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Quoteone can make fun of lyrics in songs (Doors)
But: at times it empowers us.
It's kind of scary thinking how we're a mix of the rational and the irrational. There's power in both.
Oh, trust me, I am doing nothing but making fun of this
whole thread.
Jo is using a combination of the most implausible
leaps of logic to connect Duane to anyone with parachute
training. Meanwhile, not actually connecting him in
any fashion to a seat in the airplane.
There were literally hundreds of people with parachute
training at the time and they did not do it either.
People respond with replies to the best troll on the internet. Just quit replying.
Not one piece of fact has been produced in 15,000 posts.
An occasional good joke is the only value that I find
in this thread.
Yes, I am most certainly laughing.
snowmman 3
Fact: this is post 15008
snowmman 3
Quote
QuoteOh and one more thing.
Jo: you're a nut case.
An you my friend are Nuttier than a Fruitcake.
P.S. Emory cloths where used yrs ago by criminals to smooth off their prints making them more difficult for law enforcement to lift them or read them....I never really knew how this might help a criminal. Duane was the one who told me about how criminals used emory cloth. A cloth that somehow incorporates fine gritty grains of something (asbestos, glass, sand or whatever).
Welcome to the USA!
There's a reason we will win! We understand emery cloth. ("e" Jo. E!)
Unbelievers: don't! They don't even have any!
And Duane said "Let there be emery cloth."
And there was. And it was good.
And all surfaces were smooth thereafter.
But one day, a prophet said "Why must all surfaces be smooth?"
(edit) I love the practice of saying "my friend" before an attempt at an insult.
My penultimate friend of all friends.
snowmman 3
Quote
As far as responses to Jo's posts are concerned - 377 hit the nail on the head in his response. Sluggo has tried patiently and diplomatically to explain this more than once to Jo as well.
Labrys contributed more in 30 seconds than Snow and Jo combined in more than a decade.
I guess Labrys won.
georger 244
QuoteQuoteQuoteVery tired of fighting this battle. I have dealt with too much garbage from posters who have nothing better to do than ridicule any logical information that is put out.
Jo,
The reason you get ridiculed is that you do not post information. You post claims without supporting evidence. There is always some reason you cannot post the evidence. Just post it it if you have it. If you don't have it then don't make the claims.
I think Jo has the situation exactly 180 degrees wrong. When logical information is put out, it tends to be followed up very seriously and thoroughly and well debated in the forum (think: flight path, hydraulics, interviews with the stewardesses, Cooper's clothing, possible angle from the 727 drops in Vietnam, etc etc). The 'garbage' normally comes, it seems, from posters who cannot quit the thread but are posting in 'slack' times! When something concrete comes along again they tend to leave the rambling off-topic posts behind and try examine the latest angle.
As far as responses to Jo's posts are concerned - 377 hit the nail on the head in his response. Sluggo has tried patiently and diplomatically to explain this more than once to Jo as well.
You-all have been here before.
How are you going to get yourselves out this time?
Its yours to do. I wont help this time.
Good luck -
377 posted:
The same lights used on the ground are some of the same ones he used when making the jump. Hopefully a good map with the approximations of the plane will be made available. I tried to do one myself using Jerry's and Sluggo's marking and then the sitings that were reported in the media.
I made my own marks on the posted map, but unfortunately when I tried to upload the same map I downloaded - it was too large, I do not understand these things - it is just hit or miss when it comes to posting maps and pictures with my limited knowledge of these things.
I would like to use that same map to indicated the locations of all towers - marked on this old map I have. I could use numbers and then attach a directive for the numbers giving the name of the tower and location. I only have a map with these towers on it for a portion of the area - so I would not have any marks above the Battleground area. Haven't figured out how to do this - was hoping for assistance from a regular map posting expert. At least what I think about the area Cooper came down in would be documented - just encase..........
With one map in front of me I will try to list some towers and lights - note this is only for the area from the Columbia W to Goodwin Road and Dresser Rd and North of the Washougal to Cougar Creek. Then East to Gibbons Road and ends with NE 192 nd Avenue.
Brunner Hill
Prune Hill
Woodburn Hill
Mt Norway (2)
Nichols Hill
Green Mt - just off this map
(When I speak of Green Mt. I am talking about a small Mt. near Lake LaCames and NOT the Green Mt up near Lake Merwin.
