DB Cooper

[377 22]

My strong opinion is that a 1 watt $39.95 CB walkie talkie of 1971 vintage would have given Cooper about 20 miles of coverage radius aloft if he deployed right after leaving the 727.

Even if he didn't use it under canopy, if his accomplice was on a hilltop within Coopers line of sight (ie Cooper could see the peak) he'd have had no problem communicating for at least fifteen miles.

In 1960s I made regular TEN MILE line of sight comms with 100 mw (one tenth of a watt) CB walkie talkies (not the toy kind, but $30 Lafayette sets with superhet receivers) between hilltop and flatlands positions that had line of sight. No big deal.

Rain doesn't really have a big effect on CB frequencies. I did comms in the rain and didnt notice much difference.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Cooper probably died on the jump, but if he didnt, how could he have walked out without being noticed? That has always made me wonder about an accomplice on the ground.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 244]

Quote

Cooper probably died on the jump, but if he didnt, how could he have walked out without being noticed? That has always made me wonder about an accomplice on the ground.

377

By the same token how could he have been dead without something being notivced?

Did a copy of the Parachutist Magazine articles ever
make their way to Sluggo? I never received anything?

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

My strong opinion is that a 1 watt $39.95 CB walkie talkie of 1971 vintage would have given Cooper about 20 miles of coverage radius aloft if he deployed right after leaving the 727.

Even if he didn't use it under canopy, if his accomplice was on a hilltop within Coopers line of sight (ie Cooper could see the peak) he'd have had no problem communicating for at least fifteen miles.

377

I wish I could talk freely about Duane's past and some of the things I was told - but my hands are tied.

I will talk about CB's and Walkie talkies. Duane knew CB's and short waves. Someone in his past explained to me how they kept in touch with each other miles apart (we did not have cells back then)...I cannot tell you why these walkie talkies where used. There was also communication from walkie talkie to car C.B. and back - I didn't know this was possible and have never discussed it before.

Needless to say we are talking illegal activity involving the cat and mouse....there goes that Mouse again.

I kept this post as generic as possible...but, will someone explore or explain how this would work - switching from CB to walkie talkie communication after reaching the vehicle and being on the move to pick-up the other party.

This is WHY I aways said if Cooper actually did go to the bathroom while waiting for the passengers to disembark - he was doing something beside taking a dump.
1. He didn't want the passengers getting a good look at him as the departed.
2. Maybe he was making communications with someone inside the terminal or just out side of the airfield.

Remember that when we made our 1979 trip to Seattle he took me on a SHORT CUT that wasn't a short cut but the back side of the airport. There was what looked like it could have been an old 2 story motel (or old offices) in the area outside of the airport when the Plane was parked on the ground. His only comment was "I don't remember that fence being there". Nothing else was said other than the fact that we were on the backside of the airport in Seattle and NOT much had changed.

There was conversation about communications because he talked about towers - and since he was telling me where this landing strip was and this airport was - I assumed the towers to be radio or lights to locate the strips and never questioned what these tower where. Others later suggested fire towers, lookout towers, communication and microwave towers. Since we were in wooded areas at times - I ASSUMED fire tower on a couple of these, but would a fire tower be high enough to require a LIGHT? I never thought to ask this question.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Did a copy of the Parachutist Magazine articles ever
make their way to Sluggo? I never received anything?

What Parachutist magazine articles? I am not part of the team, but interested in anything that can prove or disprove any part of all of this. Briefly what is the context of the articles and are they on line?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

A CB walkie talkie could talk to a car CB, no problem at all Jo.

I will scan the Parachutist articles, pt 1 and 2. Should be able to get it done next week. Nothing new in the articles, even a few possible minor factual errors, but good reading and really great graphics.

