lucky508 0 #1 March 17, 2008 What is the correct length and type of braided cord that keeps the sleeve attached to the canopy after deployment? I have a shorty sleeve on a MK1 PC. The cord I have is worn and has broken on the last two jumps. Thanks, Cael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,362 #2 March 17, 2008 Hi lucky, There were two schools of thought: One was to make it VERY long so that the sleeve & pilot chute would be behind the canopy and not into any of the steering slots. Two was to make it VERY short so that the sleeve & pilot chute would sit in the pulled-down apex area. Personally, I preferred #2; make it very short. Why not give both a try and see which one you like? JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WGore 0 #3 March 17, 2008 QuoteHi lucky, There were two schools of thought: One was to make it VERY long so that the sleeve & pilot chute would be behind the canopy and not into any of the steering slots. Two was to make it VERY short so that the sleeve & pilot chute would sit in the pulled-down apex area. Personally, I preferred #2; make it very short. The short line will increase opening shock. Something about seperating the snatch force from the actual opening deceleration. There is an explanation of this in Poynters manual. Personally I liked the long one, not for that reason though. After all in those days I was still bullet proof!GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ripcord4 0 #4 March 17, 2008 Use regular 550 suspension line and make the sleeve retainer line the length of the pleated canopy and crown lines for an unimpeded "slide-off" during deployment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites howardwhite 6 #5 March 17, 2008 Sleeve? How old-fashioned. You really need a POD.HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lucky508 0 #6 March 17, 2008 Howard, I thought I was doing good just having a shorty sleeve. Thanks to everyone for the answers. ATW, Cael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryBaumchen 1,362 #7 March 17, 2008 Hi Bob, I never experienced any greater opening shock with a very short retainer line. Originally, I jumped it with the long Pioneer sleeve that came with it and that thing would knock the sh** out of me at terminal. I finally went to a shorty XBO sleeve and life was all good once again. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites longtall 0 #8 March 18, 2008 I still jump the PC on occasion with a sleeve. But mostly I wanted to post with these jumpers with 40+ years of jumping. " 90 right, five miles then cut."---Pukin Buzzards Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites drjump 0 #9 March 18, 2008 Thousand pound, tubular nylon worked for me. At least the length of the canopy and crown lines combined. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WGore 0 #10 March 18, 2008 Quote Hi Bob, I never experienced any greater opening shock with a very short retainer line. Originally, I jumped it with the long Pioneer sleeve that came with it and that thing would knock the sh** out of me at terminal. I finally went to a shorty XBO sleeve and life was all good once again. JerryBaumchen Probably due to canopy slump in the sleeve. I got one of the first red, white, & blue PCs in my area and remember going back to a rag during the weekend because the openings were easier. Had bruises on my legs and shoulders from the openings. Of course those comfortable Milsurp container systems didn't help much either. Finally one of the sky gods of the time suggested sitting up on opening. Gee wish I had discovered that sooner.GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryBaumchen 1,362 #11 March 18, 2008 Hi Bob, Do you happen to remember the serial # of your old original R/W/B PC? Mine was 363. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WGore 0 #12 March 18, 2008 Not really Jerry. The original owner bought it in Oct 64 and I bought it from him in late spring 65. I sold it when I got drafted in summer 66 to make payments on my car while the folks tried o sell it. Spent the next couple years jumping rags while in the Army. Up side was we could get them for $10 through Quartermaster sales. Learned how to sew modifying the things for the Ft Knox Parachute Club. Lots a good times there even though we didn't get any aircraft support from the Army. BobGUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryBaumchen 1,362 #13 March 18, 2008 Hi Bob, Maybe they were sisters, I bought mine in Oct '64. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Colson 0 #14 March 19, 2008 Here is another PC question.....where have they all gone? Ive been trying to find a MKI, (or any other pc class canopy) for at least a year without success. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stratostar 5 #15 March 19, 2008 Your just not looking in the right places and your not willing to pay those over priced ones that show up now and again. I know where you could get one right now for 500.00 or another for 350.00. On the other hand I know where you can jump about 25 different ones of all kinds of colors, models and pack type for the cost of a lift tickets, packing and a donation for the up keep of the collection cuz it's a lot of work, oh and if you need to be trained you might want to buy lunch for your Ins.