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quade

DB Cooper

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I disagree completely. The comic book being at an
NWA facility stands on its own. It is the first solid
link of the comic to anything in the Cooper case,
ever - the link to NWA is specific.



I agree with this.
I also disagree with the assertion that it had to be the one where he is in a parachute. I'm sure 377 etc who have helped investigate criminal cases know many instances of aliases inspired by a hero or character with no 'obvious' link to the crime they committed. (in fact some of Duane Weber's aliases would probably be a perfect example here).
Simply viewing the character as a 'hero' or 'daredevil' or whatever may have been enough to inspire using it as an alias. All conjecture yes but no more so than most other stuff here.


But, if Cochran is not even there on Shemya at the
crucial dates ??? :)

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Dumb question- has it ever been identified what was in the Reserve that was sewn shut by Cossey and used as a trainer? Could that have been the Amboy canopy? After landing Cooper used the reserve pack to carry the money out thus dumping the canopy that was in it. I wonder if Cossey would talk about that?



Another possibly dumb question though not about the chute...Since so much importance (and exclusion from further fed study) is placed on the suspect's physical characteristics, does anyone know how tall Flo and Tina and whoever else made the ids are?

I know that when I'm estimating someone's height I instinctively compare it to my own or my past knowledge of someone I know who is a certain height, or my perception of "so-called" average heights in general. Of course, I'm kind of short so anyone taller could easily be mistaken by me for 5'10 - 6" when they might be actually be shorter than that. I know i've guessed at my own kids heights and find i'm off by inches when I actually measure. Or was the id complicated by other variables such as whether the subject was sitting, or how distracted the observer was when looking at the person or shoes with tall heels ( see pic).

Just wondering if they made the determination based on comparisons with their own height or in relation to other variables, such as his height in relation to the overheads, whether he had to stoop to go in to the lav, etc., etc.

Also - I've read somewhere that he never took the shades off (or is that a myth) - so how could they distinguish between, say brown, dark brown, or even hazel?
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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does anyone know how tall Flo and Tina and whoever else made the ids are?

Also - I've read somewhere that he never took the shades off (or is that a myth) - so how could they distinguish between, say brown, dark brown, or even hazel?



Tina was 5ft 8"; Flo shorter btwn 5-4 and 5-6".
The ticket agent was about Cooper's height.

The official version is that Cooper did not put
on the sunglasses until Flo had read Cooper's
note and went forward with the note, returned
and Cooper had glasses on which he did not
remove until Tina left him around ~8:00pm.

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Not exactly the response of a scammer. Good for you Robert. I do believe truth matters to you and you've demonstrated it here to my satisfaction.

People have false memories all the time, jumbling up chronologies, etc. Skip may have reported exactly what he found, but it was bad info.

You can see I am an optimist and it extends to character assessments.

Carry on and keep us informed.

BTW, do you do the commercial house cleaning yourself or just manage it or both? No shame in cleaning, real work is honorable. I worked as a janitor for a summer in a factory, cleaned floors, injection molding machines and toilets too.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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This was Skipp's interview and I need to hear from him where one of us went wrong. In any case, this part in the book will have to be changed. Someone screwed up, that's for sure.

As I've said previously, it's not about selling books but about THE TRUTH and this link between the comic book and Shemya must be wrong. As the publisher, I take full responsibility for this error.

It's been verified that Christiansen DID work for the airline on Shemya at the same time as Cochran, but he stayed there much longer, years in fact. I will also get the exact dates from Porteous if I can. One problem has been that NW had a bad habit of purging their employee files every five years or so. This came to me from Jim Andersen, the historian for NW airlines.



" Kenny wrote home in one letter dated August 4, 1946, from Sendai. “I went to church this morning...

According to Lyle, Kenny went to college after discharge in 1946.

In college (1946? - ???) " In college, he took a job selling magazine subscriptions on the road. He traveled once with a carnival, selling tickets. Then he’d leave for warmer climes: Jamaica, Laguna Beach, L.A., Mexico City. ....."

Not sure he finished college . . . ?

"After college, Lyle said, his brother went back to
the Pacific, this time to Bikini atoll, in the Marshall Islands. The government was testing nuclear bombs there. "

Atomic testing on Bikini Atoll involved 20 tests between 1946-1958 beginning with the Operation Crossroads series in the summer of 1946.

