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Sluggo said:
QuoteIn conversations I have had with 377, he has stated many times that snowmman seems to have two distinct personalities. (I don’t mean in the psychological “multiple-personality” sense, but in the character of his social interactions.) I verified this by reading through a few other forums (or is it “fora”) snowmman frequents or has frequented. WOW! He is a different person. If given a bunch of posts from DZ.com and other forums and asked to sort them to determine how many individuals were making the posts, the number would be two. Even the earliest post to DZ.com (before he had time to dislike anyone) are of a different character from his post elsewhere.
Jo Replies:
Sluggo this was my feeling and I didn't think it was 2 personalities but 2 different people posting. In the beginning he was extremely helpful and polite - but then it became - overbearing and dominating. Again he toned down and contributed - helpful and informative information we might never have found with out his assistance.
This last time he went bananas and if you tried to get him to chill out - it seemed to cause him to banter (basically way beyond polite disagreement) out of control. I am sorry to see him go because he had so much to contribute to the forum - other than very bad manners or an ego that just was out of control.
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Sluggo says:
QuoteSome of you may be aware that there have been some changes in the attitude of the FBI about releasing NORJAK information to the public and seeking “citizen input.”
Jo Replies:
The issues on the public information are getting ready to make a big change - if you care to call me about this - please do, but is not something I will air in the forum. Because you are into Geo-caching - this little experiment is right down your alley - I just wish I could be in WA when this happens, but without anyone knowing who I am.
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Sluggo states:
QuoteAll-in-all, I think life in the NORJAK world sucks!
It is going to get VERY interesting very soon! I promise!.It is not Weber specific - mostly about Cooper and what happened on that night. NO it is not a Movie - NO it is not a book - NO it is not a TV program - NO it is not New or Media related - NO it has nothing to do with the FBI! It should be fun!
Remember that most of the people who could possibly have had some contact with Cooper on his level are in their mid to late 80's?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
georger 244
QuoteJerry Thomas
I'm confused. At 83 my mind is a bit addled, but in 1995 I was in Nagano on my way to Hong Kong. I made this jump in China August 1997. According to Zhang Angang, head areo sports coach at Beijing Aero Sports School at Baishan, Changping province I was the oldest man to make a parachute jump in China. The article headed The Pensioner Plunges was published in the Beijing Weekly, August 22-24, 1997. So that means that we met in Hong Kong or possibly Nagano, Japan. I truly can't remember meeting you. I'm sorry.
Sheridan (Pete) Peterson
Sheridan I am Georger. I have a simple question
or two:
Where were you during the Cooper Hijacking
Novem,ber 24, 1971?
Have you ever lived or worked in Washington?
Were you investigated as being Cooper and
what's that all about?
Thanks,
Georger
Hey Sheridan, I'm hangdiver, don't feel alone about being confused. Jerry thought he knew me. Nice to hear from you again.
Thanks for your contributions to social and political awareness.
Also thank you for blazing the way for all skydivers that came after you.
Georger railed on me for bothering you with the request for some skydiving history/stories and now he himself is demanding answers from you about your whereabouts during the Cooper thing. Some people have no shame.
Blue Skies
"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan
Thanks for your contributions to social and political awareness.
Also thank you for blazing the way for all skydivers that came after you.
Georger railed on me for bothering you with the request for some skydiving history/stories and now he himself is demanding answers from you about your whereabouts during the Cooper thing. Some people have no shame.
Blue Skies
"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan
georger 244
QuoteHey Sheridan, I'm hangdiver, don't feel alone about being confused. Jerry thought he knew me. Nice to hear from you again.
Thanks for your contributions to social and political awareness.
Also thank you for blazing the way for all skydivers that came after you.
Georger railed on me for bothering you with the request for some skydiving history/stories and now he himself is demanding answers from you about your whereabouts during the Cooper thing. Some people have no shame.
Blue Skies
This is too stupid to even reply to -
But this is a thread for very stupid people -
Keep up the good work!
PEACE & LOVE!
Farflung 0
The very nature of research makes for a frustrating experience in the best of environments.
