DB Cooper

[Robert99 50]

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This info was given to them while on the ground in Seattle

Jerry, No it wasn't.

Take a look at the radio transcripts on the flight from Portland to Seattle, the radio transcripts on the ground (which were apparently conducted on both the Seattle Tower's ground control frequency and the NWA company frequency), the radio transcripts from the Seattle Center for the portion of the flight from Seattle to Fort Jones, CA VORTAC, and the Oakland Center transcripts for the remainder of the flight to Reno.

It is very easy to conclude that the Seattle Center's transcripts for the flight from a point about 17 DME south of SEA VORTAC on V23 to the Fort Jones VORTAC have been heavily "sanitized". If those transcripts supported the east of Portland flight path theory, why would anyone sanitize them?

The obvious conclusion is that the transcripts never supported an east of Portland flight path.

Robert Nicholson

[JerryThomas 0]

Conclusions you have to be very carefull with especially in this case. My Info come's direct from the angent folowing the aircraft in a helicopter. Also from the Pilot exact word's to the same agent. So call them a lier. Not me Jerry

[georger 244]

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This info was given to them while on the ground in Seattle

Point being though, they didn't need permission. By declaring the hijacking, they were declaring an emergency. They could do anything they deemed necessary and didn't need permission from anyone; not their company nor ATC.

You are totally correct if the record is true - no
reason to doubt it is not true. Key words: "deemed
necessary". Well ... there were a few things that
happened that were "deemed necessary" and
none of them in an east direction, and all of
them in a westerly or south-westerly direction.

You cant have a plane in two places at once.

[BobKnoss 0]

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Conclusions you have to be very carefull with especially in this case. My Info come's direct from the angent folowing the aircraft in a helicopter. Also from the Pilot exact word's to the same agent. So call them a lier. Not me Jerry

This may be true, but you have to weigh the source. The guys in the helicopter were Himmelsbach and McCoy! The flight passed over the outer limits of the Portland air space on the WEST of Portland. Ask Janet. Mac said to me. Jim said to me. Bill said to Ralph. Jo leaked something without intending to. Duane talked. Sorry, you can't fake it out of this one. Best just move on to another subject. This one could sink you.

[JerryThomas 0]

Knoss. What have you been drinking or smoking.Or do you just need attention again. Does your parents no that you are using the computer again.Jerry

[BobKnoss 0]

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Knoss. What have you been drinking or smoking.Or do you just need attention again. Does your parents no that you are using the computer again.Jerry

My parents are both dead. My father took his own life after I told him the truth about my involvement in this Project. If you want to come over when you get home, you are welcome. You can explain why we play these stupid games and screw up so many lives. Nobody has ever told me WHY, only, "Keep your F'n mouth shut!!" WHY?? That is a simple enough question, right? WHY?

[quade 4]

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Knoss. What have you been drinking or smoking.Or do you just need attention again. Does your parents no that you are using the computer again.Jerry

Jerry, there's no need to speculate about Knoss. His words say pretty much tell us all we need to know. Now, if he actually had physical evidence to back up anything he says it might be different, but as they stand, I find them no more credible than those a typical UFO abductee.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[georger 244]

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Conclusions you have to be very carefull with especially in this case. My Info come's direct from the angent folowing the aircraft in a helicopter. Also from the Pilot exact word's to the same agent. So call them a lier. Not me Jerry

Jerry, Ralph CANNOT BE IN TWO PLACES AT ONCE!
It wasnt just Ralph and Cooper duking it out
somewhere in the Ok Corral. The surprising thing
to me is yes, Ralph should have known where he
was, but apparently he didn't? It wasn't just Ralph
and Cooper alone in the air over part of the State
of Washington.

We dont need Ralph! We dont need his pilot.
Ralph wasnt flying that heli. And if Ralph doesnt
know where he was exactly then others do.

Ralph was just one player and not even an
important player. At most Ralph was an observer
from time to time. And from what engineers say
Ralph was NEVER flying at 10,000 feet? Was he?

There are a host of facts that have to be accounted
for here, not just Ralph. ATC didnt call Ralph up
and say: "Hey Ralph .... where do you want us to
send 305?" and 305 went there at Ralph's
convenience? Ralph was along for the ride!
Ralph was not in control, but merely along for a
ride and when he says (if he says) he was in behind
305 chasing the plane, the only sense in which
that can be true is like a comet is sometimes
in behind the Moon chasing the Earth for a brief
period. In reality the comet is clear out beyond
Pluto!

Ralph is one agent. Ralph does one thing. Ralph
is not controlling anything or giving orders "go
here, go there". That's not how it happened.
Ralph was nothing but a spectator that night
out looking for 305 to come across in a specific
sector - all conveyed to Ralph's pilot, not Ralph.

You say Ralph talked to Scott or Rataczak during
the flight? When? How? Why!? What was the
substance of their conversation(s) _ redacted
from the Transcript?

Ralph was a pure spectator in this whole thing
controlling nothing and not even able to keep up.
So Ralph's Reader's Digest version just isnt
important. His superficial version actually describes
his level of involvement, which was anecdotal at most.

Ralph admits he doesnt even know how
the Seattle FBI flight map got made, or by who.
Everything was being controlled out of ATC at
Seattle then handed off to Eugene - well ,,,
almost. This is my Readers Digest version.

If flight 305 had ever strayed east of V23 that
would have been known early by a host of people
actually involved in directing that flight - none of
which was Ralph Himmelsbach.

"If that flight had ever strayed east off V23 alarm
bells would have gone off everywhere." That is a
direct quote.

[BobKnoss 0]

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Jerry, there's no need to speculate about Knoss.

All there is, is, "He said, she said," on everyone's part. Planted evidence, finger pointing, fabrication on the grandest scale since Gulliver's Travels. The truth is lying under rocks where the 'crew' hasn't been. The 15 mile error in flight path was addressed and hushed up, so it is a source of buried truth that can be cleaned off and displayed. Little green and blue polka-dot men may have told me this. But, so did a lot of VERY credible people. It can be substanciated! The "error" in reporting was not to the EAST it was to the WEST, so now they are claiming a 30 mile error from the true path. VERY typical........

[JerryThomas 0]

Paul. Understood. Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

Geoger Time out I didn't say Ralph was talking to the pilot at the time of the flight.And yes he was in the Heli at around 3000ft following.What I said was that when they talked that was the info that was given.Years later Smith said he always believed he was further east than the flight path indicated. Jerry

[skyjack71 0]

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Did Rat have a 'hard fix' at any time he was
flying that plane - did anyone in the cockpit?
Yes Robert, I am phrasing this precisely as I
want to phrase it. This is no gimmick on my part.

I am simply following Farflung's most recent post
concerning distances. I am focuing in on 'relative
distances and how people perceive them,' ...
thus my use of the abstract term
"hard fix". We will worry about what "hard fix"
means later. Yes I know. Some would prefer
that term not be used, or that I should define
it now going in ...

Georger: I am using your post to my advantage if I even have one. Perception of distance and how people perceive them.

When I was in WA and OR in 1979, someone else (Duane was doing the driving). My perception of the areas he showed me caused me to think they were much closer together than I perceived at that time.

After making my trip to WA/OR in Oct of 2010 - I realized my perception of time and space was indeed off. I found the points of interest Duane had shown me - but, they were farther apart than I had perceive.

Being behind a wheel of a car on my own and being very unfamiliar with the area other than my memories from 1979, a realization HIT me hard and strong. These points of interest were farther apart than my memory allow me to perceive.

After locating these places of interest, I realize not only where they farther apart, but the concept of time getting from place to place was NOT off. This is why I left WA/OR knowing that the things Duane showed me had a sequence and were very important.

I was able to overlay the places with sitings of the plane and other stories told down thru the yrs. Also, I spoke with several witnesses and this only enforced my belief that Duane was Cooper rather than erasing my conception of the trip and his confession and the other things he told me.

I WANT to go back and I want to finish what I have started. Since it is highly probable that I will not be able to do so (physically and financially) - I believe I have found another way to do this without disrupting the lives of others.

It is my understanding that NOT only is the Co-pilot in Mexico so is Skipp Porteous and other members of this elite group also seem to be absent.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[BobKnoss 0]

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Geoger Time out I didn't say Ralph was talking to the pilot at the time of the flight.And yes he was in the Heli at around 3000ft following.What I said was that when they talked that was the info that was given.Years later Smith said he always believed he was further east than the flight path indicated. Jerry

The flight was on manual control with two VOC's squalking on two radio signals, from a visual, probably the lighted pump station, west of I-5? The location differential was reported to Ralph in his office sometime later and NOT by Smith or Scott.

[BobKnoss 0]

"t is my understanding that NOT only is the Co-pilot in Mexico so is Skipp Porteous and other members of this elite group also seem to be absent."


Sounds like I'm in deep shit here. Been here before and I know what these meetings are all about. Let it be known that I take this information with extreme seriousness and trepidation. Mac said they voted to "whack" Duane if he didn't pass quickly. I have been far more open than Duane. Make record of my claims, I have distributed copies of my records to people I trust. I have spoken the truth. I am in perfect health and do not drink. Don't taze me bro!

[skyjack71 0]

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Amazon The interior of the area of where cooper landed is very hard to travel Ther are a few logging roads.and yes it has grown some. However if anyone on the forum doubts this they can contact Richard Seven or Sussane Gilmore from the Seattle time's Or Geof Gray, Brian Ingram.just to mention a few.They will all tell you this area is almost Impossible to negotiate. I've taken many film crews into these locations. One of the documentaries. Opens with a picture overlooking part of the washougal watershed from atop Silver Star Mountain. In which you can see powerlines. Where do you think Jo found her first power lines. Jerry

This is NOT an insult Jerry, just relaying what I have been told by others who have read the book - I am in the process of reading it...and then I will let you know what I personally think of it.

By the way, I just finished Petersen's The Idiots Frightful Laughter. The book was a hard read because I had to read it on line...but, in the book certain thing are told with different concepts...or different views. His mind seems to jump around - and often seems to the the delusions created by MJ and other drugs so widely used during that time in Viet Nam.

I know some horrible things happened over there - but, I my mind does NOT want to accept some of the dreadful events scripted in that book.

I did not feel anything Petersen wrote would cement a hard line connection to Cooper other than he lived in WA in the 60's, was a smoke jumper, was a parchute trainer, worked for the forestry and he makes a joke about 20's wearing sunglasses then plunges into the widerness to seek his sanity and retribution.

Unless Silver Star Mountain is just off of the old 500 and just N Lake LaCames - that is NOT my "mountain".


P.S.
Just went back and looked at the last few posts - only the supposedly delusional, mentally ill and story tellers are posting - (that includes me). When we talk amongst ourselves it is time to go...well, what else is there to say? Perhaps we can drag a few of the sane down into the depths of the Cooper muck we try to crawl out of.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[nigel99 474]

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Knoss. What have you been drinking or smoking.Or do you just need attention again. Does your parents no that you are using the computer again.Jerry

Jerry, there's no need to speculate about Knoss. His words say pretty much tell us all we need to know. Now, if he actually had physical evidence to back up anything he says it might be different, but as they stand, I find them no more credible than those a typical UFO abductee.

I have just figured out the grand conspiracy behind this thread. Quade is actually performing an experiment in social engineering and this is the lab. Call us monkeys in a cage or similar. I am sure that Quade is trying to master herding cats. Alternatively he's looking to make a movie about running a lunatic asylum and this is the background material (12 or so lunatics stuck in a thread rather than a room - kind of like the Matrix for Nutters

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[BobKnoss 0]

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(12 or so lunatics...

Would that it were. A horse! A horse!

[BobKnoss 0]

"I feel like an all-around world-class Cooper expert after reading some of the stuff posted by Knoss."