The March 1, 1954 detonation codenamed Castle Bravo, was the first test of a practical hydrogen bomb. The largest nuclear explosion ever set off by the United States, it was much more powerful than predicted, and created widespread problems. The indigenous population was relocated to Rongerik Atoll, after members of the population being exposed to nuclear fallout. The testing program
was reorganised with many civilian operations personnel let go and evacuated.

Kenny worked as a telephone operator on Bikini Atoll. It was lonely, though he liked being alone, and it was always beach weather on Bikini. Kenny loved the beach, Lyle said.

Then Kenny learned of a job working for the airlines.
Northwest, based in Minneapolis, was looking to hire technicians to work on its planes in Shemya, an island in the Aleutians. He started as a mechanic and was rehired in 1956, as a flight attendant. He relocated to southwest Washington and was promoted to purser.

The article does not specify when KC left Bikini
Atoll and began working for NWA at Shemya.
However, it is unlikely he was part of the program after the March 1, 1954 detonation Castle Bravo went bad - again, there was a reorganisation of
the whole program with personnel evacuated.
It is unlikely KC was on Bikini after 1954.

Kenny probably went to work for NWA some time between 1950 - 1954.

As for KC and DB being "dead ringers" of each
other, they aren't. Not even close. Different facial
structures and cranial types. KC falls within the classic oval type - Coopere falls within the triangular type. These results are CONSISTENT
with every known Cooper sketch no matter
who drew it. See attached -

All of this talk in this forum about different sketches
of Cooper (with slightly different facial features) fails
to capture the greater fact that ALL sketches of Cooper no matter who did them, ALL portray the
same basic facial and cranial type, attributed to Cooper. The minor variations in different sketches promoted by people here do nothing to change the basic typological catagory, which Cooper falls into!
Until that is changed, nothing changes.

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So many choices for a nom de plume regarding Flight 305. I thought of a few possibilities which were certainly part of the cultural lexicon prior to the hijacking.

Cartoons and comics had characters like Race Banyon of Johnny Quest fame. You know, the sexually ambiguous 'partner' of Dr. Quest. That orphan boy Hadji, what was up with that? Oh well.

Mike Wilson was a pilot with the Skyhawks. Another lantern-jawed, hero running some sort of daredevil combined with rescue flight service against the less than honorable Buck Devlin.

Television offered less likely content in the form of Sky King. Some sort of gun toting, singing cowboy, who dispenses justice and adventure from a Beech-18. I never could figure out his business model.

The character Porter Ricks once crashed an aircraft on a Florida beach where he awaited rescue from his pet fish. This was yet another household filled with men. Weird.

Movies never disappoint. 12 O'clock High had a bomber pilot and war hawk with the name Frank Savage. Not only did he serve up some whoop-ass on the Nazis, he looked good while doing it.

Joe Browdy was a skydiving, womanizer with a wing suit and attitude. By day he thrilled audiences with his jumping skills, by night he thrilled his partners wife. It is just this sort of escapist fantasy that make movies worth going to.

Catch-22 produced a Bombardier who didn't want to fly any more combat missions named John Yossarian. There is a name that is both obscure and catchy. D B Yossarian.

The movie Airport introduced the desperate and defeated character D O Guerrero. Recall that D O entered the aircraft with a brief case which contained a bomb. First he purchased a fist full of life insurance and then retreated to the lavatory (as they ALL seem to do) and boom.

Plenty of fodder for an alias. Richard McCoy used James Johnson. Is there a character with the name James Johnson which inspired McCoy to select such a name? It strikes me as simply a common, yet believable name like Dan Cooper. Cooper was described as average to forgettable. Would he select a name that could be traced to his background?

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Television offered less likely content in the form of Sky King. Some sort of gun toting, singing cowboy, who dispenses justice and adventure from a Beech-18. I never could figure out his business model.



Farflung, you have made the classic airplane trivia mistake. Before Sky King upgraded to a Cessna 310B, his sky mount was a Cessna T 50 Bamboo Bomber, not a Twin Beech.

You can redeem yourself by recalling the RIPCORD heroes TV names and their company plane type. I never could get used to limping Festus from Gunsmoke being a skydiver on another channel.

And how could you leave out Col. Steve Canyon. the squarest jawed of all the comic strip/book square jaw aviators?

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Plenty of fodder for an alias. Richard McCoy used James Johnson. Is there a character with the name James Johnson which inspired McCoy to select such a name? It strikes me as simply a common, yet believable name like Dan Cooper. Cooper was described as average to forgettable. Would he select a name that could be traced to his background?



