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Jo Stated:You KNOW that has been disputed - a lot of things were reported by the media and writers strickly for the dramatics - and NOT always actual. You were NOT on that plane and these writers where NOT on that plane nor the investigators, but the CREW was!
Robt Refutes:
Jo, You were NOT on that airplane either! If you want to argue the above then get in touch with Himmelsbach.
DID you talk to the crew - Pilot, co-pilot or engineer? DID YOU?
I don't depend on media interpretations or what someone else tells me - I go to the damn watering hole and talk to the horses,Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
You KNOW that has been disputed - a lot of things were reported by the media and writers strickly for the dramatics - and NOT always actual. You were NOT on that plane and these writers where NOT on that plane nor the investigators, but the CREW was!
georger 244
QuoteQuoteRataczak lays out the scenario clearly:
1) Airstairs open. Crew feels pressure bump in ears. Indicator light comes on showing door is now open in flight.
2) A short time later, less than two minutes at most, crew feels the plane bounce.
3) At the same time, the indicator light goes OFF for a second, and then comes back on for good, staying on for the remainder of the flight to Reno.
4) The indicator light came back on because when Cooper jumped, the stairs rebounded back to an almost-closed position for a second (light goes off), and then settled back down (light comes back on).
I think this is your scenario - not Rat's. Rat's
scenario conforms with the Transcript. Your's
doesn't. Read the Transcript. Spend time reading
the back thread ... it's all been discussed before
as much as you dislike and ignore that.
From Rataczak's interview for Into The Blast:
Quote'Paul (Sortum, head of Tech Operations, Flight Training, NWA) and many others did a lot of work trying to determine the exact area in general, and then tried to narrow down where the hijacker could have landed after he jumped from the airplane. They finally determined the likely spot. Well, our crew on board was 99% sure they were correct because we felt a tremendous amount of pressure bump in our ears when the aft stairs rebounded when they closed. It would be like rolling down and rolling back up the window with a vast crank on your car when you’re speeding down the highway, which is something we’ve all experienced with our ears.
We also got confirmation on the Flight Engineer’s panel indicating that the stairs had momentarily closed. I make the analogy that walking down those aft stairs during flight was like walking to the end of a diving board. The more you weigh, the more the board will bend, and when Cooper finally jumped from it, the stairs rebounded and sort of came back to neutral.
Well, the stairs were open about thirty to thirty-six inches under the air-stream after Cooper opened the door—that’s just the natural point where they will fall – the gap between the bottom of the stairs and the closure point in flight. When he walked out there his weight made the steps open further the farther he went down. Then, he was certainly able to jump from the bottom step. So we pretty much know when he jumped...'
As you can see, Rataczak confirms what I just said. Door opens, light comes on, stairs rebound, (Cooper jumping), light goes off, (stairs almost close momentarily) light comes back on for good. (stairs settle back down.)
Kayn U reed'h ?
Whatchu sayed was:
QUOTETH:
"Rataczak lays out the scenario clearly:
1) Airstairs open. Crew feels pressure bump in ears. Indicator light comes on showing door is now open in flight.
2) A short time later, less than two minutes at most, crew feels the plane bounce.
3) At the same time, the indicator light goes OFF for a second, and then comes back on for good, staying on for the remainder of the flight to Reno.
4) The indicator light came back on because when Cooper jumped, the stairs rebounded back to an almost-closed position for a second (light goes off), and then settled back down (light comes back on)."
aw hell - you figure it out - whatever.
Quote
Who said what -]
Jo. I have to ask -
Whats the word down there about the Anthony trial?
Looks like a helluva mess from here ?
Too many discrepancies - if I were on that jury I would have to say - we do NOT have enough evidence to convict nor to say she is not quilty of the crime.
My personal opionion is that she wanted to party and intended to put the child to sleep because she didn't have a sitter, but that she did NOT intend to kill the child. I also question WHY she did NOT call her parents so they could take care of the child. There have been so many lies told in this case - we may never know the truth.
