DB Cooper

[snowmman 3]

from http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cosuAAAAIBAJ&sjid=qocFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1352,4233859&hl=en

he talked about being bummed that there would be no reward...and that

"If all this fame came with a little fortune, I would talk to everyone in the world about this story."

"He abruptly ended the interview minutes later, turning his eyes to the television set saying "If you don't mind, I've waited five years to see this movie (The Exorcist) on television."


it's true. go and mouse right to the end of the article at the link above.

377 was joking about talking with the dead. I think Ingram may have talked to a dead Cooper?

[georger 244]

Quote

Google News archive is getting more newspapers as time goes by
From the Eugen Register-Guard Feb 13, 1980 which was fairly local, it was a big story when the money was found

They name the agent in chage of the beach search.

"Special Agent Dorwyn Schreuder, in charge of the beach search, said some fragments were found as deep as three feet below the surface"

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=6JYzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1OEDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6753,3479620&dq=db+cooper+found&hl=en

The dredging from August 1974 (interesting the date was named early) was highlighted very quickly also ..see here:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cosuAAAAIBAJ&sjid=qocFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1330,4257079&dq=db+cooper+found&hl=en

They quote a local "I betcha that dredging brought money up and most of it's been destroyed by the dredging"

I went thru the court case about the sand that was deposited on the opposite side of the river in 1974.

It's interesting to think if some stuff could have been deposited on the other side of the river by the dredge (where people don't go).

In terms of what else was dug up (we've discussed this before

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=bE80AAAAIBAJ&sjid=zWcEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3075,5986874&dq=db+cooper+found&hl=en
"One agent at the site said he dug up a formless fist-size clump of money he described as "a wadded up bunch of $20 bills"

In fact, this article is the best for calling out that FBI agents found more. On Feb 14,1980 it says:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ga4yAAAAIBAJ&sjid=fe4FAAAAIBAJ&pg=6963,3065970&dq=db+cooper+found&hl=en


FBI agents found wadded up $20 bills on Wednesday in muck dredged from the Columbia River six years ago and said the money was part of the $200,000 ransom collected in 1971 by D.B Cooper.."

"The first money from Cooper's haul was found Sunday on a sandy beach ..by children on a family outing..."

"FBI agent Ralph Himmelsbach said more money was dug up by agents on Tuesday afternoon and Wednesday morning"

I think we've been hoodwinked about the money find for a long time. Ckret never acknowledged all this extra crap money that was found.

I'm more and more confident about the money being thrown up by the dredge.

I think Palmer was right about clay layers from dredging. I think he was wrong in saying any money would have to show up in some single monolithic layer he could identify, and that sand above that layer, was not from dredging.

It sure seems like at the time of the money find, the FBI agents didn't have the flight path map.

The 2nd and 4th urls above go nowhere -

[Orange1 0]

If -- there was more money found by the FBI and if -- there was indeed a lot more destroyed by dredging - then the argument becomes a very different one; it starts sounding like most or all, rather than just a bit, of the money landed in the river.
377 thinks Ckret has been holding something back to test for the true Cooper. Maybe this is it. Maybe this is why he thinks Cooper died. Or maybe this is why stories about people who suddenly seemed to have a lot more disposable income didn't sway him.

This is an possibility I think we have mentioned: Cooper survived, but lost the money. Without the money, he returned to normal life in his normal way. Nothing for anyone to notice - no new big spending, no disappearing to Mexico, etc.

Talking of which, Cooper originally wanted to go to Mexico, right? Who's to say he didn't? Also a nice place to launder dollars, should he have (a) survived, (b) kept the money and (c) gone there.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

georger said:
The 2nd and 4th urls above go nowhere -

I tried clicking on them again, without any edits and they worked fine for me. Can everyone else get to them?

(edit) I attached the 3rd. will try the 2nd/4th
I can't imagine why not. But if you try again and it doesn't work I'll try attaching jpgs. Jpgs are a pain because of the size of articles and the need to compress for size but still be able to read the print. This one has small print because of it's width. Best to download and zoom to read.

