DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

In a post above I have made public the 3rd and 4th PM's I made to Jamie after being labled a stalker. As our resident attorney - please read them and advise if they seem out of order.

We have had many posters come and go - but a newbie to the Cooper case has 98% of the time taken our advise and read this thread plus the first one that got LOCKED and why.

I suppose I have an attitude about newbies who come here and expect this to be a BLOG. Yes, we have our moments, but the newbies usually take our advice about reading the two threads to learn the basics of the case and what has been accomplished.

Still waiting to find out what the FBI agent meant when he told me to be "patient for a few more wks". Maybe they are going to announce Jamie's father was the skyjacker! You Think?

I am very serious about needing picures of Jamie over his life span....and unfortunately he reads something sinister into this. If I am wrong about this thing - I suspect, I will be the first to admit it. Even if I am right about this thing - is will NOT prove anyone is Cooper, but it will cast some more strange co-incidences into the pot. One being Motive and why the name Cooper was use.

Forget What you are thinking - NO Duane Weber WAS NOT Jamie's father and NONE of my posts or PM's would suggest such a thing. Over a period of 30 yrs I was told a story by 3 different individuals - that makes me want to know MORE about Jamie because of his birth date. All 3 stories were consist and no one knew the other told me the same story...one of the most consistent denominators in my story. One of the reasons I do NOT believe Duane lied to me about other things.

I was told there are newpaper articles in Kansas about Duane L. Weber / aka John C. Collins. Some of them where about the awards he won and others where about his arrest. Wonder if Snowmman can find those. Pyramid Life insurance refused to give me anything, but finding out the other day that Duane Weber nor John Collilns actually held a insurance license in Ks was ing and might be why he was purged from their records.

Enquiring Minds Want to Know.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Robert99 50]

Quote

Yes, but understand it's of prime significance to anyone that is either claiming or debunking a landing site.

To date, all estimates are simply guesswork. Some may be "better" than others, but clearly none are definitive. Some have claimed exit points that are clearly unsupported while others have claimed winds aloft that are equally unsupported.

The introduction of recent stories into this thread lead to yet another round of this by people claiming to have it all figured out.

Clearly that's BS.

Quade, Neither I nor anyone else has got the Cooper matter "all figured out". And I for one have never claimed otherwise.

Robert Nicholson

[quade 4]

Ok, you're one guy with a guilty concience then.

Did I mention you by name? There are a couple more folk here.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[377 22]

Quote

Quote

I disagree. Cold cases get solved this way from time to time, even really old ones. Sure, the odds are long, but it is not hopeless and not silly.

Quote

Really? Name a single case this old that hinged on the testimony of an eyewitness coming forward as a result of what they saw in a fictionalized TV special (which is what all of these are at this point).

I'm not saying that the search for the identity of DB Cooper isn't a fun little hobby (or financially rewarding) exploit for some folks, but to think somebody is going to remember something significant that solves the case is simply wishful thinking.

I am not expecting a direct eyewitness. It could be a landlord in Minneapolis or Montreal recalling a tenant who was never seen again after Nov 24th 1971 and left all their belongings in the apartment. The witness never thought about the DBC angle until he sees the TV show and makes the connection about the dates. It is a long shot but it sure as hell isnt impossible or silly. Many people know a little about DBC but have NO IDEA what the date of the crime was. Just getting that data out to a larger slice of the public is useful.

Anyone who expects a financial reward from DB Cooper sleuthing or authoring is dreaming. The TIGHAR guys keep raising money for Amelia Erhart searches http://tighar.org/ but nobody has figured out how to get paid for looking for Cooper, except perhaps Larry Carr, and it's just his normal FBI salary.

Even if all the DBC book projects Jo listed are published, I'll bet the vast majority of the copies end up in the $1.99 remainder bins at Borders in a short time.

A feature movie done well could be a modest hit, but that's a huge long shot too.

