377 22
Recommended Posts
Robert99 50
Your request was probably denied because the manufacturer thought you would be better off with a harness you didn't have to be knowledgeable about to wear.
Airtwardo, Thanks for the "compliment".
Actually, I was talking to the owner and president of the company in question and he has plenty of parachute jumping and manufacturing experience. We discussed all the components of the specific parachute that I was interested in him working up for me. When we got to the hardware he told me up front what leg and chest fasteners he would recommend and the ones that he would not permit on his parachutes. End of fastener hardware discussion.
The fasteners he insisted on are still in use today on military equipment. With the introduction of the integrated torso harnesses, the Navy's version of quick fasteners went out the window and the Navy equipment now also uses Capewell fasteners as does the equipment used by other services.
If you have any experience jumping with ex-military chest reserves, you are well aware that the probability of one of the reserve's fasteners coming un-fastened is quite high in even a routine jump where the reserve is not deployed.
Apparently, the fastener technology had improved enough by the time I was talking to the manufacturer so that he had a very high degree of confidence in the new fasteners and non in the older "quick release" types.
Robert Nicholson
377 22
If you have any experience jumping with ex-military chest reserves, you are well aware that the probability of one of the reserve's fasteners coming un-fastened is quite high in even a routine jump where the reserve is not deployed.
I made lots of jumps with surplus belly reserves and wasn't aware of this potentially fatal problem. Which reserve fastener came loose and how?
Lots of jumpers would unhook one of the chest fasteners and droop the reserve to get a better view of the target.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Robert99 50
If you have any experience jumping with ex-military chest reserves, you are well aware that the probability of one of the reserve's fasteners coming un-fastened is quite high in even a routine jump where the reserve is not deployed.
I made lots of jumps with surplus belly reserves and wasn't aware of this potentially fatal problem. Which reserve fastener came loose and how?
Lots of jumpers would unhook one of the chest fasteners and droop the reserve to get a better view of the target.
377
377, In my limited parachuting experience, everyone I was personally acquainted with used a 24-foot ex-military reserve that had two fasteners that connected to D rings on the harness. In addition, we always used tie down straps to keep the reserve from flapping around.
These straps went through some loops on the reserve container (I think the loops were actually for hand holds while putting on the reserve) and then through the lower part of the main harness in some manner to provide a secure means to prevent the reserve from jumping around.
Nevertheless, all of us (and that includes me) had numerous experiences of one of the fasteners that was connected to a D ring coming unfastened during a jump.
One fellow, an experienced jumper and rigger, decided he wanted to come down on his reserve to see what it was like. So when time came to pull, he pulled the reserve ripcord instead of the main chute ripcord.
As fate would have it, one of his reserve fasteners had come undone. However, there is a heavy duty strap connection in the reserve container between the two fasteners. So he proved in actual practice, that only one reserve fastener had to stay fastened for a safe descent. In any event, he was unable to fasten the other one during his descent.
Robert Nicholson
377 22
Nevertheless, all of us (and that includes me) had numerous experiences of one of the fasteners that was connected to a D ring coming unfastened during a jump.
YIKES!!!!
I never once experienced this in well over 100 jumps with reserves of that type. When I had to do a cutaway of a C9 main my belly reserve (26 ft Navy conical in an Army container) worked just fine. My D ring connectors had a very robust spring loaded clip. Hard to see how it would become disconnected accidentally, but I know you had it happen.
If they were so unsafe why did the Army keep using them for decades? Usually if parachute gear was found to be unreliable, newer improved gear replaced it. Witness the evolution of Rocket Jet types to better and better canopy releases culminating in the latest Capewell types. The military doesn't seem complacent about parachute gear safety. They move slowly but they do move.
Riggers, your opinion? I am not an expert on attachment hardware.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
georger 247
How old is Duane in his "paperlegs" photos?
Wasn't Cooper middle age, 40s-50?
Looks pretty top heavy to me.
We know he had a "bad knee". Walked with a limp.
Bad hip by middle age?
Olympian?
Does he fit the witness physical profile NOW?
Forget PKD - focus on the legs!
Jo says: Duane said he knew Paperlegs. Was he
referring to himself? Or was it all you - in reference
to the Duane (and you just didnt bother to tell
anyone or post any photos of Duane which would
highlite the obvious problem) ?
"Had a bad knee. Walked with a limp (only when
tired, Jo says). I can sure as hell see why !!!!!
Any orthopedic surgeon would raise an eyebrow at
this.
Nobody reported this kind if trait for DB Cooper.
Wasn't Cooper middle age, 40s-50?
Looks pretty top heavy to me.
We know he had a "bad knee". Walked with a limp.
Bad hip by middle age?
Olympian?
Does he fit the witness physical profile NOW?
Forget PKD - focus on the legs!
Jo says: Duane said he knew Paperlegs. Was he
referring to himself? Or was it all you - in reference
to the Duane (and you just didnt bother to tell
anyone or post any photos of Duane which would
highlite the obvious problem) ?
"Had a bad knee. Walked with a limp (only when
tired, Jo says). I can sure as hell see why !!!!!
Any orthopedic surgeon would raise an eyebrow at
this.
Nobody reported this kind if trait for DB Cooper.
Robert99 50
Nevertheless, all of us (and that includes me) had numerous experiences of one of the fasteners that was connected to a D ring coming unfastened during a jump.
YIKES!!!!
I never once experienced this in well over 100 jumps with reserves of that type. When I had to do a cutaway of a C9 main my belly reserve (26 ft Navy conical in an Army container) worked just fine. My D ring connectors had a very robust spring loaded clip. Hard to see how it would become disconnected accidentally, but I know you had it happen.
If they were so unsafe why did the Army keep using them for decades? Usually if parachute gear was found to be unreliable, newer improved gear replaced it. Witness the evolution of Rocket Jet types to better and better canopy releases culminating in the latest Capewell types. The military doesn't seem complacent about parachute gear safety. They move slowly but they do move.
Riggers, your opinion? I am not an expert on attachment hardware.
377
377, We were using WW2 surplus paratrooper reserves (where the jumper went out on a static line jump while clutching the reserve to his chest).
In retrospect, the reserve fasteners did seem to have some differences with the fasteners that the manufacturer that I mentioned earlier insisted that I use.
The newer hardware, which is probably the same thing that is still being used, seems to be very slightly larger, have a stronger spring as you mentioned, and there may be some differences in the "hook" part of the fastener and the tip of the gismo that the spring is attached to.
I agree with you that the military services are very careful about their emergency equipment, as well as the equipment used by the standard paratroopers and the special forces types.
The emergency military parachute equipment improved as fast as the speed of jet aircraft did following WW2.
Robert Nicholson
Your request was probably denied because the manufacturer thought you would be better off with a harness you didn't have to be knowledgeable about to wear.
Airtwardo, Thanks for the "compliment".
Actually, I was talking to the owner and president of the company in question and he has plenty of parachute jumping and manufacturing experience. We discussed all the components of the specific parachute that I was interested in him working up for me. When we got to the hardware he told me up front what leg and chest fasteners he would recommend and the ones that he would not permit on his parachutes. End of fastener hardware discussion.
The fasteners he insisted on are still in use today on military equipment. With the introduction of the integrated torso harnesses, the Navy's version of quick fasteners went out the window and the Navy equipment now also uses Capewell fasteners as does the equipment used by other services.
If you have any experience jumping with ex-military chest reserves, you are well aware that the probability of one of the reserve's fasteners coming un-fastened is quite high in even a routine jump where the reserve is not deployed.
Apparently, the fastener technology had improved enough by the time I was talking to the manufacturer so that he had a very high degree of confidence in the new fasteners and non in the older "quick release" types.
Robert Nicholson
No offence intended, but there is validity to what I said, I'd bet he had confidence in the 'newer' hardware being simpler to operate.
Again, QR hardware takes some experience to understand and some training to maintain...the spring-ball & socket lock can't be abused and must be kept clean and 'oiled' to operate...more work than the 'average' user might be interested in without having a specific need.
Strong Ent. manufactures my gear, there isn't anyone out there that has been doing it longer...period.
Ted knows me and my requirements, has no problem installing QR hardware on my gear.
As far as the reserve snaps, what you are probably referring to is the butterfly snaps that had large butterfly like wings on the spring lever locks...the story goes that they could come unsnapped if the reserve wasn't down tight and was moving around....because of the extra leverage on the lever part of the snap. They actually could safely be used in reverse to the manner other snaps were, in other words the snap went to the D under instead of over, and then fewer problems regarding unsnapping.
I've seen those kinds of reserves 30 some years ago, never used one but knew people that did.
I do however have LOTS of jumps using the more 'modern' B-12 type reserve snap on a front mounted container.
200+ with reserves on front and another 7-800 with flags, banners or pyro in a similar type container mounted on front of contemporary gear that has integral D rings and side strap connector hardware...exactly like military gear.
Never once had a snap come undone, so deferring to that real world experience, I would have to say I'm NOT well aware of military type hardware coming undone.
I posted some links to some recent videos of my team jumping an airshow...there are 12 guys using front mounted containers patterned after the reserve containers we're discussing...we've been in the airshow business 30 years and have never had a problem.
Not saying it couldn't possibly happen, but statements that it did/does often, are based more on fiction than fact.
Who was the manufacturer you were dealing with, I know most of them.
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
Georger Stated:
Until a few days ago (to my knowledge) Jo Weber
had never posted a full head-to-toe photo of Duane Weber, and none is available at Google
except for one small prison photo of Duane which does not show his shoes. Finally Jo posted a full photo and something caught several people's
attention -
Jo has always said Duane had a bad knee injured, he said, in an airplane accident, or from bailing out.
Jo replies:
I have never said it was a "bad" knee injury - I have never described it. It appeared to be different (I will describe this at a later date) and he did NOT complain about it. When I asked him about his knee was when I was taking him to the Hospital when I was putting his long John's and pants on him.
I asked him about the knee - commenting that he had never told me how he "messed" it up. His statement at that time was "I got it Jumping out of a plane". My comment back to him was "You jump out of a plane - give me a break!"
[Blue]He would again at the hospital 2 wks later try to tell me about jumping out of plane. The Dr had just told me he would expire in about 5 days and I was distraught and did NOT listen to him or understand what he was talking about. He would live for 11 days after that conversation - the Conversation in which he got MAD and said "Oh, F--- let it die with me".
===============
Georger Stated:
Jo has always told us
Duane was in perfect health and fit and atheletic. But, the photo Jo posted several days ago is strange in several respects. The photo appears to show Duane's 'bad knee', or something else.
Jo Asks:
What photo are you talking about? Also I have never stated he was in "perfect" health. He was taking high blood pressure medication when I met him.
====================
Georger States:
Photo No.1 is a prison photo of Duane at Canon City. Note his left leg lagging slightly behind the right in the side view and his slightly bent posture. In his frontal view note how Duane's right leg appears straight but there is slack in his left leg.
Jo Replies:
I saw nothing unusual in that prison photo and by the way the original DOES show his shoes. In fact I have commented on how ragged the footwear was they released him in and they were unusual footwear.
Georger States:
Now look at Photos No.2 titled Paperlegs. I chose the title Paperlegs because that is the word Jo used for one of Duane's supposed unamed (unfindable)
friends.
Jo Retorts:
You know that I am referring to Paperlegs Petersen!
Georger states:
Note Duane's posture and of the position of his left leg in both photos at different ages. Duane's
posture and his leg position do not look normal in these photos. Some hip or knee issue looks
possible.
Jo States:
I have mentioned before that Duane's picture always gave the impression of backward knee syndrome. Professor or Dr. Georger, I think you know exactly what that is and it in no way hindered his activities.
==================
Georger States:
Not one witness in the Cooper case, who saw Cooper
at the airport, at the ticket counter, standing in line,
walking on to the airplane, or in the airplane seated or standing or moving around - reported anything out of the ordinary in the person's posture, gate, or
mobility. Not one thing. And Cooper was middle
aged.
Jo States:
I have not said that Duane walked with a gate or a limp. If he did it was NOT visible to me. He did walk with a limp and a cane during his last yrs because of the renal failure. He fell and broke his leg during the later part of his life - I have the hospital report if you care to read it. This was about 1 yr before he died. As you are well aware the kidney treatment affects the bones - causing their bones to become very brittle. The natural aging process also contributes to this, also.
I have mentioned this broken leg (approx 1994) before because he was recouperating from that incident when I found the TICKET in the box of 1990 tax files I was cleaning out over his objections and he said he would do it later.
I dumped the box on the bed and started to sort. You know the rest of story and if not - it is in this thread someplace.
I made this post without viewing the photos you attached, but will do so later and make a comment about these photos.
Until a few days ago (to my knowledge) Jo Weber
had never posted a full head-to-toe photo of Duane Weber, and none is available at Google
except for one small prison photo of Duane which does not show his shoes. Finally Jo posted a full photo and something caught several people's
attention -
Jo has always said Duane had a bad knee injured, he said, in an airplane accident, or from bailing out.
Jo replies:
I have never said it was a "bad" knee injury - I have never described it. It appeared to be different (I will describe this at a later date) and he did NOT complain about it. When I asked him about his knee was when I was taking him to the Hospital when I was putting his long John's and pants on him.
I asked him about the knee - commenting that he had never told me how he "messed" it up. His statement at that time was "I got it Jumping out of a plane". My comment back to him was "You jump out of a plane - give me a break!"
[Blue]He would again at the hospital 2 wks later try to tell me about jumping out of plane. The Dr had just told me he would expire in about 5 days and I was distraught and did NOT listen to him or understand what he was talking about. He would live for 11 days after that conversation - the Conversation in which he got MAD and said "Oh, F--- let it die with me".
===============
Georger Stated:
Jo has always told us
Duane was in perfect health and fit and atheletic. But, the photo Jo posted several days ago is strange in several respects. The photo appears to show Duane's 'bad knee', or something else.
Jo Asks:
What photo are you talking about? Also I have never stated he was in "perfect" health. He was taking high blood pressure medication when I met him.
====================
Georger States:
Photo No.1 is a prison photo of Duane at Canon City. Note his left leg lagging slightly behind the right in the side view and his slightly bent posture. In his frontal view note how Duane's right leg appears straight but there is slack in his left leg.
Jo Replies:
I saw nothing unusual in that prison photo and by the way the original DOES show his shoes. In fact I have commented on how ragged the footwear was they released him in and they were unusual footwear.
Georger States:
Now look at Photos No.2 titled Paperlegs. I chose the title Paperlegs because that is the word Jo used for one of Duane's supposed unamed (unfindable)
friends.
Jo Retorts:
You know that I am referring to Paperlegs Petersen!
Georger states:
Note Duane's posture and of the position of his left leg in both photos at different ages. Duane's
posture and his leg position do not look normal in these photos. Some hip or knee issue looks
possible.
Jo States:
I have mentioned before that Duane's picture always gave the impression of backward knee syndrome. Professor or Dr. Georger, I think you know exactly what that is and it in no way hindered his activities.
==================
Georger States:
Not one witness in the Cooper case, who saw Cooper
at the airport, at the ticket counter, standing in line,
walking on to the airplane, or in the airplane seated or standing or moving around - reported anything out of the ordinary in the person's posture, gate, or
mobility. Not one thing. And Cooper was middle
aged.
Jo States:
I have not said that Duane walked with a gate or a limp. If he did it was NOT visible to me. He did walk with a limp and a cane during his last yrs because of the renal failure. He fell and broke his leg during the later part of his life - I have the hospital report if you care to read it. This was about 1 yr before he died. As you are well aware the kidney treatment affects the bones - causing their bones to become very brittle. The natural aging process also contributes to this, also.
I have mentioned this broken leg (approx 1994) before because he was recouperating from that incident when I found the TICKET in the box of 1990 tax files I was cleaning out over his objections and he said he would do it later.
I dumped the box on the bed and started to sort. You know the rest of story and if not - it is in this thread someplace.
I made this post without viewing the photos you attached, but will do so later and make a comment about these photos.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
How old is Duane in his "paperlegs" photos?
Wasn't Cooper middle age, 40s-50?
Looks pretty top heavy to me.
We know he had a "bad knee". Walked with a limp.
Bad hip by middle age?
Olympian?
Does he fit the witness physical profile NOW?
Forget PKD - focus on the legs!
Jo says: Duane said he knew Paperlegs. Was he
referring to himself? Or was it all you - in reference
to the Duane (and you just didnt bother to tell
anyone or post any photos of Duane which would
highlite the obvious problem) ?
"Had a bad knee. Walked with a limp (only when
tired, Jo says). I can sure as hell see why !!!!!
Any orthopedic surgeon would raise an eyebrow at
this.
Nobody reported this kind if trait for DB Cooper.
My daughter who live with us for several yrs - has stated she was unaware of Duane having a limp or there being anything unusal about his gate. Duane did NOT have a bad hip. Hell, I have had one hip lower than the other all of my life and it never gave me any trouble - just meant I had to hem one pant leg shorter than the other. Many people have this problem, but it did NOT keep them out of the service in the 40's.
The slight backward knee as I have found it was called back in the day - would NOT have prevented Duane from doing anything anyone else could. I have never tried to hide this - and I have discussed it. Duane was NOT top heavy in 1971 - not the bathing suit photo. I know that photo was taken during Duane's time with one of his wives - prior to 1971 and after 1968. REMEMBER THIS - the FBI never allowed me to see Weber's intake or outtake photos from Jefferson. WONDER WHY? WHAT did THE FBI AND OTHERS HAVE TO HIDE ABOUT WEBER'S STAY AT JEFFERSON?
I do NOT remember the post the swim suit photo appeared in - so would someone take me to the post it was in. I have a reason to know. I do not remember posting that photo.
You know exactly what Paperlegs refers to and it had NOTHING to do with Duane - but HE was Richard Petersen and he was incharge of the communication for "In Plane Site" and the program in Co. from 1962 until 1972. Where were you during all of these discussions?
Was Paperlegs one of your selective ignores? WHY? You yourself are very skilled in communications! OR did that elude you also?
If you spent more time on looking into Duane's past in 1996 when I contacted the FBI you wouldn't need to keep trying to discredit me. All the things you say and do makes one wonder - WHO is Georger? Why is he so BENT on DISMISSING Weber?
Why did my Salt Lake photo incite you so badly? He would be in his early to mid 70's today, if I gaged the age correctly. He appeared to be closer to my age and not as old as Duane.
Better Watch the Billboards?
Check out the Salt Lake Photo below.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Robert99 50
Airtwardo, Manly Butler was the individual I talked to. This was probably in the early 1980s and the Butler Parachute Company was located at California City, CA. It has since moved to some place in Virginia.
Butler did not, to my knowledge, make sports parachutes in the 1980s and apparently still doesn't. They have made emergency parachutes for specific individuals, including me, that I am aware of.
They appear to have some government contracts for parachutes with military applications and these may, or may not, include emergency pilot parachutes.
In any event, I was highly pleased with the parachute they made for me, and so was my rigger.
On the matter of this ex-military reserve, I can't remember for sure if it had butterfly type fasteners. To many decades have gone by for me to remember all the details accurately, but you may be right on that point.
On the quick release fasteners on my NB-6, they were installed with the opening facing the wearer's body which is the opposite of the installation shown in your photograph. While I have never jumped an NB-6, I don't remember any problems with the fasteners coming open during any ground, flight, or just squirming around situation in very cramped cockpits.
Robert Nicholson
Butler did not, to my knowledge, make sports parachutes in the 1980s and apparently still doesn't. They have made emergency parachutes for specific individuals, including me, that I am aware of.
They appear to have some government contracts for parachutes with military applications and these may, or may not, include emergency pilot parachutes.
In any event, I was highly pleased with the parachute they made for me, and so was my rigger.
On the matter of this ex-military reserve, I can't remember for sure if it had butterfly type fasteners. To many decades have gone by for me to remember all the details accurately, but you may be right on that point.
On the quick release fasteners on my NB-6, they were installed with the opening facing the wearer's body which is the opposite of the installation shown in your photograph. While I have never jumped an NB-6, I don't remember any problems with the fasteners coming open during any ground, flight, or just squirming around situation in very cramped cockpits.
Robert Nicholson
Farflung 0
I’m no expert on textiles or the decomposition rate of organic materials in an anaerobic environment; especially since they found that ‘Bog Man’ (over 2,000 years old) still wearing his clothes and the noose he was hanged with.
That Amboy parachute did not appear to be pristine or laden with any sort of hardware. You can see this fabric is quite degraded (my estimate for purposes of exhibition only; please no wagering).
http://www.komonews.com/news/17000841.html
Check the video at (1:20-1:30) and (1:38-1:48). Then decide for yourself.
That Amboy parachute did not appear to be pristine or laden with any sort of hardware. You can see this fabric is quite degraded (my estimate for purposes of exhibition only; please no wagering).
http://www.komonews.com/news/17000841.html
Check the video at (1:20-1:30) and (1:38-1:48). Then decide for yourself.
Airtwardo, what are your thoughts about the Amboy chute? Would Cossey use a 1946 twill canopy in a bailout rig in 1971? I don't think so but I'd value your opinion.
Hard tellin' what people will do...
In the late 70's I has a surplus twill on the ceiling of my apartment as decoration....I certainly wouldn't have jumped it!
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
georger 247
I’m no expert on textiles or the decomposition rate of organic materials in an anaerobic environment; especially since they found that ‘Bog Man’ (over 2,000 years old) still wearing his clothes and the noose he was hanged with.