(edit) I attached the 2nd. It has the photo we've already posted of the screen and backhoe they used. The photo here isn't as high quality as before though. It's a rare photo. You don't see it much.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

If -- there was more money found by the FBI and if -- there was indeed a lot more destroyed by dredging - then the argument becomes a very different one; it starts sounding like most or all, rather than just a bit, of the money landed in the river.
377 thinks Ckret has been holding something back to test for the true Cooper. Maybe this is it. Maybe this is why he thinks Cooper died. Or maybe this is why stories about people who suddenly seemed to have a lot more disposable income didn't sway him.

This is an possibility I think we have mentioned: Cooper survived, but lost the money. Without the money, he returned to normal life in his normal way. Nothing for anyone to notice - no new big spending, no disappearing to Mexico, etc.

Talking of which, Cooper originally wanted to go to Mexico, right? Who's to say he didn't? Also a nice place to launder dollars, should he have (a) survived, (b) kept the money and (c) gone there.

Orange1: what you say makes sense.
But if you read all the articles about the money find, my impression is that right away Himmelsbach and others moved to this idea of money moving down streams, and how it couldn't have been the dredging because of what palmer said...and I think they just conveniently forgot or didn't document properly the other money finds.

So a lot of mistaken theorizing, is just because of bad information, and bad initial deductions that got carried forward.

They very quickly started mentioning the Washougal for no good reason.

In fact, Himmelsbach mentioned his theory abou the edges being rounded due to wear "like sandpaper" on rocks and the bottom of streams very early. It's a totally bogus idea for how the bills ended up being rounded.

to get a nice group of 30 or so, here's the google news search. Some are repetitive AP stuff. The best are ones close to Portland.

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=db+cooper+money+found&scoring=a&hl=en&ned=us&um=1&sa=N&cid=4354250729586711

I think they also couldn't let go of their "calculations" that made them say Cooper jumped in the woods by Lake Merwin.

[377 22]

Sure beginning to look like all the money ended up in the river and was dredged up. I still cling to the fantasy that Cooper survived but I must admit that is less likely than a drowning given the money's fate.

OK, so assume he drowned. How the hell did nobody miss him and connect the dots?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Sure beginning to look like all the money ended up in the river and was dredged up. I still cling to the fantasy that Cooper survived but I must admit that is less likely than a drowning given the money's fate.

OK, so assume he drowned. How the hell did nobody miss him and connect the dots?

377

Before that seems "odd". ...how often does it happen every year? I suspect a lot.

I was surprised to read that 11,000 people died of swine flu in the US.

Millions of people make it easy to get a case of one, or 11,000 swine flu deaths. (who are we going to invade because of this swine flu terrorism?)

(edit) Note the news articles are like within a day of what's happening at the money find site, and the authors seem to be talking to both Himmelsbach and people actually digging at the site.

And Bruce interviewed that one FBI agent who was actually at the dig site (we found his name from his book detailing his FBI life)...and that guy said he found a piece.

(edit) I can't imagine how Jo still thinks her idea about Duane throwing the money into the Columbia in 1980 still makes sense.
Or how anyone could bother listening to her story nowadays?

It's possible the post-1971 published book, and it's connection, overrides any issues about the money..i.e. maybe Jo was wrong guessing Duane threw the money into the Columbia, and Duane actually lost it in the Columbia in 1971..yeah that's what happened.

Luckily he was able to save the books...uh because they weren't in the money bag, they were in his pockets. (along with ticket)

just details. Don't worry about the technical stuff. Duane was Cooper.

(edit) also messes up Gossett story.

[snowmman 3]

I like seeing what Google prefills when I start typing a search.
It tells me what other people are searching for, typing in.

Weirdly, when I typed "missing persons" among the prefill choices was "in Nome, Alaska"

So I searched on that. Apparently there is something weird going on with missing persons in Nome, Alaska.

example:
http://www.rlnn.com/ArtNov05/UnsolvedCasesNomeAttractFBI.html

FBI serial homicide experts have been called in to investigate a chain of disappearances and suspicious deaths of Native villagers visiting Nome.