It is a fun hobby. That's all it is for me. Jo has made it her life's work and has spent a lot pursuing leads. The most I'll spend is maybe for a trip to Ariel if I can meet Amazon, Guru, Sluggo and if Snow will go. Maybe we can get Georger to come too and Jerry and Jo. Safe is another one I'd like to meet and many others who post here as well. If Orange agrees to show up, we'll all go I am sure. I have my NB8 and C9 all packed up. A clip on tie should be easy to find.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Robert99 50]

Quote

Quote

Quade, The winds aloft are ALWAYS estimates!

Is that true? With the advent of INS and Doppler Nav winds aloft could be accurately measured (well, actually "derived" since the wind isnt measured directly) in real time using simple computers. GPS has made it even easier.

I am not a licensed pilot so forgive me if I mess up some of the air nav stuff.

377

377, The atmosphere is almost always in motion (an exception would be close to the ground under conditions such as those that lead to fog formation). I have used these "motions" in the atmosphere to fly sailplanes to 36,500 feet above sea level. I have also averaged more than one hour per flight in flying sailplanes and that is probably twice my time per flight (or takeoff and landing) for flying powered aircraft.

The winds aloft have their eddys, vertical and horizontal movements, etc. just as the winds at ground level do. The winds at any given point aloft will vary from moment to moment.

While the winds aloft forecast is just that (a prediction), if an aircraft has an INS, GPS, or Doppler navigation system, then the wind information available to the pilot is much more accurate or reliable than the forecast.

Robert Nicholson

[quade 4]

Quote

Anyone who expects a financial reward from DB Cooper sleuthing or authoring is dreaming.

Oh that's simply not true at all. It's a local tourist trap business and my guess is that everyone that has ever worked on any of the TV specials got paid for it. For instance, I'm pretty damn sure Perris got money for the plane and Troy got paid for the jump. The cameramen got paid, so did the writer, producer and director.

It's a cottage industry to be sure, but to say nobody ever got a financial reward for exploiting DB Cooper is naive.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[377 22]

Quote

In a post above I have made public the 3rd and 4th PM's I made to Jamie after being labled a stalker. As our resident attorney - please read them and advise if they seem out of order.

Jo,

My advice to you and everyone else is stop worrying about lawsuits, stalker charges, etc. It's all fantasy here. Even if someone were to slander me in a forum post, for example, what are the provable damages? Not NEARLY enough to justify any legal action, not even close and I can litigate almost for free. You aren't a stalker in my book. Jamie can simply ignore you if he chooses. A nuisance and a stalker are different animals.

Let's keep lawyer crap out of this forum entirely. Jo you can take the first step by removing that obnoxious copyright notice from all your posts. Deal?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Robert99 50]

Quote

Ok, you're one guy with a guilty concience then.

Did I mention you by name? There are a couple more folk here.

Quade, While there is some reason to believe that I don't have a conscience in the first place, you did not mention me by name. Maybe I just had a knee jerk reaction to your post? Could be.

Robert Nicholson

[377 22]

Quote

I'm pretty damn sure Perris got money for the plane and Troy got paid for the jump.

True, but you know what I meant. There is no bonanza here. At least not in my opinion.

If I had been negotiating that contract Troy would have been hanging under a C9 round, but he'd probably have wanted a lot of extra pay for that.

I guess if someone found a big stash of hot DBC twenties in reasonably good shape that would be a bonanza. The increased supply would depress the prices a bit.

The skunk cam proves its out there to be found.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[quade 4]

Quote

While the winds aloft forecast is just that (a prediction), if an aircraft has an INS, GPS, or Doppler navigation system, then the wind information available to the pilot is much more accurate or reliable than the forecast.

Just building on what Robert said . . .

For MODERN aircraft this is trivial. Most MODERN airliners would have the actual winds aloft at the touch of a button.

In 1971 . . . not so much.

Although it -could- have been calculated if a proper flight log had been kept, which it appears was never entered into evidence.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[JamieCooper 0]

Quote

Quote

This may have held sway 39 years ago, but do you really think there is a person alive today that isn't aware of the DB Cooper case, has any information about it and hasn't thought about it before?

Further, how reliable would those memories now be? Or, more likely simply confabulations of their addled minds attempting to find order out of what truly is chaos at this point.

Please. It's a silly argument.

A great argument for doing nothing. Everything is too old, subject to flawed memory, and has been rehashed over and over. It's hopeless.

I disagree. Cold cases get solved this way from time to time, even really old ones. Sure, the odds are long, but it is not hopeless and not silly.

377

I agree citing the "Willie Vocks case" as a prime example.
now if I could just motivate someone with authority to do something with what I said.
perhaps some consider my accounts to be folklore.
and it's true everything prior to my reaching the age of 2 maybe 3 or so is for the most part 2nd hand.
sans a couple very early memories from before the age of 1.
but lets not forget. the ancient city of Troy as once thought to only be a folklore as well until someone finally listened and poof, found Troy.

after checking out google street view I'm thinking the tavern in Amboy is the most likily candidate for where my father said he went after the jump.
if it were me and I was in the FBI's estimated landing zone, thats where I would go.
a person could safely and easily stash the majority of the money in any of a million places outside and conceivably find a ride or even use the private airstrip nearby.

now this chute that was found near Amboy.
I know thats it's generally thought to have nothing to do with Norjack.
here's my question.
how much space would it take up if it were folded up?
would there have been a military surplus store or anything like that in Seattle in 1971?
also would it have been possible to cannibalize one of the rigs with a chute of this type in the amount of time DB Cooper had on the plane?
the main reason I'm wondering is because my father had at least one of this "white" style of chutes on his farm in ND. I think he had more than that actually but I specifically remember one being used for a drop-cloth to paint his vehicles.

lastly,
the Norjack case cannot be compared to JFK, Aliens, bigfoot or any other unsolved mystery the way you have chosen to quade and here's why.
we don't have prints from the JFK assassination, or any of the other cases you mentioned.
while it's plausible that we may never find the proof we want, we do have some proof.
this is yet again why someone with the authority to do so should open the "Willie Vocks" case file and check for any prints of my fathers, and while theyre at it, get a search warrant and see if the briefcase is still in the attic I last saw it put into.
so far I haven't been able to find a single bit of evidence that discredits my Father being DB Cooper, the only part that doesn't fit effortlessly is his age.
but again, noone knows the actual age of DB Cooper, and given my father theatrical background in High School, he would have known a trick or two to make himself look a little older, aside from the multiple factors I've mentioned in previous posts.

[skyjack71 0]

.

Quote

I am always wary of second guessing experts who had access to the scene at Tena bar. Palmer wasn't a complete dummy. I'd like to hear from others as to how Palmer might have reached an incorrect conclusion given the data he had.

People have drowned in the Columbia and their bodies have never been found. It is something to ponder when thinking about Cooper.

I was in contact over the yrs with two individuals who worked on the river in recovery. The one who did this for over 30 yrs claims if Cooper hit the Water - he survived. Evidently from his experience there would have been something to show up over the yrs. I want to agree.

The money was NOT in the river bank or in the Columbia for 8 yrs - it was protected most of those yrs, but where and how it got to Tena's bar seems to be debatable...but, NOT for me. I know in my heart from the look on his face in 1979 when he watched that paper bag float down the river and what he told me in 1995 when he said "I'm Dan Cooper"....I know how that money got to Tena's bar.

One time a woman who was trying to HOAX me suggested that maybe I didn't remember the complete trip...and because of the changes and time restaints I didn't get to do everything I had scheduled for WA in this Oct of 2010 but, I think I may have remembered all I am going to remember at this stage of the game.

In 2001 when I was in WA with the film crew - I rode in a car with Himmelsbach to Tena's bar.
Arriving at Tena's bar I knew this was not the place Duane took me to because he walked "down" to the water on a steep incline East of the Vancouver Bridge and not West. The woman felt that I did not remember all of the stops we made - and I do remember his pointing to the West at one point talking about marsh/swamp land - and I remembered a house and trees, because I argued with Himmelsbach about this...and why I thought in the beinging we were at Tena's bar. Things had changed in 2001 - and also it could have been the route they took out to Tena's...I should have tried to recreate this, but I got side track...on my 2010 trip.

Maybe someone will drop a bundle of money in my lap and the Creator will grant me a few days in Sept of 2011 - so I can do this. The weather was nasty in Oct 2010 when I was there, but I made the best of it and came home rather content.

STILL: I have unanswered questions and I think they are questions I unfortunately will NEVER know the answers to - I wish my recall was better, but then I pat myself on the back knowing most people can't recall their lives as well as I do.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[quade 4]

377, please see above.

I rest my case.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Quote

...Things are vastly different in the Oakland Center transcripts which also include the "phone talk" between controllers as they discuss the aircraft's location, intentions, and flight path. The Oakland transcripts contain all the information that is necessary to figure out what the controllers and flight crew are doing. Where is that information for the Seattle Center?

Robert Nicholson

It may not exist.
As in the conversations never took place. At least not in flight.

The plane was on the ground at Sea-Tac for some time. It's entirely possible the necessary conversations took place prior to takeoff on a different frequneecy than they used for normal ATC comm traffic.

Purely a guess on my part, but think about it. The FBI, ATC and the airline could easily have had these discussions over a landline. Also, the options were fairly limited if they were going to follow the instructions Cooper gave. As Sluggo has made clear, V23 was the only real option.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[JamieCooper 0]

Quote

.
STILL: I have unanswered questions and I think they are questions I unfortunately will NEVER know the answers to - I wish my recall was better, but then I pat myself on the back knowing most people can't recall their lives as well as I do.

and why should we think ur memory is better than others?
whats this actually suggest?

[quade 4]

Quote

Quote

.
STILL: I have unanswered questions and I think they are questions I unfortunately will NEVER know the answers to - I wish my recall was better, but then I pat myself on the back knowing most people can't recall their lives as well as I do.

and why should we think ur memory is better than others?
whats this actually suggest?

And why should we think your memories are better than hers?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[JamieCooper 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

.
STILL: I have unanswered questions and I think they are questions I unfortunately will NEVER know the answers to - I wish my recall was better, but then I pat myself on the back knowing most people can't recall their lives as well as I do.

and why should we think ur memory is better than others?
whats this actually suggest?

And why should we think your memories are better than hers?

you shouldn't and I've never suggested so.
however, everything that anyone has checked out about my story has produced proof.
I haven't asked anyone to take my story on faith, which is also why I see no threat from any other claims out there.
like I said when I first started posting here.
it doesn't matter if you like me or not.
if you want to solve the case eventually someone is going to have to at least compare the fingerprints or look for that briefcase.
I didn't set the parameters for reality, and I don't want anyone to just take my word for anything, never have.

[377 22]

jamie wrote:

Quote

and while theyre at it, get a search warrant and see if the briefcase is still in the attic I last saw it put into

Jamie,

No judge would issue a search warrant based on what I've seen so far. The connections to evidence of a crime are waaaay too tenuous. A search warrant is obtained by means of an affidavit and the affidavit has to have some meat to it.

Search warrants require probable cause, oath or affirmation, and a particular description of the place and object of the search to meet constitutional requirements. A judge may issue a search warrant only after reviewing a sworn statement of facts showing probable cause to search a particular place for particular items. The standard for probable cause is objective, meaning that there is sufficient information to persuade a reasonable person that a certain place contains evidence of a crime. (from a website on search warrants)

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[quade 4]

Quote

. . . and I don't want anyone to just take my word for anything, never have.

That's not entirely true.

At least Jo is a known quantity. People can verify she is who she says she is. To my knowledge, you've not provided any details we can use to even verify who you say you are.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[377 22]

Quote

377, please see above.

I rest my case.

Man, if I didnt know better I'd say you manipulated the timing of those posts.

Somewhere amidst all the noise, there lurks a signal.
You can tune around, hear all the random static and smugly conclude that there is nothing worth searching for, then bingo, it pops out for the guy who kept tuning and listening. Ham radio operators like Snowmman, Guru and Georger know the feeling. SETI researchers hope for it.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[JamieCooper 0]

Quote

Quote

. . . and I don't want anyone to just take my word for anything, never have.

