DB Cooper

[quade 4]

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This is a possible scenario. But there are a couple of questions about it. I still believe one of the key points of the money find is the AMOUNT.

Did you read what Georger wrote about the total mass? He said that by all accounts it was at least twice that, but the $5800 was the amount that was what could be pieced together into recognizable bills.

In any case, the reason i posted that bit was to show there is a way the money could get there without human intervention. Jo had claimed it was impossible. That's clearly wrong.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 4]

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I'm not challenging your theory.

It's not even a theory. Simply a statement to refute another about it being an impossibility that they arrived there by any other means than human intervention.

See, to me that's one of the bigger problems some people have here. They have pet theories and to them any other possibility is "impossible." When people have a lack of imagination and are only focused on their own pet theories, they have a tendency to exclude facts that might be helpful.

For instance, if a person thinks they KNOW a particular person was DB Cooper and that person was alive after the event took place, then they tend to exclude anything that suggests DB Cooper didn't survive the night. To them, the money at Tena Bar could ONLY have gotten there through human intervention.

Well, that's just not the case.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[hangdiver 1]

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For instance, if a person thinks they KNOW a particular person was DB Cooper and that person was alive after the event took place, then they tend to exclude anything that suggests DB Cooper didn't survive the night. To them, the money at Tena Bar could ONLY have gotten there through human intervention.

Well, that's just not the case.

I'll bet you a nickel it got there by human intervention.

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[JamieCooper 0]

dredging is also human intervention

[JamieCooper 0]

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This is a possible scenario. But there are a couple of questions about it. I still believe one of the key points of the money find is the AMOUNT.

Did you read what Georger wrote about the total mass? He said that by all accounts it was at least twice that, but the $5800 was the amount that was what could be pieced together into recognizable bills.

In any case, the reason i posted that bit was to show there is a way the money could get there without human intervention. Jo had claimed it was impossible. That's clearly wrong.

Okay. Twice that amount. That still leaves a whopping 94 packages of twenty-dollar bills unaccounted for out of a hundred packs.

Without dredging being the means of how the money ended up there, then you still have to believe that six bundles (or so) managed to land together at the same exact spot on the riverbank. And if they floated down the river in separate packs, this is a tough sell. And if they floated down the river together in the canvas bag...it's STILL a tough sell, because if most of it arrived there together, you have to ask where the other 94 packs went.

I also wonder what the chances are that the found bills (after dredging) would somehow end up within a few inches of the surface. Didn't somebody say the dredge results were spread along the beach after they were pulled from the river and dumped? Wonder why no one saw a bill then, if they were so close to the surface?

I'm not challenging your theory. It's a question, really. Truth is, I don't have the answer either.

twice the amount is pure speculation.
an educated guess is still just a guess. fragments the size of a quarter? whose to say some weren't from the same bills?
I agree some have a preconceived idea of what happened including death in the river, and allow their personal theory to justify fudging facts.
decomposed mass? no one knows how much was there. Blevins theory could be dead on correct!
no way to prove it though.
my biggest problems with the KC theory are his height, eye color, and probability that he should have been recognized by industry peers.
also the idea that it was coordinated with accomplices on the ground is really hard to swallow.
it actually goes too far into improbability.
while my "theory" involving my father has it's problems, they are easily explainable in a plausible manner, for example the age estimates are simply that, guesses.
eye color, not so much a guess. height? usually easier to guess than age or blood type for that matter.
I'm frequently able to pass for being in my 20's and I'm in my 40's. this happens more often than not by the way.
when My 22 year old daughter introduces me to people as her father, they always call us liars, even when other verify our relationship.
my father could have passed for being in his 40's at the time easily.
especially if he suggested he was older than he was on purpose. for example used dated expressions...ect.

biggest problems with Jo's theory.
she remembers the event too clearly given the relevance at the time it happened.
why would her mind pick out and store away DW tossing a paper bag with unknown contents into the river?
and even if the memory is accurate, how does that make the leap from simply a paper bag to being at least 3 bundles of money thats found at Tena bar?
add to this her overzealous proclamations and flat out attacks to defend this stance and the whole story ends up hinging on a deathbed confession by a man whose mental state wouldn't be reliable enough to be accepted in a legal transaction.

[georger 244]

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This is a possible scenario. But there are a couple of questions about it. I still believe one of the key points of the money find is the AMOUNT.

Did you read what Georger wrote about the total mass? He said that by all accounts it was at least twice that, but the $5800 was the amount that was what could be pieced together into recognizable bills.

In any case, the reason i posted that bit was to show there is a way the money could get there without human intervention. Jo had claimed it was impossible. That's clearly wrong.

The $5800 quoted by the FBI is based on 290 unique serial numbers identified by the FBI.
The original list was updated but is classified,
but added at least 30 more serial numbers,
possibly more. When Brian turned his fragments over to the auction company the restorationist
there was able to identify somewhere between
12-15 more serial numbers not previously counted.
(Brian could elaborate on this). The insurance company was able to add more serial numbers
not originally counted; their list is classified.

All of the above in addition to frags collected and
not collected, which may or may not represented unique serial nos. not counted.

Add to that the biodegraded 'mush' at the site
which represents who knows how many bills not
accounted for.

All of the above is actual physical evidence.

[JamieCooper 0]

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This is a possible scenario. But there are a couple of questions about it. I still believe one of the key points of the money find is the AMOUNT.

Did you read what Georger wrote about the total mass? He said that by all accounts it was at least twice that, but the $5800 was the amount that was what could be pieced together into recognizable bills.

In any case, the reason i posted that bit was to show there is a way the money could get there without human intervention. Jo had claimed it was impossible. That's clearly wrong.

The $5800 quoted by the FBI is based on 290 unique serial numbers identified by the FBI.
The original list was updated but is classified,
but added at least 30 more serial numbers,
possibly more. When Brian turned his fragments over to the auction company the restorationist
there was able to identify somewhere between
12-15 more serial numbers not previously counted.
(Brian could elaborate on this). The insurance company was able to add more serial numbers
not originally counted; their list is classified.

All of the above in addition to frags collected and
not collected, which may or may not represented unique serial nos. not counted.

Add to that the biodegraded 'mush' at the site
which represents who knows how many bills not
accounted for.

All of the above is actual physical evidence.

can we be sure the mush would be decomposed bills?

[georger 244]

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This is a possible scenario. But there are a couple of questions about it. I still believe one of the key points of the money find is the AMOUNT.

Did you read what Georger wrote about the total mass? He said that by all accounts it was at least twice that, but the $5800 was the amount that was what could be pieced together into recognizable bills.

In any case, the reason i posted that bit was to show there is a way the money could get there without human intervention. Jo had claimed it was impossible. That's clearly wrong.

Okay. Twice that amount. That still leaves a whopping 94 packages of twenty-dollar bills unaccounted for out of a hundred packs.

Without dredging being the means of how the money ended up there, then you still have to believe that six bundles (or so) managed to land together at the same exact spot on the riverbank. And if they floated down the river in separate packs, this is a tough sell. And if they floated down the river together in the canvas bag...it's STILL a tough sell, because if most of it arrived there together, you have to ask where the other 94 packs went.

I also wonder what the chances are that the found bills (after dredging) would somehow end up within a few inches of the surface. Didn't somebody say the dredge results were spread along the beach after they were pulled from the river and dumped? Wonder why no one saw a bill then, if they were so close to the surface?

I'm not challenging your theory. It's a question, really. Truth is, I don't have the answer either.

Several points:

The dredge material (2 separate piles) were
presumably spread over an area of 50 yards
linear (parallel to the river). That was in the
contract and testified to by the Army Corps.
The Fazios had to wait for the material to
settle before they could spread. Al Fazios says
the bulk of the spreading was toward the south.

I think the coordinates I gave place the Ingram
bundles just off the northeast section of the
north-most dredge pile.

Prior to the Ingram find no one noticed any money
(or artifacts related to this case) anywhere on Tina
(Tena) Bar ... at any time. Think about that.

However the money got to Tina Bar, and whenever
it got there, nobody noticed money on Tina Bar at any time up until Feb of 1980. Once the excavation
began subsurface fragments were seen (and collected) very easily. The fragments raked from
just below the surface looked like "clean crisp
pieces of $20 dollar bills - easily recognizable".

1978 had been a very dry year, a drought. '78
broke in December with storms and heavy rains
and some flooding at Tina Bar. This in combination
with thefact no one had ever seen any money on
Tina Bar before is what lead to several people
telling the FBI they thought the Cooepr money
arrived at Tina Bar in 1979, just before the discovery
in 1980. That is the standard theory to date.

[skyjack71 0]

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This is a possible scenario. But there are a couple of questions about it. I still believe one of the key points of the money find is the AMOUNT.

Did you read what Georger wrote about the total mass? He said that by all accounts it was at least twice that, but the $5800 was the amount that was what could be pieced together into recognizable bills.

In any case, the reason i posted that bit was to show there is a way the money could get there without human intervention. Jo had claimed it was impossible. That's clearly wrong.

I don't believe it was impossible for the money to get on Tena's bar in other ways - I just know he watched that bag float down the river from the I-5 bridge (the old one) and what size it was and it could well have held more than 3 stacks of money. It was the size of what we now consider a large lunch bag and NOT the little one. I don't even know how thick the money stacks were as I have not asked, but I am now. Then and only then would I be able to estimate how many bundles could have fit in that bag...and I know the top was folded over about 3 times.

I believe if Cooper was hanging in a tree as you suggested the money would have been scattered from yay to yonder. The people searching were constantly looking up and Cooper searchers for yrs looked up thinking the very same thing you proposed. I really believe if Cooper snagged in a tree - other parts of the chute and other debris would have been found over the past 39 yrs.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 244]

can we be sure the mush would be decomposed bills?

[Orange1 0]

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And then I saw this by Skyjack 71:

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'I just know he watched that bag float down the river from the I-5 bridge (the old one) and what size it was and it could well have held more than 3 stacks of money...'

Did you see him put money into the bag? If not, how do you know it was money and not leftovers from a visit to McDonald's? Seems like a reasonable question.

Actually the more pertinent question is if she even saw him watch a bag in the first place. There seem to be an awful lot of things Jo "just knows".

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[JamieCooper 0]

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can we be sure the mush would be decomposed bills?

visual and chemical tests would make this an easy identification. plus, there are some advantages to
dealing with a ground up mixture of a thing; makes
assays easier (in bulk). Harold and Pat Ingram
described 'decayed material' being in the vicinity
of the found money. So obviously they probed and inspected the area where the bundles were pulled from and very likely they were observing decayed
money or perhaps a combination of decayed cotton
fibres and some biological material. The group Brian pulled out was wet.

[georger 244]

Harold and Pat Ingram are the parents of the boy who found the money right?
are you basing this notion that the mush might have been cotton fibres and/or biological from their opinions?
,photos? or some kind of tests?

[SKYWHUFFO 1]

Robert,

In my old age I am trying to set my DVR, (dangerous task for us old guys). What is the date and time for the History channel upcoming show?

[smokin99 0]

http://www.examiner.com/coast-to-coast-radio-in-national/galen-cook-reveals-evidence-of-db-cooper-identity

http://www.examiner.com/coast-to-coast-radio-in-national/galen-cook-says-db-cooper-will-be-identified-2011

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[EVickiW 0]

a quote from the articles that 99 linked -

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The fourth letter was sent to the Reno Evening Gazette and published on Friday, December 3, 1971. That letter said, “Plan ahead for retirement income. Signed, DB Cooper.” Interestingly enough, this fourth letter was mailed on November 22, 1971, from Oakdale, California, where Gossett had been living, a couple of days before the hijacking.

Cook believes that Gossett/Cooper sent this final letter to Reno because it was the place the plane landed after the hijacking.

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This makes no sense. According to the F.B.I files on D.B. Cooper, he gave the name Dan Cooper and D.B. was a moniker that stuck because the press printed it by mistake. How could a letter be sent to Reno 2 days prior to the hijacking with a name that was a mistake? In addition, Cooper asked the plane be flown to Mexico.....Reno was a detour for more fuel. A decision made "on the fly". I might not be a lawyer or a scientist, but this looks a little "wonky".

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[smokin99 0]

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a quote from the articles that 99 linked - ***The fourth letter was sent to the Reno Evening Gazette and published on Friday, December 3, 1971. That letter said, “Plan ahead for retirement income. Signed, DB Cooper.” Interestingly enough, this fourth letter was mailed on November 22, 1971, from Oakdale, California, where Gossett had been living, a couple of days before the hijacking.

Cook believes that Gossett/Cooper sent this final letter to Reno because it was the place the plane landed after the hijacking.

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This makes no sense. According to the F.B.I files on D.B. Cooper, he gave the name Dan Cooper and D.B. was a moniker that stuck because the press printed it by mistake. How could a letter be sent to Reno 2 days prior to the hijacking with a name that was a mistake? In addition, Cooper asked the plane be flown to Mexico.....Reno was a detour for more fuel. A decision made "on the fly". I might not be a lawyer or a scientist, but this looks a little "wonky".

Yeah i saw that too. I thought at first it was a typo and maybe they meant December 22 -- since they were talking about the fourth letter. But, looking again, I agree, it sure reads funny. I didn't listen to the interview, though - just read the article.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[JamieCooper 0]

even if Gossett sent these taunting letters, does that make him the skyjacker?
not unless the prints match imo

[EVickiW 0]

I read that Gossett was a Police Officer. During my schooling for Criminal Justice, I had a professor that once stated; police officers would make good criminals, but the have morals and a conscious. This is one reason they can "see" and understand criminal behavior.