There was also a tower that is not on this old map that was close into the town of Washougal and near the Columbia that was no longer there - it was a sgnal light for a small airstrip - but, I haven't found it on this map.
There were 3 small airstrips / landing areas in this condensed area.
I have other maps but they do not date back to the 70's as this on does and encompass much larger areas.
Remember that also scattered out among the above are radio towers, fire towers and look-outs, microwave tower - etc., that I do not see on this map.
QuoteMy question about the visibility of distinctive peaks or lights referred to what Cooper could have seen from the ground and might have been used by him to determine his position.
I don't see how Cooper could have made a successful egress if he landed safely due to the intense news media attention. He either died or had some help. He didn't walk all the way to civilization. The help could have been impromptu eg a sympathetic pot farmer or preplanned such as an accomplice with a vehicle.
The same lights used on the ground are some of the same ones he used when making the jump. Hopefully a good map with the approximations of the plane will be made available. I tried to do one myself using Jerry's and Sluggo's marking and then the sitings that were reported in the media.
I made my own marks on the posted map, but unfortunately when I tried to upload the same map I downloaded - it was too large, I do not understand these things - it is just hit or miss when it comes to posting maps and pictures with my limited knowledge of these things.
I would like to use that same map to indicated the locations of all towers - marked on this old map I have. I could use numbers and then attach a directive for the numbers giving the name of the tower and location. I only have a map with these towers on it for a portion of the area - so I would not have any marks above the Battleground area. Haven't figured out how to do this - was hoping for assistance from a regular map posting expert. At least what I think about the area Cooper came down in would be documented - just encase..........
With one map in front of me I will try to list some towers and lights - note this is only for the area from the Columbia W to Goodwin Road and Dresser Rd and North of the Washougal to Cougar Creek. Then East to Gibbons Road and ends with NE 192 nd Avenue.
Brunner Hill
Prune Hill
Woodburn Hill
Mt Norway (2)
Nichols Hill
Green Mt - just off this map
(When I speak of Green Mt. I am talking about a small Mt. near Lake LaCames and NOT the Green Mt up near Lake Merwin.
There was also a tower that is not on this old map that was close into the town of Washougal and near the Columbia that was no longer there - it was a sgnal light for a small airstrip - but, I haven't found it on this map.
There were 3 small airstrips / landing areas in this condensed area.
I have other maps but they do not date back to the 70's as this on does and encompass much larger areas.
Remember that also scattered out among the above are radio towers, fire towers and look-outs, microwave tower - etc., that I do not see on this map.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
georger 244
Not one piece of fact has been produced in 15,000 posts.
So here is one: you are full of shit.
snowmman 3
Jo mentioned something about towers and maps.
That reminds me.
Didn't Duane say something about towers?
Was Duane Weber Dan Cooper?
That reminds me.
Didn't Duane say something about towers?
Was Duane Weber Dan Cooper?
snowmman 3
This thread works on a number of delightful levels.
One is that it's a skydiving forum, and there's a historical cultural thing about skydivers making fun of non-skydivers.
But within this thread, skydivers have been woefully inadequate at pulling that off.
Sure, you can go snicker elsewhere, but you know in your heart that doesn't accomplish the intended goal.
Because this thread continues.
Beautiful. All attempts at control are thwarted.
The inherent beauty of the Internet. (and successful guerrilla campaigns)
One is that it's a skydiving forum, and there's a historical cultural thing about skydivers making fun of non-skydivers.
But within this thread, skydivers have been woefully inadequate at pulling that off.
Sure, you can go snicker elsewhere, but you know in your heart that doesn't accomplish the intended goal.
Because this thread continues.
Beautiful. All attempts at control are thwarted.
The inherent beauty of the Internet. (and successful guerrilla campaigns)
1969912 0
QuoteI don't see how my posts are any less useful than others.
Let's compare.
Someone do a "good" post.
OK.
Larch Mountain (~3.4K foot) had antenna tower on it in 1980, and the tower had lights. I climbed it at the time to add an antenna while working for Vel Communications in Vancouver. IIRC, the Clark County SO repeaters were located there. It's ~10 miles E of Orchards.
