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snowmman 3
Hi Jo.
What you just did is a good example of how not to get data. georger doesn't have to say anything about who he is, because it could be wrong anyhow. Why would you believe one thing someone says and not the other?
I have a novel idea, let's just trust each other, and throw out obviously bad data.
The way you find truth is to just assume everyone can be either "wrong" or a "liar". Truth gets created by correlating everything. We don't have to trust single source info, except in the case of maybe ckret..but we double check him to the best we can also.
If georger doesn't have good thoughts, it will be obvious.
This is the brave new world. Who you are matters less than the quality of what you say and the information you bring to the table. As long as georger says reasonable things and brings information or expertise to the table, he could be a dog for all anyone should care.
You being Jo Weber means nothing. I evaluate you based on the information you bring. You guys do the same to me and everyone else. That's good.
What you just did is a good example of how not to get data. georger doesn't have to say anything about who he is, because it could be wrong anyhow. Why would you believe one thing someone says and not the other?
I have a novel idea, let's just trust each other, and throw out obviously bad data.
The way you find truth is to just assume everyone can be either "wrong" or a "liar". Truth gets created by correlating everything. We don't have to trust single source info, except in the case of maybe ckret..but we double check him to the best we can also.
If georger doesn't have good thoughts, it will be obvious.
This is the brave new world. Who you are matters less than the quality of what you say and the information you bring to the table. As long as georger says reasonable things and brings information or expertise to the table, he could be a dog for all anyone should care.
You being Jo Weber means nothing. I evaluate you based on the information you bring. You guys do the same to me and everyone else. That's good.
georger 256
Once you're comfortable with 5 years or so at Tena Bar, then you bump into the likelihood that somehow dredging displacement may have caused the final resting place at Tena Bar. '74 is a year quoted for dredging, although it's unclear if that was the only year from '71 thru '80 in that location.
_________________
Five years or any amount of time is contingent on the
amount of protection the money has. Refer back and
look at the bills. Their condition speaks for itself. The
currency is fragile material especially after decay sets in. Those bills sucked into a dredge wouldnt last 10
seconds. The currency found at Tina Bar looks to me
as if it had a rather benign history. Maybe there was other money at some earlier date which would have shown signs of violence and it departed leaving the
lucky remnant we find - without something conrete
to suggest or prove this we cannot know.
George
georger 256
Changes in nitrite/nitrate levels caught my eye because of the mention of "salts" as possible purple staining cause. I was also thinking of potassium or sodium nitrate runoff from the Fazio farming operation as a source of "salts"
_______________
Well that is testable. If particular nitrates say of Na
or K are present in the money that would show very
easily in any spectroscopic test - with the H-K lines at
3934/3968 and the D1-3 lines at 5876/96. Whatever is in the environment leaves its traces. Now if we would
find some trait not in the immediate environment
then that would be interesting and require explanation.
That is how these tests work and their value.
I know some are reading this thinking: "Oh No! Now
we are going into CSI and tinfoil hats!". Not really.
As a practical matter you don't do these tests unless
it is warranted.
...
_______________
Well that is testable. If particular nitrates say of Na
or K are present in the money that would show very
easily in any spectroscopic test - with the H-K lines at
3934/3968 and the D1-3 lines at 5876/96. Whatever is in the environment leaves its traces. Now if we would
find some trait not in the immediate environment
then that would be interesting and require explanation.
That is how these tests work and their value.
I know some are reading this thinking: "Oh No! Now
we are going into CSI and tinfoil hats!". Not really.
As a practical matter you don't do these tests unless
it is warranted.
...
Now to me it is not a matter of Cooper or not - it is a matter of prints on file and the comparison of all his prison prints to the masters.
Was he a ghost? Only a ghost can do a resume with NO PRINTS.
Not really. It all depends on a lot of factors. Its not as resolute as shows like CSI make it seem on TV. You hit the paper with Ninhydrin and the prints are either there or they're not. Just because something has been touched doesn't mean that a useable print was left.
However, the useable prints from Cooper that have been found and all the 10-print cards generated with Weber do not match. You may believe this folds back into some sort of grand conspiracy against you. Reasonable people see that as hard evidence that Weber was not Cooper. No matter what you may have think happened.
Once again I'm asking for hard evidence from you since you once again only posted "because I said so" which is worthless.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."
snowmman 3
ckret wrote:
When Cooper told Scott he could not get the stairs to lower, he (Scott) slowed the plane and leveled it.
I may have missed it, but I didn't think we had this confirmation of an interaction between Cooper and Scott on getting the airspeed right to get the stairs open. We knew Cooper apparently didn't know the operation, based on having to get info from Tina. But now we can say he probably didn't have firsthand knowledge of airspeed requirements for stair deployment. If he did, he might have specified an airspeed, rather than just flap position and wheels down, since that request seemed to be incomplete in terms of achieving the initial goal of stairs open in flight.