Experienced jumpers who jumped the 727 and DC 9 at WFFC were interviewed and most were surprised at the unexpected violence of their first jet exit. Once they knew what to expect, no big deal on subsequent jumps. One went out at 170 kts.
'
As for Georger's Q about if Cooper died on the jump why no body was found I'd guess a river impact with a packed chute might possibly explain it.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 244]

I will scan the Parachutist articles, pt 1 and 2. Should be able to get it done next week. Nothing new in the articles, even a few possible minor factual errors, but good reading and really great graphics.


As for Georger's Q about if Cooper died on the jump why no body was found I'd guess a river impact with a packed chute might possibly explain it.

377

Thanks., Good answer!forever.

Hey Jo. You also missed the other magazines I
cited ... better go back and read.

[skyjack71 0]

377 stated;

Quote

As for Georger's Q about if Cooper died on the jump why no body was found I'd guess a river impact with a packed chute might possibly explain it.

377

Georger stated:

Quote

Thanks., Good answer!forever.

Hey Jo. You also missed the other magazines I
cited ... better go back and read.

Georger:

Unable to sit at the computer more than a few moments at a time.
Please just list the magazines Georger and the month and issue - and name of Article. If you already have urls for them, what is the problem with sending them to me.

To All:

I am in communications with a couple from WA who contacted me a couple of wks ago - they are going to do research I asked Jerry to do yrs ago. The man has over 30 yrs experience in search and rescue with bodies in the Columbia.

Now maybe I will get real answers. The different pieces of land I asked Jerry to research - he never provided me with any information - names of the owner of these properties and they aren't that difficult to locate - I directed him and he just didn't do it. Mostly farm land prior to 1979 - and few property owners.

I also wanted the names of all who were buried prior to 1979 at the memorial cemetery in Washougal - and also to search the newspaper archives for a specific incident during a specific period of time. Research that could have set me free yrs ago - prior to the time I went public in 2000.

In The Dalles area there is a certain story that needs to be tracked down about a boy who swept out a shoe store in the 40's and who had a penance for the Fire Dept. He was about 22 yrs old. He also picked apples in season.

He spent most of his free time in the caves and running with a group of guys (smoke jumpers) on the WA side. He purportedly had a girl friend and they both disappeared about the same time. She showed up many yrs later with a baby in tow and then again disappeared. There maybe a picture in the archives of this guy working with the fire dept or sweeping up. Why I have always wanted to go to The Dalles and the surrounding areas.

This story is from the late 40's, but maybe he came back - yrs later. I have no idea if this story is true or not - but I want to chase it down - just because of the things Duane. himself said when we were at the The Dalles.
They correlate in a distance way with this story.

If enough is found - I will somehow get to WA and OR to see for myself anything they find.

I will send a picture of that book and little girl to every newspaper I can find - if it was Tina then I should find out this yr, because that is all I have left to give. If anyone lost this book and this picture on that flight surely someone made note of it - even if the owner has deceased.

I only have a short time to find answers and I want answers - real answers even if they are not what I am looking for. Frankly I don't believe you will find out when you die - when you die you die and that is it. This life is all wwe have..we get it wrong and no one will ever care. We get it right and at least someone remembers - this is not about me but about Duane. That is my mission to uncover his story - to find what he told me and to make some sense out of it.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[JerryThomas 0]

Jo There is very little info that is out there on the cooper case that I was not aware of before drop zone to include you. I must say I never expected to read some of the fictional stories that has been presented here on dropzone. Still all in all your readers get a kick out of these stories and would rather read them then have a unresponsive period on this thread. So I give you a atagirl for your efforts to amuse this thread. But only for that reason.Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

Well daughter was releaseed from the hospital and is doing fine, need's to get some things in her life straighten out. Sorry for the post should have kept it private, don't no why I even posted it. Guess I was feeling sorry for my self that day. I would like to wish all father's a happy fathers day. And yes all those single mothers that were both, the same, on this day. Jerry

[skyjack71 0]

Jerry Posted this:

Quote

Jo There is very little info that is out there on the cooper case that I was not aware of before drop zone to include you. I must say I never expected to read some of the fictional stories that has been presented here on dropzone. Still all in all your readers get a kick out of these stories and would rather read them then have a unresponsive period on this thread. So I give you a atagirl for your efforts to amuse this thread. But only for that reason.Jerry

To Jerry:

You are the one who is fictionalizing - and I have black and white Documents to prove it.