Flash Earth view: http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=45.716972&lon=-122.295694&z=15&r=0&src=ggl
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larch_Mountain_(Clark_County,_Washington)
"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG
More towers and beacons
Near Camp Bonneville
Do not know if the following had lights in 1971
Little Baldy Mtn
Camp Hill (think so)
Munsell Hill
Little elkhon Mtn
Spud Mtn
Livingston Mtn
Of the above Duane made direct mention by name of 3 of the places near or on Camp Bonneville. He also mentioned the Creek that runs thru the Camp area along a portions of it and crosses down to the area he took me. This creek forks before reaching the Hill he took me to.
That creek is Matney Creek and when it forks it become Little Matney Creek (I had no idea what the name was in 1979). He also mention a quarry in that area in the same breath as Little Baldy Mtn.
Yes, Jerry I did acquire a map that shows me the correlations between what he told me and showed me - none of this is fiction nor fantasy. Strange that I told you these things - and yet you denied they existed and you even told me there WAS no way Cooper was in this area. Now - your focus of search has taken it even further East.
One can believe this or not, but it is the truth so help me GOD...at this point in my life I have NO reason to lie or create any kind of confusion. Others might have "reasons" to create things - I am not writing a book - I just am looking for answer where-ever I might find them.
So far NO one - not the FBI nor others - have been able to explain to me Duane Weber's interest and phenomenal knowledge of the area. (You have to have worked and lived there to know the area the way he did and with such detail). NOT one person has offered any explanation for this - NOT one.
I have in the past told about the other areas he mentioned on that trip, but did not go to. Spokane and a small area to the East of there called Coeur d'Alene
in Idaho. He told me about a hunting lodge somewhere in that area near or on an Indian Reservation.
He mentioned some areas on our little trip to the "airport" explaining and naming some small towns that would be along the road to Vancouver, Alaska. (We did not go far out of Seattle on this "short cut" before turning back). The one I remember his naming specifically is a hole in the ground called Nooksack. Perhaps that was because of the unusual name. He rattled off names I cannot even pronounce when I see it written - Indian names.
When I am presented with a factual and reasonable and prove-able reasons Duane knew the area the way he did and when he was there - then and only then will I back down - until then I will continue with my efforts until I can NO longer continue - that time is coming all to soon.
I am doing everything I can at this time for closure - things I have sworn I would never ever do. That is the part I regret, but I must do these things - not for Duane or proving he was Cooper - BUT, for me.
Emotional Exercise for posters:
Pretend you are a child 6 yrs of age - and you see your father kill a man, but at the time you didn't understand the man was dead. 30 yrs later you learn a body was found at that location and the killer was never known. You had moved from the area a couple of months after the incident.
Yrs later you relocate back to the area and an old cold case is discussed in the newpaper - and you remember when you were there with your father. What would you do? You had learned as you grew up your father was a cold and caculating man and he had been arrested several times.
Do you sit on that memory because he was your father or to you seek justice and closure for the victim and his family?
Near Camp Bonneville
Do not know if the following had lights in 1971
Little Baldy Mtn
Camp Hill (think so)
Munsell Hill
Little elkhon Mtn
Spud Mtn
Livingston Mtn
Of the above Duane made direct mention by name of 3 of the places near or on Camp Bonneville. He also mentioned the Creek that runs thru the Camp area along a portions of it and crosses down to the area he took me. This creek forks before reaching the Hill he took me to.
That creek is Matney Creek and when it forks it become Little Matney Creek (I had no idea what the name was in 1979). He also mention a quarry in that area in the same breath as Little Baldy Mtn.
Yes, Jerry I did acquire a map that shows me the correlations between what he told me and showed me - none of this is fiction nor fantasy. Strange that I told you these things - and yet you denied they existed and you even told me there WAS no way Cooper was in this area. Now - your focus of search has taken it even further East.
One can believe this or not, but it is the truth so help me GOD...at this point in my life I have NO reason to lie or create any kind of confusion. Others might have "reasons" to create things - I am not writing a book - I just am looking for answer where-ever I might find them.
So far NO one - not the FBI nor others - have been able to explain to me Duane Weber's interest and phenomenal knowledge of the area. (You have to have worked and lived there to know the area the way he did and with such detail). NOT one person has offered any explanation for this - NOT one.
I have in the past told about the other areas he mentioned on that trip, but did not go to. Spokane and a small area to the East of there called Coeur d'Alene
in Idaho. He told me about a hunting lodge somewhere in that area near or on an Indian Reservation.