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites drjump 0 #16 March 19, 2008 Stan Jones of Texas was trying to sell a RWB Team PC in a Pioneer 3 pin delux H&C last year. Contact him at--sej@sjdiving.com or call 281-487-4287. Doc D-2785 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lucky508 0 #17 March 19, 2008 It's tough to find a good PC. I bought one that is junk for $100 but it came with a 3 pin pioneer H/C that is in excellent shape. so it was worth it. I found the MK1 I'm jumping now just by asking the seller of another canopy I was buying if he had any PC's available. I've been on the lookout for an olive drab PC for some time. I contacted Stratostar about it but the one he knows of is in the collection he mentioned. BTW, has any one heard of a "Black Knight" PC? It's a 24'er that is in dark camouflage. I'm told it has extra slots in the apex and will really thump you if you sink it in. ATW, Cael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stratostar 5 #18 March 19, 2008 This guy had one for sale awhile back. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?username=efs4ever; The OD green one that was listed is no longer to be found in the classifieds. You might have luck here being your military http://www.pioneeraero.com/2-5_fre_fal.htm for this is the one you seek and we have an orginal one stamped "pioneer recovery systems" not MC-3.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryBaumchen 1,362 #19 March 19, 2008 Hi Strato, Now that Pioneer link was interesting. Seems odd, at least to me, that they are still making the Mk. I, however I did notice that it is now made out of 2.0 oz ripstop. Anyone for going down Memory Lane????JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stratostar 5 #20 March 19, 2008 Quote I did notice that it is now made out of 2.0 oz ripstop. Anyone for going down Memory Lane???? Yea I talked Scotty Carbone into going on an all round jump in 04 and we gave him the "pioneer recovery systems" MK-1/MC-3 and still to this day when he sees me all he says is fuck you my back still hurts! Yea old fat asses are well advised to stick with the jumbos, and don;t try to stand up the landing.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pchapman 279 #21 March 20, 2008 Regarding the low supply of PC's: Well, I can't offer any new old stock PCs, but I have found some odds and ends that I can offer for sale. I've just put up an ad for a few PC style canopies (including a 'Russian' PC, Pap, PS-06), either in good but used condition, or well used condition. Colson and I are already discussing the sale of one. (Long after I and another rigger at the DZ raided the old rigging trailer for PC's for ourselves, I found some more and got the DZO to agree to let me sell them.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites poppenhager 1 #22 March 25, 2008 Use a Dbag and put it in the way the Army does T-10's.Less opening shock and no retainer line.Tied direct to the crown lines.I have 5000 jumps on PC's like that.POP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites howardwhite 6 #23 March 25, 2008 QuoteBTW, has any one heard of a "Black Knight" PC? It's a 24'er that is in dark camouflage. I'm told it has extra slots in the apex and will really thump you if you sink it in. This is the "official" Pioneer Black Knight PC, which does not seem to match your description. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lucky508 0 #24 March 25, 2008 Howard, It looks like a MK1 with an Iron cross type color pattern to me. Next time I get the chance I'll take a look at the camo one and get more info about it. great PC info on this thread! 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ripcord4 0 #4 March 17, 2008 Use regular 550 suspension line and make the sleeve retainer line the length of the pleated canopy and crown lines for an unimpeded "slide-off" during deployment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 6 #5 March 17, 2008 Sleeve? How old-fashioned. You really need a POD.HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucky508 0 #6 March 17, 2008 Howard, I thought I was doing good just having a shorty sleeve. Thanks to everyone for the answers. ATW, Cael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,362 #7 March 17, 2008 Hi Bob, I never experienced any greater opening shock with a very short retainer line. Originally, I jumped it with the long Pioneer sleeve that came with it and that thing would knock the sh** out of me at terminal. I finally went to a shorty XBO sleeve and life was all good once again. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
longtall 0 #8 March 18, 2008 I still jump the PC on occasion with a sleeve. But mostly I wanted to post with these jumpers with 40+ years of jumping. " 90 right, five miles then cut."---Pukin Buzzards Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drjump 0 #9 March 18, 2008 Thousand pound, tubular nylon worked for me. At least the length of the canopy and crown lines combined. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WGore 0 #10 March 18, 2008 Quote Hi Bob, I never experienced any greater opening shock with a very short retainer line. Originally, I jumped it with the long Pioneer sleeve that came with it and that thing would knock the sh** out of me at terminal. I finally went to a shorty XBO sleeve and life was all good once again. JerryBaumchen Probably due to canopy slump in the sleeve. I got one of the first red, white, & blue PCs in my area and remember going back to a rag during the weekend because the openings were easier. Had bruises on my legs and shoulders from the openings. Of course those comfortable Milsurp container systems didn't help much either. Finally one of the sky gods of the time suggested sitting up on opening. Gee wish I had discovered that sooner.GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,362 #11 March 18, 2008 Hi Bob, Do you happen to remember the serial # of your old original R/W/B PC? Mine was 363. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WGore 0 #12 March 18, 2008 Not really Jerry. The original owner bought it in Oct 64 and I bought it from him in late spring 65. I sold it when I got drafted in summer 66 to make payments on my car while the folks tried o sell it. Spent the next couple years jumping rags while in the Army. Up side was we could get them for $10 through Quartermaster sales. Learned how to sew modifying the things for the Ft Knox Parachute Club. Lots a good times there even though we didn't get any aircraft support from the Army. BobGUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,362 #13 March 18, 2008 Hi Bob, Maybe they were sisters, I bought mine in Oct '64. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Colson 0 #14 March 19, 2008 Here is another PC question.....where have they all gone? Ive been trying to find a MKI, (or any other pc class canopy) for at least a year without success. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #15 March 19, 2008 Your just not looking in the right places and your not willing to pay those over priced ones that show up now and again. I know where you could get one right now for 500.00 or another for 350.00. On the other hand I know where you can jump about 25 different ones of all kinds of colors, models and pack type for the cost of a lift tickets, packing and a donation for the up keep of the collection cuz it's a lot of work, oh and if you need to be trained you might want to buy lunch for your Ins.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drjump 0 #16 March 19, 2008 Stan Jones of Texas was trying to sell a RWB Team PC in a Pioneer 3 pin delux H&C last year. Contact him at--sej@sjdiving.com or call 281-487-4287. Doc D-2785 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucky508 0 #17 March 19, 2008 It's tough to find a good PC. I bought one that is junk for $100 but it came with a 3 pin pioneer H/C that is in excellent shape. so it was worth it. I found the MK1 I'm jumping now just by asking the seller of another canopy I was buying if he had any PC's available. I've been on the lookout for an olive drab PC for some time. I contacted Stratostar about it but the one he knows of is in the collection he mentioned. BTW, has any one heard of a "Black Knight" PC? It's a 24'er that is in dark camouflage. I'm told it has extra slots in the apex and will really thump you if you sink it in. ATW, Cael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #18 March 19, 2008 This guy had one for sale awhile back. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?username=efs4ever; The OD green one that was listed is no longer to be found in the classifieds. You might have luck here being your military http://www.pioneeraero.com/2-5_fre_fal.htm for this is the one you seek and we have an orginal one stamped "pioneer recovery systems" not MC-3.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,362 #19 March 19, 2008 Hi Strato, Now that Pioneer link was interesting. Seems odd, at least to me, that they are still making the Mk. I, however I did notice that it is now made out of 2.0 oz ripstop. Anyone for going down Memory Lane????JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #20 March 19, 2008 Quote I did notice that it is now made out of 2.0 oz ripstop. Anyone for going down Memory Lane???? Yea I talked Scotty Carbone into going on an all round jump in 04 and we gave him the "pioneer recovery systems" MK-1/MC-3 and still to this day when he sees me all he says is fuck you my back still hurts! Yea old fat asses are well advised to stick with the jumbos, and don;t try to stand up the landing.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #21 March 20, 2008 Regarding the low supply of PC's: Well, I can't offer any new old stock PCs, but I have found some odds and ends that I can offer for sale. I've just put up an ad for a few PC style canopies (including a 'Russian' PC, Pap, PS-06), either in good but used condition, or well used condition. Colson and I are already discussing the sale of one. (Long after I and another rigger at the DZ raided the old rigging trailer for PC's for ourselves, I found some more and got the DZO to agree to let me sell them.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
poppenhager 1 #22 March 25, 2008 Use a Dbag and put it in the way the Army does T-10's.Less opening shock and no retainer line.Tied direct to the crown lines.I have 5000 jumps on PC's like that.POP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 6 #23 March 25, 2008 QuoteBTW, has any one heard of a "Black Knight" PC? It's a 24'er that is in dark camouflage. I'm told it has extra slots in the apex and will really thump you if you sink it in. This is the "official" Pioneer Black Knight PC, which does not seem to match your description. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucky508 0 #24 March 25, 2008 Howard, It looks like a MK1 with an Iron cross type color pattern to me. Next time I get the chance I'll take a look at the camo one and get more info about it. great PC info on this thread! ATW, Cael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
