DB Cooper

[377 22]

Sluggo,

Could Cooper see enough distinctive geography (eg peaks) to take bearings on them and establish location? Was the ceiling too low? Are there lights on prominent peaks sightable from the presumed landing area?

Many peaks used to have aero light beacons but I don't know when they were decommisioned.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Quote

Food for thought - Cooper was a dirty rotten criminal - but he was someone who managed to acquire enough knowledge to beat the system - why not within the very system he beat?

It would be a remarkable transformation indeed if a petty criminal who seemed to screw up most of his crimes resulting in arrest, conviction and incarceration managed to pull off the crime of the century and get away scott free. Why do you think that is even a possibility Jo? Nothing fits. Despite your claims you have presented ZERO evidence that shows Duane was a trained parachutist. ZERO. NADA. NOTHING.

Stop claiming it if you have no proof.

377

Did I mention Weber? - Sorry! I am sorting thru profiles of skyjackers from a book I am reading written by a psychiatrist who was commissioned to study skyjackers...prior to Norjax.

As for PROOF Weber had jumping experience - I cannot discuss this in the forum, but I am trying to make contributions that might lead to the actual unveiling of possible suspects.
Weber might well be within that scope, but that is not my intentions with this train of thought.

Obviously, there had to be suspects over-looked by the FBI. This process is to isolate the possibilities of this actually happening. It is possible this search could lead to the unveiling of these suspects. The problem is how to obtain the names and locations of incarcerations of prior skyjackers.

My thinking is that while in the system - this dirty rotten criminal did not participate in the violence within the system. He may have spent more time listening to the stories of others. It was common knowledge after the 1971 incident - that many of the prisoners spent time planning the "Big One". The talkers - are usually just "talkers".

The informers within the system managed to hold their own while accumulating information. This was done by fitting in, staying out of the violence, being a listener and having a goal of freedom. How many won commutions of sentences - even after having passed time in multiple other prisons? Weber did have an excellent cover - as he was incarcerated under an AKA, but that is irrevelant to where I am going.

I was told by authorities that skyjackers would have been held in High Securtiy prisons - but I do not know what existed in the the 50's and 60's consistent with this train of thought. Perhaps that is true today - but, was it true in the 50's and 60's. What was consider High Security beside Leavenworth?

This is just an exercise in the possible ways Cooper slipped thru the cracks. Evidently Cooper live and died - someone knew him - or was he born at the age of approx 45? Since the investigative system has NOT uncovered Cooper and nothing we have explored in this thread has held any more promise than the FBI's investigation - perhaps it is time to take this into a realm only given a cursory glance by the autorities at the time. The ones they did look into were compromised of individuals with "known" jumping experience during times frames prior to Norjax.

The system as it exists now was not available - and the investigative authorites had NO real way to trace the jumping experience of all suspects. Even today - some jumping experience is still obscured from the 50's and 60's because of the embarassement it created for the Government in those times.
Slowly these stories are coming to surface as that generation dies off.

This post was written by Jo Weber on January 2, 2010

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Sluggo,

Could Cooper see enough distinctive geography (eg peaks) to take bearings on them and establish location? Was the ceiling too low? Are there lights on prominent peaks sightable from the presumed landing area?

Many peaks used to have aero light beacons but I don't know when they were decommisioned.

377

In the past I have explained where several of the peaks and lights where located. You can take a pen and draw a straight line thur the towers from the Orchard area to the Washougal area. I have an old 1970's map that shows the towers and signal lights. Some do NOT exist today, but it was not necessary for me to know when these towers and signal lights where removed. There were several other tower lights on other peaks - but the most obvious to me from the route he took me on in 1979 were the ones in a straight line toward Lake LaCames...near each tower was possible cover or protection from the elements near by...such as a forestry feeding station that would have been unoccupied and unoccupied cabins...within several hundred feet by trails or dirt roads.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

7ECA siad:

Quote

Chester A Riley

BINGO!

