Waldschrat 0 #51 June 18, 2008 Quote What is the difference between old 7 cells and “modern day BASE canopies”? QuoteVents and valves Many modern BASE canopies are “vented” on the bottom skin. A vented canopy is generally recommended for a jumper who intends to jump slider-down or slider off on a regular basis. Vents are small meshed-in openings on the bottom skin, usually near the nose, which serve two primary functions. First, they give faster top skin inflation. A ram-air parachute catches air and begins to fly in two stages: first, the bottom skin catches the air, snapping quickly open and decelerating the jumper; and second, the canopy inflates, the top skin takes shape, and the parachute begins to fly as a wing. the whole article: http://www.basejumper.com/Articles/Gear/BASE_Canopies_681.html At terminal, a vented canopy can open hard, but also a bit quicker, i think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #52 June 18, 2008 QuoteActually, Hank did not invent the line stow pocket. Hank did invent the "tail pocket". He put the first one on my canopy after I have a line entanglement on a free packed main. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #53 June 18, 2008 QuoteQuote What is the difference between old 7 cells and modern day BASE canopies ? QuoteVents and valves Plus the span-wise reinforcing tapes across all line attachments that weren't even on Tempo reserves before 2001, Precision reserves prior to the R-Max, etc. When you're going to have hard openings it's nice to have the beefier construction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #54 June 19, 2008 QuoteMany modern BASE canopies are “vented” on the bottom skin. I had a StratoCloud in 1978 that was "vented" on the bottom skin. It worked a lot like cross porting which first appeared in the early 80’. Many of the early 7 cells were “vented”. Some one once said, “There are no new ideas just new applications”. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #55 June 19, 2008 QuoteQuoteMany modern BASE canopies are “vented” on the bottom skin. I had a StratoCloud in 1978 that was "vented" on the bottom skin. It worked a lot like cross porting which first appeared in the early 80’. Many of the early 7 cells were “vented”. Please see the attached photo. This is my "Classic" accuracy canopy, with two vents in the bottom skin, to help keep it pressurized during deep brake sinks, when there is little forward motion to "ram air" into the nose. Is this the same thing you guys are talking about? P.S. (The bottom flag is the U.S. Marine Corps.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #56 June 19, 2008 Yes it is. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fastphil 0 #57 June 19, 2008 One of my favorite low pulls wasn’t entirely low, but on a demo jump I spotted our exit right over a thousand foot tall building. With this part of the landscape protruding up into our airspace we had a special kind of ground rush (Phil Smith was on this load too; hmmm). Our becoming comfortable with the fast and reliable openings of freepacked square canopies also brought on the realization of the BASE opportunity that surrounded us. With several exits form planes and helicopters at barely over a thousand feet and the (famous) picture of Owen Quinn burned into my memory that transition seemed a no-brainer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Waldschrat 0 #58 June 19, 2008 Damned, why i don't cut simply holes in my dagger instead buying this troll MDV Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #59 June 19, 2008 Quote Damned, why i don't cut simply holes in my dagger instead buying this troll MDV Everyone has to make a living in some manner. Selling old style F-111 7 cells to base jumpers in one-way of doing just that. Base canopies are not just one idea but a collection of different ideas brought together for a specific purpose. From what I have heard they work quite well for what they were designed.SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
980 0 #60 June 20, 2008 Quote Everyone has to make a living in some manner. this is true Quote Selling old style F-111 7 cells to base jumpers in one-way of doing just that. this is not I will tell you why I say that: -I have flown old style F111 7 cells and they do not open or fly as well as modern BASE canopies. -I have seen many people BASEjump old style F111 7 cells, both slider off and slider up, all kinds of delays and they regularly take way longer to pressurize and start flying. Now these may not seem like big differences to the average skydiver, but believe me, the BASE manufacturers have put a lot of work into developing their products and it shows if you try them out. Sure, they are still low aspect ratio 7 cells made from low-porosity ripstop nylon, but the linetrims have evolved and so have the nose angles, the airfoils, the nose shapes, the control line configurations, the construction techniques, the reefing systems etc. The vents have gotten more and bigger as well as being covered by one-way valves these days, to maintain your flare power. Most companies also offer a full or partial ZP tospskin. One company offers a low pack volume version intended for streamlined low profile containers that push tracking and wingsuiting to new levels of performance. For example, I had a 252 Parafoil and did about 50 jumps on it and believe me, my Blackjack 260 does everything better than the Parafoil in addition to being better constructed(in my opinion as a rigger). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #61 June 20, 2008 Like I said before. "Base canopies are not just one idea but a collection of different ideas brought together for a specific purpose. From what I have heard they work quite well for what they were designed." SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RogerRamjet 0 #62 July 13, 2008 Quotenot to take anything from Bill for noticing its application in skydiving, but he was 9 years behind Gerald J.S. Wilde's book Booth came up with those long before 1994 (when that book was published)... ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UDSkyJunkie 0 #63 July 21, 2008 QuoteNah, most people have just turned into turbine brats. I 'grew up' on a cessna dz and as such have absolutely no problem exiting at 2000. Most turbine brats would never consider that. Just a matter of perspective. No argument that turbines have made some people a bit uppity, but I don't see a correlation to opening altitude.... I'd be fine exiting at 2000' if I was jumping an F-111 canopy. You'd be in the saddle with your brakes popped by 1700', and the likleyhood of a malfunction being a big problem is very low. Not so much with my Sabre2 that takes 600-1000 feet to open and almost that at sub-terminal, and can get pretty damn out of hand in a malfunction, with a ridiculous decent rate."Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
low_pull1 2 #64 September 10, 2008 Bill, J.S is the one that owes beer! He was first! You lucked out, one less case that u owe! ,,,,,,,,,,, not to take anything from Bill for noticing its application in skydiving, but he was 9 years behind Gerald J.S. Wilde's book Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
low_pull1 2 #65 September 10, 2008 I remember goining for one more point, in a 20 way in the 80s...... got the point, and all broke at no more than 2 grand! Couldent pull until ya got seperation! . WOW my heart still pumps fast thinking! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Who did low pulls....nobody I ever heard of... ----------------------------------------------------------- "I didn't pull low." "Yes, you damn well did. When you pulled, I could count all the fingers on your left hand!" "Oh, okay. So, next time if I make my left hand into a fist it's okay?" Bill Bright(ness), BASE jumper and Skydive Houston CReW Dawg, discussing his 'maybe' low pull with the DZO on a lazy Friday afternoon. Oh, it was low alright. The ants were scattering on this one. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Years ago...I had a bit of a 'reputation' for occasionally fudging on the rules in this area. My gear was an accuracy canopy with a 1/2 mesh slider and a frap strap, with pull-out PC - old style 1st generation wonderdog. Pulling the twinkie opened the pack tray and with the frap strap, openings were 'brisk' to say the least ... it was like hanging the pilotchute on a hook as ya fell past it... At ole Jim 'roundman' Delap's 'DZ & BBQ stand'....one evening we had 100 bucks on the first one to dead center the disk on the sunset load. I won the money but got drenched in Budweiser for: ~pullin' stupid low... Roundman said he 'had me on the clock' and it was less than 5 seconds under canopy...I mention to him that he wasn't wearing a watch...Delap just shook his head and said~ "I was watching the second hand on YOURS!" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ripcord Theme ~ Black holes are where God divided by zero ~ in2jumping PM Friend Jumps License In sport : 400 : C 25554 : 9 years Jun 13, 2008, 11:09 PM Post #49 of 64 (446 views) Copy Shortcut Registered: Nov 26, 2007 Posts: 110 Re: [grimmie] Low Pull Artists vs. Swoopers [In reply to] Quote | Reply -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No, we swoop 'cuz chicks dig it! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chicks dig guys on crutches or in wheelchairs? dudeman17 PM Friend United States Jumps License In sport : : D : 29 years Jun 18, 2008, 9:58 AM Post #50 of 64 (331 views) Copy Shortcut Registered: Jun 18, 2008 Posts: 4 Re: [mjosparky] Low Pull Artists vs. Swoopers [In reply to] Quote | Reply -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tail pocket or as you say “tailgate” was an invention of Hank Ascuitto in the early 80’s to control lines during deployment on free packed mains. Had nothing to do with BASE. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Actually, Hank did not invent the line stow pocket. It was invented by someone at Para-Flite, I think Elek Puskas or Jake Brake if I had to hazard a guess, when they came out with the first square reserves, the Safety Star and the Safety Flyer, and it was on the side of the deployment bag as it is today. Hank, Al Frisby and a few others adapted it to the tail for freepacked mains. Al put one on my canopy when i got my first square about that time. I was the one who then brought it to BASE jumping, well over two and a half decades ago, when BASE jumping was first beginning. The other reply about the tail pocket and the tailgate being two different things is correct. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #66 September 10, 2008 QuoteActually, Hank did not invent the line stow pocket. It was invented by someone at Para-Flite, I think Elek Puskas or Jake Brake if I had to hazard a guess, when they came out with the first square reserves, the Safety Star and the Safety Flyer, and it was on the side of the deployment bag as it is today. Hank, Al Frisby and a few others adapted it to the tail for freepacked mains. Al put one on my canopy when i got my first square about that time. I was the one who then brought it to BASE jumping, well over two and a half decades ago, when BASE jumping was first beginning. The other reply about the tail pocket and the tailgate being two different things is correc Hank came up with the tail pocket before the square reserve came along. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #67 September 12, 2008 So which would say has the greater spectator appeal; swooping is very cool to watch, but terminal freefall below 500' AGL is completely awe inspiring, especially when there is low background noise on the ground. I've made freefalls from planes, helicopters and BASE at 1000 feet but to freefall below a thousand feet while at terminal takes a different breed. All the oldtimer low pull artists I've known seemed to use Piglet (round) canopies... __________________________________________________ Well, I wasn't an artist, but I used a Strong lopo. The rye field was impressive.If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zoobrothertom 5 #68 September 12, 2008 I've done some CRW with folks that considered a cutaway over the landing area a mandatory low reserve pull. When someone is coming right at you, pulls, has a 10~15 second ride and has his free bag land next to him, it is something to see. Just not too often! I've had 9 reserve rides out of 10 malfunctions/wraps. I think maybe one or two of them could've been low...Hey fastphil, I bet we get flamed! ____________________________________ I'm back in the USA!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