It does raise the question of how the hell McNally got his stairs open. But we have very little data on the McNally hijack, so we'll have to just say "don't know" there.
So this is good. I'm assuming Ckret's comment is from interviews with Scott that we don't have access to.
It reminds me a lot of the McCoy interaction with the pilots, although McCoy was asking for a lot more detailed info for his jump (cause of his experience)
Although I'm just repeating something Ckret has been trying to beat into our heads, this latest factoid makes me devalue the "flaps at 15 degree and wheels down" apparent high-knowledge-of-it-causing-right-airspeed.
See if Cooper says one thing that appears to get him what he needs, but then it turns out to be insufficient knowledge and he has to grumble with the captain ...slow the f*er down...then we have to say Cooper was operating with opinions not perfect facts, just like we've said when flt ops was wrong about landing with the stairs.
If we're going to harp on bad knowledge for non-Cooper players, we need to harp on bad knowledge for Cooper also.
Some of this may be obvious to Ckret, but remember he's also reading some files we don't have access to.
The "15 degree flap and wheels down" request, may turn out to be less informed knowledge than it appears...it might be just shotgun knowledge.
p.s. I just learned something useful. When we break into FBI hq to steal the Cooper Files, whoever's assigned to tying up Ckret..don't use duct tape, they'll nail us right away with the National Forensic Tape File Database ..I didn't realize there was one!
THE DEVELOPMENT OF A FORENSIC DATABASE OF TECHNICAL AND MANUFACTURING DUCT TAPE INFORMATION, E.G. Bartick and R.A. Merrill, AAFS Annual Meeting, Feb. 2000
The issue of accuracy vs. flexibility began with Ckret questioning Sluggo about how accurate any time stamp in the transcript could be, whether it was typed TTY or RTTY or radio exchanges, and who and when time values were being assigned to become a part the transcript. At length, you all came to the conclusion and agreed these time stamps are not set in stone but flexible, and probably early. 8:10 can easily become 8:13, 8:13~8:20,and so on. Changing the times changes the position of the plane along its flight path. Merwin Lake becomes northern Vancouver becomes northern suburbs of Portland south of the Columbia. (with the south wind aloft 10-20 kts you have all found in the WX records - applause to you guys!)
georger,
I am well aware that if I place information on my website, this forum, or any other forum, readers are free to use it as they see fit. They may use it to better understand the “facts of the case,” or use it to further their own agenda to prove a suspect was or was not Cooper. However, the above statement is a total distortion, in fact, it is pure fiction.
Point by point:
(Fact) Ckret never questioned me about the accuracy of time stamps on the transcript.
(Fact) There never was an RTTY, they didn’t exist on NWA flights at that time.
(Fact) The time stamp is a product of the TTY and as such in inalterable.
(Fact) Based on the above statements the “who” is a machine.
(Fact) The time stamps are set in stone with the exception “listen to type time” delays.
(Fact) The FBI assigned to “listen to type time” delays to be 1 min or less.
(Fact) 8:10 cannot become 8:13 – 8:20. 8: 10 can become 8:09 and only 8:09.
(Fact) The crucial fact here is the oscillations were time-stamped but the pressure bump was not. The pressure bump time was estimated (by the flight crew) as 10 to 15 minutes after the 8:05 call to the back. That is the only time issue with any variability.
(Fact) Times listed on the TTY log do not change the position data based on Air Force Radar. The TTY log is useful for identifying the times of communications. With few exceptions (where positions were reported by the crew) it does not identify positions of the aircraft.
(Fact) The Radar data is accurate to 1 NM (plus or minus) along the azimuth of the scan. The angular resolution is unknown (to me).
I would appreciate the courtesy of checking with me, before you attribute your conjecture to my data.
What say you? Favorite-Nephew Ckret?
Sluggo_Monster
NOTE: I was going to put an “Angry emoticon here, but my emotion is more a mixture of amusement and disgust.
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snowmman 3
Vancouver Lake is interesting as a DZ if predicted jump near Vancouver.
Why: because it has huge surface area, almost rivaling the surface area of the Columbia, if you just include the 305 flight path crossing the Columbia area...
So it increases the probability of it being a money catcher/delivery system. (with water being the carrier)
It's also big enough to offset the lack of wind blowing to the west...i.e. money might land there, and get transported west by water.
There's also less distance for money to travel, compared to the long way on the Columbia, from the 305 crossing Columbia area.
See attached pic from Google Earth, showing Vancouver Lake and the money location.
