DB Cooper

[377 22]

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I respectfully decline to respond. EOM

CaretakerAl= Al Cooper? Or is it Bob from Anoka MN?


377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[quade 4]

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. . . and I don't want anyone to just take my word for anything, never have.

That's not entirely true.
At least Jo is a known quantity. People can verify she is who she says she is. To my knowledge, you've not provided any details we can use to even verify who you say you are.

if the prints are in the Willie vocks casefile, and/or the briefcase shows up where I said it was, and the case is solved.
why should it matter who I am?

That's a lot of IFs.
Meanwhile, I have a personal aversion to doing work at the behest of people I don't know. It's impossible to know what their motivations are, because, well, you don't know who they are.

Lastly, because it proves you've already made a false statement, "I don't want anyone to just take my word for anything, never have."

lol and thats why the case remains unsolved.
seriously you consider me a liar because I'm saying the proof may be in a police file that existed before I was born?

Reread everything here. I didn't call you a liar and particularly about a police file.

I said you made a false statement, "I don't want anyone to just take my word for anything, never have."

And you have. You want us to take your word you are who you say you are, yet you've provided zero proof to that effect. You do, in fact, want us to take your word on it.

To deny it, is a false statement.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[JamieCooper 0]

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. . . and I don't want anyone to just take my word for anything, never have.

That's not entirely true.
At least Jo is a known quantity. People can verify she is who she says she is. To my knowledge, you've not provided any details we can use to even verify who you say you are.

if the prints are in the Willie vocks casefile, and/or the briefcase shows up where I said it was, and the case is solved.
why should it matter who I am?

That's a lot of IFs.
Meanwhile, I have a personal aversion to doing work at the behest of people I don't know. It's impossible to know what their motivations are, because, well, you don't know who they are.

Lastly, because it proves you've already made a false statement, "I don't want anyone to just take my word for anything, never have."

lol and thats why the case remains unsolved.
seriously you consider me a liar because I'm saying the proof may be in a police file that existed before I was born?

Reread everything here. I didn't call you a liar and particularly about a police file.

I said you made a false statement, "I don't want anyone to just take my word for anything, never have."

And you have. You want us to take your word you are who you say you are, yet you've provided zero proof to that effect. You do, in fact, want us to take your word on it.

To deny it, is a false statement.

and so I rest my case.
this forum is biased in favor of JO.

[quade 4]

Again, you've made a factually incorrect statement.

If you are who you say you are and you've only recently become aware of Jo's involvement on this web site, I might almost be able to forgive you for simply being naive about it.

However, nothing could be further from the truth.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Robert99 50]

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...Things are vastly different in the Oakland Center transcripts which also include the "phone talk" between controllers as they discuss the aircraft's location, intentions, and flight path. The Oakland transcripts contain all the information that is necessary to figure out what the controllers and flight crew are doing. Where is that information for the Seattle Center?

Robert Nicholson

It may not exist.
As in the conversations never took place. At least not in flight.

The plane was on the ground at Sea-Tac for some time. It's entirely possible the necessary conversations took place prior to takeoff on a different frequneecy than they used for normal ATC comm traffic.

Purely a guess on my part, but think about it. The FBI, ATC and the airline could easily have had these discussions over a landline. Also, the options were fairly limited if they were going to follow the instructions Cooper gave. As Sluggo has made clear, V23 was the only real option.

Wolf, The air traffic control people have a protocol for handing an aircraft from one enroute controller to another. By its very nature, this is done in flight and they must communicate by phone with each other to accomplish this (any exception to this would be under extraordinary circumstanes). This could not be done prior to takeoff.

The FBI does not have anything to do with air traffic control (except maybe make "requests"). The ATC and airline people could talk to each other by phone. But the only way to communicate with the airliner was by radio.

Note that the Oakland Center transcript includes both the "phone talk" between controllers but also much more detailed conversations with the aircraft. And this is not available in the Seattle Center transcript.

Robert Nicholson

[377 22]

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and so I rest my case.
this forum is biased in favor of JO.

She sure doesnt think so Jamie. Jo has endured far worse than has been thrown at you here. What's wrong with cutting a little extra slack to an older woman who is pursuing an obsession, that DW=DBC?
She isn't vicious, just obsessed. Perhaps biased would be a less derogatory characterization. She is harmless and actually a nice person, ask Sluggo if you do not believe me.

The forum can't by itself be biased, The posters can or the moderator can. Who are you pointing the finger at?

Please tell us more about your relative and his involvement with 727 jump tests in Asia. No reason to keep it secret and it may be of great interest.

In my opinion Cooper HAD to know that a 727 was jumpable. Not even the NWA 727 flight engineeer knew that it was. The crew had to contact Boeing tech ops to learn that it was possible to fly safely with the rear stairs deployed. How did Cooper know more about the plane than the cockpit crew did on this particular point? Could he have known about the Air America 727 drops?

Please give us some info.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Jamie Stated:

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if you want to solve the case eventually someone is going to have to at least compare the fingerprints or look for that briefcase.I didn't set the parameters for reality, and I don't want anyone to just take my word for anything, never have.

You are the ONLY one who can open the DOOR. YOU have to produce EVIDENCE. You have TO do YOUR own Research. Why keep repeating over and over the same thing - GO DO YOUR research - contribute something here rather than the same rambling statements you make over and over.

YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE! None!
Note - NOT ONE IOTA! You can't even produce pictures of yourself or dates regarding your father's past.

Open the DOOR! - or ARE YOU actually AFRAID of WHAT you WILL FIND?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

It has been pointed out to me that you don't have to discount Palmer's report to accept a dredge explanation for how the money made its way to Tena Bar.

I posted: " Snow has some pretty good ideas about this, but it requires you to conclude that Palmer's analysis was incorrect."


I was corrected:

No it doesn't.
You forget that Tena Bar was subject to 3 things
1) dredging
2) mechanical spreading by frontloader and maybe trucks
3) erosion and deposition effects by water.

All Palmer said was that clay from dredging spoils was below the money.

That doesn't preclude the money being moved from the bottom of the Columbia, to the shore, by the dredge.

Why is that hard to understand?

People seem to want to think of the dredging layer as one homogeneous mass/event, and that the money was clearly not in that event.

There's no evidence that says that. Palmer's report, as far as we know, doesn't say that. It says the money was above a clay layer.

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[quade 4]

To save me having to search for it, you wouldn't happen to have the lat-long for the exact spot at Tena's Bar where the bulk of the money was found handy, would you?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[377 22]

Sorry Quade I don't.

What's your theory of how the money got there?

Do you agree with me that it tends to suggest that Cooper didnt survive the jump?

Let Georger back on. He knows a lot about the Tena bar site.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[JamieCooper 0]

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and so I rest my case.
this forum is biased in favor of JO.

She sure doesnt think so Jamie. Jo has endured far worse than has been thrown at you here. What's wrong with cutting a little extra slack to an older woman who is pursuing an obsession, that DW=DBC?
She isn't vicious, just obsessed. Perhaps biased would be a less derogatory characterization. She is harmless and actually a nice person, ask Sluggo if you do not believe me.

The forum can't by itself be biased, The posters can or the moderator can. Who are you pointing the finger at?

Please tell us more about your relative and his involvement with 727 jump tests in Asia. No reason to keep it secret and it may be of great interest.

In my opinion Cooper HAD to know that a 727 was jumpable. Not even the NWA 727 flight engineeer knew that it was. The crew had to contact Boeing tech ops to learn that it was possible to fly safely with the rear stairs deployed. How did Cooper know more about the plane than the cockpit crew did on this particular point? Could he have known about the Air America 727 drops?

Please give us some info.

377

I'm withholding his name name because He is still alive, but with health problems.
He wouldn't realize he had any involvement with this case and it would be very hard for him to take, possibly even kill him.
in the film "Flying Me, Flying Machines"
I recognized my uncles voice in a segment, also the ceramic pagoda thing identifying the location as Japan.
there was a tradition between two companies stationed there to steal it and put in the office of the new Chief of operations shortly after he assumed the job.
it was a trophy of sorts reminding the other company who was in charge or some rivalry like that.
when my uncle was done and coming home, it was presented to him as a parting gift.
I also have a newspaper article that places him there until November of 1971.
the relevance of this is that He and my Father were friends and both being military men, involved with aviation, what would you guess they would chat about?

[quade 4]

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Let Georger back on. He knows a lot about the Tena bar site.

Georger's ban has expired. If he's not here, it's not my doing.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 4]

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What's your theory of how the money got there?
Do you agree with me that it tends to suggest that Cooper didnt survive the jump?

I don't think DB Cooper survived the night. He may have outright cratered. He may have simply sprained an ankle or gotten snagged in a tree, but either of those cases means he's easily set up to die of exposure before the night is through, which is something that still could have happened if he landed in perfect shape. I believe his landing area is somewhere up the watershed from where the money was found; that could be 2 feet or 20 miles, but I'd have to look at drainage divides to see what the extent of that would really be. Logic tells me the money didn't travel upstream. Game theory tells me it wasn't intentionally placed there by a human either that night or later.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

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[377 22]

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I'm withholding his name name because He is still alive, but with health problems.
He wouldn't realize he had any involvement with this case and it would be very hard for him to take, possibly even kill him.

I hope you will reconsider Jamie. You know better than I do what his condition is, but I cant see how a dialogue about this would harm him physically.

Hey, ask your uncle if he flew as FE on a USMC KC 130 (callsign prefix Quebec Bravo, suffix Zero One?)? It was based at El Toro MCAS right when he was there. I am sure about Quebec Bravo, less sure about zero one but it was two digits for sure.

If so, ask him if he was flying on it when it was contacted by the fishing vessel Echo Belle on HF, relaying a mayday from a tuna boat in distress near Midway Island?

He'd remember it if it hapened on his watch. The Herc did a phone patch through El Toro operations to USCG comm station Honolulu and got a successful rescue underway.

I was the guy who contacted the USMC Herc. I heard a very weak MAYDAY. I got the position and vessel info. We were hundreds of miles away and couldnt raise anyone on any marine channel so I called blindly "MAYDAY RELAY" on a military HF channel (11179 KHz as I recall) and QB 01 answered. After we passed the essential info the KC 130 radio op told me they were tanking Marine helicopters off the coast of Orange County in CA.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[JamieCooper 0]

He doesn't like t be asked about anything He did in the military unless its about something He brings up.
has flashbacks and such so it's really a touchy subject.

[Amazon 7]

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why wouldn't DB Cooper go to a bar?
seriously, can you think of a single reason not to?
as for everything being gone from a walkthru?
Jo really, as a real estate agent walkthrus involve looking under floorboards and inside walls?
I doubt it.
the briefcase was hidden by the man who built the home.
He knew he was hiding it from both the police and my father.
he didn't just leave it lying on the floor.
later he claimed no knowledge of it, and then died.
it's very likily that it is still where he stashed it away.

DUUUUUUUDE the chances of a guy in a SUIT walking into ANY bar within 30 miles of that LZ is ZIP He would stand out about as much as one of those loggers showing up in flannels with high water cut off levi's and wearin his corks to The Met for La Traviata

[EVickiW 0]

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Vicki,

How was the dumped couterfeit money traced to your Dad?

377

Hey 377, I was going back and looking at old posts and missed this question you asked of me. Here is an article in the Capital Times, Madison Wisconsin about the find on the banks of the Mississippi River.

