377 22 #22276 March 4, 2011 At this point I'll take diatoms, borers, anything but camera equipped skunks. The money is indisputably Cooper's loot. We don't have much else that is free from dispute. The tie is a maybe, but the FBI has reason to think it's Cooper's for sure. They are also confident that the tie DNA is Cooper's. Lets focus on extracting every scintella of evidence from ithe money's condition, location, chemistry etc. If there was a debris field of money particles on Tena Bar, where are some samples or photos or mention of it in reports? It is hard to believe that something that relevant would be preserved only in the unwritten memories of the Fazios and a few others. Seems like the bickering has settled down and we can start doing some research again. That suits me fine. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryThomas 0 #22277 March 4, 2011 377. I thought Geoger would address this one. I guess not there are pictures of the bills. Bacteria and algae are responsible for most of the damage. I googled Diatom's a while back as it turns out they are quite hungry little creatures,They've even been used to clean microscopes and telescopes.They more than lickely played a part in the damage, Take a minute out of your time before your next post and google diatoms if I understand it correctly they could be the culprit or at least part of it . I do know that there was a lot of silver particles on the bills and the reason for that is there is a lot of silver in the streams,and because the FBI dusted the bills with silver nitrate for finger prints. Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #22278 March 4, 2011 QuoteAt this point I'll take diatoms, borers, anything but camera equipped skunks. The money is indisputably Cooper's loot. We don't have much else that is free from dispute. The tie is a maybe, but the FBI has reason to think it's Cooper's for sure. They are also confident that the tie DNA is Cooper's. Quote Larry told me in our only converstaion that he acknowledged that there was not 100% certainty the DNA material they extracted from the tie-pin was Cooper's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #22279 March 4, 2011 Bruce Stated: Larry told me in our only converstaion that he acknowledged that there was not 100% certainty the DNA material they extracted from the tie-pin was Cooper's. Surprise, surprise - surprise! I need someone to go to the Vancover permits and records and looked up the building and clearing permits along the river from the airport to the I-5 bridge. Also note I do NOT know how to look up the homes the flood took out between 1971 and 1979...but there was a flood during those yrs that took out a cabin or cottage in an area that was East of Winterly Park 1971- 978. There was also some damage going West regarding some other property - where some Water company is now located. I don't know what was there in 1971. Just East of Winterly Park 3 home existed when I went out there in 2001. When was this property cleared to build these homes and when was the other structure that was there removed (by flood or construction)? This is NO wild goose chase, but it is where others have not ventured to any extent. I had hoped to get a Mesker map (dated in the 70's) of the river - properties from the airport to I-5. This Mesker map will show the property owners of the time. This is very important to know . Tracing the owners of the property in 1971 - or shortly thereafter will provide names. These old Mesker map are very valuable. Jerry if you don't don't have the knowledge to do this - tell me who does or who I talk to in Vancouver who has the capablilites to pull what I am after. I believe part of the puzzle will be solved by just seeing the construction done and drain or storm damage done along that area thur these maps. Comparing an early Mesker Map prior to the Skyjacking with one done after the money find - will hopefully produce something to work with. If one of you live near Vancouver and know who I need to contact - I will arrange to have this taken care of. I did NOT really know what a Mesker map was until Last yr when a young lady help me acquire one of the Washougal area - and this is how we found the family Duane Weber knew - but too late to obtain verification because the only person who might have been able to remember who Dusty was - was in a nursing home with severe end term dementia. Jerry, I asked for your help yrs ago regarding the Washougal and Cames records, but I didn't know then such wonder maps existed. Well, the do exist and I have the one for Washougal (just one specific area and really need the other part that goes on over to the Washougal River). As far as the money find - I think perhaps it would be wise to pull the search into property across the river from PDX to I-5. Those maps alone - 2 sets one prior to 1971 and one after 1979 will not be cheap. These can only be done is segments and I don't know how man segments will be involved. Just find some one in the Vancouver Records department and who has the knowledge to do this...I can handle it by phone from there. I am willing to handle the cost on these areas because they are self serving on my part. Jerry for you own benefit you might want to look at areas East of the PDX and I do NOT mean on the Portand area - I am talking Washougal to Cames and to the point I want information on in Vancouver. This is something that HAS NOT been done before to my knowledge and if it was done it was done it was never made public. Yrs ago Sluggo tried to tell me what a Mesker Map was and I just didn't get it. NOW, I do. Someone in Vancouver get me the phone contacts for the right parties and I can do it by phone - the county employees don't do this for you - but, they will probably know someone I can hire to do it. I had planned on doing this last Oct of 2010, but ran out of time and money...and had to come home. I am looking for specific owner names and changes in the properties - flood damage and construction. Right now I do not have any phone numbers or any knowledge of who handles this in Vancouver. I will tell you one name that will definitely show up on the Mesker Maps I am looking for - that is Monroe. When you find the Nonroe property then you are on target. That property IS no longer Monroe property and the name Monroe has NOTHING to do with Cooper - just someone I met in WA who lived on the river near the areas of concern - so Monroe is a starting point for me. I just typed a chain of memories and deleted them. They say that when we die our life flashes before us. I just had a flash about the trip and I wrote a long post about it and deleted it. Jerry you are right about something! The crew took me to the Fazion Farm the wrong WAY. Duane was dumping money not digging anything up at every location other than the Green Tank. There may have been 3 deposits made on that day - but WHY would someone put the Skyjacking money in 3 places along the river? Why wasn't more money found? I don't think Duane dug anything up in the Vancouver area - I think he buried it. I think maybe I have been drinking, but there is NONE in the house. I think I sound like Knoss tonight - OH GOD it is contagious! Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 22 #22280 March 4, 2011 Quote377. I thought Geoger would address this one. I guess not there are pictures of the bills. Bacteria and algae are responsible for most of the damage. I googled Diatom's a while back as it turns out they are quite hungry little creatures,They've even been used to clean microscopes and telescopes.They more than lickely played a part in the damage, Take a minute out of your time before your next post and google diatoms if I understand it correctly they could be the culprit or at least part of it . I do know that there was a lot of silver particles on the bills and the reason for that is there is a lot of silver in the streams,and because the FBI dusted the bills with silver nitrate for finger prints. Jerry Jerry, I did some simple searching and reading on diatoms. I don't think the holes in the bill stacks were made by diatoms. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Farflung 0 #22281 March 4, 2011 The legal system has a standard called reasonable doubt which allows for the dismissal of the wild ass and feral scenarios some people seem born to produce with little or no effort. I guess the founding fathers were all too familiar with Elvis spotters and Roswell alien ‘probees’ even though they were not to be invented for another 200 years. Strange, isn’t it? Is there a 100% certainty that Cooper was a male? 100% certainty. This should be easy. Roger Keith Coleman was convicted of murder with less than 100% certainty. That is something that our court system does on a daily basis. Moreover he was sentenced to death. But he said he didn’t do it and his last words were about how an innocent man was being killed. Then a group of people take up his cause and screamed injustice. An ‘innocent’ person has been executed and this is an outrage. Then DNA samples are tested and this group hangs their hat on how this will finally prove his innocence. They even had cameras on scene to record the phone call which would verify this perfidy. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10823771/ Well the DNA matched Coleman’s and it looked like the right guy was convicted. The odds of another match was estimated to be 1 in 19 million. Which is NOT a 100% certainty. In fact it leaves the possibility open for 16 other people in the US to have committed this murder. Perhaps Coleman should have been set free since there still is no 100% certainty that he was guilty. Is there a 100% certainty that DB Cooper was a male? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryThomas 0 #22282 March 4, 2011 Bruce what kind of Bs Have you started this time Duane was not Cooper all you have done is Give someone a chance to start a new story what are you thinking> Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryThomas 0 #22283 March 4, 2011 Jo .You already know you can find every map you are looking for to put in your book on the internet. So what is it you are realy looking for and be specific tell me exactly what you are missing and what you need so I can find it and you can get your book to the publisher. Maybe yours and Galen Cooks book will hit the shelfs at the same time. Lord knows the Library's of this great nation is starving for more fiction books.Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryThomas 0 #22284 March 4, 2011 Farflung. Hmmmm. Is this you hoping he was female and lesbian, wiishful thinking on your part.Or just trying to make a point or both. My guess its both. Lets assume that (it,She ,He,) is left to the uknown. If Cooper was a she then Blevins, Cook,Nuttall. and Jo, Have just made large fools of themselve's. This changes the status of there books and future books,from fiction.To just plain nonsense. Also meaning that there research was a farflung farce.Maybe your point is perfect I like it. Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 22 #22285 March 4, 2011 Farflung wrote: Quote Is there a 100% certainty that DB Cooper was a male? Barb Dayton doesn't count? 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #22286 March 4, 2011 QuoteFarflung wrote: QuoteIs there a 100% certainty that DB Cooper was a male? Yes. He passed the Huck Finn test. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #22287 March 4, 2011 QuoteJo .You already know you can find every map you are looking for to put in your book on the internet. So what is it you are realy looking for and be specific tell me exactly what you are missing and what you need so I can find it and you can get your book to the publisher. Maybe yours and Galen Cooks book will hit the shelfs at the same time. Lord knows the Library's of this great nation is starving for more fiction books.Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #22288 March 5, 2011 Quote Jo .You already know you can find every map you are looking for to put in your book on the internet. So what is it you are realy looking for and be specific tell me exactly what you are missing and what you need so I can find it and you can get your book to the publisher. Maybe yours and Galen Cooks book will hit the shelfs at the same time. Lord knows the Library's of this great nation is starving for more fiction books.Jerry How in the world did you derive that I am doing a book? That is your own conclusion - are you sure that it is not you having someone write a book about your search? The Mesker Maps are NOT available on line nor in the library - only in the county records. Why I was asking for local help. The old permits are NOT on line nor are the buildings that were destroyed in any flood or by other means. This can only be done by someone diligenty searching these records which have been archived. That takes time and money. If the FBI did this in 1980 or shortly after the money find, there will be NO need to repeat it. It is my understanding the FBI did NOT do this specific kind or research. This should have been one of the first things the FBI should have done right after the money find. Instead this has been allowed to continue on and on creating the "mystery" of the money find...rather than to look for logical explanations. If I wanted to write a book the opportunities of writers appeared right off the bat - but, I also felt there were enough "Cooper Fiction Books" on the market. Put your indifference with me in a box for awhile and the mystery of the money might be solve and NO it will NOT prove Weber was Cooper. If you truely want to be a part of the discovery put your indifferences toward me aside and work toward solutions never before explored. The current mode of research by the FBI did not produce results so it is time to try something else. I suggested this kind of search yrs ago, but had no knowledge of these maps and what they could reveal.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #22289 March 5, 2011 Quote Quote Jo .You already know you can find every map you are looking for to put in your book on the internet. So what is it you are realy looking for and be specific tell me exactly what you are missing and what you need so I can find it and you can get your book to the publisher. Maybe yours and Galen Cooks book will hit the shelfs at the same time. Lord knows the Library's of this great nation is starving for more fiction books.Jerry How in the world did you derive that I am doing a book? That is your own conclusion - are you sure that it is not you having someone write a book about your search? The Mesker Maps are NOT available on line nor in the library - only in the county records. Why I was asking for local help. The old permits are NOT on line nor are the buildings that were destroyed in any flood or by other means. This can only be done by someone diligenty searching these records which have been archived. That takes time and money. If the FBI did this in 1980 or shortly after the money find, there will be NO need to repeat it. It is my understanding the FBI did NOT do this specific kind or research. This should have been one of the first things the FBI should have done right after the money find. Instead this has been allowed to continue on and on creating the "mystery" of the money find...rather than to look for logical explanations. If I wanted to write a book the opportunities of writers appeared right off the bat - but, I also felt there were enough "Cooper Fiction Books" on the market. Put your indifference with me in a box for awhile and the mystery of the money might be solve and NO it will NOT prove Weber was Cooper. If you truely want to be a part of the discovery put your indifferences toward me aside and work toward solutions never before explored. The current mode of research by the FBI did not produce results so it is time to try something else. I suggested this kind of search yrs ago, but had no knowledge of these maps and what they could reveal. As usual, you may have it wrong. It's METSKER MAPS not Mesker? See: http://www.metskers.com/ Thats all I know. Otherwise there would have been maps etc in the County Recorder's Office? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #22290 March 5, 2011 Quote As usual, you may have it wrong. It's METSKER MAPS not Mesker? See: http://www.metskers.com/ Thats all I know. Otherwise there would have been maps etc in the County Recorder's Office? Now I need the Vancouver area and that will encase several maps - to cover the area from Cames to I-5. I will try the web site you quoted, but that did NOT work for the Washougal area. I was also told that NOT all areas of WA had Metsker maps. Thank you. If as Jerry claimed you do go to WA and have family out there - do you think one of them would do this for a fee. P. S. I just went there and that was the same WALL I banged my head against before. Key in areas and ask for Metsker maps! All kinds of maps, but not the old Metsker maps of the regions...Most of the OLD Metsker maps have never been made available on-line....why I only got the Washougal stuff when someone physically went there and searched old fragil originals for me. The specific map I am looking for outlines the individual plats of land and has the owners name within it. How I found the name of individuals Duane knew in Wa at the foothill of the "mountain" Jerry told me did not exist. It is there and I went there and I have a witness who was with me in Oct of 2011. Yet, Jerry told me from 1996 until recently that it DID NOT exist! Just like he said the other things I told him did NOT exist. He cost me 14 yrs of my life chasing something I trusted him with because Himmelsbach told me he was the one to do this. I had shared this information with Himmelsbach, but he told me that Jerry was the one to do the ground searches. The FBI didn't want to hear anything I had to say....they had already decided that Duane was NOT Cooper in 1998 and then later in 2003 they asked for his DNA,yet did not do the first test until the end of 2007? Someone has to know an individual in the area who is intelligent enough to know what I am trying to find and reproduce the copies. I really need help doing this so I can finish up what I started. NO one else will know the name buried in my memory, but me such as the 2 names I found on the Washougal map. Those were dead ON - I kept thinking one was something like Rufus, but it was a similar sounding name and the moment I saw it I knew I had one of Duane's contacts in the area. The mother and father who Duane had know were deceased as where 2 of their sons and the other one - was useless. I also found a grave location, but I don't understand this - 1971. I also found that xxxx Duane knew in another area who owned a piece of property in a location Duane pointed out and said he used to know XXXX who owned this piece of property. The Metsker map (I obtained about 9 months ago) of that small area around Washougal put some pieces together for me and I found some pieces of the puzzle that fit into place. NONE of what I found will prove Duane was Cooper, but they do prove Duane had a past in the WA/OR area. It will just have to be enough - I am very tired and I have used up some very valuable yrs that should have been used differently. Yes, Orange that was my choice - that is just how I am. I was never one to walk away or to leave a job incomplete. This time I may have NO choice. By the WAY even with all of Blevins' claimes a certain individual wanted to interview me...I never heard from him. Perhaps this was because I made it clear I did NOT want to appear on camera. He would have access to pictures never before made public with the artist concepts of each in comparison to the various composites - and studies done by a portrait artist and by a retired forensic artist...today they use computers.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #22291 March 5, 2011 Quote Quote As usual, you may have it wrong. It's METSKER MAPS not Mesker? See: http://www.metskers.com/ Thats all I know. Otherwise there would have been maps etc in the County Recorder's Office? Now I need the Vancouver area and that will encase several maps - to cover the area from Cames to I-5. I will try the web site you quoted, but that did NOT work for the Washougal area. I was also told that NOT all areas of WA had Metsker maps. Thank you. If as Jerry claimed you do go to WA and have family out there - do you think one of them would do this for a fee. Jo I am not going there any time soon and dont want to get involved in this, in any event. Hope you understand. Maybe a call to the Clerk of Records (?) of the County Courthouse that covers your area of interest would get the maps you want, or a reference to whoever has the maps you want? I dont know what else to suggest ... I am willing to bet an appraiser or realtor that works that area could direct you? You were a realtor... ??? Maybe you know someone who has a connection to Portland Vancouver ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryThomas 0 #22292 March 5, 2011 Jo All the info you are looking for can be found by loging in to the clark county library and searching there archives. There is also the washougal library. Or the vancouver library.All the maps and history you will ever desire is there I know I've seen it. This includes names the original owners and homesteads ever recorded. Disasters are included. Don't waist your money on investigators. Oh be advised I also helped compile and research the history that is in the librarys.Back in the early 90s the Camas Washougal historical society compiled a lot of info from the early setlers and children from that area. most of the childrens ages was between the 70s to 90s one of them was a personal friend of mine she lived across the street from me in washougal she died in 1999 at 101 years old she was born in the area and her children also assisted.Shellys family goes back to the 1800's in that area. We even have her great, great Grand parents Mariage certificate dated 17 December 1903. for proof.So there is plenty of info for what ever date disaster chrisis and names /owners of land for you to find.Also in the librarys there is the same info that all title companys search to verify owners and past owners of land. As a real estate agent you should have realized that the clark county tax records will yield any past owner of any property you are looking for . What the hell do you think I did every time you and some one else gave me a story to research.The only thing you can't do is physically hold the documents and read them like I did and go to each location and search. Like I have.Mestkers and Thomas maps also have archives in which you can research and purchase copies of past published maps.Im not positive but I think these Maps were updated every 10 yrs. If you can't find what you are looking for let me know and I'll direct you to where it can be found that way you don't have to take my word for it. Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #22293 March 5, 2011 QuoteBruce what kind of Bs Have you started this time Duane was not Cooper all you have done is Give someone a chance to start a new story what are you thinking> Jerry Quote Jerry, I don't know what you are talking about. I said something about Duane not being Cooper? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryThomas 0 #22294 March 5, 2011 Bruce my mistake that post was directed to 377 not you I was going to send you a PM after that post. And also corect it. I didn't realize the mistake for awhile, when I did the signal went out. Im on broad band. And my signal go's down at certain times of the day. By the way don't buy the new verizon global hot spot it sucks. Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #22295 March 5, 2011 Quote I am willing to bet an appraiser or realtor that works that area could direct you? You were a realtor... ??? Maybe you know someone who has a connection to Portland Vancouver ? That's what I thought also, but I guess the realtors in that area must stay busy - no one wanted to pick up some extra money. The appraisers want their usual fee per plat - we are talking hundreds per plat and thousands of plats.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryThomas 0 #22296 March 5, 2011 Jo one more thing your story about me telling you about a mountain that didn't exist is a out and out lie. There was never a time that took place. So stop the lies and the made up stories and I'll continue assisting you. Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #22297 March 5, 2011 Larry told me in our only converstaion that he acknowledged that there was not 100% certainty the DNA material they extracted from the tie-pin was Cooper's. BULL! Bruce, this is the post Jerry was referring to and there is no other post he could have been referencing...Jerry does not know who he is talking to most of the time and all anyone has to do is make any reference that places any logic into this case or show any reference to Weber and JERRY is ALL OVER IT. His only objective in the thread is to bash Weber if anything is remotely said that might point to Weber still being a suspect. His mission is to silence me and any thing on Weber just like a man who promoted Coffelt was silenced..." A matter of National Security"...I can put you in contact with the Coffelt man - he was alive about 3 months ago and that is the last time I talked to him. Odd that Coffelt and Weber both worked for the same man out of TX.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #22298 March 5, 2011 QuoteJo one more thing your story about me telling you about a mountain that didn't exist is a out and out lie. There was never a time that took place. So stop the lies and the made up stories and I'll continue assisting you. Jerry Jerry how have you assisted me? I told you about a small Mt/ or hill in Washougal North of Lake LaCames and you told me it did NOT exist. Even when I told you about it a couple of months ago after I got back from WA this last time. What did you tell me at that time? You didn't want to talk about it...and I wanted to know why you lied to me about this and I told you the name of the man who lived at the foot of "hill". You REFUSED to discuss it on the phone. This was the "hill" or "little Mt" I described to you in 1997 that had the curvy road and at the top was an area that had wire fencing around it and an old wooden gate. Inside of the fenced area was large boulders that made it look like a cemetry. I kept thinking it could may have been an old homestead, but didn't understand why they didn't remove all the boulders. There were large old trees that looked like they were dead. You mentioned your wife's family owning property there and you also told me there was a large shopping center there now...by the way I found the shopping center and that is a LONG ways from this "hill" or "little Mt". This was the hill or MT from which Duane pointed to an area and mentioned the power lines stating "you could walk for miles before all the undergrowth" and then in the other direction told me about the power lines converging with the pipelines and that "you could walk all the way to the Columbia from there". He point back at the direction from which we had come and talked about the creek or tributary that went back to the body of water. The body of water I found out was Lake LaCames. The body of water you claimed Duane had turned me around and that I was back on the Columbia even though I insisted I knew we were NOT on the Columbia. That body of water was Lake LaCames which I would not have found had it not have been for the Angel Udell...and this was after the camera crew had left. We have already covered this before. Why keep denying any knowledge of this? Anyone who has listened to me for yrs - knows this story has NEVER changed and I found it and you said it did NOT exist....since 1997 you have told me it did NOT exist and you refused to discuss it on the phone after I got back from my 2010 WA trip. WHY? It no longer looks the way it used to, but it was still there and there is NO WAY you could NOT have know since day one I was talking about the Lake LaCames area.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryThomas 0 #22299 March 5, 2011 Jo you make all these references to Duane Weber and connect the dots the only problem is there was more than one Duane weber. Now! all your stories are made up every one knows it. Why do you want to make more? Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryThomas 0 #22300 March 5, 2011 Power lines hell Jo that was your third story in 96 your second story was a fire tower on a hill with a bunch of antenas on it and what the hell ever happened to the old dodge red truck that duane was suposed to be picked up in after the jump but his acomplace got lost. 