Gossett probably sent the letters......bring a little excitement to his job/career. The letter that was sent prior to the hijacking was probably back postmarked on an office stamping machine in the mail-room of the precinct.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[smokin99 0]

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a quote from the articles that 99 linked - ***The fourth letter was sent to the Reno Evening Gazette and published on Friday, December 3, 1971. That letter said, “Plan ahead for retirement income. Signed, DB Cooper.” Interestingly enough, this fourth letter was mailed on November 22, 1971, from Oakdale, California, where Gossett had been living, a couple of days before the hijacking.

Cook believes that Gossett/Cooper sent this final letter to Reno because it was the place the plane landed after the hijacking.

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This makes no sense. According to the F.B.I files on D.B. Cooper, he gave the name Dan Cooper and D.B. was a moniker that stuck because the press printed it by mistake. How could a letter be sent to Reno 2 days prior to the hijacking with a name that was a mistake? In addition, Cooper asked the plane be flown to Mexico.....Reno was a detour for more fuel. A decision made "on the fly". I might not be a lawyer or a scientist, but this looks a little "wonky".

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Yeah i saw that too. I thought at first it was a typo and maybe they meant December 22 -- since they were talking about the fourth letter. But, looking again, I agree, it sure reads funny. I didn't listen to the interview, though - just read the article.

According to the Reno Gazette of Friday Dec 3 and I've paraphrased: They received this letter on Thursday (which would be Dec 2). The newspaper says it was mailed Wednesday,(which would be Dec 1). It was postmarked US Postal Service CA 956 which means the letter was cancelled in Sacramento, but could have been mailed at any one of 50 or so post offices in the Sacramento area.

Unless Gossett was psychic...looks like another case of someone getting over excited trying to connect dots.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[JamieCooper 0]

this whole Gosset thing is asinine. have you seen the altered FBI sketches on the web, they've altered to look like Gossett?
should almost be considered tampering with evidence.

[smokin99 0]

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even if Gossett sent these taunting letters, does that make him the skyjacker?
not unless the prints match imo

No more than smoking raleighs, buying stuff beyond ones means, throwing bags in rivers, confessing, or any of the other myriad anecdotal tidbits that have been related on this forum over the years...But you have to admit it would be a pretty interesting turn of events.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[JamieCooper 0]

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even if Gossett sent these taunting letters, does that make him the skyjacker?
not unless the prints match imo

No more than smoking raleighs, buying stuff beyond ones means, throwing bags in rivers, confessing, or any of the other myriad anecdotal tidbits that have been related on this forum over the years...But you have to admit it would be a pretty interesting turn of events.

lol
not so interesting to me. they've doctored actual evidence numerous times and posted it all over the web to support this BS story.
the truth requires no lies.
this is why I'm so adamant about maintaining the integrity of the evidence.
I know people like to call my claims anecdotal but come on.
how stupid would I have to be to claim my father was DB Cooper and then give info about a murder case he was a suspect in, if I didn't expect the prints in the case file to match? or give the last known location of the briefcase if I was making it up?
my story wouldn't be all that hard to prove one way or the other if the right people were to investigate it.
and my story doesn't require altering any of the evidence.
it does however call in to question the handwriting (believed to be Hal's) on the ticket.
suspicious how it bears so many similarities to my fathers signature.
I'd love to get a look at another example of Hal's writing from something outside this case for comparison.

[georger 244]

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my story wouldn't be all that hard to prove one way or the other if the right people were to investigate it.
and my story doesn't require altering any of the evidence.

Find that briefcase and produce a Cooper $20
and I assure you the world will sit up and pay
attention. Short of that, its just another story -
right?

[JamieCooper 0]

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my story wouldn't be all that hard to prove one way or the other if the right people were to investigate it.
and my story doesn't require altering any of the evidence.

Find that briefcase and produce a Cooper $20
and I assure you the world will sit up and pay
attention. Short of that, its just another story -
right?

I agree
but don't ignore the vocks murder case file either. could be prints that match the ones from norjack there too.

the last place I saw that briefcase was going into an attic right down the street from where i live right now.
lol
I see the house every day. many years now I've spent hoping to get a peek inside that damn attic.
you have no idea how frustrating it is.
every few years someone claims they solved the case, and I breathe a sigh of relief, then every time, it turns out it's BS.
while I've sat here with the knowledge I've had since I could talk. if my parents were just making it up, they did a hell of a job doing so, and somehow managed to keep it within the perimeters of the available evidence better than they should have been able to.
not to mention what a long term scam it wold be to keep it secret like they did for the most part even going to the point of having me use an assumed name, and ultimately with no payoff.
as far as i know I'm the only person other than my mother who my father admitted it to, he didn't like it when people accused him of being DB Cooper, like some seem to think here.
He denied it except for the one time to me.