That Amboy parachute did not appear to be pristine or laden with any sort of hardware. You can see this fabric is quite degraded (my estimate for purposes of exhibition only; please no wagering).
.
Biological Properties
Silk is resistant to attack by mildew, bacteria and
fungi; however, rot-producing bacteria may attack
silk fibres. Silk is fairly resistant to moths but silk
does attract carpet beetles.
Sunlight
Sunlight accelerates silk decomposition, which is
more susceptible to ultraviolet damage than wool.
Silk fabrics have been weighted (treated) to improve
durability can last a very long time.
(you heard it first here!)
http://218.189.210.187/ApparelKey/Document/Cate2
/2.4/silk_properties.htm
I do NOT recall posting that picture in the thread. I have tried to do a search but I guess the thread is so large it can't be done. I then went page by page because IF I posted that pic it would have been in the last yr.
Would someone direct me to the post I Attached the Beach pic to.
I have tried and tried to figure this out...so please someone who has more knowledge of how to search the thread than I do - find it. This IS very very important.
Would someone direct me to the post I Attached the Beach pic to.
I have tried and tried to figure this out...so please someone who has more knowledge of how to search the thread than I do - find it. This IS very very important.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
georger 247
I do NOT recall posting that picture in the thread. I have tried to do a search but I guess the thread is so large it can't be done. I then went page by page because IF I posted that pic it would have been in the last yr.
Would someone direct me to the post I Attached the Beach pic to.
I have tried and tried to figure this out...so please someone who has more knowledge of how to search the thread than I do - find it. This IS very very important.
Dont ever say I havent done you a favour.
You posted the pic on Aug 09 2010 in your post
#18122 below, at:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?
post=3921740;#3921740
------------------------------------------------------
skyjack71
Aug 9, 2010, 12:12 PM
Post #18122 of 23743 (1083 views)
Registered: Nov 12, 2006
Posts: 3050
Weber / Christiansen HA HA HA [In reply to] Quote | Reply
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In Reply To
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking at the picture Jo linked up back there,
('Christiansen1.jpg') my first thought was The Hair.
Duane has thick and wavy hair in the picture. I
understand this picture is not from 1971, and Duane
is older in the picture. Nevertheless, his appearance,
and especially that thick hair, is absolutely nothing
like the FBI description. His resemblance to the FBI
sketch is minimal at best.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DEAR SIR:
DID YOU spent 2 hours talking to the artist who did
the composites?
Well, prior to 2000 an investigative reporter on my
behalf did just this with Rose who did the
composites. You have NOT talked to this artist and
this man is the closest anyone will ever get to
hearing the description given by the witnesses
(things the FBI has not revealed).
As I said before you need to read this thread and
the closed thread!
Let me explain that there are things the FBI did NOT
tell the public...about the appearance of Cooper.
1. Note the old unused and undisclosed (until this
forum)- Rose composites.
2. Note the artist is trying to portray "xxxxxxx", but
was unsuccessful in doing so.
3. None of the composites where in agreement with
ALL of the witnesses.
4. I have explained the slanting forehead till I am
tired of doing so. Look at what the artist is trying to
show. If necessary take the composite and blow it
up to letter size ----DO it!. Do it with all of the
composites!. A forensic artist (who I consulted - one
known nationally) and artist in general pointed these
things out to me.
5. The artist tried to depict the slanted forehead and
the optical illusions this creates for the
observor....Same height, standing over the subject
or shorter than the subject. Most of the contact with
the subject was by stewardess - shorter than Cooper
and who observed him sitting while they were
standing.
6. Try to understand how one would depict this type
of forehead.
7. Back in the 70's creams such as vaseline and Byrll
cream were used to slick down the hair and they did
a real good job. When this is applied to the curly
hair it makes the hair appear much thinner. I
personally have very curly hair and live in a humid
climate. Dyed hair with the Clairol products of the
70's made the hair look shiny and also made it
straighter (my own personal experience - when I first
started graying).
8. When I started this investigation in 1996 - the ex-
wife was STILL alive and told me she dyed his hair in
the attached photo which SHE sent to me. The photo
came right out of her own album (it is an orginal)
and the date was written on the back.
9. At that same time she provided me with another
photo taken around the same time - it was the
glasses that Cooper wore...(they have been
discussed in this thread and we did determine they
were a the thing of the early 70's) and the kind that
Cooper wore.
10. The forum has seen these photos,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright©2009 by Jo Weber
(This post was edited by skyjack71 on Aug 9, 2010,
12:43 PM)
Attachments:
CooperMouth.jpg (30.5 KB)
Cooper more.JPG (26.7 KB)
Canon City 1960.JPG (6.50 KB)
Close-up 71.JPG (18.0 KB)
Ship.JPG (90.2 KB)
Duane Bch.jpg (45.6 KB)
Farflung 0
Apparently there is some sort of Eco-friendly demand for clothing made from natural fibers.
So I’m reading about this ‘Recycled Party Dress’ because it is no threat to my obvious masculinity and discover it’s made of silk. Not just any pedestrian silk but from parachute material from the 50’s and they…. look….. faaaab-uuu-lousssss.
Well who knew that organic fabric could last over 50 years to be dyed and crafted into that perfect wardrobe item for an afternoon sipping mint juleps or attending a funky retro party? Hey watch out for the fondue, that may leave a color fast, stain that outlasts memories of your silky debut. Just station yourself near the vegetable buffet where there is little that could cause damage to that gown while the warm hues of the couscous platter highlights your hair while supplying a complimentary visual effect of being slimming.
So I’m reading about this ‘Recycled Party Dress’ because it is no threat to my obvious masculinity and discover it’s made of silk. Not just any pedestrian silk but from parachute material from the 50’s and they…. look….. faaaab-uuu-lousssss.
Well who knew that organic fabric could last over 50 years to be dyed and crafted into that perfect wardrobe item for an afternoon sipping mint juleps or attending a funky retro party? Hey watch out for the fondue, that may leave a color fast, stain that outlasts memories of your silky debut. Just station yourself near the vegetable buffet where there is little that could cause damage to that gown while the warm hues of the couscous platter highlights your hair while supplying a complimentary visual effect of being slimming.
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Apparently there is some sort of Eco-friendly demand for clothing made from natural fibers.
So I’m reading about this ‘Recycled Party Dress’ because it is no threat to my obvious masculinity and discover it’s made of silk. Not just any pedestrian silk but from parachute material from the 50’s and they…. look….. faaaab-uuu-lousssss.
Well who knew that organic fabric could last over 50 years to be dyed and crafted into that perfect wardrobe item for an afternoon sipping mint juleps or attending a funky retro party?
I have some "eco socks" that claim to be made from bamboo fiber Farflung. Do I gert some Green points?
Orange's slogan about skydiving (wasting fossil fuels just for fun) captures the general drift of the sport. I don't think there will be a big demand for bamboo parachutes, but I've been wrong before.
There is now serious attention being paid to harversting the power of the jetstream to generate electrical power. Kites, balloons etc are being proposed as lifting vehicles for the stratosphere turbines.
Who will be the first BASE jumper to climb a turbine tether to 20,000 ft for a free jump? Don't laugh, if it's there and climbable, it will be jumped.
Blevins, can you show me where the FBI claimed the Amboy chute might have been used by a military pilot in 1945? That's literally impossible as the canopy was manufactured in 1946.
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2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Apparently there is some sort of Eco-friendly demand for clothing made from natural fibers.
So I’m reading about this ‘Recycled Party Dress’ because it is no threat to my obvious masculinity and discover it’s made of silk. Not just any pedestrian silk but from parachute material from the 50’s and they…. look….. faaaab-uuu-lousssss.
Well who knew that organic fabric could last over 50 years to be dyed and crafted into that perfect wardrobe item for an afternoon sipping mint juleps or attending a funky retro party? Hey watch out for the fondue, that may leave a color fast, stain that outlasts memories of your silky debut. Just station yourself near the vegetable buffet where there is little that could cause damage to that gown while the warm hues of the couscous platter highlights your hair while supplying a complimentary visual effect of being slimming.
My mother's wedding dress was made from her brothers silk parachute...STILL looks great!
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
georger 247
Blevins, can you show me where the FBI claimed the Amboy chute might have been used by a military pilot in 1945? That's literally impossible as the canopy was manufactured in 1946.
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I have basically glazed over with this whole Amboy
chute thing, so what exactly is the contention
Pudknockers are making? The chute is Cooper's
main he used, or its the dummy chute Cossey said
had panels missing/was sewn shut? The photos
dont show a chute with panels missing? Silk vs
nylon I understand. Three weeks ago I knew what
silk and nylon are. Today?