I don't post anything for KICKS, but "We" do explore things - rather than stick with "this is known or that is known". If the FBI had done this - perhaps the case would have been solved yrs ago.

To All:



General Information relating to Law and Crime:[

It has reached the point that citizens are afraid to contact the authorities about alledged crimes, because they fear retailiation from local authorities.

One woman witnessesed local fraudulent activities regarding a foreclosed home - when she tried to report this to the company (the lender and realtor) and told them she had pictures - she was told to just stay quiet. She had pictures and someone tried to break into her home the next day. Now this woman has no idea who to trust and will not leave her home - she is scared of the local authorities...and all the lender would do is provide an address for her to make a complaint. She contacted the States Attorney's office but was afraid to tell them what she knew.

This is what the system has come down to - citizens afraid to report thefts and fraud because of retailitation - NO ONE wants to report a crime even with pictures and some even fear for their lives when they go up against large Lenders and the local sheriffs dept. She stumbled upon a large rackettering operation involving lenders, realtors, and thieves who go into the homes and strip them out.

She knew the prior owner and watched them move - knowing that they left behind even some of their own treasures and items they could have sold. The law says that what has been left in the home must be put on the right-away for 48 hrs so the owner can retrieve the items. Only garbage was put out and then when the maintainence crew shows up they "strip" the house of built in's and other things that the occupants left behind. She knew something was funny as it was way up into the night and she started to take pictures of the loaded container.

The next day she contacts the realtor and was told the home had been stripped by the prior owner. She knew this was not true and told him she had pictures. Someone attempted to break into her home the next day. She contacted the lender - because of the Sunshine law violations some of this stripping removed and all she was given was an address to file a formal complaint. She did report the other items taken from the home.

She contacted the attorney generals office because the local sheriff's office was implemented in this proceedure, but she was afraid to leave a message. What a mess this world is in when people are afraid to make a complaint or report a crime.

I have to agree with her, because I am also caught in that same web, but in a different way. When one is afraid of the local sheriff's office and the FBI this "democracy" is unacceptable.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

What I posted in a prior post:

Quote

To All:

I am in communications with a couple from WA who contacted me a couple of wks ago - they are going to do research I asked Jerry to do yrs ago. The man has over 30 yrs experience in search and rescue with bodies in the Columbia.

Now maybe I will get real answers. The different pieces of land I asked Jerry to research - he never provided me with any information - names of the owner of these properties and they aren't that difficult to locate - I directed him and he just didn't do it. Mostly farm land prior to 1979 - and few property owners.

I also wanted the names of all who were buried prior to 1979 at the memorial cemetery in Washougal - and also to search the newspaper archives for a specific incident during a specific period of time. Research that could have set me free yrs ago - prior to the time I went public in 2000.

I have since had a long conversation with the above persons. They are waiting for my maps - ( maps she sent to me that encompass more than what I have ). For 2 days now I have tediously marked this map with markings from multiple maps in my possession now some of which I can thank Sluggo for and the most important one was one sent out of Oregon, by someone who preferred not to be named. A marvelous map.

Well, with this new map I have placed any and all markings and quotes and questions from the other maps - it was amazing what I had infront of me when I got thur. It just stood out - how he did it and how he got away and before I send it back I need to find someone to copy this map with all of my markings on it and all of the notes on it. It was a How Did He Do It Map when I got through.

Regarding archived new articles and county property records:

If important documents have been removed - they generally don't do much if the file is old and of not much value to history such as a news articles that had not been micro-fished. Even old county records - have been found to be missing a page here and there - which puts a cloud on the title of properties (hence why we have Title insurance). Just a little information some of you might be interested in.