The cases date back to the 1960s, with 10 since 1990. The victims were mostly Native men who had traveled to the Seward Peninsula's commercial hub from smaller villages of the Bering Strait region.

A prominent Native organization in Nome last week released a list of 20 such suspicious cases, along with offers of a reward, in an effort to get help from the public.

Whispers that danger awaits travelers on the streets of Nome have circulated in the region's Inupiat and Siberian Yupik villages for years. The accounts of missing cousins and in-laws have been colored by allegations of police indifference and even hostility toward visiting Natives, especially those who pass through the bars on Front Street.

But no official investigation ever was launched until earlier this year, when the region's Native community was galvanized by the sensational murder trial of a Nome police officer who stood accused of killing a young village woman.
...
For many years, Native villagers have been warned not to venture out alone when they go to Nome, Seward Peninsula residents say.

Myra Henry of Koyuk has organized two Missing People marches in recent years down Front Street to call attention to the problem. She got involved after her brother-in-law, Archie Henry Jr., disappeared on a 1998 Permanent Fund shopping trip to Nome. For a year, she called the Nome police daily, turning up several potential witnesses herself. But the case never went anywhere.

"The seven years has been very difficult for us, not knowing what happened," she said.

She also lost a cousin, Ernest "Sonnyboy" Saccheus of Elim. He disappeared in Nome in 1987, on a stopover coming home from Anchorage, after leaving his hotel to get a few drinks.

Apatiki's disappearance in October 2004 fit the pattern.


There's a movie "The Fourth Kind" that is tying the real life disappearances with UFOs/aliens

"The name of Dr. Abigail Tyler is not new to the residents of a small town in Alaska, Nome. However the renewed interest that the movie “The Fourth Kind” has generated in Dr. Abigail Tyler is not only new to the residents of Nome, Alaska, it is also disturbing. The film has been released on 6th November. The Fourth Kind is filmed in documentary style, amalgamating the real footage with the dramatization.

The marketing of the film has been undertaken with the concept that UFOs are real and there is no exaggeration involved in the story. Nome residents are calling authorities to confirm the facts people are searching Dr. Abigail Tyler of Nome Alaska on the internet, all of this pointing to the near life quality of the film.

As the film starts actress Jovovich announces that she is playing the part of Dr. Abigail Tyler giving the validity to the events being shown. “The Fourth Kind” refers to events where living human beings have been abducted by the aliens. Dr. Tyler herself was psychologist and my gut feeling is that she could not have been deceived so easily despite all the hue and cry made by the government and the FBI that there is no proof of what Dr. Abigail Tyler has suggested.

As FBI failed to find any link between the missing person from Nome Alaska and the aliens, Dr. Abigail Tyler interviewed disturbed and shocked patients and discovered some of the most compelling evidence that there was something metaphysical going on. During the whole duration of the film actual footage and dramatization of the events definitely give credence to the happenings."

[snowmman 3]

I firmly believe Cooper may have been connected to Nome, Alaska and the cow mutilations at the Fazio's are strong evidence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVRHOhLP-aA


1n 1972, a scale of measurement was established for alien encounters. When a UFO is sighted, it is called an encounter of the first kind.

When evidence is collected, it is known as an encounter of the second kind.

When contact is made with extraterrestrials, it is the third kind.

The next level, abduction, is the fourth kind.

This encounter has been the most difficult to document-until now.

Set in modern-day Nome, Alaska, where--mysteriously since the 1960s--a disproportionate number of the population has been reported missing every year.

Despite multiple FBI investigations of the region, the truth has never been discovered. Here in this remote region, psychologist Dr. Abigail Tyler began videotaping sessions with traumatized patients and unwittingly discovered some of the most disturbing evidence of alien abduction ever documented.