The only problem is there is one? water channel out of Vancouver Lake now, and it's to the north, north of the money site. (you can see white water there even)
But what about 1971?
That cleared farm land between Vancouver Lake and the money site is called Shilapoo Lake.
The houseboat guy said:
"don't know much about Shillapoo lake, other than the fact that it was originally called Shallow Pool Lake, and the "indianized" the name to make it sound more like a Native American name. "
The 2nd attach is a topo map showing the region known as Shilapoo lake. You can see a thin curving blue line that's a stream. That alines with the curving green trees in the middle of the cleared land in the GE pic.
Getting money to cross Lower River Rd seems difficult.
But the 1996 information tells us that extreme flooding causes water levels to rise all the way to Lower River Road, at the Caterpillar Island area.
We also don't know what the Shilapoo Lake area looked like in 1971. It may not have been that cleared farmland.
We probably need topo maps from 1971 of the Shilapoo Lake/Vancouver Lake area, to muse further.
I like any area that might be deep mud that would allow Cooper to auger in and not be found.
Why: because it has huge surface area, almost rivaling the surface area of the Columbia, if you just include the 305 flight path crossing the Columbia area...
So it increases the probability of it being a money catcher/delivery system. (with water being the carrier)
It's also big enough to offset the lack of wind blowing to the west...i.e. money might land there, and get transported west by water.
There's also less distance for money to travel, compared to the long way on the Columbia, from the 305 crossing Columbia area.
See attached pic from Google Earth, showing Vancouver Lake and the money location.
The only problem is there is one? water channel out of Vancouver Lake now, and it's to the north, north of the money site. (you can see white water there even)
But what about 1971?
That cleared farm land between Vancouver Lake and the money site is called Shilapoo Lake.
The houseboat guy said:
"don't know much about Shillapoo lake, other than the fact that it was originally called Shallow Pool Lake, and the "indianized" the name to make it sound more like a Native American name. "
The 2nd attach is a topo map showing the region known as Shilapoo lake. You can see a thin curving blue line that's a stream. That alines with the curving green trees in the middle of the cleared land in the GE pic.
Getting money to cross Lower River Rd seems difficult.
But the 1996 information tells us that extreme flooding causes water levels to rise all the way to Lower River Road, at the Caterpillar Island area.
We also don't know what the Shilapoo Lake area looked like in 1971. It may not have been that cleared farmland.
We probably need topo maps from 1971 of the Shilapoo Lake/Vancouver Lake area, to muse further.
I like any area that might be deep mud that would allow Cooper to auger in and not be found.
snowmman 3
For the TTY machine in question, if I pause typing, how long of a pause is needed before a restart of typing causes another timestamp?
Or: does the operator have to "do something" to insert a time stamp? Hit a special key/sequence or ???
There's lots of questions about this TTY log creation, that maybe you have the answers for and should summarize, or you're just guessing the answers for?
It's not clear to me.
Or: does the operator have to "do something" to insert a time stamp? Hit a special key/sequence or ???
There's lots of questions about this TTY log creation, that maybe you have the answers for and should summarize, or you're just guessing the answers for?
It's not clear to me.
stating many things as though they are fact. What are you using for a reference for these facts?
Cook made his announcement
regarding Gossett posting altered composites in the paper (without a disclaimer) to the general public who are completely unaware there have been such alterations - Since he was so unetchical about that he would also stoop to having someone come into the forum to alter FACTs.
When Cook was asked about the found Money he said that answer would be forthcoming. You came into the forum right after that and I started all of these post about the found money -- so I hope you understand why I am asking questions. I just want to be sure you have ALL of the information and to give an Unbias opinion.
Please, for my information state your reference source on some of the factual statements - such as about leveling off and seeing the lights of Portland and Vancouver.
You also state a lot of very technical information - what are your creditials? - I may have missed it and a lot of this stuff goes WAY over my head.
I would hope that those posting technical information are here to help and not being biased or influenced by anything other than facts.
As you know already I and others have explainations of how that money got into the Columbia. I have maintained that the money was stored in a bucket (probably plastic paint bucket) in the ground not too far from the Columbia. That part of it was found in 1979 and thrown into the Columbia around late Sept or Oct of that yr.
I frankly don't think that all of the money was put in the same place...but that is conjecture on my part since Duane left me twice for several hours - one of which he came back to the motel soiled in The Dalles area.
He also left me in the Car on the WA side of the river West of the airport and went down to the river and that we stopped before we left the area at the Red Lion ( on the WA side at the main bridge to Portland) where he threw into the Columbia a paper sack he said had trash in it.
In your evaluations please keep some of this in mind in order to give an unbais opinion (if you are a professional in this field).
Sorry if I offended you, but I have learned NEVER to trust anyone.
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