That's not entirely true.

At least Jo is a known quantity. People can verify she is who she says she is. To my knowledge, you've not provided any details we can use to even verify who you say you are.

if the prints are in the Willie vocks casefile, and/or the briefcase shows up where I said it was, and the case is solved.
why should it matter who I am?

[skyjack71 0]

Jason States:

Quote

after checking out google street view I'm thinking the tavern in Amboy is the most likily candidate for where my father said he went after the jump.

I was in Amboy in October and I stopped and talked to a couple OLD Timers there. Give Me a break - the last place Cooper would go is a BAR in Amboy on that night.

How would you use an airstrip without an accomplice and without a plane and without transportation. You do know Amboy is a very rural and small place and in 1971 was just a turn in the road with a couple of stores...not much bigger now.

You talk about your father having chutes lying around - prove it. Where was your father in 1969 around Oct. Was he in Atlanta, GA, Ft. Benning, GA, NC, Columbia, SC, MO. LA or KS? Was he jumping at that time? What did your mother and father do together in those yrs? Who did they associate with and do you have pictures from those days?

Quote

we don't have prints from the JFK assassination

We also don't know if the latent prints were Cooper's or if they were on the plane since it was built...he left NO prints around his seat. The prints they used came from inside the Aft Stairway.

Quote

open the "Willie Vocks" case file and check for any prints of my father's.

All you have to do is contact the authorities in that case and ask them if they would pull your fathers prints and check them against prints in the case. I am sure some Cold Case desk clerk would be willing to do that.

Quote

Get a search warrant and see if the briefcase is still in the attic I last saw it put into

.

When the walk thru is done and something is there that does not go with the house it is removed or trashed. I have been a licensed real estate agent since 1979.

You do NOT have a single bit of evidence.

Study the case and the witness testimonies and the case over the yrs - Cooper was NOT wearing Make-up.

In fact study this thread - ALL of this had been discussed over and over and over...it is there for your pleasure or displeasure. Believe it or not - this thread has more reseach and information about the case than any one other location outside of the FBI files.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[quade 4]

Quote

Quote

Quote

. . . and I don't want anyone to just take my word for anything, never have.

That's not entirely true.
At least Jo is a known quantity. People can verify she is who she says she is. To my knowledge, you've not provided any details we can use to even verify who you say you are.

if the prints are in the Willie vocks casefile, and/or the briefcase shows up where I said it was, and the case is solved.
why should it matter who I am?

That's a lot of IFs.

Meanwhile, I have a personal aversion to doing work at the behest of people I don't know. It's impossible to know what their motivations are, because, well, you don't know who they are.

Lastly, because it proves you've already made a false statement, "I don't want anyone to just take my word for anything, never have."

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[JamieCooper 0]

why wouldn't DB Cooper go to a bar?
seriously, can you think of a single reason not to?
as for everything being gone from a walkthru?
Jo really, as a real estate agent walkthrus involve looking under floorboards and inside walls?
I doubt it.
the briefcase was hidden by the man who built the home.
He knew he was hiding it from both the police and my father.
he didn't just leave it lying on the floor.
later he claimed no knowledge of it, and then died.
it's very likily that it is still where he stashed it away.

[JamieCooper 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

. . . and I don't want anyone to just take my word for anything, never have.

That's not entirely true.
At least Jo is a known quantity. People can verify she is who she says she is. To my knowledge, you've not provided any details we can use to even verify who you say you are.

if the prints are in the Willie vocks casefile, and/or the briefcase shows up where I said it was, and the case is solved.
why should it matter who I am?

That's a lot of IFs.

Meanwhile, I have a personal aversion to doing work at the behest of people I don't know. It's impossible to know what their motivations are, because, well, you don't know who they are.

Lastly, because it proves you've already made a false statement, "I don't want anyone to just take my word for anything, never have."

lol and thats why the case remains unsolved.
seriously you consider me a liar because I'm saying the proof may be in a police file that existed before I was born?