There are additional steps when parts of a title seem clouded due to loss of documentation - title companies do NOT like having to hire someone to do these things, but if it affects more than one property along with the increasing value of the sub-divided properties - it becomes essential.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[JerryThomas 0]

Jo. Cool I'm glad that this is the result of your investgation. and that you can prove this. Please continue with your storie's. Fascinating. Jo If what you want is for me to call you a lier out right so be it .But please stop proving your self a lier. Quade if this is reason to abonish me fine what i can't understand is Jo has done much worse than any one on this thread and is still posting fiction and degrading posters . Still you allow her to post even though she degrades dropzone it self.Why Jerry

[georger 244]

Quote

Well daughter was releaseed from the hospital and is doing fine, need's to get some things in her life straighten out. Sorry for the post should have kept it private, don't no why I even posted it. Guess I was feeling sorry for my self that day. I would like to wish all father's a happy fathers day. And yes all those single mothers that were both, the same, on this day. Jerry

If you see this first tried you mid day and tonight
so you have a call waiting ... all good news here
which I left ... talk to you soon. Happy Father's Day.

[377 22]

Check this out, we have a former NWA 727 pilot/skydiver on dropzone.com:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3881714;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Robert99 50]

Quote

Check this out, we have a former NWA 727 pilot/skydiver on dropzone.com:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3881714;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

377

I need to explain how this ended up on a separate thread. My intentions were to post to the D. B. Cooper thread but ended up creating a new thread. I confessed to Quade and he locked the new thread. There are a number of posts prior to and related to my last post on the now locked thread. And further related posts will be forthcoming. Sluggo is now on the case and things should start being clarified shortly, maybe today. So stay tuned.

Robert Nicholson

[377 22]

Thanks Robert. I like hard core aircraft and parachuting stuff more than speculative conspiracy theory posts, so bring it on.

Might be a long time before we get to jump from a big jet again. The FAA rules have calendar time limits on some engines as well as operating hours.

Last I heard, the Perris DC 9 is up against a bureaucratic brick wall with a low operating hours engine that is timed out on years. It is a major six figure problem unless someone can get a waiver or exemption. Any A&Ps out there who can explain more about the rules?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 244]

Quote

Quote

Check this out, we have a former NWA 727 pilot/skydiver on dropzone.com:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3881714;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

377

I need to explain how this ended up on a separate thread. My intentions were to post to the D. B. Cooper thread but ended up creating a new thread. I confessed to Quade and he locked the new thread. There are a number of posts prior to and related to my last post on the now locked thread. And further related posts will be forthcoming. Sluggo is now on the case and things should start being clarified shortly, maybe today. So stay tuned.

Robert Nicholson

I am very pleased with what you have done here -

I'm going to wait before I say more, but I think
what you have done is important.

Do you know what Bohan's Continental flight
number was and its path? Why are you discounting
Bohan's report at PDX, if you are discounting that?

Good work!

[skyjack71 0]

Robert - here is your Copy and Paste: I took the liberty of doing this for you so that others who read the forum are able to view this particular post:

Jo Weber
--------------------------------
----------------------------
Posted by Robert:
Jun 16, 2010, 5:28 PM

Registered: Mar 13, 2009
Posts: 15

Re: [buff] 727 TAKE-OFF CLIMB PERFORMANCE - NEW [In reply to]


Thanks to Meux and Buff for the information. And here I go again. What follows below is derived from the best of Hammer and Tong Engineering, creative cross-plotting of questionable data, and other advanced techniques that I came across in my days as a practicing Aeronautical Engineer. So you have been warned!

The only time data that can be reasonably accurate is that in the ATC transcripts related to NWA 305. I used the four times that also specified altitudes during the initial take-off and climb to 10,000 feet. Those times were plotted against altitude and the resulting manipulations resulted in a projected take-off time of 7:34 PM PST, as opposed to Sluggo's estimate of 7:33 and the FBI's estimate of 7:36.
In addition, the winds aloft were estimated from the chart that depicted the original guess as to Cooper's landing zone.

All of this resulted in a three segment climb to 10,000 feet with the entire climb being flown at 160 KIAS. First, the climb from the Seattle airport to 7000 feet would take 6.5 minutes and cover 16 nautical miles. The aircraft would maintain 7000 feet for 7 minutes and cover 18.5 NM. Then the climb on up to 10,000 feet would require 6 minutes and cover another 16 NM. The total time from wheels off to 10,000 feet would be 19.5 minutes and cover 50.5 NM.

The end result of the above is that the climb to 7000 feet was at a rate of only about 1000 feet per minute and the climb from 7000 to 10,000 feet was at a rate of only about 500 FPM. The aircraft reported "leveling at 10,000" at about 7:53.6 PM which would be the time that it was 50.5 NM down V23. This point is about 13.5 NM north of the Malay Intersection and several NM south of the point that is labeled "1954" on the FBI charts.

The distance from the 50.5 NM point to the PDX (now BTG) VORTAC is 54.5 NM and the aircraft would arrive at PDX, assuming it stayed on the centerline of V23 for the entire distance, at 8:11.8 PM PST. If this estimate is correct, then Cooper jumped within 3 NM of the PDX VORTAC assuming a jump during the time the aircraft clock showed 8:11 and assuming the clock was correct to begin with.

The above was done on a conservative basis (i.e., tried to slow the airplane down) insofar as possible. There is no basis for assuming that the winds aloft were ever greater than about 30 knots at 10,000 feet, regardless of what Captain Bohan reported at 14,000 feet.

While I understand the claim that Cooper jumped into a rainstorm, the weather was generally reported as good with haze and fog south of Portland and generally higher atmospheric pressure south of Seattle. Haze and fog are generally associated with relatively stable weather systems and low surface winds.

To make a full disclosure here, I do not think the airliner overflew the PDX VORTAC but stayed some distance west of it to avoid flying over Portland proper. If this assumption is correct, then Cooper probably was quite near Tena Bar when he jumped.

I understand that there are some strongly held opinions contradicting the above. But your comments are welcome and I look forward to seeing them.

Robert Nicholson

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Robert:

I need for you to explain in Laymen terms why you think the
Plane was WEST of Portland.

All sitings in the Cames area and Portland area place the plane EAST of Portland. I do not understand how you can put this plane West of Portland PDX which would require it fly over a highly populated area.

It was my understanding they skirted East of Portland/Vancouver. It is also my understanding that when a Bomb is on board they are instructed to stay away from heavily populated areas. They have to be within search and rescue, but are NOT to fly over the cities unless the skyjacker has instructed them to do so.
=====================


Robert stated:

Quote

To make a full disclosure here, I do not think the airliner overflew the PDX VORTAC but stayed some distance west of it to avoid flying over Portland proper

. If this assumption is correct, then Cooper probably was quite near Tena Bar when he jumped. ***

Robert,
=====================


What evidence to you have to support that statement - have you talked to the Co-Pilot? He has been reported to have said they were EAST of Portland/Vancouver and so has the Pilot prior to his death.

Remember that some of us are NOT pilots and need answers simplified. There was never any indications the plane flew to the West of PDX - (I am speaking of the airport itself). I have witness account that put the plane over Heisson and then Brush Prairie and then West of Cames. The papers where full of the claims East of Vancouver and West of Cames.

Perhaps you have been led to make this supposition because of the location some of the money was found...7yrs later. Also the money had been stored in a proctected area for a period of that time. This has been stated in the Palmer Report of 1980 and again recently by a party who conducted test there within the last 2 yrs.

How could the route and sitings have been so mis-led in 1971? This maybe just another qlich probagated by the authorities who want to bury Cooper in the Columbia once and for all. After 38 yrs one would have thought had the plane been West of Portland this would have come up way before 2009 when the flight became controversial in this forum

Why would there be controversy about the route 38 yrs later?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Robert99 50]

Quote

Robert:

I need for you to explain in Laymen terms why you think the
Plane was WEST of Portland.

All sitings in the Cames area and Portland area place the plane EAST of Portland. I do not understand how you can put this plane West of Portland PDX which would require it fly over a highly populated area.

It was my understanding they skirted East of Portland/Vancouver. It is also my understanding that when a Bomb is on board they are instructed to stay away from heavily populated areas. They have to be within search and rescue, but are NOT to fly over the cities unless the skyjacker has instructed them to do so.
=====================


Robert stated:

Quote

To make a full disclosure here, I do not think the airliner overflew the PDX VORTAC but stayed some distance west of it to avoid flying over Portland proper

. If this assumption is correct, then Cooper probably was quite near Tena Bar when he jumped. ***

Robert,
=====================


What evidence to you have to support that statement - have you talked to the Co-Pilot? He has been reported to have said they were EAST of Portland/Vancouver and so has the Pilot prior to his death.

Remember that some of us are NOT pilots and need answers simplified. There was never any indications the plane flew to the West of PDX - (I am speaking of the airport itself). I have witness account that put the plane over Heisson and then Brush Prairie and then West of Cames. The papers where full of the claims East of Vancouver and West of Cames.

Perhaps you have been led to make this supposition because of the location some of the money was found...7yrs later. Also the money had been stored in a proctected area for a period of that time. This has been stated in the Palmer Report of 1980 and again recently by a party who conducted test there within the last 2 yrs.

How could the route and sitings have been so mis-led in 1971? This maybe just another qlich probagated by the authorities who want to bury Cooper in the Columbia once and for all. After 38 yrs one would have thought had the plane been West of Portland this would have come up way before 2009 when the flight became controversial in this forum

Jo, thanks for the cut and paste. I hope to have answers to some of the above questions within the next week.


Why would there be controversy about the route 38 yrs later?

This is the unanswerable question. With radar, ATC communications logs, ARINC communications logs, phone cross-talk logs between the ATC controllers (which were available even if they weren't obtained from the Seattle Center), and airplane flight recorder records, it is amazing that the question has never been resolved based on actual data. So your question cannot be answered. Sorry.

Robert

[BruceSmith 3]

Quote

Quote

Robert:

I need for you to explain in Laymen terms why you think the
Plane was WEST of Portland.

This is the unanswerable question. With radar, ATC communications logs, ARINC communications logs, phone cross-talk logs between the ATC controllers (which were available even if they weren't obtained from the Seattle Center), and airplane flight recorder records, it is amazing that the question has never been resolved based on actual data. So your question cannot be answered. Sorry.

Robert

Quote

Thank you, Robert for your fine work and clear presentation. Exceptional analysis. I am grateful.

• Quote

Share this post

---

Link to post

Share on other sites

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Skywhuffo said:

Quote

Hey Sluggo! NASCAR SUX! GO Indy Car! HA! I just wanted to see if you were alive and get a rise out of you. HA!

Spoken like a true Indianite Indianian Indiaist Indianaer … oh shit Hoosier.

Been busy, but still read the thread when time allows. However, I NEVER… I repeat… I NEVER miss a NSCS Race.

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

1971 PDX VORTAC = 2010 BTG VORTAC

In 1971, "Miles west of PDX" refers to PDX VORTAC or PDX Airport?

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[JerryThomas 0]

Jo your fiction keeps geting better every post. Kinda like Ralph not wanting to have anything to do with me anymore.You remember you posted that 2 wks ago. that is a prime example of your fiction.So don't mention me in your song and I'll not mention you in mine. Call it gitty up goooo or just stop the fiction stories and prove all your post's.Jerry