And you... Sir... Must be an "old fart."

Sluggo

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Quote

Sluggo,

Could Cooper see enough distinctive geography (eg peaks) to take bearings on them and establish location? Was the ceiling too low? Are there lights on prominent peaks sightable from the presumed landing area?

Many peaks used to have aero light beacons but I don't know when they were decommisioned.

377

It’s been 15 years since I flew that area at night. I don’t remember any clearance lights except on man-made structures. I have a guy that is trying to snag me a 1971 Seattle Sectional. If (when) he gets it to me, we can take a look.

I think (just my personal opinion) he would mostly see sky-glow (at 10,000 MSL) from Longview-Kelso and Portland-Vancouver (one unit) and as he got south maybe a brief glimpse of Goldendale, Hood River and the Dalles. But mostly sky-glow not lights on the ground (except through small cloud breaks. I was VFR only and never flew that area under those conditions.

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[georger 244]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Food for thought - Cooper was a dirty rotten criminal - but he was someone who managed to acquire enough knowledge to beat the system - why not within the very system he beat?

It would be a remarkable transformation indeed if a petty criminal who seemed to screw up most of his crimes resulting in arrest, conviction and incarceration managed to pull off the crime of the century and get away scott free. Why do you think that is even a possibility Jo? Nothing fits. Despite your claims you have presented ZERO evidence that shows Duane was a trained parachutist. ZERO. NADA. NOTHING.

Stop claiming it if you have no proof.

377

Did I mention Weber? - Sorry! I am sorting thru profiles of skyjackers from a book I am reading written by a psychiatrist who was commissioned to study skyjackers...prior to Norjax.

As for PROOF Weber had jumping experience - I cannot discuss this in the forum, but I am trying to make contributions that might lead to the actual unveiling of possible suspects.
Weber might well be within that scope, but that is not my intentions with this train of thought.

Obviously, there had to be suspects over-looked by the FBI. This process is to isolate the possibilities of this actually happening. It is possible this search could lead to the unveiling of these suspects. The problem is how to obtain the names and locations of incarcerations of prior skyjackers.

My thinking is that while in the system - this dirty rotten criminal did not participate in the violence within the system. He may have spent more time listening to the stories of others. It was common knowledge after the 1971 incident - that many of the prisoners spent time planning the "Big One". The talkers - are usually just "talkers".

The informers within the system managed to hold their own while accumulating information. This was done by fitting in, staying out of the violence, being a listener and having a goal of freedom. How many won commutions of sentences - even after having passed time in multiple other prisons? Weber did have an excellent cover - as he was incarcerated under an AKA, but that is irrevelant to where I am going.

I was told by authorities that skyjackers would have been held in High Securtiy prisons - but I do not know what existed in the the 50's and 60's consistent with this train of thought. Perhaps that is true today - but, was it true in the 50's and 60's. What was consider High Security beside Leavenworth?

This is just an exercise in the possible ways Cooper slipped thru the cracks. Evidently Cooper live and died - someone knew him - or was he born at the age of approx 45? Since the investigative system has NOT uncovered Cooper and nothing we have explored in this thread has held any more promise than the FBI's investigation - perhaps it is time to take this into a realm only given a cursory glance by the autorities at the time. The ones they did look into were compromised of individuals with "known" jumping experience during times frames prior to Norjax.

The system as it exists now was not available - and the investigative authorites had NO real way to trace the jumping experience of all suspects. Even today - some jumping experience is still obscured from the 50's and 60's because of the embarassement it created for the Government in those times.
Slowly these stories are coming to surface as that generation dies off.

This post was written by Jo Weber on January 2, 2010

The words of a Fool.

[georger 244]

Quote

All avenues of research regarding the 1971 Highjacking of a N.W. airlines has been research except one.

A certain amount of the skyjackers where held within the US penal system - state, federal and local.

Is there anyway to find out the names of all of the skyjackers and where they were incarcerated? What if a aging excon was incarcerated in the same system as one of these skyjacker and/or was hospitalized with one of them.

We know that many of the leads regarding D.B. Cooper came from within the penal system and that some of these came out of Jefferson among other prisons. I do know that some where housed in the Mo. system, but do not know who or when. These hijackers were held in various prisons through-out the states...but where would this information be found?

An aging ex-con being fascinated by stories told in one of the prisons does not does meet any of the expectations or criterior the public nor the FBI seriously considered...but WHAT if? Maybe this is how Cooper slipped thru the cracks of the system?

Worth exploring and means only finding the files on those of the 83 during that time span that orginated in the U.S or the destination was the U.S. Surely the number is less than 1/2 of the 83 worldwide during that time span.

Food for thought - Cooper was a dirty rotten criminal - but he was someone who managed to acquire enough knowledge to beat the system - why not within the very system he beat?

You guys want to solve this case?
Well go where NO ONE has ever gone before. Should be interesting - we might crack this case in a way the FBI could not.

What if? Just What if? What a twist on Norjak! Some people listen ranter than banter - while in prison...safer to be invisible.

If you are going to plagiarise others at least
get your facts straight.

You have a long history of plagiarism (stealing the
work and ideas of others) I for one wish you would stop your low budget sleazy bottom feeding.

Being the Fool you are you even sign your own
plagiarism! And copywrite it as your own.

That takes guts!

It also requires that you have a very low opinion of your fellow humans, that no one will examine or care what you say. Or that everyone is beneath you in
importance.

This coming seasons there are going to be changes.

For one, the Gosset story is going to take headlines.
The Weber case is closed and over.

You had better run to Sister Stella and Par Bey
and get a new reading. The Weberphelia is closed.

[georger 244]

Quote

Quote

Sluggo,

Could Cooper see enough distinctive geography (eg peaks) to take bearings on them and establish location? Was the ceiling too low? Are there lights on prominent peaks sightable from the presumed landing area?

Many peaks used to have aero light beacons but I don't know when they were decommisioned.

377

It’s been 15 years since I flew that area at night. I don’t remember any clearance lights except on man-made structures. I have a guy that is trying to snag me a 1971 Seattle Sectional. If (when) he gets it to me, we can take a look.

I think (just my personal opinion) he would mostly see sky-glow (at 10,000 MSL) from Longview-Kelso and Portland-Vancouver (one unit) and as he got south maybe a brief glimpse of Goldendale, Hood River and the Dalles. But mostly sky-glow not lights on the ground (except through small cloud breaks. I was VFR only and never flew that area under those conditions.

One early story is that Cooper could have seen/
might have seen, the lights at Merwin Dam and
used those to bail with.

That story came out in '71-'72 and I have no idea
who or what originated the story, but it was commonly being mentioned, clear down at Vancouver (and at Tacoma) (and at Portland) ....???

[Farflung 0]

I'm in the process of cross compiling the names of people who were registered in the Fred Astaire Dance Studios and Arthur Murray Dance Studios from 1954 through 1971.

This will be of great value as there is no evidence that Cooper had any dance training but he was wearing low quarter shoes which are favored by dancers more than jumpers.

I've tried to make contact with a well know Alcapa breeder for the obvious reasons.

Slowly I'm starting to connect the dots and am not quite sure if I like what I see.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

I'm in the process of cross compiling the names of people who were registered in the Fred Astaire Dance Studios and Arthur Murray Dance Studios from 1954 through 1971.

This will be of great value as there is no evidence that Cooper had any dance training but he was wearing low quarter shoes which are favored by dancers more than jumpers.

I've tried to make contact with a well know Alcapa breeder for the obvious reasons.

Slowly I'm starting to connect the dots and am not quite sure if I like what I see.

Farflung. I think you're going to test the moderator's patience because you're bringing up stuff that has already been addressed in the thread.

As I noted here more than a year ago
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3426831;search_string=dancer;guest=65182582#3426831

Now let's focus on new stuff.
Jo: so your belief is that Duane Weber was Dan Cooper? Do I have that part correct?

[Farflung 0]

snowman,

You're right, I have been careless about redundant posts.

I should have known the path of fiber bearing, quadrupeds, owned by meat eating, dancers being Cooper was well trodden.

I've got to stop being so conventional and get weird with my analysis. Otherwise the same old theories will get recycled as I so adroitly demonstrated.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

georger said:

Quote

One early story is that Cooper could have seen/
might have seen, the lights at Merwin Dam and
used those to bail with.

That story came out in '71-'72 and I have no idea
who or what originated the story, but it was commonly being mentioned, clear down at Vancouver (and at Tacoma) (and at Portland) ....???

Right!

I forgot about all those lights on Merwin Dam. They would cause sky-glow too. I saw an after-dark photo (on a clear night) taken at ground level and it looked like one-half of a football stadium.

ADDENDUM: I just check an old flight plan, I used to fly just south of Lake Merwin on a direct route from Goldendale to Longview-Kelso. I do not remember those lights. It may be because I was using radio-navigation and just not paying attention since the dam dosen't affect the flight, and I wasn't using it for navigation, but I never recall seeing them. From the photo I saw they would be very noticeable. It's been a long time.

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[snowmman 3]

Quote

snowman,

You're right, I have been careless about redundant posts.

I should have known the path of fiber bearing, quadrupeds, owned by meat eating, dancers being Cooper was well trodden.

I've got to stop being so conventional and get weird with my analysis. Otherwise the same old theories will get recycled as I so adroitly demonstrated.

meat eating? That's not been discussed. Was Duane Weber vegan? We've never discussed that. What did he like on his hamburger?

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Quote

All avenues of research regarding the 1971 Highjacking of a N.W. airlines has been research except one.

A certain amount of the skyjackers where held within the US penal system - state, federal and local.

Is there anyway to find out the names of all of the skyjackers and where they were incarcerated? What if a aging excon was incarcerated in the same system as one of these skyjacker and/or was hospitalized with one of them.

We know that many of the leads regarding D.B. Cooper came from within the penal system and that some of these came out of Jefferson among other prisons. I do know that some where housed in the Mo. system, but do not know who or when. These hijackers were held in various prisons through-out the states...but where would this information be found?

An aging ex-con being fascinated by stories told in one of the prisons does not does meet any of the expectations or criterior the public nor the FBI seriously considered...but WHAT if? Maybe this is how Cooper slipped thru the cracks of the system?

Worth exploring and means only finding the files on those of the 83 during that time span that orginated in the U.S or the destination was the U.S. Surely the number is less than 1/2 of the 83 worldwide during that time span.

Food for thought - Cooper was a dirty rotten criminal - but he was someone who managed to acquire enough knowledge to beat the system - why not within the very system he beat?

You guys want to solve this case?
Well go where NO ONE has ever gone before. Should be interesting - we might crack this case in a way the FBI could not.

What if? Just What if? What a twist on Norjak! Some people listen ranter than banter - while in prison...safer to be invisible.

Georger STATES:

If you are going to plagiarise others at least
get your facts straight.

You have a long history of plagiarism (stealing the
work and ideas of others) I for one wish you would stop your low budget sleazy bottom feeding.

Being the Fool you are you even sign your own plagiarism! And copywrite it as your own.

That takes guts!

It also requires that you have a very low opinion of your fellow humans, that no one will examine or care what you say. Or that everyone is beneath you in importance.

For one, the Gosset story is going to take headlines.
The Weber case is closed and over.

