DB Cooper

[Ckret 0]

When Cooper told Scott he could not get the stairs to lower, he (Scott) slowed the plane and leveled it.

The problem with the city lights is there was a 5000 foot ceiling.

Go back to the old thread and start on page 49, post 1225. From there a several page discussion on the money can be read.

Whatever happened to safecrack?

[airtwardo 7]

The problem with the city lights is there was a 5000 foot ceiling.

Quote

Solid? Broken?
~the whole way was 5000' overcast?

And even if it was, as long as the clouds aren't 500' thick you can still see the brightness of civilization from the topside.


I'm just sayin'






http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3025630#3025630

-Why not ask for a specific flight path? He never made that request nor did he ever ask the aircrew where along the flight path they were, he just jumped without much of a clue were they were at.

~~~Why bother, exit when you see city lights and head that way, a specific flight plan means you know aviation and navigation, narrows the search pool of possible suspects.
And how many bank robbers tell the cops their escape route before they leave the bank?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[snowmman 3]

Once you're comfortable with 5 years or so at Tena Bar, then you bump into the likelihood that somehow dredging displacement may have caused the final resting place at Tena Bar. '74 is a year quoted for dredging, although it's unclear if that was the only year from '71 thru '80 in that location.

Here's some anecdotal info about dredging on both sides of the river from a long term resident on the other side of the river, (across from Tena Bar)

I was asking him about info in a court case where it incidentally mentions that the Army Corps of Engineers dumped about 175,000 cubic yards of sand on about 20 acres of land in the Sauvie Island area in August 1974, rendering it useless for farming.

[edit] Reeder Beach is on the other (OR) side of the river.
his reply:

"xxx xxx was an xxx of mine, a very private person. I know nothing about any sale of her land. I do know that there was a lot of sand pumped on to her land, and she sold sand for several years, at a good price, to contractors. ... Her farm was called xxx Ranch, and is located about 1/2 mile south of Reeder Beach.

Spoil from the dredging done by the Corp. of Engineers in 1974 , on the Oregon side in our area, was dumped on the xxx Ranch, and on the Washington side, was pumped on to Fazio Farms, on Lower River Road, north of Vancouver, where the D.B. Cooper money was found.

The last dumping of dredging spoil on Reeder Beach was in the mid 1960s. All of the 1974 sand on this side, went to xxx Ranch and shortly after that, the environmentalists got into the picture and declared that the water, which ran off of the sand back into the river, was polluting the river, and the Corp of Engineers is no longer able to pump the spoil on to the riverbank. .... no longer able to restore the beach, even though the major flood of 1996 washed away over 150 feet of ... beach frontage."

I also got some info from the houseboat-living guy on the current dredging every year that gets the sand onto the shore, at the Fazio Bros. Sand Company. (the big pile you see in Google Earth)

Ckret had previously said the '74 dredging was with a bladed dredger. I'm wondering if it was a similar Auger suction dredge.

"Fazio dredges with an Auger suction dredge (do a wikipedia search) every winter (it's illegal to dredge after April 1st, salmon habitat and all). They pump the dredge spoils up onto the hill, so every year the sand increases, then decreases as the sand is trucked out."

wikipedia auger suction dredge:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dredging#Auger_suction

[edit] wiki says the first wide use of auger suction dredges was in the '80s. So still unclear what the exact bladed dredger in '74 was.

[Ckret 0]

The person who actually managed the operation in 74 was interviewed by agents after the find in 80. He is the one who gave comment about junk from the bottom being processed through the dredge. i'll go back and dredge up the interview. As i rememeber he gave the impression anything sent through, like bags of cash, would have been torn apart.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Jo,

I thought you knew Duane's history, sorry for revealing that to you over the forum. None of the arrests were for violent crimes, I can post what he was arrested for or PM you.

In regard to the print examination, I didn't do it so it is not "what I think" it is what the lab is reporting. None of the prints on the resume matched those from flight 305 or Duane, five matched your prints.
They did say that to make a full analysis they needed more prints from you and Duane.

They are called "Major Case Prints" and involve taking prints from the side of the fingers, lower joint and palm.