If she was going to use Chlorform that is a poor choice as there are so many other choices availabe she could easily have acquired. A little cough syrup or alchohol in the childs bottle would have put her to sleep for a couple of hour. It is also a natural excretion of decaying bodies or a dirty diaper - so there is no evidene the childs body was ever in the trunk of that car.
The parents had a pool and they used chlorine in that pool. Could accidentally ingestion have killed the child or maybe even eating toothpaste. (I heard NO discussion about a child getting into toothpaste). There was a prescrition mouthwash my husband used that had heavy quantities of a chemical in it - did the child get into something like that. There have been so many lies told on the stands by every party that this whole case is a miss-trial to me.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
QuoteQuote'Sailshaw, Your idea that aircraft can navigate accurately using "cloud glow", even when it is reportedly not visible, is very interesting.
However, the hijacked airliner had at least two VORTAC receivers and two ADF receivers which I suspect are a lot more accurate than "cloud glow". This statement is just based on my personal experience among other things.
It seems to be a case of you against the world as to whether or not Cooper knew his location when he jumped or had any means to determine his location.
You are free to believe anything you want, but not all theories are created equal...'
I think Rataczak's made it pretty clear that the crew knew where they were at any given time during the flight. Airliners didn't just fly blind because there were clouds hanging around. Not generally. He's also been insistent on that they knew when Cooper jumped.
Rataczak lays out the scenario clearly:
1) Airstairs open. Crew feels pressure bump in ears. Indicator light comes on showing door is now open in flight.
2) A short time later, less than two minutes at most, crew feels the plane bounce.
3) At the same time, the indicator light goes OFF for a second, and then comes back on for good, staying on for the remainder of the flight to Reno.
4) The indicator light came back on because when Cooper jumped, the stairs rebounded back to an almost-closed position for a second (light goes off), and then settled back down (light comes back on).
Were they over Vancouver, or the Columbia River? Absolutely not. My information says at LEAST 8 and maybe 10 minutes of flying time north of Vancouver. This translates (@196mph) into between 24 and 32 miles north of Vancouver.
This would put them in the area between the Merwin Lake Dam and a few miles south of that point. Not coincidentally...the place they also found the parachute, which STILL has not been explained to my satisfaction.
I know some of you are accepting the FBI and Cossey's explanation on that one. No problem. I just don't agree.
HOORAY! At least you and I do agree on somethings! Robert 99 needs to BACK DOWN or STAND DOWN and stop twisting everything everyone says to suit his "NEEDS". Blevins you and I don't agree on many things - but we do agree on the fact that
Cooper DID jump before he got to the Columbia. Too much of what I was told and shown by Weber are indications that at least Cooper intended to land in a specific area and that he knew the area well enough to make his escape if he landed just about any where within the path from Seattle to Cames/Washougal (the only reason he said Mexico).
All he wanted to do was get in the air and jump before the plane got out of regions that would have been too dangerous and areas he might not be able to get out of OR out of range to notify his accomplice or acomplices (I firmly believe this).
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Farflung 0
Yes another authoritative interview which appears to fly in the face of that dry, historical data.
First ‘known fact’ is that one scorching hot stewardess named Tina, was witness to the opening of the stairs for the eloquent reason that she was the one that opened them. The crew did not have to guess when this happened since they were all aware and protective (like junkyard dogs) of Tina while she was at risk back there. That psycho could have pushed her out or taken her hostage for all anyone knew until she (Tina) returned to the cockpit. Is this all crystal clear???
Now the stairs are open, sound the ‘two minute (at most)’ warning.
So Tina returns to the cockpit and some time goes by.
According to Sluggo Monster’s timeline (extracted from the transcripts by certified, verified and authenticated sources) the pilot tried to make contact with Cooper at 20:05 PST and Cooper answered that everything is OK. 2005 hours local, not for reinforcement, I just get a rush out of typing all secret agenty with ‘2005 hours local’ and feel funny in my pants.
THEN at 2011 hours local (hang on a sec) is when Cooper is suspected to have jumped because of the pressure bump.
But 2011 is a full 6 (six) minutes after the Captain last called Cooper which would have been after Tina opened the stairs AND returned to the cockpit.