Probably not. The name doesnt become significant
until 'it becomes significant', and to become significant something has to lift it out of the realm of being a random probable event. The FBI went straight to a local Dan Cooper - he wasnt the guy!
They then looked for a second and a third and a fourth .. from Seattle to Tacoma to Portland. Empty
hole.

The same for the photo of Kenny with a laundry bag and a dark briefcase. Did Kenny's briefcase match
Cooper's briefcase? Few have asked ... a guy walks in with a laundry bag and a briefcase .. that could have been any stuident or professor at a college or university in the whole United States (and the world)
so, a high probability occurrence.

Youc an build a case for anything based on clustering anecdotes which in themselves have a high probability of occurrence at any given time on
planet Earth.

Cooper said nothing about his name and was never asked about the name Dan Cooper, through the whole ordeal.

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Television offered less likely content in the form of Sky King. Some sort of gun toting, singing cowboy, who dispenses justice and adventure from a Beech-18. I never could figure out his business model.



Farflung, you have made the classic airplane trivia mistake. Before Sky King upgraded to a Cessna 310B, his sky mount was a Cessna T 50 Bamboo Bomber, not a Twin Beech.

You can redeem yourself by recalling the RIPCORD heroes TV names and their company plane type. I never could get used to limping Festus from Gunsmoke being a skydiver on another channel.

And how could you leave out Col. Steve Canyon. the squarest jawed of all the comic strip/book square jaw aviators?

377



Cooper has an interesting jaw line, afaic. It sure isnt
Kenny's pouty fat pouch cheek characteristic of his
facial/body type. Cooper has a rather strong and prominent facial feature which might strengthen with age vs. Kenny's more amorphous oval ball
features which would only expand (and sag) with
age. It could be a strong genetic feature familiar in
Cooper's case and Im almost willing to bet it is. Cooper a full 6 feet (taller when younger?) vs Kenny's short squat 5'8-9". Only on DZ can you fool Mother Nature ... among candidate promoters and
pseudo-sleuth visionaries!

There is an option based on performance here that I would be willing to take at this point: ie
Assume there is no viable physical description of Cooper and THROW ALL PHYSICAL DATA OUT!
Under this stipulation Cooper could look like
Albert Einstein or Mother Teresa or Lady Ga Ga
or anyone any gender! Barb is back on the table!

That would admit any candidate and any discussion because that is what sleuths & experts here want to do and nothing else will satisfy all comers ... because
you arent going to do anything else anyway.

Was Cooper McGeorge Bundy's uncles' wife?

Good luck.

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Cooper, Cooper, bo-booper; Bannana-fana, fo-fooper



Shirley Ellis, "The Name Game". 1964, reached number 3 on the charts.

I greatly preferred "The Real Nitty Gritty" which she recorded a year earlier but it only made number 8.

I wonder if NWA still was flying Boeing 377s when KC was working at Sheyma?

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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377,

You are correct yet again. Of course Cessna supplied the airframes for Sky King. Guess if you show me a twin with a pair of round (not what you're thinking) engines my bias always says Beech instead of Cessna or Lockheed. Nice catch.

But.... You may have fumbled with the Gunsmoke limp. For it was Chester (Dennis Weaver) who had the limp and was replaced by Festus (Ken Curtis) who had the 'stink eye' glance and spurs with a pronounced jingle when he walked.

Think the Ripcord plane was a Cessna 210. Main characters were Ted McKeever and Jim Buckley who went from riding in Betsy, to riding on Ruth in Gunsmoke.

How did I forget the Alpha-male of all square jawed, heroes.... Steve Canyon?? Pathetic.

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You definitely got me on confusing Chester with Festus. We'll call it even.

I havent seen a Cessna T 50 flying in years. I did see one being decimated by beetles a few years back. The fabric was shredded and insects were feasting on the airframe. Sad, but the ultimate in aircraft recycling.

Still see a Beech 18 flying now and then. If we legalize marijuana in CA (up for a vote in Nov) the Beech 18 will have very few prospects for gainful employment. I think one DZ in Canada may still use them but in the US I dont think they fly regularly at any DZ. Arizona rolls out the radial powered antiques once in a while for a boogie, but it's a turbine show day to day.

Did you notice that the chase plane in the Air America 727 Thailand jump films appears to be a Beech 18? Wonder if it was a Volpar turbine conversion? Pretty big speed mismacth between a 727 and Beech 18.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Nope, we are no longer even Far Flung. Your second photo labeled Lockheed Electra is a Twin Beech (C 45).

You must have seen Amelia, the recent movie and been confused. They alternated between a real Electra and Beech 18 throughout the movie. I was appalled.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Hi Everyone,

Here's a magazine pitch I'm making to the AAA's "Journeys" magazine. The editor says she is looking for "off beat" stuff.

Wish me luck, all. Besides it's my birthday!!!

******

Greetings N.-

I met you at last week's SPJ freelancing workshop, and I'm offering a piece titled, "Road Trip through DB Cooper County," a story derived from my research into the DB Cooper skyjacking case, the only unsolved crime of its kind in the United States.

“Cooper County” is a tour of the investigatory landmarks that uniquely pepper the I-5 corridor of Washington and Oregon.

In 1971, DB Cooper parachuted shortly after take-off from Sea-Tac airport with $200,000 tied to his waist and he has never been seen since, nor is his identity known. Cooper's status in the annals of true crime is beyond legendary, and the Discovery Channel is currently filming the latest documentary on the guy.

Well, we think it's a guy even though one of the most compelling confessions of the 900 folks who have claimed to be Cooper is a Pierce County Airport pilot named Barb Dayton, now deceased, but who had a sex change operation in 1969 and reverted to her male persona two years later to prove she still had the balls to jump out of a plane at night, in November, in the rain and wearing loafers.

Besides seeing where Barb parked her Cessna 140 and chatting with slews of pilots who knew her and believed her confession, travelers can drive two hours south and have a beer at the Ariel Tavern, the gin joint ten miles west of Woodland, Washington near which the FBI figured Cooper landed. A perfect time to visit would be the Saturday after Thanksgiving when hundreds of locals, Cooper aficionados, and at least one FBI agent celebrate “Cooper Days.”

Shortly after Cooper jumped, hundreds of Ft. Lewis soldiers set up camp in Ariel at the Merwin Dam and tromped through the woods for 16 days looking for Cooper, or his remains. "But we didn't even find his belt buckle," reported one federal agent, although they did find two bodies from other homicides.

Continuing south, the journey stops next on the banks of the Columbia River at Frenchman's Bar, the Clark County park that is just upstream from where an 8 year-old boy in 1980 found $5,800 of Cooper's ransom money buried in the sand. To date, this is the only verifiable, material clue to the case, and adds to the mystery - how did the money get there?

The FBI thinks it washed down the Washougal River 20 miles upstream - further east than the original Ariel-Merwin Dam reckoning - and that the cache spent the intervening nine years traversing the two rivers. So, our next tour would be through the very scenic and rugged Washougal Mountains north of Camas, Washington.

But we shan't tarry too long because by now road warriors are seriously catching the scent of DB Cooper and would want to see the Carmelite Monastery in Eugene, Oregon where the flight stewardess who attended to Cooper during the crime, Tina Mucklow, stayed for twelve years after the skyjacking. Considered a hero by her flight crew for keeping Cooper calm, Mucklow nevertheless has lived as a reclusive since the incident and hasn't spoken to anyone - cops or reporters - in over twenty-five years.

On the way back to Seattle, travelers can make a quick pass through the hazelnut groves along I-5 in Woodburn, Oregon where Barb says she landed and planted the money in an irrigation cistern. Just a few miles away, ironically, is the retirement home of the FBI agent who headed up the investigation to collar DB Cooper, "The Skyjacker Who Got Away," which is the title of yet another documentary - this one done in 2008 by National Geographic Magazine cable TV.

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OK georger, time to whip out your photo analysis software and skills on 'The Picture'.

What is that in Kenny's left hand? Briefcase or Navbag?

A Nav or Publications bag would be hard to display a bomb in the fashion described by the Flight Attendant.

What did Cooper have on the plane? Briefcase or luggage? What sort of sack or bag was he holding. I had imagined something on par with a lunch sack rather than a full size grocery bag.

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That bag is definitely not a "brief case". I have a couple of brief cases from the early 1970s and the largest one I could find at that time has slightly less than one-half cubic foot volume. What would KC need a nav bag for since he wasn't doing any navigation? The bag looks like the type of thing that the cabin crew members would use on an overnight trip to carry a single change of clothes. The cockpit crew members would usually carry a nav bag plus an overnight type piece of luggage.

