DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

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Maybe the first time her brain registered "Dan Cooper" was when she read the Norjack book..i.e. a faulty memory, that got reinforced by the reading. The brain is a delicate thing. Jo may not know the answer, no matter how hard she tries to remember.

Dan Cooper - because I stated to him on that day "I know you used another name but I never heard that one." Which is why it stood out.

I knew about the John Collins name as I learned that in 1990 when he was arrested for trying to obtain a drivers license using false identification for John Collins. The highway patrol thought he was my father because of the age and the fact that the van was register to Jo---- Collins Weber.

Quote

It's interesting Jo mentions the transition to talking about the wallet with the John Collins info in the van.

There is nothing in that other than the fact that I knew about the John Collins name - it is a matter of public record in early 1990 in two counties.

I believe that I even denied knowing this at one time because of the embarrassment of having found out I was married to a 6 time felon.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

Does anyone besides me see an inherent contradiction here: a guy who gets arrested more than two dozen times, is convicted and sentenced many times and then assuming the same guy pulls off a mastermind crime that never has been solved?

Duane just doesnt seem like the guy who could have pulled it off judging by past performance at his chosen trade of crime. To be blunt, he just doesnt seem like a guy who could successfully conceive, plan and execute such a complex caper. Wolfgang DOES. That doesnt rule out Duane as Cooper or prove Wolfgang was Cooper, but it's another data point.

Jo does seem to blur the line between attacks on her evidentiary claims and attacks on her character. I think she is a sincere person who has suffered a lot. That doesn't mean we have to tread softly on her or anyone else's unsubstantiated Cooper claims, but try to spare the toxic venom, she really doesnt deserve it.

Tossed out or ripped off the foot... hard to say, there is no way a penny loafer would stay on the foot of a jumper exiting a jet. That windblast trys to strip off everything and succeeds if it isnt fastened tightly. I never had my goggles come loose on any jump before, but on the jet jump they were instantly stripped right off my face and would have been long gone but for hanging up on the helmet lip.

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Below is the statement he sent to me but I have removed his email address and last name:

Somewhere there is an email with the details of the evening and the next days interview. If I have lost it on the computer - I have a Hard Copy as other important things have come up missing in the past with the computer - I stumble around blindly with this thing:

Date: 12/29/2007 5:02:27 AM Central Standard Time

To: HOMES4UBYJO

Dear Jo, I will remind you that you may use my testimony in your behalf to help this to a satisfactory conclusion. It does seem strange to me that the " facts " are being ignored in this dance around the truth perhaps so some people can just save face for their ineptness. If you should feel so compelled I give you my permission to have 'proper ' authority contact me for the facts as I know them, and I will give my best attempt to set the disbelievers straight. Yours Sincerely, Charles ..........

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

I still haven't found the email with the details of the night and next day as best as he can remember the...but I will.

Date: 1/17/2008 9:12:52 PM Central Standard Time

To: HOMES4UBYJO

Dear Jo, I enjoy reading the excerpts from skeptics who were not there to give 'credence' to matters they have no first hand knowledge of. There was a registration card signed by " D B Cooper ". The name on that card was "------------" . I may have been only a 27 year old at that time but I still have a very good memory of that incident because of the 'questioning' that I received by the investigators involved that following evening when I came to work. My mind is as good now as it was then because I have kept it that way. I support you in your quest and have seen nothing as yet to doubt or question your evidence or my belief in that evidence as related to the facts as I know them to be true! I am not one for euphemisms as you know, however you can tell these non-believers that unless they have "been there-done that" they are just spreading their lies ,they know nothing, and they can go to hell! With my best wishes for your success,yours truly --------.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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He also used different dates of birth and Socials. Weber was arrested 26 times under the various names provided (arrests that were submitted to the FBI, there could have been more but for minor offenses) starting on 12/22/1942 and ending on 06/27/1976. All 26 arrest would have been processed by the sheriff's department were the arrest occurred or the United States Marshal Service (he committed a few federal crimes). One set of prints would have been maintained by the local arresting authority the other copy sent to the FBI.

I found that profound and to think I was embarassed about being married to a 6 time felon serving 17 yrs for those crimes - this is even worse. I knew about the 1976 arrest - he said he had a gun and he got a DUI.

What is actually causing me to do a double take is the fact that they didn't throw the book at him in 1976 - I thought it was illegal for a convicted felon to possess a gun.

How could they miss this - 26 arrests, that is an incorrigible - not someone you would want on the streets?

How and why except for that one time did he not get arrested and convicted after being released from Jefferson in 1968? Did he learn from past mistakes or did he just stay out of trouble?

I still don't understand the print thing and I read it several time - it makes it sound like that no prints belonging to Weber or his AKA's were on that resume. That is impossible...so I must not be understanding it.

I am trying to find the GOOD in all of this and the only good I see or read is that for some reason Duane changed his life style - Love or accident or by design - I don't know and even with the embarassement involved with this disclosure - I have to look at maybe just maybe he found someone who deserved better than he had to offer and for once in his life wanted to do the right thing.

I know I confronted him on many issues about right and wrong in our business and in our marriage, but had I know all of that I would have been gone - faster than a magician pulling a bunny out of a hat.

I still, even with all of this, more than ever believe he was Cooper - and that it was DUMB LUCK that he survived. When he did survive - he knew he could never go back. I don't believe he changed for me, I believe he changed out of fear - just like he said in the dream. He thought he had left prints.

Everything I find takes me back to my original words - he had nothing to loose and then he had everything to loose. He did not think he would survive that jump - it was his last Hoorah. Die a slow death by dialysis or a quick one doing the BIG one just like they talked about and planned in one of the many prisons... Jefferson.

Maybe it took someone Dumb to pull a stunt like that or desperate?
Maybe he wanted to go out in Glory either with the Jump or by claiming to be Cooper - except I have a problem with that - the stub, the ticket and the bag and the places he took me and showed me over a 17yr period. That is the part that is the hardest to get around...if he is ever proven not to be Cooper.

Until then I would like answers about the prints on the resume. Did I read that right? - no prints on the resume matched any file prints for Duane L. Weber...please don't just state what you think - verify that with the lab.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

The Joker (Weber) and the Priest (Gossett) - Cook is missing a good point here - a Duel - The ending is a big mystery - Will the Real Cooper Stand Up? Sitting on judgment at Gabriels door - they both stand-up. Well, I guess what is left of my sense of humor is still intact.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

I was researching C-124's cause they apparently were at McChord in the '50s, and since it was a big cargo plane that was also used for paratroops, I thought you loadmaster fanboys would be interested.

landed on a really interesting site covering military jumping in the '50s

http://home.hiwaay.net/~magro/paraindex.html

The site has a lot of stuff, but I loved these two:

Here's the caption for attached photo 1
"We had three waves of three planes each and 200 fully equipped men in each plane. After I had jumped and landed I looked up and saw over 1200 men still in the air.
I'll never forget that as long as I live. If we had been doing a combat jump the shear number of troopers would have scared hell out of the enemy. "

Here's the caption for attached photo 2
"The entry in my jump log reads; “ 1266 jumpers, no casualties “. What I remember most about that day was walking off two canopies before getting a clean piece of air to descend properly. The air was so thick with canopies the birds were forced to remain on the ground and walk."

Man, hats off to those guys!

[georger 247]

Thanks for the reply. Obviously the Seattle PI map of
Tena Bar is wrong. I attached a few correct which show the outline of the river from Washougal out beyond Tena Bar. I will assume the area opposite Tena Bar was searched, for some distance up and down stream.

Tena Bar sits on the right hand side of the river and even juts out (in dry periods) into a free flow field following the rather sharp right hand curve in the Columbia, prior to the channel involving Tena Bar.
(Fast deeper water flows to the outside of an arc, Slow more shallow water to the inside of an arc). These
remarks must be interpreted in the context of the Columbia being a wide river; during flood even wider.
But the the principles of flow and deposition are the same.

Debris in this situation would collect on the inside of the curve, then wash into the channel or even to the
opposte side depending on velocity and volume of flow, then be conveyed downstream some conveying to the sides (shorelines), again depending on time of year and velocity and flow.

The problem is "entry point" (above, from sides
proximate to Tena Bar, or further upstream as in the
Washougal hypothesis.) There may also be a fourth
option, as I read the maps, which is the Vancouver Lake area upstream and not too far behind Tena Bar.
If Tena Bar is affected by overflow from Vancouver Lake then that is a possible entry point, also.

I seriously doubt Tena Bar was the original deposit site
unless by accident money was dropped or buried further inland and it washed or eroded to that location,
apparently after dredging operations.

Only two things come to mind which might shed light on this matter.

I notice what appear to be 'worm holes' in the money?
I wonder if these holes penetrated the total stacks of
bills or were just superficial. Different worms leave different (hole) tracks and patterns, which might help
distinguish if money spent its time on land vs in the water.

BTW, the outer areas of the bills show relative
uniform wear in terms of erosion, rolling, and decay.
Notice the curved wear patterns at both ends of each bill. This is consistent with uniform wear from burying
vs one specific side of the bills being subject to directional wear (as bills sitting in stream wash). I tend
to agree with the poster who points to the lack of staining from water - in fact colour in several bills is still very bright. But the wear patterns suggest a uniform state of decay consistent with burying, unless
I am missing something.

Lastly, had it been me, I would have had some of these bills analysed under a microscope simply on the chance some clue in pollen, bacteria, or mineral deposits might turn up. In addition, I would have taken samples of some of these bills (outisde of stack vs inside protected in stack) and run some mass spectroscopy on the samples, just to see what turned up. You never know. Clues like this might shed light on their history.

That's enough for now - and thank you. I wish you all great luck in this quest.

George

[snowmman 3]

georger: you seem to have good expertise in a variety of areas.

I have attached cropped photos of the Ingram auction bills that are zoomable and higher resolution than anything we've seen from FBI (I think)

I've been curious about purple staining. I know that iodine tests are used to detect high starch levels in counterfeit bills. The discolored Ingram bills seem to have purple staining. I was wondering if there's any database on what causes different types of staining to the flax/cotton US bills.

Try zooming in on these. Some have the holes which I assumed were insect. You can zoom in a lot with these and maintain resolution.
[edit] Best to download them and then view them with a picture viewer tool like windows picture viewer or whatever..rather than just clicking with your browser.

[georger 247]

I've been curious about purple staining. I know that iodine tests are used to detect high starch levels in counterfeit bills. The discolored Ingram bills seem to have purple staining. I was wondering if there's any database on what causes different types of staining to the flax/cotton US bills.

Try zooming in on these. Some have the holes which I assumed were insect. You can zoom in a lot with these and maintain resolution.


Yes. I will give what expertise I have. The true experts
would be in the Treasury Dept or in the numismatic community, or Soetheby's, etc. Paper money is very specific in paper, dies, and techniques, aging, etc.
while also following the general rules of entropy.

These are good images. This is wet money vs dry
money decomposition. I see no sign of the money having been given a trace element or dye for tracing from its origin before Cooper. You see obvious (wet) oxydisation (yellow green), some signs of mildew
(fungal) dark blackish-grey staining, and the violet
suggests salt(s) contamination to my eye.Spectroscopy of the paper would answer all these questions. I know of no website with a data base which specifically addresses these issues.

The holes are interesting but also the areas of
degeneration peripheral on each bill. A palentologist
might make some sense of this, but more probably
there were larvae and other artifacts which came along with the stacks of bills and their flakes when found -
which might confirm nothing more than the money was found where it was found, and had been in-situ for
some time.

One last thing, I see no signs of stress in the money.
By this I mean a uniform deformation of the money
(through the bills) as from a collision or severe impact
which carries a stress or shock wave through an object (even a stack of paper or money or soft tissue). A number of years ago I saw a close photo of the stacks of money the Ingrams brought in, and then a photos of the money spread out, and I looked for any sign of stress or deformation in the bills (one to the others), and I could find none. I wondered about this vs. the
options of the money have dropped from the sky and hit earth, or been with Cooper hitting earth or water at
high velocity (eg. 32ft sec/sec). Now, a UV and possibly
an IR scan of the money might find stress pattern? Its a possibility but of course all of the money is now
distributed and far flung so no group analysis can be
done. A few bills could still be examined, just to say you did it!

Thank you Snowmman.

[Ckret 0]

Jo,

I thought you knew Duane's history, sorry for revealing that to you over the forum. None of the arrests were for violent crimes, I can post what he was arrested for or PM you.

In regard to the print examination, I didn't do it so it is not "what I think" it is what the lab is reporting. None of the prints on the resume matched those from flight 305 or Duane, five matched your prints.
They did say that to make a full analysis they needed more prints from you and Duane.

They are called "Major Case Prints" and involve taking prints from the side of the fingers, lower joint and palm.

As I wrote in an earlier post, they also used a set of Duane's prints from a 1944 arrest to compare with those from flight 305 with negative results.

[snowmman 3]

good stuff georger.

Another question for you, that you might have good thoughts on. {estimated minimum lifetime at Tena Bar}

We've heard stuff from I believe FBI, that indicated the crumbling state of the rubber bands also present at the find (not part of current evidence) was used to estimate a lifetime at Tena Bar. That's a whole nuther ball of wax.

BUT: We also know there were a lot of Bill Fragments from looking at the Ingram auction bills. And Brian has described the bill/bundle find in various ways, but suggesting they maybe were in a cohesive mass of some sort...i.e. not just that the 3 bundles were individually cohesive, but they may have had some sort of cohesive relationship when found.

I'm wondering if the combination of fragments and "meshing", would require a MINIMUM lifetime at Tena Bar, i.e. a certain amount of the decomposition had to happen there, otherwise it's unlikely all those fragments would be in a somewhat cohesive mass.

I only posted the best Ingram Bills. There are many smaller fragments. And there are some he's not currently auctioning. And there's the FBI bills, and I suppose the lost Lawyer/Insurance bills, since they divied up the loot after the court case was settled (6 years). So we don't have pics of many of the bills.

[Edit] Hmm. Ocean salt water wouldn't make sense? just looked at a map and Portland is too far from the ocean. Maybe salts from earth or sand? Tena Bar had dredge spoils. Could they have high salt content for some reason?
from http://www.nwd-wc.usace.army.mil/TMT/basin.html

Salt water intrusion into the Columbia River estuary reaches about 23 miles upstream from the mouth. The effects of tides upon the flow rate and level of the river are felt up to Bonneville Dam, river mile 146.1.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Quote

But - if Tina saw Cooper with the rig already on -it is probably safe to assume that if he had changed any of his attire to get ready for jumping (like shoes) she would have noticed?? or noticed discarded items of clothing (that could be tossed later) lying around?

In the 60's and 70's - men of that era including DUANE carried plastic slip overs - they were made of black rubber and came up to the ankle and snapped shut.

These should have secured his shoes. Some of these had a strap that came around making it even more secure and helped keep the water out. Duane always had a pair available until we came to FL.

Well, no witness mentioned those and there was a loafer found in the zone by a search party. I know you think that if it was Duane then surely he would have worn these, but that's not at all the same thing as "the hijacker was seen by a witness to have put slipovers over his shoes".

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Jo,

Duane's Master Set of prints on file with the fBI came from an arrest on 08/23/1944. These are the prints the lab used for comparison with the unknown fingerprints recovered from flight 305, with negative results.

Ckret, just to be absolutely clear here: we can assume that these prints in no way could have been altered by anything that may or may not have happened at Jefferson in 1968?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

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I do not remember where that information came from, but I am aware that someone stated that. But it is a fact that he WAS not in Prison or in Jail during those 3 months. [and then there is a whole long story about where he might have been]

Jo, the last time I mentioned this YOU stated that no-one knew where he was... period. Interesting how the story has changed. YOU stated, in a post on 10 April:

Quote

I have written documentation and tapes - NO ONE knows where Duane was from Nov 1971 til Feb of 1972.

The story has changed. You really in this instance cannot bang on about how you "never" change your stories.

I also agree with whoever said that it would be incredible that he got arrested all those times and yet somehow escaped arrest for this. In fact I would go further: the fact that he continued to be arrested AFTER the hijacking makes no sense, if you consider that such a stunt - if pulled by someone who was largely convicted of far more minor things till then - would no doubt have been "the big one" to set up for good. Yet we are meant to believe that the spoils of this highly risky caper were buried in a bucket to disintegrate, while the perpetrator then went back to a life of more mundane crime and arrests? How on earth does this make any sense at all?

I also agree with snowmman; I too am used to pulling arguments apart based on fact and logic, and it is in no way intended to be a personal attack on the person making those arguments.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Ckret 0]

Orange,

The prints that are taken from those arrested are stored by the FBI at our lab. On 01/17/97, the prints associated with Weber were placed on film and archived. A set of prints taken by the US Marshal's Service from an arrest in San Francisco on 08/23/1944 were fed into the AFIS (Automated Fingerprint Identification System) computer system to serve as Weber's Master Set. The ones used for comparisons.

The only way Duane could have altered this is if he was able to convince someone within the FBI to access the lab, locate his file and replace all of his prints.

The print cards would also have to be duplicated with the exact information from the old cards, to include the signatures of the arresting individual and Duanes'. In other words it didn't happen.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Orange,

The prints that are taken from those arrested are stored by the FBI at our lab. On 01/17/97, the prints associated with Weber were placed on film and archived. A set of prints taken by the US Marshal's Service from an arrest in San Francisco on 08/23/1944 were fed into the AFIS (Automated Fingerprint Identification System) computer system to serve as Weber's Master Set. The ones used for comparisons.

The only way Duane could have altered this is if he was able to convince someone within the FBI to access the lab, locate his file and replace all of his prints.

The print cards would also have to be duplicated with the exact information from the old cards, to include the signatures of the arresting individual and Duanes'. In other words it didn't happen.

Thanks for clarifying that so well! In other words there is no way any shenanigans in 1968, even if they happened, could have affected the prints you (FBI) have on file.

So that means... if no matching prints to Duane were found on the plane, it would be for the blindingly obvious and simple reason that there were none of his there.

Any idea when the fingerprint match vs Gosset will be done?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

He was a prison correctional officer, right? (from the obit) Would his prints have gone in as part of a background check during hiring? I would think even though he's dead, the prints would be "gettable" ??? possibly even without agreement from the family or Cook?

[edit] from obit:
He also worked as a correctional officer and administrative director of a confinement facility at the Davis County Sheriff's Office, Farmington, Utah

[edit] I'm not suggesting it's worth the trouble. Doesn't seem there's any evidence, really, right?

[edit] in fact, following orange1's kind of thinking, why would Gossett have stayed in the military after the hijack. See this 1973 photo of him getting a medal.
http://n467us.com/I%20Am%20D%20B%20Cooper_files/image021.jpg

[Orange1 0]

Quote

He was a prison correctional officer, right? (from the obit) Would his prints have gone in as part of a background check during hiring? I would think even though he's dead, the prints would be "gettable" ??? possibly even without agreement from the family or Cook?

[edit] from obit:
He also worked as a correctional officer and administrative director of a confinement facility at the Davis County Sheriff's Office, Farmington, Utah

[edit] I'm not suggesting it's worth the trouble. Doesn't seem there's any evidence, really, right?

The Depoe Bay article implied the family had offered the fingerprints to Agent Carr already.

As for lack of evidence.. well that hasn't stopped a fingerprint check before has it!!

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 247]

Let me make a few calls here and I will get back.
My rough estimate is at minimum 3 years which would
place those bills on the bar in 1977.

My actual thought is, the whole bag or a part of the bag with money was at Tena Bar and eroded from there leaving the remnant found in 1980. The problem with that theory is no part of the bag or even threads from the bag were found along with the money, so far as I know.

It is either that or the stacks of bills as a semi cemented block were "rolled up" on Tena Bar by the current because it hard to conceive of this 'wad' of wet
currency floating in any fashion. In deep water a wet
wad would sink (like a stone). So if it was a wad and it
rolled by action of current then it could only have rolled
across shallow terrain from up stream. It could not have rolled too far or the wad would have been destroyed. The probability of that wad (or any block of money) having rolled all the way from the Washougal is zero. So, the distance for rolling by action of current is relatively short for any given block of bills, once seperated from the bag. And it must be a rolling action
vs flotation.

Also: when I said salts I was referring to mineral salts
as opposed to HCl as in sea water. (I knew that would
come up the minute I said it).

I agree with Ckret. I believe the money is crucial. The
money "is the evidence", as it were (literally). I dont
believe it is any accident the money was found along the Columbia and I do not believe it washed down via
the Washougal or elsewhere. I think the fact of money
anywhere at the Columbia River is a direct link to
Cooper's bailout. I have two rather solid pieces of
evidence for believing this. The first has to do with
the mathematical probability of ever finding any of the
Cooper money at any specific location. And secondly,
Cooper's general behavior and the general flow of events as they happened aboard 305 after the takeoff
from Seatac.

I believe these two scenarios outlined above place a high probability of money or other evidence of Cooper
showing up near this general area of the Columbia. I
would be happy to explain this if you want me to.

In general I agree very closely with Ckret's assessment of Cooper as an individual, and the
outline of specific events which transpired on 305
from say 7:45 through to 8:20, thereabouts.

Let me make a few calls to gett corroboration about
decay of US currency and I will check back later.

Thanks again.

[snowmman 3]

more good thoughts georger.

In terms of scenarios that might align with the bundle positioning, but no bag, here's another that doesn't require bag decomposition, that I don't think was mentioned explicitly before.

Bag has some bundles, gets pushed onto Tena Bar.
Deposits a couple of bundles. Then bag gets pushed away with the rest of the bundles.

I like to remind myself that we're looking at a roughly 100? (don't know for sure) bundle experiment. Not a 3 bundle experiment.

So it's not about explaining 3 bundles, it's about explaining the 100, where the 3 is one small part.

There could have been a number of places with aligned bundles, and we just found one?

Another way to put it: Drag a bag of bundles with an open top around the Columbia River until the bag is empty. Then go back and look at your debris field. Map it and count the # of bundles at each unique spot.

Do you expect to see lots of individual bundles? or a random distribution of bundle counts?

One could argue that seeing 100 bundles in one location is probably unlikely if natural dispersion.

Seeing dispersion of groups of bundles, say 1-3 may be likely?

Not finding the rest of the bundles, doesn't necessarily mean that the 3 bundle find is unlikely?

Here's another question: If Tena Bar was a "likely" debris field for random garbage in the Columbia, shouldn't other garbage, like waste paper, aluminum, plastic, have been found during the FBI excavation.

Be interesting to know what else the FBI found while they were digging that trench (which I think was almost 3' deep?)

[snowmman 3]

theory for how the bundles got close to each other.
maybe not applicable, because the photos seem to show the money location being on a slope. But we're not sure.

Remember that ckret's latest interview of Brian, said the bundles were found in an area that "was recently covered by water". I was wondering how they would know that. I was thinking maybe it was flattish with some puddles or something that gave them such a clue.

But if it was just a simple slope, Brian wouldn't have obviously known it was recently covered by water, unless they knew about the water levels of the Columbia over time?

Imagine instead that it's a slight depression...like a shallow pool area in the sand...maybe spreading over a large area. You might pick a depression area as a good firepit area anyhow..

Imagine the area was flooded and 3 bundles get caught floating (or pushed by water) in that wide depression.

As the water evaporates/absorbs into the sand, and the water level drops, the bundles float/get pushed towards the center of the remaining water pool. (wind might help this)

When all the water is gone, the 3 bundles are next to each other, even though they initially weren't. Think of it like hair collecting at the bottom of a sink bowl near the drain, sort of.

Sounds unlikely..just throwing it out there.

[snowmman 3]

Anecdotal info from a resident who lived on a houseboat recently in the channel to the east of Caterpillar Island.

Since we're talking about money possibly rolling a short distance, and Caterpillar Island is a nearby body of land, I thought comments about historical water levels were useful. Also the comment about flooding to Lower River Road, since we're talking about possible other ways to get to Tena Bar.

from that resident:

"Back in 1996 all of Caterpillar Island was under water. Lower River road across from the island was under water and the docks floated off the pilings.
In more recent years the water has covered vast portions of the island, I have boated over sections of beach that are 15 feet above the normal river levels. It is a very low island."

[georger 247]

All good thoughts. I will revise my estimate to 5 years
at one site. The kinds of deterioration shown in these bills
indicates a uniform consistency of similar deterioration
which suggests one location for an extended period of time.

Your idea of the whole bag having been at the bar, depositing a few bundles which then get fixed in sediment, then the bag moving on with whatever was in it, could have occurred. That has an appeal logically but there is apparently no "evidence" to decide. The significant fact is: that money appears at Tena Bar at all. That seperates this from the kind of assertion:
"well money could have landed in Bejing via ...". The
money at the bar has a direct link to Cooper and 305.

Even if the whole bag has been at Tena I still opt for
the shallow water flow scenario because the Columbia
is a high volume swift current situation especially during flood. Currents away from the shoreline would take the bag at a fast rate down stream. The money
must get to the shoreline and stay there, somehow.
And the money is in remarkable condition which suggests protection of some kind during its history.
I do not think a long term constant movement scenario would leave the money in the condition it is
in.

*I see this whole case as obeying the law of averages
consistent with every 'fact' and supposition based in
fact, Ckret has proposed.

Cooper was an average guy in over his head. Partial
learning but dangerous because of his reach. 305 left
Seatac and Cooper wanted to bail quickly but could not and did not because the stair dilemma intervened. By
~8:10-8:20 Scott has leveled and slowed the plane to
~160 kts to accomodate Cooper (Scott and NWA want
Cooper out!). The sky glow of Vancouver appears
breaking the darkness with the skyglow of Portland coming up, Cooper has an idea where he is with the Columbia basin below, and he bails. Whatever parachuting scenario developed then completes the story with some money left in the Columbia basin,
which then is found.

You say 100 parcels of money. I was thinking more like 66. Whatever the number statistics and probability
now come into play. Why? Because any money was found at all. The probability of any single spot of money being found in the whole Columbia basin is exceedingly small. That any money was found suggests 'distribution'. The probability is simply higher
if 100 or 66 or even 33 spots of money are distributed
than if only 1 is sent lose into the whole basin.

So having found one spot of money we can safely assume a larger distribution by some means. Again,
the mere fact of any money being found almost requires more money having been present and distributed at some time.

If we had the bag we could almost assume something
drastic happened to seperate the money from Cooper,
from his point of view. He was giddy at receiving the money and would not have been happy losing it.

This tells us nothing of whether he lived or died.

I will leave it at that.

I have calls out to several experts. Hopfully one will
come back to me.

[snowmman 3]

Hi georger
excellent on the calls you have out for expertise.
I always liked the "jump when you see city lights" theory.

question:
You make a reference to Scott slowing the plane down for Cooper.

Sluggo and I have gone back and forth on that as myth vs fact. There are some quotes attributed to Bill R. that may be myth. Sluggo has pointed out increases in fuel consumption, noted in the transcripts, that could be attributed to increased flaps to slow the plane. Or not.

Where did you get the information that Scott levelled and slowed the plane for Cooper? Or are you just saying at some point the plane was apparently in a state that favored Cooper, as opposed to an actual documented exchange between Cooper and Scoot or Bill R. that led to that state?

Also: are you familar with the timeline Sluggo has assembled from all the info in the transcripts at

http://n467us.com/NORJAK%20Time%20Table.htm

Can you comment on that timeline and whether you agree/disagree about anything Sluggo has noted?

You seem to have some specific thoughts on the 7:45 to 8:20 period. Can you expand on them? It's not clear there's a lot of evidence from the transcripts that one can infer stuff from..are we missing something?

Any particular reason you're guessing 66 bundles?

Sorry for drilling you..but welcome to the thread!