The story is titled "Say Arrest Here Will Halt Huge Counterfeit Ring":https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.4&thid=12c5d53d31cb6378&mt=application/pdf&url=https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui%3D2%26ik%3D6278d1bd1b%26view%3Datt%26th%3D12c5d53d31cb6378%26attid%3D0.4%26disp%3Dattd%26zw&sig=AHIEtbQ7aqshx7LrxnNqJQUZ_pphhVYqOQ

it is continued on: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.3&thid=12c5d53d31cb6378&mt=application/pdf&url=https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui%3D2%26ik%3D6278d1bd1b%26view%3Datt%26th%3D12c5d53d31cb6378%26attid%3D0.3%26disp%3Dattd%26zw&sig=AHIEtbQzd7bO-iif0EKV_93W1pfWiXW59g

and the article that shows the tie between the two.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.2&thid=12c5d53d31cb6378&mt=application/pdf&url=https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui%3D2%26ik%3D6278d1bd1b%26view%3Datt%26th%3D12c5d53d31cb6378%26attid%3D0.2%26disp%3Dattd%26zw&sig=AHIEtbRsrw7F8avpw_X8-kBWtK8Itt_YuQ

Vicki

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[quade 4]

Thanks man.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[377 22]

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He doesn't like t be asked about anything He did in the military unless its about something He brings up.
has flashbacks and such so it's really a touchy subject.

This event took place in peacetime and involved a rescue of civilians.
Hard to see how that would give him unpleasant flashbacks, but you know him and I don't. If you want to tread lightly how about just asking him if be was FE on an El Toro based KC 130 with a QB callsign in the 70s.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[JamieCooper 0]

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why wouldn't DB Cooper go to a bar?
seriously, can you think of a single reason not to?
as for everything being gone from a walkthru?
Jo really, as a real estate agent walkthrus involve looking under floorboards and inside walls?
I doubt it.
the briefcase was hidden by the man who built the home.
He knew he was hiding it from both the police and my father.
he didn't just leave it lying on the floor.
later he claimed no knowledge of it, and then died.
it's very likily that it is still where he stashed it away.

DUUUUUUUDE the chances of a guy in a SUIT walking into ANY bar within 30 miles of that LZ is ZIP He would stand out about as much as one of those loggers showing up in flannels with high water cut off levi's and wearin his corks to The Met for La Traviata

all he said was that he went to a bar drank and found a ride from the bar.
didn't say what he was wearing, I didn't know what he was even talking about at the time. or I would have asked for more details I guess. for all I know he could have stopped at a couple barns, or a church, or any number of places in the area and changed clothes.
the main point of the conversation wasn't how he pulled it off, it was that I shouldn't follow in his footsteps. it's not like he sat me down and said, son let me tell you how I hijacked an airplane and stole a bunch of money.
my mother led him to believe i already knew then handed the phone to me and he made excuses and gave a very abbreviated rundown pre-supposing I knew the whole story already. when the reality was I had no idea what he was talking about other than stealing money and jumping out of an airplane with it and how he wished he hadn't but "so I stole the money, they stole it from us first", "noone was hurt", "sometimes you gotta break the rules", "they owed us that, at least that", "you don't know how things are gonna turn out ahead of time", "later you find out you were wrong", " didn't hurt anyone for it", "when things get rough you just keep going", "you know how they are in the bars, so I made friends and got a ride"... and alot more rambling sometimes sounding proud others sounding regretful.

I'm not sure but I think this may have been the conversation where it was decided that I would take an assumed name also?
I remember him giving me names to pick from. weird how memories are fractal sometimes.

[skyjack71 0]

SafeCrack had them in one of his posts, but heaven only knows how far back. I remember he was working on the Palmer Report..... Galen Cook also has that information - if anyone wants to ask him. Georger and Sluggo may have them.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

Jamie,

Might you have made a mistake on your timing calculations?

See below:

His uncle (mother's side?) joined the marines in 1955, after graduating from the same high school Jamie went to.

17 years later, he was home for Christmas.

1955 + 17 = 1972, the year after the hijacking.

Not 1971

Ask Jamie to explain:

The newspaper article he posted confirms the 1955 + 17 equation.


If his uncle wasn't home before the 1971 hijacking, how did he discuss the 727 jump capability with his father?

Also, the uncle's last name has 5 letters. i.e. it's not "Cooper".

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[JamieCooper 0]

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Jamie,

Might you have made a mistake on your timing calculations?

See below:

His uncle (mother's side?) joined the marines in 1955, after graduating from the same high school Jamie went to.

17 years later, he was home for Christmas.

1955 + 17 = 1972, the year after the hijacking.

Not 1971

Ask Jamie to explain:

The newspaper article he posted confirms the 1955 + 17 equation.


If his uncle wasn't home before the 1971 hijacking, how did he discuss the 727 jump capability with his father?

Also, the uncle's last name has 5 letters. i.e. it's not "Cooper".

it was 17 years but at the end of the 17th, thus 1971.
either way, they had phones and letters in those days.
my mother said they used to send tape recordings back and forth too.
even if it was 1972, He was there for 3 years.
I didn't say my Uncle was a Cooper.

[skyjack71 0]

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why wouldn't DB Cooper go to a bar?
seriously, can you think of a single reason not to?

Amazon replied with:

"DUUUUUUUDE the chances of a guy in a SUIT walking into ANY bar within 30 miles of that LZ is ZIP He would stand out about as much as one of those loggers showing up in flannels with high water cut off levi's and wearin his corks to The Met for La Traviata"

Amazon, I wish I was good with the words like that. You know what Amboy is and so do I as of Oct of 2010. The 2 guys I spoke to looked like homeless guys, but they were very polite. I didn't go in the bar - as the only time I do that is if I am someplace and the only place to get something to eat is in the bar.

When I arrived n OR that first night the only restuarant in walking distance was closed and the only place to get something to eat was in the bar. So I had breakfast for dinner. I did not pick-up the rental until the next morning because I knew I would be too tired upon arrival - I know my limitations.

By the way I stayed that night and the night before departing OR at the old Rodeway Inn - it is now The Red Lion Airport.

A real twist because you know the Rodeway was the hotel the night clerk worked in...and that is why I stayed there. The Red Lion in Vancouver is where he pitched the paper bag. I just thought it was an interesting fact that both places are NOW Red Lions.


Now back to Jamie - he posted these phrases:

"so I stole the money, they stole it from us first", "noone was hurt", "sometimes you gotta break the rules", "they owed us that, at least that", "you don't know how things are gonna turn out ahead of time", "later you find out you were wrong", " didn't hurt anyone for it", "when things get rough you just keep going", "you know how they are in the bars, so I made friends and got a ride"... and alot more rambling sometimes sounding proud others sounding regretful

So HOW old was Jamie when all of this is told to him - was he still a child? Who is Noone (remember I have been looking for a man with a similar name - it is in the thread). Duane had told me he used to know a man in the Vancouver area - it was something like Nooten, Newton, Newsome, Neustel.....others can look it up and I communicated with a man who has a DZ in Or about the man. Since my memory was vacant except for possible names listed above - that search never went anywhere.

I am sure Knoss probably spoke of this in on his FACE book and/or other mediums. I did discuss this with Knoss and ran the name past him. Outside of Duane knowing a man in the Vancouver area by one of the sound-ing names - who knows.

Too much of Jason's story has been tainted by time and his communications with others. One thing stood out "they owed us". This fits the trained and then cancelled profile of a CIA operation that just didn't happen. Although Caretaker claimes they did do it???? I don't think so - one man and maybe an accomplice pulled this off.

Regarding the walk-thru. Any repairs that would have been done and not up to pare would be noted. Most of the homes I sold had inspections prior to acceptance of the contracts - I often paid for these to protect myself.

NO one (not even the President) is going to order a home dismanteled with the information Jason provided. Surely this man had relatives?

The information I asked Jason to provide is simple and straight forward unless he just wants to extend the DRAMA...I may know the information he might need to know...but without the requested information I asked for there is NO way I can help him

Pictures and vital information to me is NOT dangerous - they would be destroyed if not related to what I am looking for. Remember I got this information from 3 different sources over a 30 yr period of time and all of it was the same. I could do this with the DNA he provided, but that DNA report is incomplete for the kind of comparison that will need to be done...and it is not verifiable.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber