DB Cooper

[georger 247]

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This particular case will NEVER be solved. Time was ripe between '71-75, but the poor FBI never showed its medal. Their "best" is still alive and to this day showcases his "intellect" in every interview he gives.

Fun it is to speculate, but unfortunately we'll never know who did it. We can very certainly deduce who did NOT do it and that's not difficult, there are just too many gold diggers out there with an agenda.

So while this forum is fun, I doubt we'll ever solve this case. I'd like to be proven wrong, but I'll take my Vegas odds and live with them.

Canopus, you have the odds on your side. I think we
all know that on some level.

Thanks...

[georger 247]

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No accents or slang terms were reported by the witnesses.

Then if this is literally true, Cooper came from the
same region as the witnesses (whoever they were
to be one unified linguistic group).

If this is true, then we now know something very definate about Mr. Cooper. He wasn't from Baa-Habbah. He wasnt an import. He was of the
same general social class as the witnesses. He was able to communicate with a younger generation than
himself without noticeable difficulty. And he had no apparent speech defects which would indicate physical
pathology.

[snowmman 3]

Yeah georger, maybe you're right. I always figured if Cooper lived, there would always be a backstory that we'd never hear about, like did a shrink ever tell him he was psychotic, and meanwhile Cooper is thinking. "hmm maybe I am,....what's real anyhow?".

If he's halfway intelligent, he might realize he could be. But if you're Cooper, how could you tell? One of those mysteries of life. Our problem is we can only see Cooper from the outside. Even if we put together a reasonable story, it probably won't be complete. I guess it doesn't need to be for solving this puzzle from the crime point of view, but at least should give us a little compassion for human frailties.

I'm guessing a lot of things that made up Cooper could be considered both strengths and weaknesses, depending on context. Probably got rewarded and punished at different times for exactly the same behaviors. I've read that psychopathic tendencies end up actually being rewarded in businesses at certain levels.

Which is why we need the good guys like Ckret, to help everyone stay in between the white lines!

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I dont think sky marshals had anything to do with
this. It was just Cooper feeling vulnerable and being
aggressive when he should have been keeping a very low profile not to attract attention. The hijacking was
barely 10 minutes old when this happened.

Maybe Ckret can shed some light on this.

Simons and his wife recounted this VERY CLEARLY
after the fact. (They could hardly stop talking about
it because they were upset). It shows Cooper's
aggressive side and his vulnerability in the face of
poor judgement at the very time he needed to be
focusing and mind his manners.

This is one of the 'little events' that helped form
Himmeslbach's appraisal of Cooper, trying to look
underneath to see the real Cooper.

[skyjack71 0]

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The big problem here, has been and will continue to be is lack of experience interacting with human motives as they deal with criminal intent. It seems most on here, when commenting on Cooper the person, are relying on what they have experienced in the movies on TV or how they (given what they have read and seen on tv) would pull it off. Reality is always a let down, the dream is always better.

Every time we catch them i am disappointed to find they just winged it. The same level of thought goes into the crime as the others that got caught on robbery one.

Sluggo, and anyone else, what real life experience do you have in working with criminals? How they operate, what motivates them..... How much is what you see in the movies and on TV influencing your opinions on Cooper?

We have experts here in several fields of study and your doing great work, but I think you are stifling yourself by overlaying unrealistic perceptions of criminal behavior generated by mass media. This, in fact, has become a real problem in criminal trials. Juries have a very unreal expectations that now have to be addressed in opening statements. Maybe the same thing has happened here.

CKRET DON'T BE SO SMUG - IF THE FBI HAD THE ANSWERS U WOULDN'T BE POSTING IN A PUBLIC FORUM.

IF THE FBI HAS ALL THE ANSWERS AND THE EXPERTISE THEY WOULD HAVE CAUGHT COOPER....

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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Its not that Portland was his plan but it just worked
out that way, just like sitting on the ground at SEA
for almost 2 hrs wasnt planned, then bailout with
rear door open immediately after liftoff didnt work
out, so he takes his next best option under poor
visibility after Scott levels and slows the plane
which is skyglow from Vancouver & Portland and
he bails. ... and money turns up at Tena Bar.

Galen Cook is behind the musing of facts and fiction. Sky glow from Vancouver and Portland at the time they thought Cooper jumped - you had better talk to the co-pilot and others - THAT is not true.

Such doings as putting a composite in a paper that has been modified - I did not see the the disclaimer so it must have been very discreet. The untrained eye nor someone who has not been into this would not see that the composite has been modified. Then the modified composite becomes accepted as the original.

Guys, you all are letting certain people manuvere you to exactly where they want you to go.

Ckret has given so much information that is not correct that this is getting ridiculous - the Co-pilot was Radeczek, the lights of Portland - duh - You can be guaranteed that if the crew said Portland that the search would NEVER have been in the areas that were searched.

Is anyone thinking out there or are you letting yourselves be led like sheep to the slaughter???

Theories are one thing but when therories and supposition are suddenly accepted to be truths -- the facts are so scrambled up that no one wants to try to state the truths anymore. This is becoming a farce.

If you guys think I was far-out, let me tell you that some of what I am reading here that has transpired in the last few days is not just far-out, but has become fiction. Which is exactly what someone is wanting.

A lot of psychology is being applied by someone who knows exactly how to turn a court case in his behalf and he is working you just like a court room.

He has a Mole in this site - but that is my opinion - and that mole is doing his job.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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In repsonse to Cooper guessing we could figure out that Bump=jump, so he planted money to throw us off, couldn't happen. We were the first (or reported first) to do the tests lauching cargo out of a 727 with the airstairs in an unlocked position.

Ckret there you go again - you don't know that money was "Planted" .

How convenient that the money is "planted" in the same time frame Duane and I were in WA. and Galens' story about the prints occurs in the same time frame as Duane's dream about his fear of leaving his prints on the Plane.

This is all just too convenient in the story that Cook is telling and you are just setting yourself up.
Think about some of the things that you are saying and get the details correct - you are making too many judgements and not being open minded.

I was the one who told about Duane dumping a sack in the Columbia long before I had any knowledge of details regarding the money or the technical details on the money. I told the FBI this in 1996 before I ever talked to anyone ---it was much later that I talked to Himmelsbach and talked to the Agent Hope. I have the telephone bill to the FBI to prove it. May 24 1996.

No one else ever mentioned any fear of leaving prints on the plane until I told about Duane's dream of 1977 and this was told to the FBI at the same time I told them everything else...May 24, 1996.

Strange set of co-incidences in Cook's tale and what one little old woman with no knowledge of the hijacking for the acception of a book she only got 1/3 of the way thru before she was on the phone to the FBI. This book was based on some facts and mostly fiction.

I did not see or read any other accounting or books until Himmelsbach sent me his book at a later date and what little I could find at the University and local library looking for more information...note after my phone calls to the FBI on that frantic night - a night that forever changed my life.

Perhaps you and others are not aware of the sequences of my discovery and the sketchy information I had available to me.

Himmelsbach can vouch for what I have just said - every word of it.

I get 1/3 way thru a book of fiction and I am calling the FBI with all of the details that I just mentioned. Now someone tell me that I made one word up or that Cook is not feeding off of everything I have ever said.

Ckret you owe it to the public to be accurate in what you report here or any place else....by the way I have not received the reports I requested in a lengthy email.

Perhaps CKRET you do not know how I happened to call the FBI and have you reviewed or listened to the tapes I am sure they made on that night. I found Himmelsbach several wks later and he was sent some materials and my accounting of what hap[pened. He was not an FBI agent but the FBI wasn't listenting to me - I was just some crazy old lady.

Now some attorney and new agent has taken the things this crazy old lady TOLD THE FBI ON MAY 24 1996 and using it to the fullest.

Now that you guy have heard most of the story - do you not see why I get upset?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[quade 4]

Since you don't like this thread very much, I'm going to give you the opportunity to just stop reading it for awhile.

If you continue to be abusive, well, that's another matter altogether.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Albert18 0]

"Now that you guy have heard most of the story - do you not see why I get upset?"

Yes Jo, I understand why you get upset. It tells me Duane Weber being Cooper is just a story. You are trying to defend and protect the story.

If you knew for a fact Duane was Cooper then Cook or anybody else couldn't be a threat to you. The fact they are tells me a lot.

[Ckret 0]

Quade,

Come on, you like just a little don't you? Your the "big toe," guide it, shape it, mold it, make it live and breathe (I got it right this time Canopus).

Edit: never mind, I read your post faster than my brain could keep up.

[Ckret 0]

Scott was the Captain
Anderson the second officer
Rataczak the third officer

The Simons told the agents the night of the hijacking that they never saw Cooper nor did they realize the flight had been hijacked.

[Ckret 0]

I have not found anything about the found shoe, I'll have to go down to the basement and dig around. It's my turn to feed the aliens anyway.

[Mr.Nuke 0]

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Scott was the Captain
Anderson the second officer
Rataczak the third officer

Now you are just trying to be confusing . The normal method of ordering a three member crew would be 1) Captain 2) First Officer (right seat pilot) 3) Second Officer (Flight Engineer).

This is from the Minneapolis Tribune's coverage of the event.

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"Scott, First Officer William Rataczak, 3407 Selkirk Dr., Burnsville, and Second Officer Harold E. Anderson, Excelsior, remained in the cockpit throughout the hijacking. They never saw the hijacker."

http://ww3.startribune.com/blogs/oldnews/archives/188

I don't know why your files would list Rataczak as "third" officer, but if you agree that Anderson is second officer (flight engineer), that puts Ratazak in the First Officer's seat.

[Ckret 0]

When Rataczak was interviewed he told the agents he was the third officer, when Anderson was interviewed he identified himself as the second officer, Scott identified himself as the Captain.

[Guru312 0]

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It's my turn to feed the aliens anyway.

I hope to hell that when "the Feds" bang on my door...not they have any reason, of course!!...that they have half your sense of humor.

Thanks so much for putting up with us.

And I mean that sincerely.

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[Mr.Nuke 0]

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When Rataczak was interviewed he told the agents he was the third officer, when Anderson was interviewed he identified himself as the second officer, Scott identified himself as the Captain.

That is strange, because by the press conference he was identifying himself has F/O. You can call him first or third, but I don't think it makes a difference he was sitting next to Scott. What do you have on who was actually flying the plane? The traditional account is that Rataczak was doing the flying...

[georger 247]

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Scott was the Captain
Anderson the second officer
Rataczak the third officer

The Simons told the agents the night of the hijacking that they never saw Cooper nor did they realize the flight had been hijacked.

You have got to be kidding.! You must think I am
making this up.

Let me see what I can find. There is something wrong
here. (Its Monday@!)

[Ckret 0]

Well Nukester, mystery solved, I found in some of Schaffner's handwritten notes where she refered to Rataczak as the co-pilot and Anderson as the second officer.

This calls for a party of some sorts, I think this is the first issue in the DB Cooper case that has been resolved. I love progress, at this rate we might.....

[georger 247]

The Simons told the agents the night of the hijacking that they never saw Cooper nor did they realize the flight had been hijacked.

[Orange1 0]

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Theories are one thing but when therories and supposition are suddenly accepted to be truths -- the facts are so scrambled up that no one wants to try to state the truths anymore. This is becoming a farce.

If you guys think I was far-out, let me tell you that some of what I am reading here that has transpired in the last few days is not just far-out, but has become fiction.

Yes, you're right. It would be far better to stick to the facts, like connecting the DB Cooper case to the MLK assassination, and the Bay of Pigs, and ....

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[quade 4]

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The Simons told the agents the night of the hijacking that they never saw Cooper nor did they realize the flight had been hijacked.

Do you find that occasionally witnesses give one account immediately after an event and another one, one that fits more widely known facts, during later interviews? Perhaps so different that the two accounts even contradict themselves? Perhaps so different that they put the witness in a better light in the second account; make the witness more "perceptive" or even omniscient, knowing things that they could not have possibly known during the actual event?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[bigway 4]

50 pages since i last opened this thread.

Just quickly, can anyone tell me if that chute that was found ever had a body found near it or once it was announced not to be DBCoppers canopy if they ever found out whos canopy it was?

Also, have you guys solved the case yet?


One more- did the FBI ever do a news report letting the world know it was not DB coppers rig after they told the world how excited they were cause they thought it was?

Thanks.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[Ckret 0]

I'll do this real quick "Big Guy"

No there wasn't

No we haven't

Yes we did

[bigway 4]

Bigway. It means alot of people in freefall at once.


I usually get called Big-gay so thank you for not calling me that as i imagine you wanted to but being a Fed you know who i am and you do not want to jeopordise any ongoing investigations that could end up having the case thrown out of court if you were to abuse me on the internet.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[377 22]

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The Simons told the agents the night of the hijacking that they never saw Cooper nor did they realize the flight had been hijacked.

Do you find that occasionally witnesses give one account immediately after an event and another one, one that fits more widely known facts, during later interviews? Perhaps so different that the two accounts even contradict themselves? Perhaps so different that they put the witness in a better light in the second account; make the witness more "perceptive" or even omniscient, knowing things that they could not have possibly known during the actual event?

Occasionally? Try almost always. Witnesses in high profile criminal cases do this almost every time. Initially they can barely remember any details. By the time trial comes up they have photographic memories which incoprporate all sorts of things that were printed in the news about the crime. They are often incapable of dividing what they witnessed from what they learned later.

When simulations were done in university controlled psychological experiments witnesses had very poor memories of what really happened. In a simulated robbery, a stick became a pistol, the meanest looking guy in a photo lineup was identified even though he was not the "robber" etc etc.

Most financial institutions, ATMs, liquor stores, etc have video cameras to catch crooks. Videos made it a lot tougher for defense lawyers to argue that their client has been misidentified.

I had one guy who insisted til the very end that the spitting image of him robbing a convenience store in an exceptionally clear video was some other guy. Hope springs eternal.

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Ckret 0]

Bigway,

U Aussies crack me up, just kidding, I know your a fruit. "Now thats funny, I don't care who you are."