Yeah, that no more than two minutes has an aroma. Kinda reminds me of a first attempt to tase like vanilla ice cream again.
Time to for another misspoke/re-edit/Skipp said/dead silence moment.
First ‘known fact’ is that one scorching hot stewardess named Tina, was witness to the opening of the stairs for the eloquent reason that she was the one that opened them. The crew did not have to guess when this happened since they were all aware and protective (like junkyard dogs) of Tina while she was at risk back there. That psycho could have pushed her out or taken her hostage for all anyone knew until she (Tina) returned to the cockpit. Is this all crystal clear???
Now the stairs are open, sound the ‘two minute (at most)’ warning.
So Tina returns to the cockpit and some time goes by.
According to Sluggo Monster’s timeline (extracted from the transcripts by certified, verified and authenticated sources) the pilot tried to make contact with Cooper at 20:05 PST and Cooper answered that everything is OK. 2005 hours local, not for reinforcement, I just get a rush out of typing all secret agenty with ‘2005 hours local’ and feel funny in my pants.
THEN at 2011 hours local (hang on a sec) is when Cooper is suspected to have jumped because of the pressure bump.
But 2011 is a full 6 (six) minutes after the Captain last called Cooper which would have been after Tina opened the stairs AND returned to the cockpit.
Yeah, that no more than two minutes has an aroma. Kinda reminds me of a first attempt to tase like vanilla ice cream again.
Time to for another misspoke/re-edit/Skipp said/dead silence moment.
Robert99 50
QuoteQuote'Sailshaw, Your idea that aircraft can navigate accurately using "cloud glow", even when it is reportedly not visible, is very interesting.
However, the hijacked airliner had at least two VORTAC receivers and two ADF receivers which I suspect are a lot more accurate than "cloud glow". This statement is just based on my personal experience among other things.
It seems to be a case of you against the world as to whether or not Cooper knew his location when he jumped or had any means to determine his location.
You are free to believe anything you want, but not all theories are created equal...'
I think Rataczak's made it pretty clear that the crew knew where they were at any given time during the flight. Airliners didn't just fly blind because there were clouds hanging around. Not generally. He's also been insistent on that they knew when Cooper jumped.
Rataczak lays out the scenario clearly:
1) Airstairs open. Crew feels pressure bump in ears. Indicator light comes on showing door is now open in flight.
2) A short time later, less than two minutes at most, crew feels the plane bounce.
3) At the same time, the indicator light goes OFF for a second, and then comes back on for good, staying on for the remainder of the flight to Reno.
4) The indicator light came back on because when Cooper jumped, the stairs rebounded back to an almost-closed position for a second (light goes off), and then settled back down (light comes back on).
Were they over Vancouver, or the Columbia River? Absolutely not. My information says at LEAST 8 and maybe 10 minutes of flying time north of Vancouver. This translates (@196mph) into between 24 and 32 miles north of Vancouver.
This would put them in the area between the Merwin Lake Dam and a few miles south of that point. Not coincidentally...the place they also found the parachute, which STILL has not been explained to my satisfaction.
I know some of you are accepting the FBI and Cossey's explanation on that one. No problem. I just don't agree.
Mr. Blevins, After the airliner took off from Seattle, do you know the time (which is in the transcripts) and the approximate location of the aircraft when it reached 10,000 feet?
The target cruise speed after reaching 10,000 feet was 170 Knots (don't confuse with MPH) Indicated Airspeed which translates to about 195 Knots True Airspeed. (That is about 224 MPH.) Or to put it another way, in level flight the airliner had a target speed of about 3.25 nautical miles per minute through the air mass.
The ground speed is something else and to obtain it the true airspeed must be adjusted for the wind speed and direction. Mr. Blevins, what is your estimate of the wind speed and direction? What is your estimate of the ground speed?
Do you have an estimate for the time of the jump? Do you have an estimate for the location of the jump?
Does the sequence of the lights in the cockpit related to the air stairs provide a time for the jump? Probably. Do the lights provide a location for the jump? If you think so please explain your rationale.
