flight of the phoenix

[keithbar 1]

o.k so i know it's got nothing to do with skydiving. but I was watching the old jimmy stewart movie today about the plane crashing in the desert. and was wondering is someone on here might know what type of aircraft that was in the movie. at a guess I'd say a c117 ( flying boxcar) maybe???

i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .

[quade 4]

In the 1965 version of the movie it's a C-82A Packet.
In the 2004 version it's a C-119 Flying Boxcar.

Both were built by Fairchild and are easily confused.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[keithbar 1]

it was the original. 1965 version. with jimmy stewart. sweet. thanks quade. I was sure someone on here would know. so I learned two things. the flying boxcar was a c-119. and the plane in the movie was a c-82A packet. on a related note. anyone know if the starting system they used in the movie (with the shotgun shell looking explosive charge thingy ) is a real system for starting an aircraft engine. or was that something hollywood added for dramatic effect.

i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .

[tri160 1]

yes it is real.It was called a Kauffman starter. It basically uses basically a large shotgun shell to kick over the engine.

[lodestar 0]

Those 119's were a true workhorse, they flew many many parachute missions as well as heavy cargo work like vehicles and pallets of ammo and supplies. They were noisy but could fly like a SOB and carried a huge load....
The best version was an early design that later came to be the "Puff the magic Dragon" c-47 with guns. The AC-119G "Shadow" variant was fitted with four six-barrel 7.62 mm mini-guns, armor plating, flare-launchers, and night-capable infrared equipment

AC-119K "Stinger" version, which featured the addition of two 20 mm cannon, improved avionics, and two underwing-mounted J-85-GE-17 turbojet engines, adding nearly 6,000 lbf of thrust.

Read more here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-119_Flying_Boxcar

[pchapman 279]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffman_starter

[keithbar 1]

thanks for all the great info guys. very good stuff. I know my dad had talked about making some military jumps from the c-119 in the 50's

i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .

[377 22]

Quote

In the 1965 version of the movie it's a C-82A Packet.
In the 2004 version it's a C-119 Flying Boxcar.

Both were built by Fairchild and are easily confused.

ALL about C 82 PACKETS:

http://www.c82packet.com/

There was one of these C 82 beasts based at the Santa Monica CA airport in the early 80s when I lived nearby. It looked like a derelict but once in a great while it would fire up and fly away. It was used to transport helicopters according to an old airport guy who kept track of such things. It had a jet mod, one engine mounted on top of the fuselage.

A friend of mine, now deceased, snagged a contract to fly a bunch of refurbed ex USAF C 119s from the Fairchild factory to Italy via Bangor Maine. He and his buddies lied and claimed mucho time in C 119s when in reality none had ever flown one although they had thousands of hours in other heavy prop transports. They poured over manuals for weeks sweating it out. Their first C 119 flight was transatlantic. The delivered all of them to the Italian AF and made good bucks. He said it was the noisiest plane he had ever flown in.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[rapter 0]

Some other info on the film,

http://www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/Mantz-P1.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n82nN_lqn58

Only the good die young, so I have found immortality,

[DavidB 0]

Quote

Some other info on the film,

http://www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/Mantz-P1.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n82nN_lqn58

When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

[steve1 5]

I made four of my five jumps at Army jump school, out of a C-119. We later jumped them at Bragg too. "People ask me how the hell old are you?"

That was back in 1970. I don't know if any of them are still flying.

We used the two side doors to jump. That made for some close exits, because the two doors were very close together.

The jumpmaster would get the two sticks moving out the doors and then he'd get out of the way.

I've heard that some jump masters will tap a jumper on the left door and then the right door, back and forth till everyone is out, but I never saw it done like that....

[Guru312 0]

Quote

I made four of my five jumps at Army jump school, out of a C-119. ... "People ask me how the hell old are you?"

I went through jump school at Bragg in March of 1960. I can't remember what I jumped from in school but I know I had a half dozen or more C-119 jumps. A very fun plane to jump. Some guys were lucky to make tailgate jumps from the C-119 with the clam shell doors off. That would have been fun.

We also jumped C-123 and C-130 aircraft. I was lucky to be in during an aircraft transition time. I had to wait until civilian jumping to jump a C-47 but then it was a DC-3.

People ask me that question all the time.

The only good thing about getting old is that my stories keep getting better with each telling.

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[steve1 5]

My very first jump should have been out of a C-119. We got all chuted up. The wind came up. We sat in this really hot quanset building for hours, with sweat dripping off our noses.

Occaisionally a black hat would walk through, and shout, "What-a-ya gonna be?"

Of course all of us would shout...."Airborne!" at the top of our lungs.

Finally the wind went down a little, so they crammed us into the back of a C-119. When we got to jump altitude they openned the back doors. I remember looking out the doors and thinking...."Oh shit!" "I wonder if I can really do this?"

Later the jump master touched my face, and said...."You all right Boy?" in a deep southern drawl.

"Yes Sargent", I quirped, with a sick grin. I guess he could tell, I was plenty scared.

But the winds were too strong, and we had to land.

The next morning, there was a big C-141 waiting for us. So, that was my first jump.

The next four jumps (at Benning) were out of 119's. I made those four jumps on a badly sprained ankle. I didn't want to get recycled, so I tried not to limp whenever a Black Hat was watching....

[Glitch 0]

I got 'very' lucky and made 1 jump from 'Georgia Box' at Jax NAS, with the clam shell removed.

However, in order to protect the guilty I'll have to digress the story behind it... It's prolly better suited for the 'Stupid things I have done' thread anyway.

Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born...

[lucky508 0]

Quote

Some other info on the film,

http://www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/Mantz-P1.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n82nN_lqn58

Rapter,
Thanks for the additional info. I recently watched the movie again and wondered how the "Phoenix" was really made and flown. Unfortunately it's a tragic story.

ATW,
Cael

[377 22]

Quote

I got 'very' lucky and made 1 jump from 'Georgia Box' at Jax NAS, with the clam shell removed.

Man, sure would love to have that civililan C 119 (Georgia Box) in my jump log. Come on, tell us the story.

My rarest jumpship was the ATL 98 Carvair at Rantoul. Still no Connie jump but hoping for a miracle.

Somebody on dropzone.com paid a Soviet AF pilot to let him jump from a TU 95 Bear, kinda their B 52. This may be the all time rarest coolest jumpship logged by anyone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-95

A few on here also jumped from a civilian C 97 in Southern CA.

http://www.flyingboxcar.com/ I have not given up hope of eventually jumping from a C 119. These two Boxes are dormant but flyable in AK. My friend Lars Gleitsmann is connected to these two planes and has worked on them for years.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[JerryBaumchen 1,363]

Hi Guru,

Quote

The only good thing about getting old is that my stories keep getting better with each telling.

Now that's the truth. It is right up there with:

The older I get the better I was.



JerryBaumchen

[keithbar 1]

I may not be as good as i once was. but i'm as good as i ever was ONCE!

i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .

[jpgoggin 0]

My dad flew those planes in the 60s in Alaska for the Air Force. He once flew one all the way to the Fairchild factory for repairs with the gear down all the way just so he could go somewhere warm for a few days. When I started skydiving, he warned me never to get in a C-119. He said it was the scarriest machine he ever flew.

[377 22]

Quote

My dad flew those planes in the 60s in Alaska for the Air Force. He once flew one all the way to the Fairchild factory for repairs with the gear down all the way just so he could go somewhere warm for a few days. When I started skydiving, he warned me never to get in a C-119. He said it was the scarriest machine he ever flew.

Your Dad must have had a looooong flight from AK to FLA. The "dollar noneteen" (C 119) was no speed demon with the gear retracted. Gear down I'll bet there were some speeding cars that outpaced it as it flew over some isolated strectches of highway.

Somewhere online, perhaps on dropzone.com, there is a riverting true story about a civilian C 119 that ran into serious trouble (engine fire?) in AK. One of the crew bailed out really low and the pilots crash landed the plane successfully.

Nobody who flew, crewed or wrenched USAF or USMC C 119s ever refers to them as great planes. C 119 air tanker pilots were not overly fond of them either. The govt stopped contracting with C 119 fire tankers over safety concerns leaving HEMET Aviation in CA with a fleet of now useless tankers.

Opinions differ though. A few civilian 119s crashed in AK but AFAIK nobody ever died in one. My friend in AK who works on the two at Palmer loves them.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/c-119.htm

The late model 119s had the same basic engine as Lockheed Connies, the Wright R 3350, which was a tempermental high strung animal demanding very careful handling all the time.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[fossg 0]

I believe the C-119 is also called the "Widow maker"

[riggerrob 643]

" ... Somewhere online ... there is a riverting true story about a civilian C 119 that ran into serious trouble (engine fire?) in AK. One of the crew bailed out really low and the pilots crash landed the plane successfully. ..."

That crash is recounted in: "Jumping Fire, smokejumper's memoir of fighting wildfire" by Murry A. Taylor.

[poppenhager 1]

The Widow maker was the C-82 not the 119 which was a fine aircraft for what it was made for and for it's time.My Squadron (435th troop carrior)flew 10 million miles without a lose!

POP

[keithbar 1]

Quote

I believe the C-119 is also called the "Widow maker"

wasn't the b-26 the " widow maker" but i guess their have been numerous models with that nickname over the years.

i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .

[rapter 0]

The B-26 was the "Marauder". And then the "Invader"

Only the good die young, so I have found immortality,