[snowmman 3]

I guess this is obvious, but if the money landed in the Columbia, even if separated, it dramatically increases the likelihood Cooper did also. Especially if no-pull. The max distance between ground landing, assume cooper exited with the money, is probably similar to the width of the Columbia? (< than)

In the direction of flow, if money and cooper were separated in that direction, it's 100% likely then both would be in the water. If separated in the directions towards shore, it ends up maybe 50% likely or so (depending on how much separation you think is possible)

[snowmman 3]

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20318458,00.html

"Still, when the FBI stepped in and investigated two dozen of the cases, the agency determined that alcohol consumption and the town's harsh climate were the actual causes of people falling off the map.

In some instances, missing persons are thought to have stumbled off a jetty and drowned in the freezing waters of the Snake River."

If they drowned in the Snake River, how come the bodies were never found?

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Sure beginning to look like all the money ended up in the river and was dredged up. I still cling to the fantasy that Cooper survived but I must admit that is less likely than a drowning given the money's fate.

OK, so assume he drowned. How the hell did nobody miss him and connect the dots?

377

If the money bag got separated, doesn't mean he drowned.
And if no-one connected the dots...well, I have discovered that there seem to be a lot of people clueless about what's going on in the news, and that was probably even more true in pre-internet days.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

Orange1:
I'm not sure it's just "cluelessness"

There's an element of what people want to believe.

If you have a vacuum, people will fill it with what they need.

That's really why the Cooper story will always live. The story is more important than the reality.

And it's not a matter of intellectual firepower.

You can see people who argue "science" have their own needs they want to fill the vacuum with.

(edit) The DBC thread here has been more about attacking other folks, than anything else.
That's not jumper specific, but I do notice on other threads there seems to be a need to attack folks. I noticed someone posted an accident report, and right away people were jumping on them..
WTF? It's like the skydiving community is trying to force people to act and think in a certain way.

I think that makes sense though. It sounds like, because of the numbers, that loads have to operate in concert. So less individual behavior can be tolerated...cause of collisions etc.

[1969912 0]

Quote

I know a Jim Van Buren.
He looks (or at least used to) somewhat like a gorilla and was involved with a gorilla enclosure issue at one point in time. He was married but got divorced.
He's a southern boy

Does he jump?

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Quote

I know a Jim Van Buren.
He looks (or at least used to) somewhat like a gorilla and was involved with a gorilla enclosure issue at one point in time. He was married but got divorced.
He's a southern boy

Does he jump?

seems suspicious. lines of some kind are out, so the guy just landed? It's at night and in someone's backyard. The grass seems damp/wet. What year is this from? 1971?

[georger 244]

Quote

Quote

georger said:
The 2nd and 4th urls above go nowhere -

I tried clicking on them again, without any edits and they worked fine for me. Can everyone else get to them?

(edit) I attached the 3rd. will try the 2nd/4th
I can't imagine why not. But if you try again and it doesn't work I'll try attaching jpgs. Jpgs are a pain because of the size of articles and the need to compress for size but still be able to read the print. This one has small print because of it's width. Best to download and zoom to read.

(edit) I attached the 2nd. It has the photo we've already posted of the screen and backhoe they used. The photo here isn't as high quality as before though. It's a rare photo. You don't see it much.

I got them. Thanks.

[georger 244]

Quote

Quote

If -- there was more money found by the FBI and if -- there was indeed a lot more destroyed by dredging - then the argument becomes a very different one; it starts sounding like most or all, rather than just a bit, of the money landed in the river.
377 thinks Ckret has been holding something back to test for the true Cooper. Maybe this is it. Maybe this is why he thinks Cooper died. Or maybe this is why stories about people who suddenly seemed to have a lot more disposable income didn't sway him.

This is an possibility I think we have mentioned: Cooper survived, but lost the money. Without the money, he returned to normal life in his normal way. Nothing for anyone to notice - no new big spending, no disappearing to Mexico, etc.

Talking of which, Cooper originally wanted to go to Mexico, right? Who's to say he didn't? Also a nice place to launder dollars, should he have (a) survived, (b) kept the money and (c) gone there.

Orange1: what you say makes sense.
But if you read all the articles about the money find, my impression is that right away Himmelsbach and others moved to this idea of money moving down streams, and how it couldn't have been the dredging because of what palmer said...and I think they just conveniently forgot or didn't document properly the other money finds.