Robert

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OK georger, time to whip out your photo analysis software and skills on 'The Picture'.

What is that in Kenny's left hand? Briefcase or Navbag?

A Nav or Publications bag would be hard to display a bomb in the fashion described by the Flight Attendant.

What did Cooper have on the plane? Briefcase or luggage? What sort of sack or bag was he holding. I had imagined something on par with a lunch sack rather than a full size grocery bag.



Here, you be the judge. Looks more like a nav or
flight case ... not an ordinary briefcase.

Witnesses agreed on briefcase vs other types of
containers ... remember Tina described the contents
(bomb components)..

For Quade's benefit - I used gamma level adjustments (200-90)
+ a medium cut noise filter in Photoshop.
Quade will know what Im
talking about...

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[
As far as Christiansen's face-type or whatever not matching the FBI sketches, I would dispute that. I also suggest that usually when they catch someone from one of those sketches, when you see them in person they often don't look much like the sketch. It's probably pretty close, but it certainly isn't a photographic likeness.



You need to talk to anyone who knows anatomy...
beside yourself that is. I realise this falls on deaf ears.

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Here, you be the judge. Looks more like a nav or
flight case ... not an ordinary briefcase.

Witnesses agreed on briefcase vs other types of
containers ... remember Tina described the contents
(bomb components)..




Bingo Georger - That is what I thought it was but I couldn't get it to enlarge like you did.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Here, you be the judge. Looks more like a nav or
flight case ... not an ordinary briefcase.

Witnesses agreed on briefcase vs other types of
containers ... remember Tina described the contents
(bomb components)..




Bingo Georger - That is what I thought it was but I couldn't get it to enlarge like you did.



There is a flight? tag on the bag near (underneath) the handle.

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Blevins is having to retract so much now that he doesn't have a story - Wonder if the History Channel is reading all of this - Perhaps the History Channel should do a special on the Cooper Spookers - this thread.

If Blevins has even onE iota what is going on he should be able to answer this Question:

Blevins,
What yr did the Dan Cooper Comic come out about parachutes?

Guys don't tell him - let him find this out ALL BY HIMSELF. We aren't writing his book for him.
:D:D:D

Blevins,
the History Channel is here and reading all of this. I am delusional and crazy and I have been into this investigation for 14 yrs, but not writing a book...just trying to find the truth.

Bruce,
now I will pick on you just a little just so Blevins won't think he is being singled out.

Bruce wrote:
"Continuing south, the journey stops next on the banks of the Columbia River at Frenchman's Bar, the Clark County park that is just upstream from where an 8 year-old boy in 1980 found $5,800 of Cooper's ransom money buried in the sand."

What I think:
Aren't Frenchman's reef and Tena's bar two different places?


You stated:
"Mucklow nevertheless has lived as a reclusive since the incident and hasn't spoken to anyone - cops or reporters - in over twenty-five years."

What I think:
Needless to say we all know I am defensive regarding Tina. I think she is a beautiful woman living a full life, but the past is always in the shadows...there is only way her life could ever resemble that of a normal person and I think she took that opportunity yrs ago.

I figured that Blevins has to know he is not the only one who gets picked on.

:)NOW LET'S ALL WISH BRUCE A HAPPY BIRTHDAY BEFORE MONDAY IS GONE![/BLUE]

:)THEN ON TUESDAY WE CAN WISH RALPH HIMMELSBACK A HAPPY BIRTHDAY[/BLUE].

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Canada/Vancouver HDTV was filming for 3 weeks in Portland, Vancouver, WA, Seattle and Canada. Also used a Boeing at Paine Field in Everett, WA....all about D.B. Cooper (could be one or several of the subjects)...at least they didn't plaster it all over the internet and waited for it to be done. Whoever did this didn't want publicity and this speaks well of all who may have been involved.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Canada/Vancouver HDTV was filming for 3 weeks in Portland, Vancouver, WA, Seattle and Canada. Also used a Boeing at Paine Field in Everett, WA....all about D.B. Cooper (could be one or several of the subjects)...at least they didn't plaster it all over the internet and waited for it to be done. Whoever did this didn't want publicity and this speaks well of all who may have been involved.



Maybe this case will be solved by thetime I get up
tomorrow - that would be wonderful! ZZZZZZZZ

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