Thank you. If you payed more attention and actually absorbed some of the information I present instead of refuting each individual word as a separate entity you might even become THE expert and get your Nobel statue, a gold badge, and a pair of silver studded waders. Instead of the Pinhead award from Bill O'Reilly.

[skyjack71 0]

After the tie tac has been made available it is easy to locate the cuff links that match the photo unless it was Custom made and the FBI said the tie tac was over the counter and not custom made.

How convenient - wonder how long it took Porteous to find them to cement his claim. I also have 2 sets of pearl cuff links but the do NOT match the tie the FBI put on the TV or this forum.

If these existed prior to NOW why didn't they produce them before. A lot of people will go to extremes to get what they want.
Why didn't I think of that one - shop until I found a pair that matched the tie tac - after all they do exist unless the tie tac was custom made.

I just think it is too Convenient.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 244]

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'How convenient - wonder how long it took Porteous to find them to cement his claim...'

Found by Christiansen's family in Morris, MN, not Porteous. And we have not seen the picture yet. No one has their hopes up here. It's probably not a match. However, if the tie tac was over the counter, maybe it's possible the hijacker could have bought matching cufflinks at the same time. Truth is, I don't even know if they make this stuff to match. I haven't owned a pair of cufflinks since I was eighteen.

One of the searchers for Cooper noticed what
appeared to be human offal (fresh). He collected
a sample. Wonder if that's Kenny's !

[georger 244]

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I don't know how to answer that last question.

Look, in the lack of any direct evidence (seen on the plane, linked to bills from the ransom), we continue to do what we can in the circumstantial evidence department. These things have to be checked out. We wouldn't be doing our job, otherwise.

I have all the pots n pans I can handle, a
washing machine, and a vacuum cleaner too.
I even have a canary that sings 'Stars n Stripes
Forever'. Try the neighbor down the road maybe.

[JerryThomas 0]

Jo. Funny thing just got done talking to Geof Gray. The book is not even out yet and he states no one has been given a copy of this book. He also sent me a email stating the same thing.I will even email Quaid a copy of the email Geof sent me. So what does this info make you.Jerry

[wilrat08 0]

My name is Bill Rattie, I found the brown penny loafer at the point the FBI's wind overlay marked DB coopers chute openeing just short of lake merwin dam. The location was about one hundred feet outside a pasture a fence on a remote farm far from any road. My MOS in the army was a RECON SGT. I can read a map better than anyone you know. Also, Iam a licenced pilot. Did anyone ever think he lost one shoe when the cute opened? Remember it was hard cold weather the night he jumped, and I cannot think he survived the drop. I was flying back from Denver to Seattle that night and my flight was delayed because of bad weather. When I finally got a flight that dark morning the weather was horrible. Also they found ground up money years later downstream of the river mouth into the Columbia. I would bet everything I own that DB is at the bottom of lake Merwin tangled in the trees. Guess this a is too simple. I stood there with a PRC25 on my back. Capt Lidig on my right an an x navy fighter pilot FBI agent looking at the overlay on the map I carried with the damn shoe in my hand. The shoe vanished and I have never heard anything about it again, By the way it was dark brown, good condition, and I don't remember any penny in it. Also, I wear a size eleven and this shoe wa a couple sizes smaller was smaller. wrrattie@gmail.com

[JerryThomas 0]

wilrat. are you the man that was part of the original army search team that now lives in Hawii. Jerry

[377 22]

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I stood there with a PRC25 on my back.

I've always wondered about the shoe. Thanks for checking in Wilrat. It is very possible for a loafer type shoe to come off during a hard opening.

The Prick 25 was an oversized beast given its low power output. Very outdated by 71 but still used by the Army long after more modern and much lighter VHF low band FM radio gear was available.

Wonder if Jerry used em?

http://www.tourofdutyinfo.com/ToDAdvisorwebpages/fieldradio2.html

Odd that the shoe vanished. Seems like it would have been treated as possible evidence, tagged, bagged etc.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.