Jo Weber state:

I read a book and and stated some opinions. In a prior post I Quoted and put in "" quotes a couple of lines from a book. I was careful to put quotes around them. The above statements are MY opinions from the material I read combined with information I presented to the FBI in the late 90's. I was immediately scoffed at for even mentioning the possibilities that I have stated above and stated at that time regarding the penal system. Yet, I now find (14 yrs later) a book was published on this subject in 1970.

I know about Cook's book and it will probably be a good book - what he didn't take from me - remember...these things.

1. Who was the first person to ever state the money got into the Columbia in 1979 and that it had been retrieved from another locations where it was stored? Jo Weber
2. Who was the first person to talk about leaving prints on the aft stair? Jo Weber discussing the dream Duane had in 1978 -which was WAY before Cook was even writing or had considered a book on Gossett. The fingerprint story goes back to the day the FBI came to my home in 1997 and in my written reports to Himmelsbach and the FBI.
3. Until the FBI can say with evidence that someone else was Cooper - this case IS not closed.

Georger, I do not understand WHY when I present possibilities regarding solutions concerning the identification of Cooper that you go so berserk. There is NO excuse in that behaviour IF you are TRUELY interested in helping solved this 38 yr. old crime. You only get upset when I make a post that is basically neutral - and reasonable. You then make every effort to attack the idea - WHY?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

The Utah Guard HALO may have been where Duane requalified?
Also this confirms that Duane had Vietnam era jumpmaster experience.

from
http://greygooseadventures.blogspot.com/2009/11/38-years-ago-northwest-airlines-flight.html


Who was Cooper? 'DB' was a highly skilled ex U.S. military jumpmaster and professional ATR commercial pilot. He had heavy aircraft and FAA operations knowledge along with the military parachuting experience.

Did he survive the jump? I believe he did - he had the skill (Vietnam era jumpmaster) and recent experience - a Utah Air National Guard unit made a 'halo' requalification jump several weeks previous reported seeing a 'DB' look alike during this 'hop'.

And what happened to the loot, only a small part of which has ever surfaced? I can only guess it was discreetly passed into world money circulation using international distribution to prevent targeting. Or was it 'splashed' or 'burried' in an attempt to through the 'heat' off track?

Where has "DB" been all of these years? I believe he has been working in retirement overseas undercover as a flight operations consultant for organizations able to pay his 'price' on his 'terms' ..

[snowmman 3]

From the same site:


Captain on Motor Yacht GREY GOOSE said...


The FBI knows who "D.B. Cooper" is but cannot locate him. I know who he is but have never seen him since a week before the hijacking.. I think he is out of the country working for an employer who can protect his identity. Following the money will NOT find "DB" but its for sure would make your journey through life more enjoyable... :-)

[snowmman 3]

does anyone know what kind of food they brought on board in Seattle?

Was it an assortment, or just chicken dishes?


(edit) Farflung has reported that Duane was vegan. Maybe this is why Duane didn't eat any of the food?

[snowmman 3]

The FBI is working with the public to find Cooper. Himmelsbach believes that Cooper may have jumped near the Washougal. The FBI has released never-before-seen details.

[snowmman 3]

Just found out through Citizen Sleuth Group contacts:
Duane Weber prints were found on the phone Duane used to talk to the cockpit. The prints were wiped by the FBI, however, and the evidence hidden until 3 days ago.

The phone was found by a slingshot manufacturer, in the FBI evidence vault. Picture attached.

Anyone familar with 1971 era 727 cabin phones can confirm.
Farflung?


(edit) as you can see there are 5 black buttons, the red button, and the R button?

I can't make out the Directory.

Which button do you push to get the cockpit??

(edit) reminder: Duane was familar with buttons from when he took the backyard photo of Lee Harvey Oswald.

[georger 244]

Quote

I'm in the process of cross compiling the names of people who were registered in the Fred Astaire Dance Studios and Arthur Murray Dance Studios from 1954 through 1971.

This will be of great value as there is no evidence that Cooper had any dance training but he was wearing low quarter shoes which are favored by dancers more than jumpers.