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skyjack71 0 #22279 March 4, 2011 Bruce Stated: Larry told me in our only converstaion that he acknowledged that there was not 100% certainty the DNA material they extracted from the tie-pin was Cooper's. Surprise, surprise - surprise! I need someone to go to the Vancover permits and records and looked up the building and clearing permits along the river from the airport to the I-5 bridge. Also note I do NOT know how to look up the homes the flood took out between 1971 and 1979...but there was a flood during those yrs that took out a cabin or cottage in an area that was East of Winterly Park 1971- 978. There was also some damage going West regarding some other property - where some Water company is now located. I don't know what was there in 1971. Just East of Winterly Park 3 home existed when I went out there in 2001. When was this property cleared to build these homes and when was the other structure that was there removed (by flood or construction)? This is NO wild goose chase, but it is where others have not ventured to any extent. I had hoped to get a Mesker map (dated in the 70's) of the river - properties from the airport to I-5. This Mesker map will show the property owners of the time. This is very important to know . Tracing the owners of the property in 1971 - or shortly thereafter will provide names. These old Mesker map are very valuable. Jerry if you don't don't have the knowledge to do this - tell me who does or who I talk to in Vancouver who has the capablilites to pull what I am after. I believe part of the puzzle will be solved by just seeing the construction done and drain or storm damage done along that area thur these maps. Comparing an early Mesker Map prior to the Skyjacking with one done after the money find - will hopefully produce something to work with. If one of you live near Vancouver and know who I need to contact - I will arrange to have this taken care of. I did NOT really know what a Mesker map was until Last yr when a young lady help me acquire one of the Washougal area - and this is how we found the family Duane Weber knew - but too late to obtain verification because the only person who might have been able to remember who Dusty was - was in a nursing home with severe end term dementia. Jerry, I asked for your help yrs ago regarding the Washougal and Cames records, but I didn't know then such wonder maps existed. Well, the do exist and I have the one for Washougal (just one specific area and really need the other part that goes on over to the Washougal River). As far as the money find - I think perhaps it would be wise to pull the search into property across the river from PDX to I-5. Those maps alone - 2 sets one prior to 1971 and one after 1979 will not be cheap. These can only be done is segments and I don't know how man segments will be involved. Just find some one in the Vancouver Records department and who has the knowledge to do this...I can handle it by phone from there. I am willing to handle the cost on these areas because they are self serving on my part. Jerry for you own benefit you might want to look at areas East of the PDX and I do NOT mean on the Portand area - I am talking Washougal to Cames and to the point I want information on in Vancouver. This is something that HAS NOT been done before to my knowledge and if it was done it was done it was never made public. Yrs ago Sluggo tried to tell me what a Mesker Map was and I just didn't get it. NOW, I do. Someone in Vancouver get me the phone contacts for the right parties and I can do it by phone - the county employees don't do this for you - but, they will probably know someone I can hire to do it. I had planned on doing this last Oct of 2010, but ran out of time and money...and had to come home. I am looking for specific owner names and changes in the properties - flood damage and construction. Right now I do not have any phone numbers or any knowledge of who handles this in Vancouver. I will tell you one name that will definitely show up on the Mesker Maps I am looking for - that is Monroe. When you find the Nonroe property then you are on target. That property IS no longer Monroe property and the name Monroe has NOTHING to do with Cooper - just someone I met in WA who lived on the river near the areas of concern - so Monroe is a starting point for me. I just typed a chain of memories and deleted them. They say that when we die our life flashes before us. I just had a flash about the trip and I wrote a long post about it and deleted it. Jerry you are right about something! The crew took me to the Fazion Farm the wrong WAY. Duane was dumping money not digging anything up at every location other than the Green Tank. There may have been 3 deposits made on that day - but WHY would someone put the Skyjacking money in 3 places along the river? Why wasn't more money found? I don't think Duane dug anything up in the Vancouver area - I think he buried it. I think maybe I have been drinking, but there is NONE in the house. I think I sound like Knoss tonight - OH GOD it is contagious! Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #22280 March 4, 2011 Quote377. I thought Geoger would address this one. I guess not there are pictures of the bills. Bacteria and algae are responsible for most of the damage. I googled Diatom's a while back as it turns out they are quite hungry little creatures,They've even been used to clean microscopes and telescopes.They more than lickely played a part in the damage, Take a minute out of your time before your next post and google diatoms if I understand it correctly they could be the culprit or at least part of it . I do know that there was a lot of silver particles on the bills and the reason for that is there is a lot of silver in the streams,and because the FBI dusted the bills with silver nitrate for finger prints. Jerry Jerry, I did some simple searching and reading on diatoms. I don't think the holes in the bill stacks were made by diatoms. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farflung 0 #22281 March 4, 2011 The legal system has a standard called reasonable doubt which allows for the dismissal of the wild ass and feral scenarios some people seem born to produce with little or no effort. I guess the founding fathers were all too familiar with Elvis spotters and Roswell alien ‘probees’ even though they were not to be invented for another 200 years. Strange, isn’t it? Is there a 100% certainty that Cooper was a male? 100% certainty. This should be easy. Roger Keith Coleman was convicted of murder with less than 100% certainty. That is something that our court system does on a daily basis. Moreover he was sentenced to death. But he said he didn’t do it and his last words were about how an innocent man was being killed. Then a group of people take up his cause and screamed injustice. An ‘innocent’ person has been executed and this is an outrage. Then DNA samples are tested and this group hangs their hat on how this will finally prove his innocence. They even had cameras on scene to record the phone call which would verify this perfidy. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10823771/ Well the DNA matched Coleman’s and it looked like the right guy was convicted. The odds of another match was estimated to be 1 in 19 million. Which is NOT a 100% certainty. In fact it leaves the possibility open for 16 other people in the US to have committed this murder. Perhaps Coleman should have been set free since there still is no 100% certainty that he was guilty. Is there a 100% certainty that DB Cooper was a male? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryThomas 0 #22282 March 4, 2011 Bruce what kind of Bs Have you started this time Duane was not Cooper all you have done is Give someone a chance to start a new story what are you thinking> Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryThomas 0 #22283 March 4, 2011 Jo .You already know you can find every map you are looking for to put in your book on the internet. So what is it you are realy looking for and be specific tell me exactly what you are missing and what you need so I can find it and you can get your book to the publisher. Maybe yours and Galen Cooks book will hit the shelfs at the same time. Lord knows the Library's of this great nation is starving for more fiction books.Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryThomas 0 #22284 March 4, 2011 Farflung. Hmmmm. Is this you hoping he was female and lesbian, wiishful thinking on your part.Or just trying to make a point or both. My guess its both. Lets assume that (it,She ,He,) is left to the uknown. If Cooper was a she then Blevins, Cook,Nuttall. and Jo, Have just made large fools of themselve's. This changes the status of there books and future books,from fiction.To just plain nonsense. Also meaning that there research was a farflung farce.Maybe your point is perfect I like it. Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #22285 March 4, 2011 Farflung wrote: Quote Is there a 100% certainty that DB Cooper was a male? Barb Dayton doesn't count? 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #22286 March 4, 2011 QuoteFarflung wrote: QuoteIs there a 100% certainty that DB Cooper was a male? Yes. He passed the Huck Finn test. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #22287 March 4, 2011 QuoteJo .You already know you can find every map you are looking for to put in your book on the internet. So what is it you are realy looking for and be specific tell me exactly what you are missing and what you need so I can find it and you can get your book to the publisher. Maybe yours and Galen Cooks book will hit the shelfs at the same time. Lord knows the Library's of this great nation is starving for more fiction books.Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #22288 March 5, 2011 Quote Jo .You already know you can find every map you are looking for to put in your book on the internet. So what is it you are realy looking for and be specific tell me exactly what you are missing and what you need so I can find it and you can get your book to the publisher. Maybe yours and Galen Cooks book will hit the shelfs at the same time. Lord knows the Library's of this great nation is starving for more fiction books.Jerry How in the world did you derive that I am doing a book? That is your own conclusion - are you sure that it is not you having someone write a book about your search? The Mesker Maps are NOT available on line nor in the library - only in the county records. Why I was asking for local help. The old permits are NOT on line nor are the buildings that were destroyed in any flood or by other means. This can only be done by someone diligenty searching these records which have been archived. That takes time and money. If the FBI did this in 1980 or shortly after the money find, there will be NO need to repeat it. It is my understanding the FBI did NOT do this specific kind or research. This should have been one of the first things the FBI should have done right after the money find. Instead this has been allowed to continue on and on creating the "mystery" of the money find...rather than to look for logical explanations. If I wanted to write a book the opportunities of writers appeared right off the bat - but, I also felt there were enough "Cooper Fiction Books" on the market. Put your indifference with me in a box for awhile and the mystery of the money might be solve and NO it will NOT prove Weber was Cooper. If you truely want to be a part of the discovery put your indifferences toward me aside and work toward solutions never before explored. The current mode of research by the FBI did not produce results so it is time to try something else. I suggested this kind of search yrs ago, but had no knowledge of these maps and what they could reveal.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #22289 March 5, 2011 Quote Quote Jo .You already know you can find every map you are looking for to put in your book on the internet. So what is it you are realy looking for and be specific tell me exactly what you are missing and what you need so I can find it and you can get your book to the publisher. Maybe yours and Galen Cooks book will hit the shelfs at the same time. Lord knows the Library's of this great nation is starving for more fiction books.Jerry How in the world did you derive that I am doing a book? That is your own conclusion - are you sure that it is not you having someone write a book about your search? The Mesker Maps are NOT available on line nor in the library - only in the county records. Why I was asking for local help. The old permits are NOT on line nor are the buildings that were destroyed in any flood or by other means. This can only be done by someone diligenty searching these records which have been archived. That takes time and money. If the FBI did this in 1980 or shortly after the money find, there will be NO need to repeat it. It is my understanding the FBI did NOT do this specific kind or research. This should have been one of the first things the FBI should have done right after the money find. Instead this has been allowed to continue on and on creating the "mystery" of the money find...rather than to look for logical explanations. If I wanted to write a book the opportunities of writers appeared right off the bat - but, I also felt there were enough "Cooper Fiction Books" on the market. Put your indifference with me in a box for awhile and the mystery of the money might be solve and NO it will NOT prove Weber was Cooper. If you truely want to be a part of the discovery put your indifferences toward me aside and work toward solutions never before explored. The current mode of research by the FBI did not produce results so it is time to try something else. I suggested this kind of search yrs ago, but had no knowledge of these maps and what they could reveal. As usual, you may have it wrong. It's METSKER MAPS not Mesker? See: http://www.metskers.com/ Thats all I know. Otherwise there would have been maps etc in the County Recorder's Office? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #22290 March 5, 2011 Quote As usual, you may have it wrong. It's METSKER MAPS not Mesker? See: http://www.metskers.com/ Thats all I know. Otherwise there would have been maps etc in the County Recorder's Office? Now I need the Vancouver area and that will encase several maps - to cover the area from Cames to I-5. I will try the web site you quoted, but that did NOT work for the Washougal area. I was also told that NOT all areas of WA had Metsker maps. Thank you. If as Jerry claimed you do go to WA and have family out there - do you think one of them would do this for a fee. P. S. I just went there and that was the same WALL I banged my head against before. Key in areas and ask for Metsker maps! All kinds of maps, but not the old Metsker maps of the regions...Most of the OLD Metsker maps have never been made available on-line....why I only got the Washougal stuff when someone physically went there and searched old fragil originals for me. The specific map I am looking for outlines the individual plats of land and has the owners name within it. How I found the name of individuals Duane knew in Wa at the foothill of the "mountain" Jerry told me did not exist. It is there and I went there and I have a witness who was with me in Oct of 2011. Yet, Jerry told me from 1996 until recently that it DID NOT exist! Just like he said the other things I told him did NOT exist. He cost me 14 yrs of my life chasing something I trusted him with because Himmelsbach told me he was the one to do this. I had shared this information with Himmelsbach, but he told me that Jerry was the one to do the ground searches. The FBI didn't want to hear anything I had to say....they had already decided that Duane was NOT Cooper in 1998 and then later in 2003 they asked for his DNA,yet did not do the first test until the end of 2007? Someone has to know an individual in the area who is intelligent enough to know what I am trying to find and reproduce the copies. I really need help doing this so I can finish up what I started. NO one else will know the name buried in my memory, but me such as the 2 names I found on the Washougal map. Those were dead ON - I kept thinking one was something like Rufus, but it was a similar sounding name and the moment I saw it I knew I had one of Duane's contacts in the area. The mother and father who Duane had know were deceased as where 2 of their sons and the other one - was useless. I also found a grave location, but I don't understand this - 1971. I also found that xxxx Duane knew in another area who owned a piece of property in a location Duane pointed out and said he used to know XXXX who owned this piece of property. The Metsker map (I obtained about 9 months ago) of that small area around Washougal put some pieces together for me and I found some pieces of the puzzle that fit into place. NONE of what I found will prove Duane was Cooper, but they do prove Duane had a past in the WA/OR area. It will just have to be enough - I am very tired and I have used up some very valuable yrs that should have been used differently. Yes, Orange that was my choice - that is just how I am. I was never one to walk away or to leave a job incomplete. This time I may have NO choice. By the WAY even with all of Blevins' claimes a certain individual wanted to interview me...I never heard from him. Perhaps this was because I made it clear I did NOT want to appear on camera. He would have access to pictures never before made public with the artist concepts of each in comparison to the various composites - and studies done by a portrait artist and by a retired forensic artist...today they use computers.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #22291 March 5, 2011 Quote Quote As usual, you may have it wrong. It's METSKER MAPS not Mesker? See: http://www.metskers.com/ Thats all I know. Otherwise there would have been maps etc in the County Recorder's Office? Now I need the Vancouver area and that will encase several maps - to cover the area from Cames to I-5. I will try the web site you quoted, but that did NOT work for the Washougal area. I was also told that NOT all areas of WA had Metsker maps. Thank you. If as Jerry claimed you do go to WA and have family out there - do you think one of them would do this for a fee. Jo I am not going there any time soon and dont want to get involved in this, in any event. Hope you understand. Maybe a call to the Clerk of Records (?) of the County Courthouse that covers your area of interest would get the maps you want, or a reference to whoever has the maps you want? I dont know what else to suggest ... I am willing to bet an appraiser or realtor that works that area could direct you? You were a realtor... ??? Maybe you know someone who has a connection to Portland Vancouver ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryThomas 0 #22292 March 5, 2011 Jo All the info you are looking for can be found by loging in to the clark county library and searching there archives. There is also the washougal library. Or the vancouver library.All the maps and history you will ever desire is there I know I've seen it. This includes names the original owners and homesteads ever recorded. Disasters are included. Don't waist your money on investigators. Oh be advised I also helped compile and research the history that is in the librarys.Back in the early 90s the Camas Washougal historical society compiled a lot of info from the early setlers and children from that area. most of the childrens ages was between the 70s to 90s one of them was a personal friend of mine she lived across the street from me in washougal she died in 1999 at 101 years old she was born in the area and her children also assisted.Shellys family goes back to the 1800's in that area. We even have her great, great Grand parents Mariage certificate dated 17 December 1903. for proof.So there is plenty of info for what ever date disaster chrisis and names /owners of land for you to find.Also in the librarys there is the same info that all title companys search to verify owners and past owners of land. As a real estate agent you should have realized that the clark county tax records will yield any past owner of any property you are looking for . What the hell do you think I did every time you and some one else gave me a story to research.The only thing you can't do is physically hold the documents and read them like I did and go to each location and search. Like I have.Mestkers and Thomas maps also have archives in which you can research and purchase copies of past published maps.Im not positive but I think these Maps were updated every 10 yrs. If you can't find what you are looking for let me know and I'll direct you to where it can be found that way you don't have to take my word for it. Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #22293 March 5, 2011 QuoteBruce what kind of Bs Have you started this time Duane was not Cooper all you have done is Give someone a chance to start a new story what are you thinking> Jerry Quote Jerry, I don't know what you are talking about. I said something about Duane not being Cooper? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryThomas 0 #22294 March 5, 2011 Bruce my mistake that post was directed to 377 not you I was going to send you a PM after that post. And also corect it. I didn't realize the mistake for awhile, when I did the signal went out. Im on broad band. And my signal go's down at certain times of the day. By the way don't buy the new verizon global hot spot it sucks. Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #22295 March 5, 2011 Quote I am willing to bet an appraiser or realtor that works that area could direct you? You were a realtor... ??? Maybe you know someone who has a connection to Portland Vancouver ? That's what I thought also, but I guess the realtors in that area must stay busy - no one wanted to pick up some extra money. The appraisers want their usual fee per plat - we are talking hundreds per plat and thousands of plats.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryThomas 0 #22296 March 5, 2011 Jo one more thing your story about me telling you about a mountain that didn't exist is a out and out lie. There was never a time that took place. So stop the lies and the made up stories and I'll continue assisting you. Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #22297 March 5, 2011 Larry told me in our only converstaion that he acknowledged that there was not 100% certainty the DNA material they extracted from the tie-pin was Cooper's. BULL! Bruce, this is the post Jerry was referring to and there is no other post he could have been referencing...Jerry does not know who he is talking to most of the time and all anyone has to do is make any reference that places any logic into this case or show any reference to Weber and JERRY is ALL OVER IT. His only objective in the thread is to bash Weber if anything is remotely said that might point to Weber still being a suspect. His mission is to silence me and any thing on Weber just like a man who promoted Coffelt was silenced..." A matter of National Security"...I can put you in contact with the Coffelt man - he was alive about 3 months ago and that is the last time I talked to him. Odd that Coffelt and Weber both worked for the same man out of TX.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryThomas 0 #22294 March 5, 2011 Bruce my mistake that post was directed to 377 not you I was going to send you a PM after that post. And also corect it. I didn't realize the mistake for awhile, when I did the signal went out. Im on broad band. And my signal go's down at certain times of the day. By the way don't buy the new verizon global hot spot it sucks. Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #22295 March 5, 2011 Quote I am willing to bet an appraiser or realtor that works that area could direct you? You were a realtor... ??? Maybe you know someone who has a connection to Portland Vancouver ? That's what I thought also, but I guess the realtors in that area must stay busy - no one wanted to pick up some extra money. The appraisers want their usual fee per plat - we are talking hundreds per plat and thousands of plats.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryThomas 0 #22296 March 5, 2011 Jo one more thing your story about me telling you about a mountain that didn't exist is a out and out lie. There was never a time that took place. So stop the lies and the made up stories and I'll continue assisting you. Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #22297 March 5, 2011 Larry told me in our only converstaion that he acknowledged that there was not 100% certainty the DNA material they extracted from the tie-pin was Cooper's. BULL! Bruce, this is the post Jerry was referring to and there is no other post he could have been referencing...Jerry does not know who he is talking to most of the time and all anyone has to do is make any reference that places any logic into this case or show any reference to Weber and JERRY is ALL OVER IT. His only objective in the thread is to bash Weber if anything is remotely said that might point to Weber still being a suspect. His mission is to silence me and any thing on Weber just like a man who promoted Coffelt was silenced..." A matter of National Security"...I can put you in contact with the Coffelt man - he was alive about 3 months ago and that is the last time I talked to him. Odd that Coffelt and Weber both worked for the same man out of TX.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #22298 March 5, 2011 QuoteJo one more thing your story about me telling you about a mountain that didn't exist is a out and out lie. There was never a time that took place. So stop the lies and the made up stories and I'll continue assisting you. Jerry Jerry how have you assisted me? I told you about a small Mt/ or hill in Washougal North of Lake LaCames and you told me it did NOT exist. Even when I told you about it a couple of months ago after I got back from WA this last time. What did you tell me at that time? You didn't want to talk about it...and I wanted to know why you lied to me about this and I told you the name of the man who lived at the foot of "hill". You REFUSED to discuss it on the phone. This was the "hill" or "little Mt" I described to you in 1997 that had the curvy road and at the top was an area that had wire fencing around it and an old wooden gate. Inside of the fenced area was large boulders that made it look like a cemetry. I kept thinking it could may have been an old homestead, but didn't understand why they didn't remove all the boulders. There were large old trees that looked like they were dead. You mentioned your wife's family owning property there and you also told me there was a large shopping center there now...by the way I found the shopping center and that is a LONG ways from this "hill" or "little Mt". This was the hill or MT from which Duane pointed to an area and mentioned the power lines stating "you could walk for miles before all the undergrowth" and then in the other direction told me about the power lines converging with the pipelines and that "you could walk all the way to the Columbia from there". He point back at the direction from which we had come and talked about the creek or tributary that went back to the body of water. The body of water I found out was Lake LaCames. The body of water you claimed Duane had turned me around and that I was back on the Columbia even though I insisted I knew we were NOT on the Columbia. That body of water was Lake LaCames which I would not have found had it not have been for the Angel Udell...and this was after the camera crew had left. We have already covered this before. Why keep denying any knowledge of this? Anyone who has listened to me for yrs - knows this story has NEVER changed and I found it and you said it did NOT exist....since 1997 you have told me it did NOT exist and you refused to discuss it on the phone after I got back from my 2010 WA trip. WHY? It no longer looks the way it used to, but it was still there and there is NO WAY you could NOT have know since day one I was talking about the Lake LaCames area.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryThomas 0 #22299 March 5, 2011 Jo you make all these references to Duane Weber and connect the dots the only problem is there was more than one Duane weber. Now! all your stories are made up every one knows it. Why do you want to make more? Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryThomas 0 #22300 March 5, 2011 Power lines hell Jo that was your third story in 96 your second story was a fire tower on a hill with a bunch of antenas on it and what the hell ever happened to the old dodge red truck that duane was suposed to be picked up in after the jump but his acomplace got lost. Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