So a lot of mistaken theorizing, is just because of bad information, and bad initial deductions that got carried forward.

They very quickly started mentioning the Washougal for no good reason.

In fact, Himmelsbach mentioned his theory abou the edges being rounded due to wear "like sandpaper" on rocks and the bottom of streams very early. It's a totally bogus idea for how the bills ended up being rounded.

to get a nice group of 30 or so, here's the google news search. Some are repetitive AP stuff. The best are ones close to Portland.

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=db+cooper+money+found&scoring=a&hl=en&ned=us&um=1&sa=N&cid=4354250729586711

I think they also couldn't let go of their "calculations" that made them say Cooper jumped in the woods by Lake Merwin.

Just a few thoughts: The money container may be crucial. The FBI guys talk enclosed container or bag
to explain the fact of fragments and the state of the frags while Tina clearly said:

"After cutting up a parachute, he emptied the sack of loot and began stuffing $20 bills into his makeshift waist pack.
When Mucklow expressed astonishment at the huge pile of money, Cooper reached over and handed her a stack of bills.
"We can't take tips,'' she said."

"Makeshift waist pack" VRS "Bag-container". There is a huge difference in terms of protection for the
money and keeping the money together as a group.
Otherwise everything at T_Bar is just part of the money ... one FBI guy even says 'what was found at Tina Bar was just the central part of the money and
the rest and bag had rolled and weathered away'.
The FBI guys say "rolling" is fundamental to understanding the money.

Tina's account also explains why the FBI finger printed the money found - because they know Cooper handled the money as per Tina's account!

___ The FBI fragment guys seem to be saying
the money came on to Tina Bar with the dredge material and Palmer was just wrong ...

___ How does the money get snagged right off Tina
Bar of all places to come with dredging? Did Cooper
auger in to the Columbia straight to the bottom right
near Tina Bar, that dredging two years later then brings the money (and nothing else!) up?

___ Any washdown theory which puts the money snagged off Tina Bar vrs a million other possible places has to account for what snagged the money at Tina Bar vrs other places ?

___ Money found in Feb 1980. Everyone struggling to explain how the money got to Tina Bar. H retires Feb 1980. H retirement party c. Feb 1980 at which time he is told for the first time, they flew EAST! Prior to
this and the money find the Washougal had never been metioned? The Washougal is brought up because there is no other way to explain money being at Tina Bar that is 'consistent' with the new facts. This means a lot of experts were wrong!
Computer geeks were wrong! Rat had not spoken yet but obviously agreed with Scott! The FBI had not re-interviewed Scott and Rat during the years!

@@@ If a cigarette butt with Cooper's dna had been found at Tina Bar would we say the Washougal put that there!? We might as well.

How about his shoes? via the Washougal if found at T-Bar?

How about his footprints? via the Washougal if found at T_Bar?

How far are we willing to go to keep The Washougal?










___

[snowmman 3]

georger said "
___ The FBI fragment guys seem to be saying
the money came on to Tina Bar with the dredge material and Palmer was just wrong ... "

I think it's more correct to say "The FBI thought about the dredge issue right away. They talked to the dredge guys and decided it wasn't possible"

But Tosaw talked to dredge guy, and got dredge size (30") and got the opposite opinion.

People claim the dredge is nasty and it can't happen. They also seem to be not insightful about how money can stick together, especially if rotted together and wet.

So, even though the fragments suggest dredge, the 3 "bundles" (even though they are stuck together and in sad shape) made the FBI say "no dredge". I think that's just incorrect.

note also, that the dredge implies the money was well protected up until it arrived on Tena Bar (sand plus water cover)....and probable sand cover on Tena Bar.

Better than any cotton bag! (for UV/oxygen etc..also it's cold! and likely fewer insects than if it was on the surface of the ground!

The insect damage to the money probably didn't happen till it arrived on Tena Bar.

We need Bruce to interview the dredge guys.