He mentioned some areas on our little trip to the "airport" explaining and naming some small towns that would be along the road to Vancouver, Alaska. (We did not go far out of Seattle on this "short cut" before turning back). The one I remember his naming specifically is a hole in the ground called Nooksack. Perhaps that was because of the unusual name. He rattled off names I cannot even pronounce when I see it written - Indian names.
When I am presented with a factual and reasonable and prove-able reasons Duane knew the area the way he did and when he was there - then and only then will I back down - until then I will continue with my efforts until I can NO longer continue - that time is coming all to soon.
I am doing everything I can at this time for closure - things I have sworn I would never ever do. That is the part I regret, but I must do these things - not for Duane or proving he was Cooper - BUT, for me.
Emotional Exercise for posters:
Pretend you are a child 6 yrs of age - and you see your father kill a man, but at the time you didn't understand the man was dead. 30 yrs later you learn a body was found at that location and the killer was never known. You had moved from the area a couple of months after the incident.
Yrs later you relocate back to the area and an old cold case is discussed in the newpaper - and you remember when you were there with your father. What would you do? You had learned as you grew up your father was a cold and caculating man and he had been arrested several times.
Do you sit on that memory because he was your father or to you seek justice and closure for the victim and his family?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
georger 244
QuoteThis thread works on a number of delightful levels.
One is that it's a skydiving forum, and there's a historical cultural thing about skydivers making fun of non-skydivers.
But within this thread, skydivers have been woefully inadequate at pulling that off.
Sure, you can go snicker elsewhere, but you know in your heart that doesn't accomplish the intended goal.
Because this thread continues.
Beautiful. All attempts at control are thwarted.
The inherent beauty of the Internet. (and successful guerrilla campaigns)
United States Internet Usage, Broadband and Telecommunications ...Aug 19, 2009 ... Lower broadband penetration in rural areas is compounded by lower Internet usage overall. According to BBTI
stats internet usage has dropped which may reflect
a saturation point. Advertising and spam interference are partly to blame according to surveys. Specialized forums have seen a precipitous
drop due to spam posting. The survey continues ....
So what "internet" is it you are torking about?
The Internet as you describe it wont even be here
in another ten years, ..... or less! And corporations
and advertisers are spending billions/trillions accomodating to that fact, as I write.
What fucking cave are you in?
georger 244
So far NO one - not the FBI nor anyothers - have been able to explain to me Duane Weber's interest and phenomenal knowledge of the area. (You have to have worked and lived there to know the area the way he did and with such detail). NOT one person has offered any explanation for this - NOT one.
That even includes Duane's friends who knew him!
We have only Jo Weber's word your assertions
for Duane are true.
Provide us a list of towers and lights THAT WERE THERE IN 1971, not afterward!
Provide us a list of the dates Duane was in the
State f Washington? Actually spent time there.
Provide us a list of the dates and times Duane spent researching the Cooper story and the geography
of Washington from some place else, eg Virginia
Beach, Marietta GA, etc. What do his library cards
show?
What do your library cards show?
Lets cover one further fact: You made representations to others in Washington, not just Jerry. Did you forget about that?
Lastly: who are you trying to convince of what here?
Your machinations here will not further your case
one iota, so what is all of this stuff here you do?
Even if Duane knew WA like the back of his hand
that still does not prove Cooper was Duane, so what
has any of this to do with Cooper? Duane wasnt even in Washington on the day of the hijacking!
Let me remind you, it was COOPER who did this
hijacking, not you, not Duane Weber. Therefore, it
is COOPER who has to see, know, and take any advtanage of towers and lights, not you, not
Duane.
Nobody questions your patholpogical brilliance!
You have demonstrated that here very well. But
that does not mean Duane was also pathologically brilliant! It is perfectly clear you are foisting off on
Duane traits that are yours not Duanes. And you have done this with your whole case as if Duane
were YOU! Nobody who knew Duane says Duane
fits your profile for him.
You were not Cooper! Cooper was a man.
So while the issue of lights is interesting (and has
been mentioned here many times before) it only
applies to DAN COOPER, not to Duane, and certainly not to YOU standing in for Duane giving us a
profile for Duane which is actually a profile of
yourself!
Freud had you nailed a long time ago.
Thanks for your listing of towers and lights.
We will now apply that to the real Cooper case.
Keep up the good work!
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
snowmman 3
georger worriedly posted "So what "internet" is it you are torking about? "
Twitter. It's a rough draft for rumors.
Short attention span theatre.
You're in love with rational discourse?
Twitter. It's a rough draft for rumors.
Short attention span theatre.
You're in love with rational discourse?
snowmman 3
Georger intoned "The Internet as you describe it wont even be here in another ten years, ..... or less! And corporations
and advertisers are spending billions/trillions accomodating to that fact, as I write. "
I'm supposed to care about industry and advertisers?
why?
Be nice if they fail. Change is good.
Problem is: They won't fail!
So you're wrong Georger.
The thing to worry about, is loss of individualism..i.e. globalization.
Declare war!
(edit) What you're really worried about is the lower value of self-perceived experts.
Experts were never really as expert as they told us they were.
That's the problem! What is an individual's value add? What is georger's value add?
(edit) Let's talk about clicking on paid Google links.
Has anyone? Has it been worth it to you?
(edit) every year of the Internet is better. The problem is: it's not your definition of better! (I'm not sure what yours would be)
and advertisers are spending billions/trillions accomodating to that fact, as I write. "
I'm supposed to care about industry and advertisers?
why?
Be nice if they fail. Change is good.
Problem is: They won't fail!
So you're wrong Georger.
The thing to worry about, is loss of individualism..i.e. globalization.
Declare war!
(edit) What you're really worried about is the lower value of self-perceived experts.
Experts were never really as expert as they told us they were.
That's the problem! What is an individual's value add? What is georger's value add?
(edit) Let's talk about clicking on paid Google links.
Has anyone? Has it been worth it to you?
(edit) every year of the Internet is better. The problem is: it's not your definition of better! (I'm not sure what yours would be)
snowmman 3
QuoteQuoteI don't see how my posts are any less useful than others.
Let's compare.
Someone do a "good" post.
OK.
Larch Mountain (~3.4K foot) had antenna tower on it in 1980, and the tower had lights. I climbed it at the time to add an antenna while working for Vel Communications in Vancouver. IIRC, the Clark County SO repeaters were located there. It's ~10 miles E of Orchards.
Flash Earth view: http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=45.716972&lon=-122.295694&z=15&r=0&src=ggl
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larch_Mountain_(Clark_County,_Washington)
What has this got to do with Dan Cooper?
georger 244
QuoteGeorger intoned "The Internet as you describe it wont even be here
in another ten years, ..... or less! And corporations
and advertisers are spending billions/trillions accomodating to that fact, as I write. "
I'm supposed to care about industry and advertisers?
why?
Be nice if they fail. Change is good.
Problem is: They won't fail!
So you're wrong Georger.
The thing to worry about, is loss of individualism..i.e. globalization.
Declare war!
(edit) What you're really worried about is the lower value of self-perceived experts.
Experts were never really as expert as they told us they were.
That's the problem!
You're the primary user. Blah blah blah blah blah
Quote
Not one piece of fact has been produced in 15,000 posts.
So here is one: you are full of shit.
I see another post unsupported by any facts.
Make sure that you put on the same dress that
Jo wears when she posts.
1969912 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteI don't see how my posts are any less useful than others.
Let's compare.
Someone do a "good" post.
OK.
Larch Mountain (~3.4K foot) had antenna tower on it in 1980, and the tower had lights. I climbed it at the time to add an antenna while working for Vel Communications in Vancouver. IIRC, the Clark County SO repeaters were located there. It's ~10 miles E of Orchards.
Flash Earth view: http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=45.716972&lon=-122.295694&z=15&r=0&src=ggl
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larch_Mountain_(Clark_County,_Washington)
What has this got to do with Dan Cooper?
377 was asking about lights on peaks near the flight route, IIRC. So was Jo.
"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG
An you my friend are Nuttier than a Fruitcake.
P.S. Emory cloths where used yrs ago by criminals to smooth off their prints making them more difficult for law enforcement to lift them or read them....I never really knew how this might help a criminal. Duane was the one who told me about how criminals used emory cloth. A cloth that somehow incorporates fine gritty grains of something (asbestos, glass, sand or whatever).
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