As I wrote in an earlier post, they also used a set of Duane's prints from a 1944 arrest to compare with those from flight 305 with negative results.

This if true and how I am understanding it - does support my theory or report that the prints on the system do not belong to Duane - if they did not update them with the arrests that occured after 1968 and the commutation. I do not see how Duane's prints would not be on that resume...and seems to support the idea that his file prints had been altered.

As for the file on Duane it would have been nice if the FBI had provided that and the print report yrs ago...not having that information has cost me yrs of grief and time... better spent elsewhere.

Thank you for letting me know - at this point in life it makes no different that it is now public other than those who would say "She had to have known". I do not need for people to think less of me than a few already do.

Please do send or email on my private email (not thru the forum) the details of those arrests and the dates and locations. This would have been very helpful in my finding his daughter who I think I have found and is deceased from the same hereditary disease that brought about his demise.

I do not know how we go about getting prints of Duane at this date. Perhaps the actual prints taken from an arrest such as in Jacksonville. He had a DUI around 1979 in Ft. Collins, Fl. I do not remember if he was printed.

He was cremated and I do not know if they keep the cremation prints on file after 10 yrs or if they are even required to make them.. I do not even know who to contact, but will make some phone calls tomorrow. I want to know if those prints match the 1944 prints. I don't know why?

For me to close this chapter of my search - DID the FBI compare the 1944 prints agains the master file?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

Hi ckret.
[example I'm thinking of: anchor of the dredge boat displacing money.]
[edit: added photo of excavator on barge being used in current Columbia dredging operations, just for interest]

I know I dragged everyone thru this before, and don't want to repeat. I'm inclined to agree with the testimony you provided of probable damage of the money thru the dredge, although it's worth double checking like you did on the rubber bands.

Clamshell dredges are used on the Columbia I believe, and would be most likely to be able to move money without damage. Maybe ask the question "Are you sure no clamshell dredges were used, or any shovel dredges?".

We spent most of our time discussing stuff thru the dredge. I was thinking more along the lines, now, of money being kicked up, but not thru the dredge.

Maybe ask that question too: "Is it possible for a dredging operation to kick stuff up, without going thru the dredge"

There's nothing to support that theory yet, but if we get to a point of agreeing on a long 5-6 yr. minimum time at Tena Bar, then we should at least rethink the dredge possibilities.

Here's another thought: I've been reading about some of the problems caused by sediment from dredging operations.

Changes in nitrite/nitrate levels caught my eye because of the mention of "salts" as possible purple staining cause. I was also thinking of potassium or sodium nitrate runoff from the Fazio farming operation as a source of "salts"

It'd be good to have an expert show up with some US currency staining knowledge.

Although the recent pics I have didn't show it, I believe some of the FBI bill pictures show severely black bills also.

I think we all just thought "sun exposure". But there's nothing that backs that idea up. Since some bills are clean and some aren't, we should have a theory why that would be true.

Quote

The person who actually managed the operation in 74 was interviewed by agents after the find in 80. He is the one who gave comment about junk from the bottom being processed through the dredge. i'll go back and dredge up the interview. As i rememeber he gave the impression anything sent through, like bags of cash, would have been torn apart.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Jo, the last time I mentioned this YOU stated that no-one knew where he was... period. Interesting how the story has changed. YOU stated, in a post on 10 April:

I was replying to whatever someone had said in a prior post and will not go back to see what that was. I will again state that my story does NOT change. How many hours and days and wks have we been at this. I was probably inflamed by a prior post and firing off.

What I do have the forum would call hear-say and what I did say about knowing where he was during that time is again "Hearsay".

How MANY times have you and others been critical of me on that subject? If you go back to the very beginning in this forum or another or in my letters to the FBI - the story about the trimming of the trees has been told since I first talked to his employer of the time in the very early yrs of my search.

I have notes and tapes I cannot use regarding other things during that time span. These things are TIME specific as I know of no other times except between Nov 1971 and Feb 1972 that the opportunity presents itself for the parties to be in Ca. during 1962 and 1971. I have always kept these thing CONFIDENTIAL, but you force me to defend myself.
Now you will come back and say - that is he said, she said.

I do not always remember every detail in a heated reply - I am not an attorney nor someone schooled in such matters. I assure you that I can produce emails and written material supporting the tree trimming from way back - there are now 5 suitcases full of stuff.

Quote

the fact that he continued to be arrested AFTER the hijacking makes no sense, if you consider that such a stunt - if pulled by someone who was largely convicted of far more minor things till then - would no doubt have been "the big one" to set up for good.

Continued to be ARRESTED??? You are making a lot do do about nothing.

The arrests after 1968 at the time of the Commutation: I am aware of the DUI and having a gun in 1976 in Jacksonville and the DUI in Ft.Collins, Co. in 1979

HOW can you make just a big deal over those.

It looks like to me he did tried to go straight - he was rehabilitating himself and he has a couple of set-backs.

STOP trying to pick apart eveything I say. This petty.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

STOP trying to pick apart eveything

Why? Is this because with a very small amount of investigation your stack of cards collapses?

I'm still asking for some sort of hard evidence. The Federal Government has, in their quest to find the real Cooper, has pretty much slammed the door shut on Weber. DNA, fingerprints and even the circumstantial evidence points away from Weber. Even a jury in TX would find a conviction with this evidence.

Where's your smoking gun? Show us something that is real and tangible, not more "but I said so."

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[snowmman 3]

[someone may have better data, but this is better than no data.]

For what it's worth, my NOAA 11/24/71 weather map showing the Portland station has the cloud cover circle (the circle at the other end of the wind barbs) about 60% black/filled in.

Cloud cover at Seattle indeed was 100%. So we have to be sure where we're getting data on clouds from.

I posted this before, but the jpg is attached again.
I also attached the "decoder ring" for understanding the symbols.

My read is that means 60% cloud cover at Portland. It could change over the day and night. But it does suggest that the cloud cover may have been broken.

you can zoom in on the weather map to see the Portland detail. I left enough of the map there so you can see it really is from November 24, 1971

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Orange,

Quote

The prints that are taken from those arrested are stored by the FBI at our lab. On 01/17/97, the prints associated with Weber were placed on film and archived. A set of prints taken by the US Marshal's Service from an arrest in San Francisco on 08/23/1944 were fed into the AFIS (Automated Fingerprint Identification System) computer system to serve as Weber's Master Set. The ones used for comparisons.

ALL of the below if for information only and a mute point as long a comparision had been made of the 1944 file on Duane versus the prints in the System at his death.

From what I have been told and read when they started the automated system they used the MOST current prints as they were far more printable and better than the older files.? In the 60's as this was happening things did HAPPEN regardless of what the FBI would lead us to believe.

CARR: EXPLAIN how it happened with RAY in 1966.

I am not attacking you, but correct information needs to be made available to the public and not just what you guys are schooled in. There are loops and curves in life and this one the FBI experienced in 1966 or so. If the prints of 1944 were indeed use that's great, but I doubt they used those prints for the system - it just was NOT the norm because of the condition of some of the old files.

To prove my point - go read the files on James Earl Ray and writings of JJ Mahoney and Newpaper article of that time about James Earl Ray"s escape from Jefferson.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

• Quote

[snowmman 3]

I know you're getting a lot of flak.
Try to just pick one thing and get data, and come back with it.

I'd suggest a front-on photo of Duane without glasses in the '70-'80 era. It would be useful in any case for a true sketch compare, since all eyewitnesses say Cooper had no glasses till the hijack commenced.

I personally believe that the photos of Duane with black-rimmed glasses fake everyone out on the sketch comparison, because the sketch has relatively full black eyebrows, and Duane's black-rimmed glasses tend to match.

I think the quality of the sketch comparison will go down substantially when Duane's real eyes and eyebrows (position, size etc) are revealed. (in '71 or that timeframe)

You can prove me wrong with a picture.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Quote

STOP trying to pick apart eveything

Why? Is this because with a very small amount of investigation your stack of cards collapses?

I'm still asking for some sort of hard evidence. The Federal Government has, in their quest to find the real Cooper, has pretty much slammed the door shut on Weber. DNA, fingerprints and even the circumstantial evidence points away from Weber. Even a jury in TX would find a conviction with this evidence.

NOTE:
Nothing has changed regarding Duane - NOTHING. They do not know if any of the prints belonged to Cooper. I have no verification that the 1944 prints and the 1966 prints match and why Duane's prints as per the file are not on that resume. This raises a lot of questions in MY mind as to the credibility of the prints.

How can you do a resume and have it for several yrs without your prints being on it. That make me think that maybe the prints they are comparing with are not Duane's print. I need for this matter to be fixed or resolved and I don't know how to do it.

Now to me it is not a matter of Cooper or not - it is a matter of prints on file and the comparison of all his prison prints to the masters.

Was he a ghost? Only a ghost can do a resume with NO PRINTS.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Snowmman everytime I get a little energy I come to the computer then get so upset that I haven't been able finish your request.

I did not find anything near the 1971 era - remember that the post 1972 photos were gathered from all over the country by an investigator as I had nothing of his past photos when all of this came up.

He does have his glasses on in most of the photos and I found 3 without the glasses (these are later in life and nowhere near 1971). I haven't completely gone thru the albums, but all of the photos are going to be 1980 - 1995.

This is strange - since he did not need glasses to drive - basically to read - why did he always wear glasses? I never noticed that he had his glasses on for photos. It just did not occur to me.

The photos without glasses are snapshot made in fun or taken unexpectantly as you will be able to see from the expression on his face and one where he appears to be mad - he was "mad" because I took that picture - - - -.

Some of these are faded and he has this wide open mouth and raised eyebrow thing going on in every (EVERY) shot without Glasses? I will keep looking then I have to find the negatives since the photos are fading. I will scan the ones I have but I am wary of posting them because of the expression, but then maybe that will help.

I have something going thru my mind after this photo search - WHY did he have his glasses on for photos and WHY is it that every one of the non-glasses photos show this stupid clown expression.
Was that on purpose? 17 yrs of photos and this is the case on every non-glasses photo. I am shaking my head as I read this.

I am sending you a pm.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Where are you getting some of this information - sounds lilke it came from a book someone would write - You are posting things in all of my search that have never been posted or claimed before. Please explain where and how you are finding these things and if they are FACT and can be found someplace else.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

Hi Jo.

The world of information gathering has changed a lot in the last 8 yrs or so. I would argue for the worse, since there is no privacy anymore.

Like here's a good one: search for references to CIPAV and Larry Carr! JUST KIDDING AGAIN!
(I'd swear the FBI has just one agent: Larry Carr who does all the work)

I try to provide the original data, or a link to the source. If you don't believe something, I can provide more info on anything I've posted.

Basically, in the last 5 years everything in the world has moved online. Amazingly even copies of 100 year old newspaper articles.

Google News works well, although you have to pay for news articles. They do OCR of the newspaper text, which sometimes has errors. So trying the search in different ways is important. Interestingly, small town newspapers are good sources cause they tend to just run all the wire articles (AP/UPI).

The noaa stuff was from the noaa.

Found that 5 piece mother of pearl set on ebay.

Found email addresses for the guys on the columbia river online (they had web pages) and just sent them email.

Found the court cases online.

Found email address for one SAGE guy online, and he lead me to a online group www.radomes.org where I found another SAGE guy.

The nice photos of the Ingram bills came from the auction site that I published the url of. That's new because, well, the auction is new.

Someone once told me the story of "stone soup".
I think that's what we're trying to do here. Before you know it, we'll have a pretty good soup..!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_soup

Oh and almost forgot Sluggo who is epic: I just accused him of being NSA/CIA and we were good buddies from then on!

[georger 247]

question:
You make a reference to Scott slowing the plane down for Cooper.

Sluggo and I have gone back and forth on that as myth vs fact. There are some quotes attributed to Bill R. that may be myth. Sluggo has pointed out increases in fuel consumption, noted in the transcripts, that could be attributed to increased flaps to slow the plane. Or not.

Where did you get the information that Scott levelled and slowed the plane for Cooper? Or are you just saying at some point the plane was apparently in a state that favored Cooper, as opposed to an actual documented exchange between Cooper and Scoot or Bill R. that led to that state?

Also: are you familar with the timeline Sluggo has assembled from all the info in the transcripts at

http://n467us.com/NORJAK%20Time%20Table.htm

Can you comment on that timeline and whether you agree/disagree about anything Sluggo has noted?

You seem to have some specific thoughts on the 7:45 to 8:20 period. Can you expand on them? It's not clear there's a lot of evidence from the transcripts that one can infer stuff from..are we missing something?

Any particular reason you're guessing 66 bundles?

Sorry for drilling you..but welcome to the thread!

[skyjack71 0]

Georger - I am noting that you are
stating many things as though they are fact. What are you using for a reference for these facts?

Cook made his announcement
regarding Gossett posting altered composites in the paper (without a disclaimer) to the general public who are completely unaware there have been such alterations - Since he was so unetchical about that he would also stoop to having someone come into the forum to alter FACTs.

When Cook was asked about the found Money he said that answer would be forthcoming. You came into the forum right after that and I started all of these post about the found money -- so I hope you understand why I am asking questions. I just want to be sure you have ALL of the information and to give an Unbias opinion.

Please, for my information state your reference source on some of the factual statements - such as about leveling off and seeing the lights of Portland and Vancouver.

You also state a lot of very technical information - what are your creditials? - I may have missed it and a lot of this stuff goes WAY over my head.

I would hope that those posting technical information are here to help and not being biased or influenced by anything other than facts.

As you know already I and others have explainations of how that money got into the Columbia. I have maintained that the money was stored in a bucket (probably plastic paint bucket) in the ground not too far from the Columbia. That part of it was found in 1979 and thrown into the Columbia around late Sept or Oct of that yr.

I frankly don't think that all of the money was put in the same place...but that is conjecture on my part since Duane left me twice for several hours - one of which he came back to the motel soiled in The Dalles area.

He also left me in the Car on the WA side of the river West of the airport and went down to the river and that we stopped before we left the area at the Red Lion ( on the WA side at the main bridge to Portland) where he threw into the Columbia a paper sack he said had trash in it.

In your evaluations please keep some of this in mind in order to give an unbais opinion (if you are a professional in this field).

Sorry if I offended you, but I have learned NEVER to trust anyone.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

Hi Jo.

What you just did is a good example of how not to get data. georger doesn't have to say anything about who he is, because it could be wrong anyhow. Why would you believe one thing someone says and not the other?

I have a novel idea, let's just trust each other, and throw out obviously bad data.

The way you find truth is to just assume everyone can be either "wrong" or a "liar". Truth gets created by correlating everything. We don't have to trust single source info, except in the case of maybe ckret..but we double check him to the best we can also.

If georger doesn't have good thoughts, it will be obvious.

This is the brave new world. Who you are matters less than the quality of what you say and the information you bring to the table. As long as georger says reasonable things and brings information or expertise to the table, he could be a dog for all anyone should care.

You being Jo Weber means nothing. I evaluate you based on the information you bring. You guys do the same to me and everyone else. That's good.

[georger 247]

Quote

Once you're comfortable with 5 years or so at Tena Bar, then you bump into the likelihood that somehow dredging displacement may have caused the final resting place at Tena Bar. '74 is a year quoted for dredging, although it's unclear if that was the only year from '71 thru '80 in that location.
_________________

Five years or any amount of time is contingent on the
amount of protection the money has. Refer back and
look at the bills. Their condition speaks for itself. The
currency is fragile material especially after decay sets in. Those bills sucked into a dredge wouldnt last 10
seconds. The currency found at Tina Bar looks to me
as if it had a rather benign history. Maybe there was other money at some earlier date which would have shown signs of violence and it departed leaving the
lucky remnant we find - without something conrete
to suggest or prove this we cannot know.

George

• Quote

[georger 247]

Changes in nitrite/nitrate levels caught my eye because of the mention of "salts" as possible purple staining cause. I was also thinking of potassium or sodium nitrate runoff from the Fazio farming operation as a source of "salts"
_______________

Well that is testable. If particular nitrates say of Na
or K are present in the money that would show very
easily in any spectroscopic test - with the H-K lines at
3934/3968 and the D1-3 lines at 5876/96. Whatever is in the environment leaves its traces. Now if we would
find some trait not in the immediate environment
then that would be interesting and require explanation.
That is how these tests work and their value.

I know some are reading this thinking: "Oh No! Now
we are going into CSI and tinfoil hats!". Not really.
As a practical matter you don't do these tests unless
it is warranted.

...

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

Now to me it is not a matter of Cooper or not - it is a matter of prints on file and the comparison of all his prison prints to the masters.

Was he a ghost? Only a ghost can do a resume with NO PRINTS.

Not really. It all depends on a lot of factors. Its not as resolute as shows like CSI make it seem on TV. You hit the paper with Ninhydrin and the prints are either there or they're not. Just because something has been touched doesn't mean that a useable print was left.

However, the useable prints from Cooper that have been found and all the 10-print cards generated with Weber do not match. You may believe this folds back into some sort of grand conspiracy against you. Reasonable people see that as hard evidence that Weber was not Cooper. No matter what you may have think happened.

Once again I'm asking for hard evidence from you since you once again only posted "because I said so" which is worthless.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[snowmman 3]

Quote

ckret wrote:
When Cooper told Scott he could not get the stairs to lower, he (Scott) slowed the plane and leveled it.

I may have missed it, but I didn't think we had this confirmation of an interaction between Cooper and Scott on getting the airspeed right to get the stairs open. We knew Cooper apparently didn't know the operation, based on having to get info from Tina. But now we can say he probably didn't have firsthand knowledge of airspeed requirements for stair deployment. If he did, he might have specified an airspeed, rather than just flap position and wheels down, since that request seemed to be incomplete in terms of achieving the initial goal of stairs open in flight.

It does raise the question of how the hell McNally got his stairs open. But we have very little data on the McNally hijack, so we'll have to just say "don't know" there.

So this is good. I'm assuming Ckret's comment is from interviews with Scott that we don't have access to.

It reminds me a lot of the McCoy interaction with the pilots, although McCoy was asking for a lot more detailed info for his jump (cause of his experience)

Although I'm just repeating something Ckret has been trying to beat into our heads, this latest factoid makes me devalue the "flaps at 15 degree and wheels down" apparent high-knowledge-of-it-causing-right-airspeed.

See if Cooper says one thing that appears to get him what he needs, but then it turns out to be insufficient knowledge and he has to grumble with the captain ...slow the f*er down...then we have to say Cooper was operating with opinions not perfect facts, just like we've said when flt ops was wrong about landing with the stairs.

If we're going to harp on bad knowledge for non-Cooper players, we need to harp on bad knowledge for Cooper also.

Some of this may be obvious to Ckret, but remember he's also reading some files we don't have access to.

The "15 degree flap and wheels down" request, may turn out to be less informed knowledge than it appears...it might be just shotgun knowledge.


p.s. I just learned something useful. When we break into FBI hq to steal the Cooper Files, whoever's assigned to tying up Ckret..don't use duct tape, they'll nail us right away with the National Forensic Tape File Database ..I didn't realize there was one!

THE DEVELOPMENT OF A FORENSIC DATABASE OF TECHNICAL AND MANUFACTURING DUCT TAPE INFORMATION, E.G. Bartick and R.A. Merrill, AAFS Annual Meeting, Feb. 2000

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Quote

The issue of accuracy vs. flexibility began with Ckret questioning Sluggo about how accurate any time stamp in the transcript could be, whether it was typed TTY or RTTY or radio exchanges, and who and when time values were being assigned to become a part the transcript. At length, you all came to the conclusion and agreed these time stamps are not set in stone but flexible, and probably early. 8:10 can easily become 8:13, 8:13~8:20,and so on. Changing the times changes the position of the plane along its flight path. Merwin Lake becomes northern Vancouver becomes northern suburbs of Portland south of the Columbia. (with the south wind aloft 10-20 kts you have all found in the WX records - applause to you guys!)

georger,

I am well aware that if I place information on my website, this forum, or any other forum, readers are free to use it as they see fit. They may use it to better understand the “facts of the case,” or use it to further their own agenda to prove a suspect was or was not Cooper. However, the above statement is a total distortion, in fact, it is pure fiction.

Point by point:

(Fact) Ckret never questioned me about the accuracy of time stamps on the transcript.

(Fact) There never was an RTTY, they didn’t exist on NWA flights at that time.

(Fact) The time stamp is a product of the TTY and as such in inalterable.

(Fact) Based on the above statements the “who” is a machine.

(Fact) The time stamps are set in stone with the exception “listen to type time” delays.

(Fact) The FBI assigned to “listen to type time” delays to be 1 min or less.

(Fact) 8:10 cannot become 8:13 – 8:20. 8: 10 can become 8:09 and only 8:09.

(Fact) The crucial fact here is the oscillations were time-stamped but the pressure bump was not. The pressure bump time was estimated (by the flight crew) as 10 to 15 minutes after the 8:05 call to the back. That is the only time issue with any variability.

(Fact) Times listed on the TTY log do not change the position data based on Air Force Radar. The TTY log is useful for identifying the times of communications. With few exceptions (where positions were reported by the crew) it does not identify positions of the aircraft.

(Fact) The Radar data is accurate to 1 NM (plus or minus) along the azimuth of the scan. The angular resolution is unknown (to me).

I would appreciate the courtesy of checking with me, before you attribute your conjecture to my data.

What say you? Favorite-Nephew Ckret?

Sluggo_Monster

NOTE: I was going to put an “Angry emoticon here, but my emotion is more a mixture of amusement and disgust.

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[snowmman 3]

Vancouver Lake is interesting as a DZ if predicted jump near Vancouver.

Why: because it has huge surface area, almost rivaling the surface area of the Columbia, if you just include the 305 flight path crossing the Columbia area...
So it increases the probability of it being a money catcher/delivery system. (with water being the carrier)

It's also big enough to offset the lack of wind blowing to the west...i.e. money might land there, and get transported west by water.

There's also less distance for money to travel, compared to the long way on the Columbia, from the 305 crossing Columbia area.

See attached pic from Google Earth, showing Vancouver Lake and the money location.

The only problem is there is one? water channel out of Vancouver Lake now, and it's to the north, north of the money site. (you can see white water there even)

But what about 1971?

That cleared farm land between Vancouver Lake and the money site is called Shilapoo Lake.

The houseboat guy said:
"don't know much about Shillapoo lake, other than the fact that it was originally called Shallow Pool Lake, and the "indianized" the name to make it sound more like a Native American name. "

The 2nd attach is a topo map showing the region known as Shilapoo lake. You can see a thin curving blue line that's a stream. That alines with the curving green trees in the middle of the cleared land in the GE pic.

Getting money to cross Lower River Rd seems difficult.
But the 1996 information tells us that extreme flooding causes water levels to rise all the way to Lower River Road, at the Caterpillar Island area.

We also don't know what the Shilapoo Lake area looked like in 1971. It may not have been that cleared farmland.

We probably need topo maps from 1971 of the Shilapoo Lake/Vancouver Lake area, to muse further.

I like any area that might be deep mud that would allow Cooper to auger in and not be found.

[snowmman 3]

For the TTY machine in question, if I pause typing, how long of a pause is needed before a restart of typing causes another timestamp?

Or: does the operator have to "do something" to insert a time stamp? Hit a special key/sequence or ???

There's lots of questions about this TTY log creation, that maybe you have the answers for and should summarize, or you're just guessing the answers for?

It's not clear to me.