I guess what really impresses me is how people
continue to work this problem by mind-melding from
afar vs. getting their hands dirty up close and
personal. I guess what is most at stake is the bar
room tab? Meanwhile the price of silk is in freefall.
Farflung 0
377,
I’m at a bit of an intellectual loss as to just what the criteria is for something to be certified eco-friendly or ‘Green’. I think the primary requirement is to sneer and bark at those who are seen as not environmentally sensitive while driving their SUV 25 miles to recycle a plastic bag full of cans.
Would that average person see feeding a bunch of caterpillars mulberry leaves in wire mesh boxes till they encase themselves in a cocoon to emerge as a beautiful…… wait a second. It never goes that far since the critters are gently removed from the boxes and boiled alive as the next step in the process of creating silk. Apparently the silk workers are allowed to eat the worms as part of a vocational benefit. I guess I’m somewhat conflicted on this particular point, but as long as the company only garnishes a reasonable amount from their paycheck I’m OK with it.
At least cotton is allowed to enjoy a full and enriching life and upon the natural end of the plants life cycle is harvested for lint and the seeds are recycled into the good Earth.
Wool is another natural fiber that has impressive heat retention properties and does not require the dispatch of the animal to harvest the material. However, I can safely say that a cotton plant never kicked me in the nuts while I was shearing it.
But bamboo socks? I had to do a quick search to see if I was being bamboozled to discover such an item does exist. Do you have some wooden shoes to compliment such hosiery?
I think ‘Green Points’ must be largely self-awarded. A neighbor feels she is extremely eco-friendly since she drives a Prius and I’m raping Mother Nature’s corpse by driving a vehicle with a V-8. Every work day she travels over 50 miles one way while saving the planet. My seven year old vehicle still has less than 10,000 miles. Math must not be a strong point for little green people.
I’m at a bit of an intellectual loss as to just what the criteria is for something to be certified eco-friendly or ‘Green’. I think the primary requirement is to sneer and bark at those who are seen as not environmentally sensitive while driving their SUV 25 miles to recycle a plastic bag full of cans.
Would that average person see feeding a bunch of caterpillars mulberry leaves in wire mesh boxes till they encase themselves in a cocoon to emerge as a beautiful…… wait a second. It never goes that far since the critters are gently removed from the boxes and boiled alive as the next step in the process of creating silk. Apparently the silk workers are allowed to eat the worms as part of a vocational benefit. I guess I’m somewhat conflicted on this particular point, but as long as the company only garnishes a reasonable amount from their paycheck I’m OK with it.
At least cotton is allowed to enjoy a full and enriching life and upon the natural end of the plants life cycle is harvested for lint and the seeds are recycled into the good Earth.
Wool is another natural fiber that has impressive heat retention properties and does not require the dispatch of the animal to harvest the material. However, I can safely say that a cotton plant never kicked me in the nuts while I was shearing it.
But bamboo socks? I had to do a quick search to see if I was being bamboozled to discover such an item does exist. Do you have some wooden shoes to compliment such hosiery?
I think ‘Green Points’ must be largely self-awarded. A neighbor feels she is extremely eco-friendly since she drives a Prius and I’m raping Mother Nature’s corpse by driving a vehicle with a V-8. Every work day she travels over 50 miles one way while saving the planet. My seven year old vehicle still has less than 10,000 miles. Math must not be a strong point for little green people.
I thought I had posted it but was unable to find a search to do it.
Searching with computers is a very weak point with me because I did not own one until 2000. No classes - and when it is something I can't do - I ask for help. You were the last one I expected aid from - Thank You.
Searching with computers is a very weak point with me because I did not own one until 2000. No classes - and when it is something I can't do - I ask for help. You were the last one I expected aid from - Thank You.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
georger 247
I thought I had posted it but was unable to find a search to do it.
Searching with computers is a very weak point with me because I did not own one until 2000. No classes - and when it is something I can't do - I ask for help. You were the last one I expected aid from - Thank You.
You're welcome Jo. Take care.
I guess I was mistaken. I had an NB6 with military Capewells but it must have been modified.
Anyway it would still be useful to see a photo of the riser end hardware on the Amboy chute. It might tell us if it had been in an NB6.
Airtwardo, what are your thoughts about the Amboy chute? Would Cossey use a 1946 twill canopy in a bailout rig in 1971? I don't think so but I'd value your opinion. I had ejector snaps on all my 60s and 70s leg straps. I liked them. They weren't dangerous in my opinion. I wouldn't want to do a water jump without them.
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