SEREJumper 1 #1 June 16, 2009 One of my old rigs has Rocket Jet releases for the reserve. I did a search and didn't come up with any info on them here, Poynters gave some good info. Anyone have any old stories/ opinions on that type of release. Pros/Cons?We're not fucking flying airplanes are we, no we're flying a glorified kite with no power and it should be flown like one! - Stratostar Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutebuilder 0 #2 June 16, 2009 is it an old pioneer para twin?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #3 June 16, 2009 I remember being at the collegiate nationals in 79 or 80 and a couple guys had rigs with those on them...they said it was in case they were ever 'getting dragged' in high winds with the round reserve. Personally I couldn't then or now see having any kind of release on a reserve...just IN CASE! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SEREJumper 1 #4 June 16, 2009 Quoteis it an old pioneer para twin?? Well there goes another "name that container" thread! You are good, didn't even have to use a picture! Yes, it is a Pro (Professional) Para-Twin with the option of putting the reserve on the front or back. How many rigs back in the day had these releases, I'm guessing not that many.We're not fucking flying airplanes are we, no we're flying a glorified kite with no power and it should be flown like one! - Stratostar Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,362 #5 June 16, 2009 Hi SERE, I am not so sure that 'release' is the correct term for them. I would consider 'connection' to be more appropriate. They were not designed for any type of 'quick release' and they were designed for connecting things. They had some what of a 'life' in the sport gear but they could not compare to the 1 1/2 shots. Just my thoughts . . . . JerryBaumchen PS) I 2nd Twardo's thoughts. I mean, who wants to go 'Oops.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SEREJumper 1 #6 June 16, 2009 I hear you. Poynter's called them releases, but "connection" does seem to be a more fitting word. Considering that each of these connections has a lanyard with a cotter pin that secures the latch in the closed position as an (optional) safety wouldn't make it so much of a quick release either. So I guess my idea of a 3 ring release and cutaway pillow on the reserve of my modern gear isnt's a good idea either Back to the drawing board. We're not fucking flying airplanes are we, no we're flying a glorified kite with no power and it should be flown like one! - Stratostar Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 6 #7 June 17, 2009 So an original two-shot Capewell thingie, definitely not intended for cutting away, does not merit the term "release"? HW (I'll post a picture of the Para-Twin later. I remember seeing a few around back in the day -- but only a few.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybill 22 #8 June 17, 2009 Hi SERE, Rocket Jets! OK as long as they held. They started getting a bad rap when some of them released on the pressure of opening shock!! That's when the center lock pin got added. If you like those, try to find some Koch fittings and Frost Fittings!!SCR-2034, SCS-680 III%, Deli-out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SEREJumper 1 #9 June 17, 2009 Well I'm glad I have the updated ones I've had a chance while training pilots/aircrew on emergency egress to use with the Koch/ Koch 2 and Frost releases. The Koch 2nd generation is a nice design, but if I can remember right, they are ridiculously priced (as with anything sold to the govt.) We're not fucking flying airplanes are we, no we're flying a glorified kite with no power and it should be flown like one! - Stratostar Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #10 June 17, 2009 http://books.google.com/books?id=BKTuTXrXQu0C&pg=PA126&lpg=PA126&dq=Koch/+Koch+2+and+Frost+releases&source=bl&ots=n_qmxl8M2s&sig=6OJ-H552y6S6J07NBsIifRdRXyQ&hl=en&ei=1144Suz6KJiNtgfOi-jUDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4#PPA125,M1 Page 125 & 126 for rocket, koch etc. descriptions. ...you know - for the kids! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #11 June 17, 2009 I made a set of short risers with rocket jets in the middle with the intention of using them for intentional cutaways. Never did hook them up but still have them hanging around here. Used separable three ring harness rings instead. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krip 2 #12 June 17, 2009 Quote I remember being at the collegiate nationals in 79 or 80 and a couple guys had rigs with those on them...they said it was in case they were ever 'getting dragged' in high winds with the round reserve. Personally I couldn't then or now see having any kind of release on a reserve...just IN CASE! I can barely remember when we were getting started in 1068-69 in abilene tx when a guy had some kind of a reversable piggy back. The guy was very experienced ("back in the day") and tall enough to wear one of those long piggy back rigs. Anyway I still remember one day when he found out on the ground after a jump that his reseerve (back mounted) wasn't properly connected to his harness.If he had to use it on that jump he would have had a dual cutaway.I was younger and dumber than I am now so don't know/remember what the owner did to screw up with the critical connection. I guess the dude learned his lesson and continued to jump the rig until I moved on. Don't remember if he continued to switch the reserve from back to front and back but I doubt it. Thanks for the memoryOne Jump Wonder Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SEREJumper 1 #13 June 17, 2009 At least with the para-twin (and I'm sure it would be the same for any other interchangeable rig), you can't just interchange them at will, since the reserve risers when packed are only packed for either a bellymount or the pig rig. If it was hooked up the wrong way, the worst that would happen would be that the reserve/ steering would be backwards. Thats not so bad right . We're not fucking flying airplanes are we, no we're flying a glorified kite with no power and it should be flown like one! - Stratostar Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krip 2 #14 June 17, 2009 Quote At least with the para-twin (and I'm sure it would be the same for any other interchangeable rig), you can't just interchange them at will, since the reserve risers when packed are only packed for either a bellymount or the pig rig. If it was hooked up the wrong way, the worst that would happen would be that the reserve/ steering would be backwards. Thats not so bad right . Hi SERE sorry I wasn't clearWhen I was explaining the dude connected the risers the wrong way to the harness it was a lot worse than backwardsIf he had to use the reserve in the air it would have disconnected from the harnessIf I remember correctly the reserve container was connected to the main container on the back with a zipper. incorrect riser connection the zipper would only keep the containers connected. Might have been a pioneer product, maybe designed for doing intentional main cutaways, so two reserves were required. Sorry it was a long time ago, even have trouble remembering the really good timesJust like it did on the groundOne Jump Wonder Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 6 #15 June 17, 2009 Quote I can barely remember when we were getting started in 1068-69 in abilene tx Wow, that's really 'back in the day'. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lekstrom10k 0 #16 June 17, 2009 I recall the main purpose of them was to leave thr container in the fighter jet as part of the ejection seat. the pilot would crawl up into his with a harness on. his crew wpuld snap him up with the risres sticking out of the seat. after the flight he would get unsnapped and on his way. Connie Crowton went to now Archway in IL. to get certified as a Para-Plane dealer in late 60's or early 70's. The training first jump altitude was 7500, he only got about 2500and went anyway. The rig had rocket jet ejectors on the main risers he said he new everything right up until he bounced. Bluffing doesnt always make it a good judgement call Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piper17 1 #17 June 17, 2009 Jim Bates had one IIRC...back in the day!"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutebuilder 0 #18 June 17, 2009 WOW you remember old conrad crowton!he was jumping dick morgans personal gear on that jump.morgan didnt have rocket jets tho( i cant recall at the moment what they were,but they werent r.j's.i will look at my old pictures i have of ol tricky dick and see if can recall what they were.)after snyder and morgan got back to jersey, ed callahan had the task of cleaning morgans gear.afterward, morgan sold the reserve to some other local jumper.everytime it was used , a suspension line would break.i guess body fluids do damage to nylon over time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BCA 1 #19 June 17, 2009 Harry Johnston, a master rigger back in the day from Phoenix actually built a harness using rocket jets as a replacement for the main capewells. He must have had a tso or waiver, because several people used that setup for several years. As a matter of fact, Floyd Glover used that setup at both the 67 and 69 nationals. BTW, he was national accuracy champ in 67 and was also on the 69 US Team. BCA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #20 June 17, 2009 Quote I made a set of short risers with rocket jets in the middle with the intention of using them for intentional cutaways. Never did hook them up but still have them hanging around here. Used separable three ring harness rings instead. Long ago when I was experimenting with building my own canopies, I made a front-mount cutaway container and used Rocket Jets to attach it to a standard Wonderhog. On the day I got a baglock, I surprised myself by how quickly I was able to operate those releases."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #21 June 17, 2009 Good to know. I never jumped mine. I was kind of chicken because I didn't know anyone who had actually cut away with them in the air. Also, one had the milling just a little bit off and wouldn't slide out on it's own when released. I'm sure it would have come apart in the air but always wanted to change out that one. Have a replacement but didn't have access to a harness machine to redo them for many years.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,362 #22 June 17, 2009 Hi howard and all of the rest of you, Quote does not merit the term "release"? My thinking ( not always appropriate ) is that is today's vernacular, 'release' would mean something to quickly release. With 'quickly' being subject to definition. Those old 2-shot Capewell fittings definitely would not meet today's idea of 'quick.' IIRC ( and don't count on it ), Pioneer's Para-Twin dual backpack rig ( first reversable piggy back rig ) used the Rocket Jets to attach the reserve risers to the harness. This was the first rig in which the reserve container could be mounted on the back and/or the front. I think it first appeared ( other than with the Army Team ) with the '68 US Team. Gary Lewis out of Seattle used it with that team where most of the other members used the Chute Shop MiniSystem. Also, the containers were held to the backpad via zippers which allowed you to mount the main container higher up on your back when you had the reserve in the front. The story 'in the day' was this concept was to beat Security's patent on a back-mounted reserve container. When Security patented their back-mounted reserve they patented it for mounting above the main container, on either side of the main container & below the main container. Apparently Pioneer's 'removeable' reserve container got around the patent ( I am not an attorney ). We only had one local guy with one & to solve the reserve on backwards problem, he assembled the reserve so it was on sideways; facing left or right if mounted on the front & vice-versa if mounted on the back. Hey, it was a 'solution.' Later Security came out with a version in which you could mount the reserve on the back or chest. The reserve risers were attached to the container with D-rings & snaps. It also had zippers to relocate the main container on the backpad. The Pioneer Para-Twin had a short life in the sport. One reason was their failure to offer colors as Security had been doing since '64; and as the Chute Shop & Strong started offering in about '70 or so. So that is how I remember things; maybe correctly & maybe not. JerryBaumchen PS) Back about '67 or so there was a rumor that Loy Brydon had been working on some type of quick riser release using Rocket Jets. As the story went, he installed them on the harness upside down & upon opening the main went bye-bye. Sometimes things work & sometimes they don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krip 2 #23 June 17, 2009 Quote Quote I can barely remember when we were getting started in 1068-69 in abilene tx Wow, that's really 'back in the day'. HW Hi HW Today will be "back in the day" tomorrow. reallyOne Jump Wonder Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutebuilder 0 #24 June 18, 2009 TORNADO releases... thats what dick morgan had on his rig.similar to rocket jets except you had 2 sliding thingies instead of one . 2x more complicated than rocket jets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #25 June 18, 2009 Quote Quote Quote I can barely remember when we were getting started in 1068-69 in abilene tx Wow, that's really 'back in the day'. HW Hi HW Today will be "back in the day" tomorrow. really I thought that was 'yesterday'?! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