I've tried to make contact with a well know Alcapa breeder for the obvious reasons.

Slowly I'm starting to connect the dots and am not quite sure if I like what I see.

You beat me to it!

The Arthur Murray studios! Every kid not electing for ballet or street brawling (or slavery on a farm) had to endure the Arthur Murray Studio. One in every small town in America. Even a few kids on farms
did this at the behest of their parents. It was the
route dejur out of barbaric savagery.

Dan could not have escaped that, unless he was
raised a foreigner, or raised at Virginia Beach by
trailer trash.

[georger 244]

Quote

georger said:

Quote

One early story is that Cooper could have seen/
might have seen, the lights at Merwin Dam and
used those to bail with.

That story came out in '71-'72 and I have no idea
who or what originated the story, but it was commonly being mentioned, clear down at Vancouver (and at Tacoma) (and at Portland) ....???

Right!

I forgot about all those lights on Merwin Dam. They would cause sky-glow too. I saw an after-dark photo (on a clear night) taken at ground level and it looked like one-half of a football stadium.

ADDENDUM: I just check an old flight plan, I used to fly just south of Lake Merwin on a direct route from Goldendale to Longview-Kelso. I do not remember those lights. It may be because I was using radio-navigation and just not paying attention since the dam dosen't affect the flight, and I wasn't using it for navigation, but I never recall seeing them. From the photo I saw they would be very noticeable. It's been a long time.

We dont know that Cooper was familiar with
anything from the air. His one reference to Tacoma
could have been a ground reference. We just dont know for sure. He did have the turn-around time at SEA pretty well right (from your earlier post on this).

[georger 244]

1. Who was the first person to ever state the money got into the Columbia in 1979 and that it had been retrieved from another locations where it was stored? Jo Weber
2. Who was the first person to talk about leaving prints on the aft stair? Jo Weber discussing the dream Duane had in 1978 -which was WAY before Cook was even writing or had considered a book on Gossett. The fingerprint story goes back to the day the FBI came to my home in 1997 and in my written reports to Himmelsbach and the FBI.
3. Until the FBI can say with evidence that someone else was Cooper - this case IS not closed.

Georger, I do not understand WHY when I present possibilities regarding solutions concerning the identification of Cooper that you go so berserk. There is NO excuse in that behaviour IF you are TRUELY interested in helping solved this 38 yr. old crime. You only get upset when I make a post that is basically neutral - and reasonable. You then make every effort to attack the idea - WHY?

[georger 244]

Quote

does anyone know what kind of food they brought on board in Seattle?

Was it an assortment, or just chicken dishes?


(edit) Farflung has reported that Duane was vegan. Maybe this is why Duane didn't eat any of the food?

sandwiches I think.

[Farflung 0]

Through tireless analysis I have expanded the field of Cooper suspects.

The first would be the youngest suspect who was hiding in plain sight just after the hijacking (Mr Y). Finding him made me squeal with excitement.

The second successfully maintained the mantle of maverick businessman thus explaining the lack of money entering circulation (Mr X).

If either of their prints match the one on the interphone handset - Bingo. Of course I'm not excluding a team effort by both of these individuals which would explain the difficulty in solving this case.

[skyjack71 0]

Seems like Cooper is just a Big Joke to some of you, not realizing that the truths maybe right in front of you.

Very tired of fighting this battle. I have dealt with too much garbage from posters who have nothing better to do than ridicule any logical information that is put out. This forum NO longer belongs in History and Trivia.

When it is put in the Bonfire - then the serious posters such as Sluggo and 377 and others will have no place to air creditable
information. I really hate to see that day come - but it is on the horizon, due to current nonsense being posted.




Why can't I open the pictures on your site Sluggo? I asked you about this before ..and would like to see the pics. I do not post on the site - so as not to intrude, but my friend can't open the pictures either.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber