CBurket 0 #1 March 21, 2002 I am in the market for a new main and was wondering if there was anyone out there who has flown a heatwave and a safire. I weigh 230 out the door and flew a demo Safire 189. I know the heatwave has a pretty good price. How does it compare as far as turn speed, forward speed, diving characteristics, corss-control and oversteer? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #2 March 21, 2002 A Heatwave is in a whole new class of canopy. Its closer to a Stiletto then a Safire. Look at the Hornet, same great price, less spinny issues and less High proformance issues. And the Hornet is similar to the Safire... Demo them all and decide for your self...I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend... ~3EB Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramon 0 #3 March 22, 2002 Hornet is the one to compare with safire. It is sort of like a sabre but slightly eliptical like a safire (flares like a sabre though).Heatwave is a really good stilleto knock off.both are made of South African Fabric like a triathlon and are easy to pack.added bonus is the line attachment points are different colors which aids packing (Alines on colore, b line attachment points another etc).Good parachutes..don't knock the price.ramon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Haeloth 0 #4 March 22, 2002 How is the Safire as a first sub 200 ZP canopy?"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #5 March 22, 2002 The safire's a good choice for first canopy. It's between a sabre and sabre2 I think. I wouldn't say the "F" word too much either I'm not crazy - I'm a Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramon 0 #6 March 23, 2002 Demo some other canopies if you are considering paying for a Safire.there is no reason to not demo unless some buddy has a used safire at some un beatable price. You can definitely find a used sabre at a good price.ramon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Engovatov 0 #7 March 23, 2002 >You can definitely find a used sabre at a good price.Yeah, from a person trying to save his back from crappy openings.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #8 March 23, 2002 Now... I've jumped a few Sabres (4 differnt ones) and everyone of them post 1995 is fine. PD fixed the issue all the way back in '95/96 but yet people still swear every Sabre is bad.... Sorry but most Sabres are excellent canopies and if there is a slammer its in the minority by far.... I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend... ~3EB Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Engovatov 0 #9 March 23, 2002 >Sorry but most Sabres are excellent canopies and if there is a slammer its in the minority by far.... Just like Safires, yet the people still spread FUD about them.. Opinions are like assholes... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #10 March 23, 2002 The Safire would'nt have FUD about it if it did'nt need a Company Autherized after market mod to make some of them landable canopies....I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend... ~3EB Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Engovatov 0 #11 March 23, 2002 >The Safire would'nt have FUD about it if it did'nt need a Company Autherized after market mod to make some of them landable canopies....Just like pockets on Sabre sliders? And if you are refering to the Derek's mod - that's not the reasoning and situation that HE described.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jceman 1 #12 March 23, 2002 QuoteThe Safire would'nt have FUD about it if it did'nt need a Company Autherized after market mod to make some of them landable canopies....Landable? The Safire simply needs a pilot who knows how to stage a flare, not just stab and jerk. It lands differently than other canopies, but I have never seen one that was not "landable". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #13 March 23, 2002 The Safire performance option is something I came up w/ for another application (my BASE canopy) and applied it to Safires. By the same lines you could say the H-mod (is that the correct name?) for the Cobalt is necessary to make a Cobalt swoop. I think anyone would argue against that concept. Aftermarket options do not mean that the original design is bad. My Safire flew and landed great before, now it is a little better. My idea was looked at by Icarus and they liked it.As for Sabre's being "fixed", I have watched students have the slider hit the links in approximately 100ft. They were unable to jump for several weeks due to the opening. They would sometime open very hard. These Sabres were manufactured in early 2000. I have put pockets on the sliders of a number of Sabre's w/ very good results.Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #14 March 23, 2002 Yeah... I know what your saying Derek, but what I was trying to say was that there seems to be something really strange if 2 identical canopy sizes proform so radically different. I've watched some Safires be almost bowting and they still don't have the flare power to lead to a nice an gentle stop like others. Openings are a tricky thing to predict sometimes. Packing, body postion,air speed, PC size, lots of little factors leading to the feeling of the opening. I was getting slammed consistantly on a canopy untill I changed the place ment of the slider. Each canopy has its own favorite way to be packed. Some times there is the odd opening... as I'm sure your aware like the off heading for no reason, the slightly longer snivel, the slightly faster opening....Landings should be the same across the board for a canopy.When half the Safires on a DZ have poor flares and the other half have super great flares with the same jumpers... thats kinda weird in my opinion. I'm more courious on why only a small number of them have such poor landings and why others are super great canopies....I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend... ~3EB Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #15 March 23, 2002 I generally like PD's products, but I will not jump a Sabre.A friend of mine jumped a 170 last year and literally was in tears when she landed from the hard opening. This Sabre was less then a year old and had about 75 jumps on it.The Sabre 2's are great canopies. I wonder how long until PD discontinues the original Sabre? Naming the new one a Sabre 2 seems to imply they will be doing this._AmICQ: 5578907MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com AIM: andrewdmetcalfeYahoo IM: ametcalf_1999 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Engovatov 0 #16 March 24, 2002 >When half the Safires on a DZ have poor flares and the other half have super great flares It is fairly sensitive to the flare staging (not a very bad trait IMO) and where you atached your toggles/riser length, even harness size will affect your staging, until you tuned in the relationship between your hand positioning and the tail deflection.. Not good when you swap multiple rigs, but does not bother me, when jumping the same rig.. Life is full of trade-offs.. Just a hypothesis.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramon 0 #17 March 24, 2002 luv it.I could hardly land Hooks 189 Safire...stood it up..but...almost didn't Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tomblin 0 #18 March 24, 2002 What is this Safire mod some people have been talking about????Just bought one, put about dozen jumps on it loaded at 1.4 and havent had the first problem landing it.....single or double stage flare. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #19 March 24, 2002 Landing it was easy.. It just felt like a boat.. lol Semper Fi ..... http:// www.aahit.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ramon 0 #20 March 25, 2002 It is probably because you have a good flare technique.All the parachutes I had been flying were very forgiving of poor technique (though surfs would not be as long as possible). I had been doing an exagerated...late two stage flare. This really showed itself when I first started jumping an FX...I had to re-learn how to flare.I think a Safire wants a very smooth controlled flare not stabbing...but that is my very limited experience opinion.Sabres, stilletos, vengeance...all extremely shallow brakes and forgiving. Good technique will probably make a safire land just as well.r Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DZDale 0 #21 March 25, 2002 I say go for the Hornet, Very good canopy for an excellent price, packing is also easy because of the colour coded line attachments and softer ZP fabric.Dale A man's dreams are an index to his greatness.- Zadok Rabinwitz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TALONSKY 0 #22 March 25, 2002 I find it very interesting that some people have a hard time landing a Safire. I do not consider myself an expert at all but after 150 jumps on a Falcon 195 wing loaded 1.28/1, I got a Safire 169 wing loaded a 1.5/1 and in my first 50 landing I had 2 that were not stood up. Since then I have put on 100 more jumps and have not stood up around 10 for various reasons. I personally feel that if I can land this canopy without problems then most people should be able to. I am very current and jump 5 times a weekend (weather permitting) which may help. I think Safire is a great canopy and can be flown as conservative or as aggressive as desired with out problem. I definitely have not gotten bored with this canopy nor do I see myself for several years. I also love the openings, they are crisp but not hard. I have never had a hard opening on this canopy and I have done some pretty trashy pack jobs. I have flown Hornets to, I think they are a good canopy and comparable to Safire. I have found the Hornet to be less forgiving on packing. I also found the Hornet’s toggle and riser pressure to be greater than the Safire.Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #23 March 25, 2002 Its all due to the control range of the Icarus products I think. After looking at video of landings last weekend at home from last year, I think I know why some people have problems. They do the PD flare and get in trouble since the canopy is not flared all the way when they are trying to stop. That still don't explain the few I saw near bowtieing that had no intention of slowing down the decent rate.....Also Kirk, thanks to the weird way the Safire is measured, you are actually at more like a 1.62 loading then a 1.5. Safires are measured totally different and are equal to about 93% of the square footage as almost any other canopy including other Icarus stuff. The 169 is about the same as a PD Sabre2 157 if one was made.I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend... ~3EB Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,994 #24 March 26, 2002 >I find it very interesting that some people have a hard time landing a Safire. As I've said before, I think one big reason is that Safires are a bit inconsistent compared to other canopies out there. I have one that opens hard; some people have Safires that don't land well. The key lies in getting a "good one."-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TALONSKY 0 #25 March 26, 2002 Thanks PhreeZone, I actually knew that one. I did not want to start on that subject because that one has been debated here before .I have taken a tape measure to mine flat on the ground and compared it to a Sabre 150. Mine actually was a tad smaller than the Sabre 150 do the Safire being tapered. I did find Icarus to be a great source of info when I called up and talked to them prior to purchasing my Safire. They also told me about the sizing issue. Blue SkiesKirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
tomblin 0 #18 March 24, 2002 What is this Safire mod some people have been talking about????Just bought one, put about dozen jumps on it loaded at 1.4 and havent had the first problem landing it.....single or double stage flare. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #19 March 24, 2002 Landing it was easy.. It just felt like a boat.. lol Semper Fi ..... http:// www.aahit.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramon 0 #20 March 25, 2002 It is probably because you have a good flare technique.All the parachutes I had been flying were very forgiving of poor technique (though surfs would not be as long as possible). I had been doing an exagerated...late two stage flare. This really showed itself when I first started jumping an FX...I had to re-learn how to flare.I think a Safire wants a very smooth controlled flare not stabbing...but that is my very limited experience opinion.Sabres, stilletos, vengeance...all extremely shallow brakes and forgiving. Good technique will probably make a safire land just as well.r Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DZDale 0 #21 March 25, 2002 I say go for the Hornet, Very good canopy for an excellent price, packing is also easy because of the colour coded line attachments and softer ZP fabric.Dale A man's dreams are an index to his greatness.- Zadok Rabinwitz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #22 March 25, 2002 I find it very interesting that some people have a hard time landing a Safire. I do not consider myself an expert at all but after 150 jumps on a Falcon 195 wing loaded 1.28/1, I got a Safire 169 wing loaded a 1.5/1 and in my first 50 landing I had 2 that were not stood up. Since then I have put on 100 more jumps and have not stood up around 10 for various reasons. I personally feel that if I can land this canopy without problems then most people should be able to. I am very current and jump 5 times a weekend (weather permitting) which may help. I think Safire is a great canopy and can be flown as conservative or as aggressive as desired with out problem. I definitely have not gotten bored with this canopy nor do I see myself for several years. I also love the openings, they are crisp but not hard. I have never had a hard opening on this canopy and I have done some pretty trashy pack jobs. I have flown Hornets to, I think they are a good canopy and comparable to Safire. I have found the Hornet to be less forgiving on packing. I also found the Hornet’s toggle and riser pressure to be greater than the Safire.Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #23 March 25, 2002 Its all due to the control range of the Icarus products I think. After looking at video of landings last weekend at home from last year, I think I know why some people have problems. They do the PD flare and get in trouble since the canopy is not flared all the way when they are trying to stop. That still don't explain the few I saw near bowtieing that had no intention of slowing down the decent rate.....Also Kirk, thanks to the weird way the Safire is measured, you are actually at more like a 1.62 loading then a 1.5. Safires are measured totally different and are equal to about 93% of the square footage as almost any other canopy including other Icarus stuff. The 169 is about the same as a PD Sabre2 157 if one was made.I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend... ~3EB Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,994 #24 March 26, 2002 >I find it very interesting that some people have a hard time landing a Safire. As I've said before, I think one big reason is that Safires are a bit inconsistent compared to other canopies out there. I have one that opens hard; some people have Safires that don't land well. The key lies in getting a "good one."-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #25 March 26, 2002 Thanks PhreeZone, I actually knew that one. I did not want to start on that subject because that one has been debated here before .I have taken a tape measure to mine flat on the ground and compared it to a Sabre 150. Mine actually was a tad smaller than the Sabre 150 do the Safire being tapered. I did find Icarus to be a great source of info when I called up and talked to them prior to purchasing my Safire. They also told me about the sizing issue. Blue SkiesKirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
