iceland. On a Friday night.
Orange1 0
Jeez, am I the only person left on this thread whose avatar actually has the poster in it??
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
377 22
Quotedid DB Cooper do any BASE, I wonder?
Well, sort of... at least according to Jerry's thinking:
Cooper's first drop was from a 727. The next was from a tree and he may have already been dead on the second drop. Is that BASE?
If there arent a lot of frivolous lawsuits in SA what do all the lawyers there do? Actual work?
I read some more about the English Electric Lightning jets in SA at Thunder City. I bet you could go suborbital in those twin jet monsters with just some small booster rockets attached.
I wonder how they stay in business at about US $25,000 for a forty minute flight. I bet they burn half that cost in fuel if they use the afterburners for any significant portion of the flight. Keeping a complex old Mach 2 plane like that airworthy is no small task. They have mini turbines that burn a highly specialized fuel (AVPIN, Iso Propyl Nitrate). The turbines are used as starter motors for the main propulsion jet engines. Finding reliable supplies of AVPIN is itself a major task.
http://www.rhodesianforces.org/No1sqnavpin.html
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2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 22
QuoteJeez, am I the only person left on this thread whose avatar actually has the poster in it??
Just you and me Orange. Everyone else is hiding behind an alias picture.
Jo has a spliced double alias (Duane is Cooper is Duane yin yang) picture. If she did that herself I am rejecting all further claims as to her being "just a dumb blonde who doesnt understand computers." She probably writes code and has hacked dropzone.com.
How's Baby O doing? Have you taken her to a DZ yet?
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 22
QuoteThere. Now I'm Hahneman. Ah refreshing, kind of like cross-dressing. In Iceland. On a Friday night.
Tell us more about your experiences with Icelandic culture Snowmman.
I reread that Harpers article about Iceland that Orange posted the link to. If their economy is that screwed you really should go there for a visit.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
I forgot to tell you all that I was iinformed last night about the death of Richard Tosaw - author of Dead or Alive. He was 84 yrs old. Those of us who diligently do our research have read his book and the articles written about his work.
If we all work together - we will find something missed by the FBI in regards to finding out who Cooper was. We know this man did NOT just put a chute on for the first time and jump out of a 727 in 197l. He was exposed to jump training at some point in his life and had the knowledge of 727's. His exposure was low - to the point he was someone no one would remember.
All of the research done seems to go to Fort Bragg, but little is said about Ft. Benning. Cooper was rugged - a loner - a trouble maker - a man no one would miss. We need to compile a list of the ways he could have learned to jump and where.
What if the CIA or another such organization wanted to do an operation that was not legal?
Bear with me for a moment because I don't understand any of this myself. It is beyond my conception of why a government would be involved in such an operation at all.
Question? Without drugs being involved why in the 50's or 60's would a group steal planes and take them to South America.
Something about stripping parts.
The operation involved WA, OR, MX and TX and South America. I only know its and bits - and not enough to understand.
1. I know El Capitan and Casa Grande where involved.
2. Knowledge of planes (such as a mechanic to strip them).
3. Knowledge of chutes - for whatever reason.
Of course they needed pilots.
What would be the reasoning of such a group and why would there be ANY government involvement? Sounds more like ex-government employees using their knowledge and experience to make money - but drugs were NOT involved during the early yrs. Dropping drugs with chutes came later. This is how drug running came to be - but WHAT was their purpose in the late 50's.
Something like the above should generate lots of suspects flying under the radar.
Some posters are trying to make the best of the thread by using it to find facts, then use those facts to help solve the case. This thread is the only skyjumping thread available where Cooper researchers can actually talk with real live jumpers and glean from their experiences and apply the knowledge to what is known about Cooper.
Those of us who want answers (regardless of our purpose) need to work together. This means not using valuable time to ridicule anyone for their contributions. This could become The COOPER THINK TANK and a tool that might get this case solved. What we need to do is to use this valuable tool made available to us and actually do something THE FBI can't do and has not done to this day in December of 2009 - SOLVE - The Only UNSOLVED SKYJACKING.
The collective knowledge in this forum is needed to do this. ALL of us are quilty of destroying the purpose of being here. This community did NOT allow us here to make accusations or to post unrelated material - there are other threads for that. Can't we all talk about the different suspects and develope new suspects without all of the "crap" for lack of a better word?
Yes, we NEED to have fun once in awhile and sometimes step away from Cooper, but we need to keep our goal in mind. We need to make every post count - no accusations - or being critical of the opinions of others. What Georger has done regarding the analyzing of a post I did is a good example - he did this without name calling or belittling the other poster.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
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PRO: Cooper (Weber), Ranger trained. No capture, loss of only $5800 out of $200,000.
SEMI PRO: McCoy, loss of $499,970 out of $500,000, prison and eventually death.
PRO: $5000 paid by Elliot Spitzer to Emperor's Club "hostess" Ashley Dupre'.
SEMI PRO: $24,000,000 in prenup amendment concessions and still climbing, offered by Tiger Woods to his wife as compensation for his "transgressions" with female companions who were not professional sex workers.
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SEMI PRO: McCoy, loss of $499,970 out of $500,000, prison and eventually death.
PRO: $5000 paid by Elliot Spitzer to Emperor's Club "hostess" Ashley Dupre'.
SEMI PRO: $24,000,000 in prenup amendment concessions and still climbing, offered by Tiger Woods to his wife as compensation for his "transgressions" with female companions who were not professional sex workers.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
QuoteQuoteThere. Now I'm Hahneman. Ah refreshing, kind of like cross-dressing. In Iceland. On a Friday night.
Tell us more about your experiences with Icelandic culture Snowmman.
I reread that Harpers article about Iceland that Orange posted the link to. If their economy is that screwed you really should go there for a visit.
377
Ok ..no shit.
So I'm hanging with Quentin Tarantino, right, trying to pitch a Cooper flick to him...guns, Weber, women, South Africa, gold...dirt landing 727s...the whole thing.
And people had said he likes to party. So I'm thinking How the hell am I going to show Quentin Tarantino a good time?
So I say to myself "Iceland". I figure I get him there on a Friday night and the deal is done, right?
This was like a while back, before I heard of DZ.com, back when Snowmman Industries had to shave the edges off quarters to stay in business.
You think I'm bullshitting you?
He couldn't stop talking about the trip afterwards. he was on Late Night with Conan, and he was talking about the trip.
http://www.grapevine.is/Home/ReadArticle/Quentin-Tarantino-You-Should-Work-for-the-Icelandic-Tourist-Board
But man, he never called back about the treatment. And I gave him a cell phone loaded with numbers. Not just one set of twins. Two!
Quentin: You Suck!
Excerpt from the link:
Quentin: Exactly. And man, oh man, oh man, I almost can’t imagine New Year’s anywhere else after that. Because like one: Icelanders, they go and they drink like crazy any old way, but on New Year’s, they lose their minds, in particularly the women lose their minds and like drink like crazy and I remember we were in this club with all these drunken girls, and this one girl was like you know, [Morticia Addams accent] “Oh man, I’m so embarrassed about Icelandic women, they always go out, and they always drink way too much, and make complete fools out of themselves.” Well right at the moment after she said that, a drunken girl walks by and does a face plant – BAM! – right in front of us.
Conan: So women are falling, and the women –
Quentin: No, but see here’s the thing, though. That’s the female perspective, alright? The non-Icelandic male perspective is, I’m in a room full of supermodels who are drunk out of their mind standing up on a table [stands up and begins to pump fist], “Let’s get the party started! Let’s get the party started!” (Laughter, applause) You know, where have I been all my life? This is the place to be!
Conan: But the women there, I’m told that the women there –
Quentin: Supermodels working in McDonalds! That’s what you got going on there, and they’re drunk, and not only that, you know, in America –
Conan: I’m surprised they don’t get you to do their tourist board commercial. “There’s supermodels everywhere and they’re at McDonalds and they’re all drunk!” [Boris Badinov accent] “Come to Iceland.”
Quentin: Come to Iceland! Brought to you by the Icelandic Tourist Board. But you know it’s funny because normally in America, the idea is to get the girls drunk enough to go home with you? In Iceland, you get the girls home before they get so drunk that they’re passing out in your bathroom, or vomiting all over you. That’s the trick.
quoted:
"In 1991, Russell Calame, yet another book-writing ex-FBI agent, co-authored "D.B. Cooper: The Real McCoy," which made the case that Cooper and McCoy were the same man. His theory was based on the similar methods of the hijackings, as well as an extrapolation drawn from a key piece of evidence that Cooper left behind on the Northwest jet: the skinny black tie with a mother-of-pearl clasp. The tie was like those worn by McCoy and other male Brigham Young students, and McCoy owned a mother-of-pearl clasp identical to the one left behind by Cooper.
Calame told the Salt Lake Tribune that McCoy "never admitted nor denied he was Cooper." Calame said McCoy was asked directly whether he was Cooper during interrogation following his arrest. According to Calame, McCoy responded, "I don't want to talk to you about it.'' He went to his grave with sealed lips.
O`Hara, the agent who killed McCoy, bought his colleague's theory, saying, "When I shot Richard McCoy, I shot D.B. Cooper at the same time."
[edit] for the record I am not sure I buy it either,
that they were one in the same, however they may
share a common nexus and key elements of the
hijacking are very similar, including the fact McCoy also used prewritten hijack instructions prepared in
a note, presented in an envelope.
Calame was a pretty good investigator, I think.
Maybe others feel differently but I happen to know
two people who knew and worked with him, who had
a high regard for Calame.
I am not saying McCoy and Cooper were the same person but they are a lot more similar than any
other two hijackers you want to compare -
There is another thing: baselines. In order to make
comparisons you must chose something or someone to use as a baseline. For a number of reasons McCoy may not be a bad choice to use as a baseline, to compare others to - Snowmman may
disagree with this. Snowmman may say everyone is their own baseline! Its an issue in methodology
used in investigations -