[snowmman 3]

Not all of the dredging spoils went to Tena Bar.
Have people forgotten?

georger said "Did Cooper auger in to the Columbia straight to the bottom right near Tina Bar, that dredging two years later then brings the money (and nothing else!) up? "


So the idea that "nothing else" was brought up is just speculation. We just know some was found on Tena Bar.

Could have been brought up, but just not where someone would find it...opposite side of Columbia, say. Also, money and Cooper could have drifted (I posted on the rate of sand travel on the bottom of the Columbia...pretty high! which is why they need to dredge!)

I posted on the court case on the Reeder ranch (Hutchinson same? not sure if there are two sites that were used) early in the thread. The court case pdf is there. i'll attach it again) (Reeder v. Kay. 1978 case..see page 2...referencing 1974 events. I incorrectly said "McKay" back then)

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3257981;search_string=175%2C000%20yards;#3257981

I contacted someone who apparently knew the people.
I posted back in the thread:

I was asking him about info in a court case where it incidentally mentions that the Army Corps of Engineers dumped about 175,000 cubic yards of sand on about 20 acres of land in the Sauvie Island area in August 1974, rendering it useless for farming.


also see here
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3229648;search_string=dredge%20spoils%20court;#3229648

relevant quote I posted from the guy who lived on his boat by Caterpllar Island (from email, if I remember right, he contacted one of the Reeders at the RV resort for me)


The last dumping of dredging spoil on Reeder Beach was in the mid 1960s.

All of the 1974 sand on this side, went to Hutchinson Ranch and shortly after that, the environmentalists got into the picture and declared that the water, which ran off of the sand back into the river, was polluting the river, and the Corp of Engineers is no longer able to pump the spoil on to the riverbank. We are no longer able to restore the beach, even though the major flood of 1996 washed away over 150 feet of our beach frontage.


Reeder beach is associated with the camp/RV spot directly across the river from Tena Bar. Family that runs it is Reeder. Lots of Reeders have lived over there, over the years.

He said Hutchinson Ranch is about 1/2 mile south of Reeder Beach.

[snowmman 3]

If you find evidence near dredging spoils, you should look everywhere dredging spoils were dumped, from the same dredging operation.

As I say, the other side. But there were so many yards of sand (175,000) that I think it wouldn't matter. Just too much dispersal.

[snowmman 3]

I attached a snap from google earth showing the probable ranch/farm just south of Reeder beach that I'm talking about.

Sauvie Island is just behind reeder point to the west.

This ranch is on NW Reeder Rd.

[georger 244]

Quote

georger said "
___ The FBI fragment guys seem to be saying
the money came on to Tina Bar with the dredge material and Palmer was just wrong ... "

I think it's more correct to say "The FBI thought about the dredge issue right away. They talked to the dredge guys and decided it wasn't possible"

I dont think it was the dredge guys who talked
the FBI out of a dredge deposit, but Palmer -
unless the dredge folks provided measurements
which show the money find was somewhere else?

Leaving Palmer aside if you look at the frags
and the one bundle clump, isnt that exactly what
the dredge guys said would happen? Mostly bits
and pieces. So what was found during the
archaeological dig of Tina Bar? Lots of bits n
pieces plus one small bundle stuck together with
sediment found by Ingram. That sure sounds like what the dredge guys predicted should be found!

(The sediment type should have clinched this).

Tom Kaye says the money find location is
far away from any dredge deposit. Tom Kaye bases his measurements on measurements the dredge people originally provided, and on Ingram's memory. Jerry Thomas says "all of this was already known". Nobody will cough up the coordinates of
the find location! (That will cost $10,000,000 paid
to Tom Kaye?)

Why the fuck are Snow and I working for free!?

[georger 244]

Quote

If you find evidence near dredging spoils, you should look everywhere dredging spoils were dumped, from the same dredging operation.

As I say, the other side. But there were so many yards of sand (175,000) that I think it wouldn't matter. Just too much dispersal.

In this moment I believe we have now passed the idea the money came in 1978,79,80.

The total morphology of the money find (bundles +
frags + conditions revealed) select against a monolithic late deposition 1978-1980. The money
arrived earlier by some means unless there is contravening evidence.