History compliments this dis-service by being written in a linear, easy to digest format that still baffles the average person.
The weather was 'bad' on Thanksgiving eve for example. This conjures up hundreds of visions based upon a persons experience with 'bad weather'. In International Falls, MN that may have to include zero visibility, temps deep into double digits below 0 degrees F and 30 knot winds. Palm Springs, CA may define bad weather as conditions which require light to moderate hair spray to maintain the mid morning coiffing.
Research would require, 9:00 PM PST, 37 degrees F, light precip in the form of rain, less than 0.5 inches in the past 24 hours, surface winds (PDX) 220/15 G30, broken overcast, etc.
From the preceding baseline of information 'Charlie' a person could attempt to model....whatever. But kindly reference your work as in the WX report from 9 PM that evening.
The much, much, much more common approach is to arrive with a solution looking for a problem to solve. Examples are plentiful on the higher numbered cable channels late into the night. Combination spoon/strainers, mechanical egg crackers and fully automatic salad guns capable of producing enough roughage for the crew of an aircraft carrier in mere seconds are but a few examples of this approach.
D B Cooper has been no exception. MY suspect (show ownership, always) is D B Cooper because.....(fill with anything, because it does not matter).......and here is the proof (validation about what did not matter in the first place)....and here is were I found differing reports (these will ALWAYS fill the holes in the initial logic filters).....but the government is too stupid or crooked to do anything (cover story for why this information is ignored). Perhaps there has been some different approaches in the past, I'm too thick to find any examples.
I have worked many years in R&D and think the name should be changed to F&R (fail and return) because that is what you will spend 99.99999% of your time cataloging then moving on to the next probability or possibility. Anyone that claims they discovered something in a dream, on their first attempt or as a non-accident is probably a liar or will admit to being the Emperor of Bakersfield in due time.
Open forums are as valuable as any club without admissions (training, dues, certification). What is the $35,000 initiation fee really for? To make sure the members won't have to suffer around those of lower incomes. Ham radio requires licensing and federal oversight to make sure the airwaves are not jammed with endless, unintelligible babel or wide band jamming. If you want to do that......well, that's what the internet is for and the output should not surprise anyone who is aware if the input.
History compliments this dis-service by being written in a linear, easy to digest format that still baffles the average person.
The weather was 'bad' on Thanksgiving eve for example. This conjures up hundreds of visions based upon a persons experience with 'bad weather'. In International Falls, MN that may have to include zero visibility, temps deep into double digits below 0 degrees F and 30 knot winds. Palm Springs, CA may define bad weather as conditions which require light to moderate hair spray to maintain the mid morning coiffing.
Research would require, 9:00 PM PST, 37 degrees F, light precip in the form of rain, less than 0.5 inches in the past 24 hours, surface winds (PDX) 220/15 G30, broken overcast, etc.
From the preceding baseline of information 'Charlie' a person could attempt to model....whatever. But kindly reference your work as in the WX report from 9 PM that evening.
The much, much, much more common approach is to arrive with a solution looking for a problem to solve. Examples are plentiful on the higher numbered cable channels late into the night. Combination spoon/strainers, mechanical egg crackers and fully automatic salad guns capable of producing enough roughage for the crew of an aircraft carrier in mere seconds are but a few examples of this approach.
D B Cooper has been no exception. MY suspect (show ownership, always) is D B Cooper because.....(fill with anything, because it does not matter).......and here is the proof (validation about what did not matter in the first place)....and here is were I found differing reports (these will ALWAYS fill the holes in the initial logic filters).....but the government is too stupid or crooked to do anything (cover story for why this information is ignored). Perhaps there has been some different approaches in the past, I'm too thick to find any examples.
I have worked many years in R&D and think the name should be changed to F&R (fail and return) because that is what you will spend 99.99999% of your time cataloging then moving on to the next probability or possibility. Anyone that claims they discovered something in a dream, on their first attempt or as a non-accident is probably a liar or will admit to being the Emperor of Bakersfield in due time.
Open forums are as valuable as any club without admissions (training, dues, certification). What is the $35,000 initiation fee really for? To make sure the members won't have to suffer around those of lower incomes. Ham radio requires licensing and federal oversight to make sure the airwaves are not jammed with endless, unintelligible babel or wide band jamming. If you want to do that......well, that's what the internet is for and the output should not surprise anyone who is aware if the input.
georger 244
QuoteThe very nature of research makes for a frustrating experience in the best of environments.
History compliments this dis-service by being written in a linear, easy to digest format that still baffles the average person.
The weather was 'bad' on Thanksgiving eve for example. This conjures up hundreds of visions based upon a persons experience with 'bad weather'. In International Falls, MN that may have to include zero visibility, temps deep into double digits below 0 degrees F and 30 knot winds. Palm Springs, CA may define bad weather as conditions which require light to moderate hair spray to maintain the mid morning coiffing.
Research would require, 9:00 PM PST, 37 degrees F, light precip in the form of rain, less than 0.5 inches in the past 24 hours, surface winds (PDX) 220/15 G30, broken overcast, etc.
From the preceding baseline of information 'Charlie' a person could attempt to model....whatever. But kindly reference your work as in the WX report from 9 PM that evening.
The much, much, much more common approach is to arrive with a solution looking for a problem to solve. Examples are plentiful on the higher numbered cable channels late into the night. Combination spoon/strainers, mechanical egg crackers and fully automatic salad guns capable of producing enough roughage for the crew of an aircraft carrier in mere seconds are but a few examples of this approach.
D B Cooper has been no exception. MY suspect (show ownership, always) is D B Cooper because.....(fill with anything, because it does not matter).......and here is the proof (validation about what did not matter in the first place)....and here is were I found differing reports (these will ALWAYS fill the holes in the initial logic filters).....but the government is too stupid or crooked to do anything (cover story for why this information is ignored). Perhaps there has been some different approaches in the past, I'm too thick to find any examples.
I have worked many years in R&D and think the name should be changed to F&R (fail and return) because that is what you will spend 99.99999% of your time cataloging then moving on to the next probability or possibility. Anyone that claims they discovered something in a dream, on their first attempt or as a non-accident is probably a liar or will admit to being the Emperor of Bakersfield in due time.
Open forums are as valuable as any club without admissions (training, dues, certification). What is the $35,000 initiation fee really for? To make sure the members won't have to suffer around those of lower incomes. Ham radio requires licensing and federal oversight to make sure the airwaves are not jammed with endless, unintelligible babel or wide band jamming. If you want to do that......well, that's what the internet is for and the output should not surprise anyone who is aware if the input.
well said. well done. I like Clamato! My dog likes Clamto! My cats will slurp Clamato. The cyotes absolutely love the stuff... nuff said.
There were no charts for 9:00pm that I am aware
of. Just 6am and 6pm. Maybe somebody had a
9:00pm chart or prediction Im unaware of. I guess somebody did or you wouldnt be using that? But,
the NWS charts for 6:00pm were pretty specific.
Cook and I have been discussing this over at
Sluggo's forum and I think Galen has this pretty
well nailed. I am sure Soderlind and his group had
it pretty well nailed, ie. their NWA probability chart.
As Cook points out, everything is very consistent with Bohan's report. Now whether Cooper was affected by "that local weather pattern" is another
matter entirely. If Jerry & H are correct, Cooper was
not affected and that makes the NWA probability map more nearly correct, at least in a general sense.
To quote one researcher who has never been named in this regard: "The people who considered this (at
NWA and elsewhere) were very smart people. They
had the best data available. Cooper may have bailed and landed near Merwin Lake after all. The
money at Tina Bar may have come from the Lewis River by a means yet to be explained."
The Washougal washdown via the flood of 1977
is the more plausable scenario.
Another twist to this story may be: the FBI never
had all of the data which would have been useful
in sorting this matter out. The public assumes the FBI was in control and had/has all of the data but
I have very sound reasons to suspect that was never the case. So far as I can tell it may not have been
the FBI assembling and evaluating the "data" but
others.
In order to model an even you need data. If the
FBI doesnt have the data how can they model anything? And anything the public does is pure
speculation based on scanty evidence and rumor.
I have always felt the FBI was in one hell of a negative position and disadvantaged from the start. They did a massive sweep complimented by others
in LE, agencies,etc etc etc and still nothing firm
connected to identify Cooper or any other firm
evidence in this case. Taken at face value you
would almost be forced to say 'there was nothing to find'.
There are just some mysteries you have to put behind you and move on - as difficult as that is
for 'some' to do.
Farflung 0
georger,
In deference to your use and consumption of Clamato I found another anachronistic invention which baffles me to an even greater degree than the commercial pre-mixing of tomato and clam juices.
That being the Coleman portable (not mobile) toilet which boasts utility 'on long car trips'. Car trips?!?? Not van or campers but cars. Although it would probably be a rush to use while elevated in the seat and surrounded by glass. The very thought of a vacation so tightly scheduled that an extra toilet break would be of too great an impact, holds less appeal than traveling with the half filled device in the first place.
The engineering department at Coleman found some wisdom in designing the 'privy' with a 2.8 gallon 'holding' tank combined with a 3.2 gallon (???) fresh water tank. My skill in physics is pretty limited and geometry even worse but I'll give it a try.
A 2.8 gallon holding tank (1) is 0.4 gallons smaller than the 3.2 gallon water supply (a). Toilets are generally used to deposit and transfer 'material of limited value' (2) and would have some volume greater than zero (b).
OK then, a-1=0.4 gallons surplus water which will flow out of the portable toilet +b (the volume of the final variable).
How can I solve for number (2)?
If that isn't strange enough, this convenience also has accessories. Coleman part number 827-231T is a package of seat protectors for your portable loo. After all, you never know who's used it before and men are notorious for leaving the seat up. Better safe than sorry, so stock up and stay sanitary.
That reminds me, I forgot to consider seat protectors and TP in the above equation so that would factor in with 2 sub b. Or is this making things too complicated? 2b or not 2b, that is the question.
In deference to your use and consumption of Clamato I found another anachronistic invention which baffles me to an even greater degree than the commercial pre-mixing of tomato and clam juices.
That being the Coleman portable (not mobile) toilet which boasts utility 'on long car trips'. Car trips?!?? Not van or campers but cars. Although it would probably be a rush to use while elevated in the seat and surrounded by glass. The very thought of a vacation so tightly scheduled that an extra toilet break would be of too great an impact, holds less appeal than traveling with the half filled device in the first place.
The engineering department at Coleman found some wisdom in designing the 'privy' with a 2.8 gallon 'holding' tank combined with a 3.2 gallon (???) fresh water tank. My skill in physics is pretty limited and geometry even worse but I'll give it a try.
A 2.8 gallon holding tank (1) is 0.4 gallons smaller than the 3.2 gallon water supply (a). Toilets are generally used to deposit and transfer 'material of limited value' (2) and would have some volume greater than zero (b).
OK then, a-1=0.4 gallons surplus water which will flow out of the portable toilet +b (the volume of the final variable).
How can I solve for number (2)?
If that isn't strange enough, this convenience also has accessories. Coleman part number 827-231T is a package of seat protectors for your portable loo. After all, you never know who's used it before and men are notorious for leaving the seat up. Better safe than sorry, so stock up and stay sanitary.
That reminds me, I forgot to consider seat protectors and TP in the above equation so that would factor in with 2 sub b. Or is this making things too complicated? 2b or not 2b, that is the question.
Georger said:
I can offer no substantial proof, but I have reason to believe NWA held most of the cards. I have seen evidence (with my own eyes) that they were downright paranoid about the public wanting information about NORJAK specifics. They maintained this stance for at least 10 years. It is my belief (again I cannot offer proof) that NWA cooperated fully with the FBI and other LE, but kept the raw data “in house.”
This is an area that I am currently pursuing (not very successfully). I hope raw data can be retrieved before the merger with Delta causes it to be lost forever.
Just my 2-cents.
Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum
QuoteAnother twist to this story may be: the FBI never had all of the data which would have been useful in sorting this matter out. The public assumes the FBI was in control and had/has all of the data but I have very sound reasons to suspect that was never the case. So far as I can tell it may not have been the FBI assembling and evaluating the "data" but others.
I can offer no substantial proof, but I have reason to believe NWA held most of the cards. I have seen evidence (with my own eyes) that they were downright paranoid about the public wanting information about NORJAK specifics. They maintained this stance for at least 10 years. It is my belief (again I cannot offer proof) that NWA cooperated fully with the FBI and other LE, but kept the raw data “in house.”
This is an area that I am currently pursuing (not very successfully). I hope raw data can be retrieved before the merger with Delta causes it to be lost forever.
Just my 2-cents.
Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum
georger 244
Quotegeorger,
In deference to your use and consumption of Clamato I found another anachronistic invention which baffles me to an even greater degree than the commercial pre-mixing of tomato and clam juices.
That being the Coleman portable (not mobile) toilet which boasts utility 'on long car trips'. Car trips?!?? Not van or campers but cars. Although it would probably be a rush to use while elevated in the seat and surrounded by glass. The very thought of a vacation so tightly scheduled that an extra toilet break would be of too great an impact, holds less appeal than traveling with the half filled device in the first place.
The engineering department at Coleman found some wisdom in designing the 'privy' with a 2.8 gallon 'holding' tank combined with a 3.2 gallon (???) fresh water tank. My skill in physics is pretty limited and geometry even worse but I'll give it a try.
A 2.8 gallon holding tank (1) is 0.4 gallons smaller than the 3.2 gallon water supply (a). Toilets are generally used to deposit and transfer 'material of limited value' (2) and would have some volume greater than zero (b).
OK then, a-1=0.4 gallons surplus water which will flow out of the portable toilet +b (the volume of the final variable).
How can I solve for number (2)?
If that isn't strange enough, this convenience also has accessories. Coleman part number 827-231T is a package of seat protectors for your portable loo. After all, you never know who's used it before and men are notorious for leaving the seat up. Better safe than sorry, so stock up and stay sanitary.
That reminds me, I forgot to consider seat protectors and TP in the above equation so that would factor in with 2 sub b. Or is this making things too complicated? 2b or not 2b, that is the question.
Good stuff! Youve outdone me. Ill think something
up after The Amazing Race and Olympics and be back - maybe they will have found Cooper in the
meantime!
Oh. Here's Bob Dylan's outhouse at Malibu. The one
he got sued over ...
377 22
QuoteOh. Here's Bob Dylan's outhouse at Malibu. The one
he got sued over ...
Was Bob feeling a little guilty about living among the rich and famous? I guess and outhouse and an old car would make it kinda OK to live in Malibu.
G, do you have a picture of Bob's Malibu car?
I do think the FBI was just floored by Norjack. They had investigated air piracy cases, but no AIR was involved. This one was pure flight (aeronautics) and flight (escape). They were in way over their heads.
That's cool that you knew Art Collins G. What was he like?
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
The posts are going completely
off the screen. Is it just my
settings or is it messed up?
You is G Art Collins - what did
I miss? To hard to look back
if you have to read each line
for an acre out in right field.
off the screen. Is it just my
settings or is it messed up?
You is G Art Collins - what did
I miss? To hard to look back
if you have to read each line
for an acre out in right field.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
quade 4
When Georger uploaded his pictures, one attachment had a name that was ridiculously long and pushed everything out of whack.
It's better now.
It's better now.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
georger 244
QuoteWhen Georger uploaded his pictures, one attachment had a name that was ridiculously long and pushed everything out of whack.
It's better now.
sorry about that ...
Jerry Thomas
I'm confused. At 83 my mind is a bit addled, but in 1995 I was in Nagano on my way to Hong Kong. I made this jump in China August 1997. According to Zhang Angang, head areo sports coach at Beijing Aero Sports School at Baishan, Changping province I was the oldest man to make a parachute jump in China. The article headed The Pensioner Plunges was published in the Beijing Weekly, August 22-24, 1997. So that means that we met in Hong Kong or possibly Nagano, Japan. I truly can't remember meeting you. I'm sorry.
Sheridan (Pete) Peterson
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