You estimate that the jump took place about 24 to 32 statute (?) miles north of Vancouver (what is now the Battleground VORTAC?). Assuming these assumptions are correct, that translates to about 21 to 28 nautical miles north of the present day Battleground VORTAC and presumably on or near the centerline of V-23.
If Rataczak had one VOR and one DME tuned to what is now the BTG VORTAC, he could have instantly read them and that would have given a position for the jump that is as accurate as anything in the present day records. Did he do so? He apparently didn't.
So the estimated location of the jump has to be made based on the estimated flight path and the estimated position of the airliner along that flight path.
From the Seattle VORTAC to the current day Battleground VORTAC, is 105 nautical miles. The airliner probably passed within 1000 feet laterally of the Seattle VORTAC about the same time it rotated for take off.
Using the previous estimate (converted to nautical miles) of 21 to 28 nautical miles north of the BTG VORTAC, leaves 77 to 84 nautical miles that the airliner must travel from Seattle to reach the area you have specified.
Would you care to estimate the time the airliner arrived in the area you specified? Does this agree with what Rataczak said about the jump time?
I look forward to your response.
For your information, a number of calculations along the above line have already been made and I'm sure you can easily locate them.
Good Luck!
Robert Nicholson
sailshaw 0
Robert99: The aircraft was navigated as a normal plane would have in the same situation. The question to you, Robert, is how did DB know when to jump if he was not looking for the glow in the clouds over Vancouver and Portland? His navigation was without VORTAC receivers so again if you are so smart, how did DB know when to jump?
Bob
Bob
Robert99 50
QuoteRobert99: The aircraft was navigated as a normal plane would have in the same situation. The question to you, Robert, is how did DB know when to jump if he was not looking for the glow in the clouds over Vancouver and Portland? His navigation was without VORTAC receivers so again if you are so smart, how did DB know when to jump?
Bob
Sailshaw, It is very simple. Cooper would know to jump when he got to the end of the steps.
He wouldn't try to jump from half-way up the steps. So when he got to the end of the steps there was only one thing left to do. Jump!
Of course, Cooper didn't know exactly where he was geographically. Maybe to within 20 or 30 miles.
Robert Nicholson
georger 244
QuoteQuote
Who said what -]
Jo. I have to ask -
Whats the word down there about the Anthony trial?
Looks like a helluva mess from here ?
Too many discrepancies - if I were on that jury I would have to say - we do NOT have enough evidence to convict nor to say she is not quilty of the crime.
My personal opionion is that she wanted to party and intended to put the child to sleep because she didn't have a sitter, but that she did NOT intend to kill the child. I also question WHY she did NOT call her parents so they could take care of the child. There have been so many lies told in this case - we may never know the truth.
If she was going to use Chlorform that is a poor choice as there are so many other choices availabe she could easily have acquired. A little cough syrup or alchohol in the childs bottle would have put her to sleep for a couple of hour. It is also a natural excretion of decaying bodies or a dirty diaper - so there is no evidene the childs body was ever in the trunk of that car.
The parents had a pool and they used chlorine in that pool. Could accidentally ingestion have killed the child or maybe even eating toothpaste. (I heard NO discussion about a child getting into toothpaste). There was a prescrition mouthwash my husband used that had heavy quantities of a chemical in it - did the child get into something like that. There have been so many lies told on the stands by every party that this whole case is a miss-trial to me.
georger 244
QuoteYes another authoritative interview which appears to fly in the face of that dry, historical data.
First ‘known fact’ is that one scorching hot stewardess named Tina, was witness to the opening of the stairs for the eloquent reason that she was the one that opened them. The crew did not have to guess when this happened since they were all aware and protective (like junkyard dogs) of Tina while she was at risk back there. That psycho could have pushed her out or taken her hostage for all anyone knew until she (Tina) returned to the cockpit. Is this all crystal clear???
Now the stairs are open, sound the ‘two minute (at most)’ warning.
So Tina returns to the cockpit and some time goes by.
According to Sluggo Monster’s timeline (extracted from the transcripts by certified, verified and authenticated sources) the pilot tried to make contact with Cooper at 20:05 PST and Cooper answered that everything is OK. 2005 hours local, not for reinforcement, I just get a rush out of typing all secret agenty with ‘2005 hours local’ and feel funny in my pants.
THEN at 2011 hours local (hang on a sec) is when Cooper is suspected to have jumped because of the pressure bump.
But 2011 is a full 6 (six) minutes after the Captain last called Cooper which would have been after Tina opened the stairs AND returned to the cockpit.
Yeah, that no more than two minutes has an aroma. Kinda reminds me of a first attempt to tase like vanilla ice cream again.
Time to for another misspoke/re-edit/Skipp said/dead silence moment.
and when asked when Cooper jumped (when he
thought Cooper jumped) Rat said '5-10 minutes
after our last contact with him (at 20:05 ... and we
had not crossed the Columbia yet, ... and ... '
The last part is debated. Snowmman drilled in on
the last part namely "seeing" vs. "feeling" as to
what Rat had meant (as being conveyed here by
Ckret).
georger 244
QuoteQuoteRobert99: The aircraft was navigated as a normal plane would have in the same situation. The question to you, Robert, is how did DB know when to jump if he was not looking for the glow in the clouds over Vancouver and Portland? His navigation was without VORTAC receivers so again if you are so smart, how did DB know when to jump?
Bob
Sailshaw, It is very simple. Cooper would know to jump when he got to the end of the steps.
He wouldn't try to jump from half-way up the steps. So when he got to the end of the steps there was only one thing left to do. Jump!
Of course, Cooper didn't know exactly where he was geographically. Maybe to within 20 or 30 miles.
Robert Nicholson
Im going to stick my neck out and ask:
"how does he know anything ... to within 20 or
30 miles ... IF he literally does not know anything" ?
Anything is anything! (or, does anything actually
escape from a black hole? Do black holes
eventuallycollapse? Hawking says they do.)
There are two glaring facts here regarding Duane Weber as a suspect. The Seattle F.B.I. has dismissed him as a possible, and they continue to stand by that dismissal as of February of this year. I have no newer word on this, but I do have THAT.
The other is that there has been no verifiable, documentary evidence presented on Weber. I mean evidence that can stand the light of day and a thorough check. Yes, he was a criminal. There are lots of criminals. And being a criminal would actually give the Bureau an edge in this case. It is much more likely that someone with no previous record, someone you would hardly notice, was able to fool the Bureau for so long.
Are there any witnesses who will go public, step forward, and give testimony regarding Weber? If so, where are they and will they go on the record? If they do, their testimony would be checked for accuracy.
Jo repeated REBUTTAL:
ONE the FBI cannot explain away.
Why did the FBI refuse to let me see verifiable 'evidence' - the Jefferson File? Only after the time period for destruction of the files was I told I could get it on line. WHat is on line has NO pictures and is very very little. The other prisons I was able to obtain photos and files - the FBI refused the Jefferson file until the statue passed - and it was public record with the detailed file destroyed. My question to that prison prior to this were mulitple and different. No he was never here, We are NOT allowed to provide any information on Duane Weber or John Collins. All the same steps were taken to obtain the San Quentin file and the Canon City File without any problems...but, the questionable FILE was withheld.
As for witnesses the FBI did NOT do the DNA testing or make that statement until they had knowledge that 2 of the witnesses who could prove Duane was Cooper had died. Why do you think the asked for the DNA in 2003, but did NOT test it until Nov and Dec of 2007 and early 2008 (I have the DNA testing they "accidentally left in the box") when they returned the DNA samples. That is all part of a big big cover-up and it stinks to high heaven.
ALSO, note Duane told me he was DAN Cooper 11 days before he died - I do not call that on his death bed. Yes, death was inevitable without diaylsis, but a lot has been wriitten about this that is totally inaccurate.
His daughter in-law told me she knew Duane was Cooper. The FBI would NOT go requestion her and then she comes up dead just a few months later - supposed Over-dose.
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