This is progress!

Agree?

[snowmman 3]

ckret's statements on why "no dredge" were pretty weakly founded (I pressed him a lot on this)

here he based his thinking (like the FBI) and the so-called impermeable "dredge layer"..also I think the questioning of the dredge operator was poorly done. The wrong questions were asked.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3263422;search_string=dredge;guest=65699266#3263422

Actually the dredge information may be correct. where he went wrong is the dredge layer uncovered in 1980 was not disturbed, therefore, nothing under it would have been found. Also, the dredge operator/manager said no way the money could have gone through the pipe and not been destroyed.

Ckret also said this:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3229758;search_string=dredge;guest=65699266#3229758

The person who actually managed the operation in 74 was interviewed by agents after the find in 80. He is the one who gave comment about junk from the bottom being processed through the dredge. i'll go back and dredge up the interview. As i rememeber he gave the impression anything sent through, like bags of cash, would have been torn apart.

Note Ckret caveats "like bags of cash"
Well, no bags of cash made it thru, so the dredge operator was correct.

The wrong question was asked or at least posted. The question should have been about 3 wet bundles, rotted, stuck together, floppy, times say 70-100? of them. Would one wad of 3 bundles one get thru? Would fragments get created?

Ckret said my problem on Mar 31, 2008 was that I wasn't caught up. (unlike him? unlike who?)

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3169622;search_string=dredge;guest=65699266#3169622

Snowman, you seem like you are willing to get involved in the discussion and I am sure everyone is looking forward to your insight but you have to get caught up.

I am sure I posted in the very long discussion about the money that it could not have been part of the dredge because the type used had blades to break up the sediment into small pieces. According to the person managing the site the dredge would have destroyed the cash.

So, the theory is that the dredge renders all money into unrecognizable small pieces, smaller than what was found.

That's obvious B.S.
For all of Sluggo's rah-rah'ing around Ckret, Ckret's thoughts and actions were really no different than any FBI before him. No differences at all.

Here's a longer post Ckret made
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3029469;search_string=dredge;guest=65699266#3029469

Here's the scoop on the money. It was found in a area known as Tena's Bar which is just northwest Vancouver. The money was found 6 to 8 inches below the surface along the northern shore of the Columbia. This area was owned by the Fazio Brother's Farms.

The money was found with the rubber bands around the bundles. The rubber was described as very fragile.

The river in the area where the money was located had been dredged August 19 through the 25th, 1974. The dredge material was deposited on the banks of the Fazio Brothers farms and spread by front loaders.

A geology professor from Portland state studied the sediment from the location where the money was recovered. He determined the money could not have been deposited prior to the 1974 dredging operation. There was a clear delineation between the 2 sediment layers, pre 1974 and post 1974.

Had Cooper buried the money the night he jumped it would have been several feet below the 1974 dredged material and found in a different type of sediment then what it was discovered in.

The most likely scenario provided was that the 1977 Washougal River flood started the package of money on its journey from where it landed in 1971 towards the Columbia. Over time the bag and cords holding it together broke apart releasing the bundles of money.

Because it had been in the bag, the money had not began to disintegrate. Once out of the bag the money began it's slow rot, eventually making it into the Columbia sometime around late 1978 early 1979.

Once in the Columbia, the bundles began drifting down stream. It would have taken 14.7 hours for the bundles (if unobstructed) to make it to Tena's Bar, where 3 bundles washed up. Once on shore the money was covered over by sand, which acted as a natural preservative, leaving what was left intact until it's discovery four to 12 months later.

[snowmman 3]

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If you find evidence near dredging spoils, you should look everywhere dredging spoils were dumped, from the same dredging operation.

As I say, the other side. But there were so many yards of sand (175,000) that I think it wouldn't matter. Just too much dispersal.

In this moment I believe we have now passed the idea the money came in 1978,79,80.

The total morphology of the money find (bundles +
frags + conditions revealed) select against a monolithic late deposition 1978-1980. The money
arrived earlier by some means unless there is contravening evidence.

This is progress!

Agree?

Sure, I agree.