Growing Balls/Spotting

[FallinWoman 1]

I just wanted tol share an important lesson I learned today. I was spotting for me and Canopycudler. There were four of us in the C-182, then the JM and student got out. We were getting a second pass. When I asked for the second pass I meant that I wanted us closer to the DZ. The pilot just basically turned in place. From the ground, the DZO corrected direction of jump-run. Then The pilot looked at us like, "Get out!"
I knew that the spot was WAY long, even on a high wind day. I called the cut anyway and we got out. We both held rear risers the whoe way back....but we landed in the landing area safely.
What I learned though (after kinda getting an ass chewing by a JM) is that I have the RIGHT to ask for a go-around for any reason. Just cuz the pilot wants me out or the DZO told the pilot where to go does not eliminate my right or responsibilty to get out where I think it is safe.
I just grew the balls to tell that pilot EXACTLY what I want!!!
(BTW...on a later jump I spotted again, got the jump run that I wanted and the spot was perfect!!!!)
Anne

[diverdriver 6]

I would suggest also talking to the pilot (BEFORE take off) about what the jump run has been up to that point, assuming this is not the first load of the day. Baring exact instructions from you they are likely to fly the jump run that they want. If you want something different then say something then. If you want a go-around then tell the pilot why you want a go-around. In a 182 you are sitting right next to him/her so there's no reason why you can't let them know with ease. By the way I read your post a JM and student got out just before you at the full altitude. Is this correct? There is no reason (barring clouds, aircraft passing underneath, open container in aircraft, something completely catastrophic) that you need a second pass for just 2 two-ways. It doesn't take much planning to accomplish.
I would think that you would want to go out on your two-way before the JM and student. Why was it planned this way ahead of time to make two passes?
Chris

[AggieDave 6]

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There is no reason (barring clouds, aircraft passing underneath, open container in aircraft, something completely catastrophic) that you need a second pass for just 2 two-ways. It doesn't take much planning to accomplish

More then a few times I've had to have the pilot go around due to 2-ways taking a very long time getting out of the door in a 182. Yes, it doesn't take much planning, but sometimes, especially with students, the time it takes for them to get in position under the strut, etc is long enough to totally hose a spot for the people waiting to jump.
A few weeks ago, I learned my lesson with a similar situation, the pilot gave the door call right about where we should have been leaving the aircraft, after asking for a go around, which he didn't want to do, I eventually caved to him and got out. The spot was totally hosed, I should have known better, but I just wanted to get in the air and didn't feel like trying to argue with the pilot, especially after sitting in a fart filled 182 for 25 minutes climbing to altitude.
"Homer Simpson, smiling politely."

[FallinWoman 1]

JM wanted to get out first and was taking the spot a bit long. The winds were hauling ass at 3000 ft, and the student is a little guy under a 230 (i think) so they wanted him to be out a ways. I wanted to be quite a bit closer and thought that I had conveyed that to the pilot. My biggest mistake was accepting a spot I was uncomfortable with.
BTW.. the JM and student took forever to climb out and ended up landing off....
Anne

[diverdriver 6]

Well, I certainly don't agree with no go around when asked for. You are gonna have to explain yourself then or later. But hey, the pilot is being payed to get you to altitude and make a good spot. If making a good spot means doing a go-around then that's what needs to be done. But as a jumper you have to explain clearly why you are calling for a go-around. I think that's fair.
Chris

[skymedic 0]

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would suggest also talking to the pilot (BEFORE take off) about what the jump run has been up to that point, assuming this is not the first load of the day.

Like you could do that at SDC......
Cheers....vasbyt
marc
"I have no fear of falling, I just hate hitting the ground"-The Badlees...

[JumpinJohn 0]

Just out of curiosity, who chewed you out when you got down? I can't believe that if the first group landed out you got bitched out for asking for a go around. I certainly would have done the same thing in your position...
John

[FallinWoman 1]

I did not get chewed for asking for a go around...I got chewed out for not insisting on the spot that I wanted. I left the plane cuz I was being whimpy about demanding a second go around to get exactly what I wanted. The result was that Tina and I had to ride risers to get back, and I knew that was going to be the case. That was what the ass chewing was, not that I asked for another pass...
And I agree that I should have been very clear with the pilot about what I wanted. Thankfully I have learned that lesson without anything really bad having to happen!
Anne

[RichM 0]

I agree. Taking a plane around can be a very daunting decision. I recently made that call after the official JM got out and his group spent ages in the door before they left. I knew the only sensible thing was to take it around, but that didn't stop me feeling scared about taking the responsibility. I asked 2 other groups not leave whie I took it around. Everyone landed on the DZ.
The consequences happened extremely quickly. The next day I was made jumpmaster for the first lift, and for several more lifts that day. This was not stretching my experience, but I think now the CCI respects me for that decision and trusts me with more than he did before that situation.
Rich M
1 jump older than I was last jump

[weid14 0]

so I have to ask, if you were planning on getting out on the same pass, at teh same altitude, why was the student getting out first seeing as how they normally pull higher?

[FallinWoman 1]

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so I have to ask, if you were planning on getting out on the same pass, at teh same altitude, why was the student getting out first seeing as how they normally pull higher?

1. That is what the JM wanted.
2. We were planning a second pass anyway....The student/JM were doing a SW jumprun and were planning to take it really far out due to the winds screaming out of the SW between 2500 and 4000..... We then wanted a more SSW jumprun and wnated to be in closer cuz we wouldn't be under canopy til below the crazy winds.
Idally I think we should have done our pass first os there would be no chance of us getting over them in any way....but I left that up to the JM
Anne

[JumpinJohn 0]

Ohhhhh, I get it. Well its good you guys made it back alright.

[diverdriver 6]

See, I asked that question many posts ago. What was the reasoning the JM wanted that. It makes no sense and if I was DZO I think I would have to have a discussion with that JM as to why it was planned that way. Maybe there's something here I'm missing. It just doesn't make sense that I can put out 23 people (11 groups) on one pass and four people can't get out of a cessna on one pass.
Chris