Cotton chest reserve pack tray/container?

[lucky508 0]

My question is this: Does having a cotton chest reserve container change the repack cycle to 60 days if the rest of the parachute is composed of synthetic fiber?


http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFinalRule.nsf/0/659c44c7eed60e33862575440074ec0d!OpenDocument

Sec. 91.307 Parachutes and parachuting.

(a) No pilot of a civil aircraft may allow a parachute that is available for emergency use to be carried in that aircraft unless it is an approved type and has been packed by a certificated and appropriately rated parachute rigger--

(1) Within the preceding 180 days, if its canopy, shrouds, and harness are composed exclusively of nylon, rayon, or other similar synthetic fiber or materials that are substantially resistant to damage from mold, mildew, or other fungi and other rotting agents propagated in a moist environment; or
(2) Within the preceding 60 days, if any part of the parachute is composed of silk, pongee, or other natural fiber or materials not specified in paragraph (a)(1) of this section.


Thanks,
Cael

[lucky508 0]

I've gotten the same answer from two master riggers within the hour.

Nylon parachute requirement for 180 day cycle address's ONLY the CANOPY, (Canopy, Lines & Harness it attaches to), NOT the Pack Tray.

case closed.

Thanks,
CK

[sprtdth 0]

Quote

Nylon parachute requirement for 180 day cycle address's ONLY the CANOPY, (Canopy, Lines & Harness it attaches to), NOT the Pack Tray.

What if the free sleeve is made of silk, pongee or other natural fiber?

CRW Skies
Frank
CRW Diva #58

[councilman24 37]

And what free sleeve are you thinking of? I only know of one and it's nylon. But both part 91 and 105 specifically state "canopy, shrouds and harness" so I guess the pilot chute can be silk.

But I do have a cotton chest container I was thinking of putting together.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[patworks 5]

Hummn, Are you talking about sport jumping? Cotton chest packs are rare and seldom seen -- you are probably talking pre WWII gear? .... Ain't no group of folks ever jumped a sleeve of any flavor on a chest pack. Belly mount openings suck and hurt. Your heels can imprint your helmet. For belly mounts, I guess that a sleeve flavor deployment device didn't make sense in the 1940 + period when they were carried + used for flight crews. Besides, I think you'd have a hard time getting a sleeve and a flat canopy to fit into a chest container. Sport parachutists even removed the spider pilot chutes from chest mounts. Enlighten me.

Why would one want to retard the deployment of a round-flat-circular emergency deceleration device by adding a sleeve?

But, I’m a jumper; not a rigger. B-1575, I still can’t pack for shit. Dumb old fart who actually thinks that having a reserve repacked years ago is good to go.

Pat Works nee Madden Travis Works, Jr .B1575, C1798, D1813, Star Crest Solo#1, USPA#189,

[howardwhite 6]

FWIW, this rig was jumped last year. The reserve container is ca. 1952. The master rigger who packed it placed a 60-day limitation because of cotton components in the container.
And, no, you wouldn't use a sleeve in it.

HW

[pchapman 279]

You're right that sleeves & old reserves don't normally mix, but the same question on repack cycles could be extended to apply to main canopies.

After all, don't the repack cycle times applies to mains too, in FAA-land? So someone could be interested whether technically their Paracommander main is illegal to jump in the spring after sitting 60+ days with a cotton sleeve that is attached to it.

Actually I had wondered about that myself.

[howardwhite 6]

Quote

Sec. 105.43

Use of single-harness, dual-parachute systems.

No person may conduct a parachute operation using a single-harness, dual-parachute system, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow any person to conduct a parachute operation from that aircraft using a single-harness, dual-parachute system, unless that system has at least one main parachute, one approved reserve parachute, and one approved single person harness and container that are packed as follows:
[(a) The main parachute must have been packed within 180 days before the date of its use by a certificated parachute rigger, the person making the next jump with that parachute, or a non-certificated person under the direct supervision of a certificated parachute rigger.]

(b) The reserve parachute must have been packed by a certificated parachute rigger--
[(1) Within 180 days before the date of its use, if its canopy, shroud, and harness are composed exclusively of nylon, rayon, or similar synthetic fiber or material that is substantially resistant to damage from mold, mildew, and other fungi, and other rotting agents propagated in a moist environment; or]
(2) Within 60 days before the date of its use, if it is composed of any amount of silk, pongee, or other natural fiber, or material not specified in paragraph (b)(1) of this section.
(c) If installed, the automatic activation device must be maintained in accordance with manufacturer instructions for that automatic activation device.


Amdt. 105-13, Eff. 12/19/08

So, what is it? Is the container included?

HW

[sprtdth 0]

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So, what is it? Is the container included?

Exactly. Parts 91 and 105 tell you what is included, but, not what is excluded.

I have packed French made chest mount with a free sleeve. It was about the size of a Navy Q.A.C. I've also packed French and Russian seat packs with free sleeves and, if memory serves me right, they are cotton. I'll double check.

As for a sleeve in a T-7 type, I think I'll pass

CRW Skies
Frank
CRW Diva #58

[lucky508 0]

my question was about military chest reserves like the one Howard posted the pic of. It's intresting to see where this thread has gone. I never new any type of reserves had a sleeve. did the sleeve for reserves morph into the diaper?

CK

[NovaTTT 2]

Quote

So, what is it? Is the container included?

HW

It, being the "reserve parachute", can be reasonably interepreted to mean the entire reserve system - harness, container, ripcord, parachute. Although specific parts of the system are identified in the FARs, the local FAA Investigator will be the one to define it - and that definition will vary from FAA-I to FAA-I, from FSDO to FSDO.

So, IMO, it comes down to the individual rigger. If you as a rigger are comfortable giving a 180 day stamp to the cotton chest container, it can be interpreted in the FARs as A-OK.

But it appears to be A-OK to give 180 days to a silk PC as well.

I guess it comes down to: What are the chances the shit will hit the fan on this? Probably not very likely to come up, but if it does, your actions are going to be scrutinized the the FAA-I who may or may not understand parachute rigging and/or regs and may or may not look favourably upon skydiving in general.

Always best in my book to be teflon-coated, ie, no grey area judgments. My personal practice? 60 days if any part of the certificated system is constructed of natural fiber material.

.02

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[patworks 5]

As to rigging, I practice a subtle mixture of oblivion and carelessness as a life long jump ethic. So, I for one an REALLY glad that someone pays close attention to these things. Keep it up. (Keep me up too)

Pat Works nee Madden Travis Works, Jr .B1575, C1798, D1813, Star Crest Solo#1, USPA#189,

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Quote

It, being the "reserve parachute", can be reasonably interepreted to mean the entire reserve system - harness, container, ripcord, parachute. Although specific parts of the system are identified in the FARs, the local FAA Investigator will be the one to define it - and that definition will vary from FAA-I to FAA-I, from FSDO to FSDO...



...Always best in my book to be teflon-coated, ie, no grey area judgments. My personal practice? 60 days if any part of the certificated system is constructed of natural fiber material.

.02

I was told (by a master rigger/DPRE) that any part of the certificated system being "natural material" locks it into a 60-day cycle. The really cool looking leather containers fit this definition too.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[sprtdth 0]

Quote

did the sleeve for reserves morph into the diaper?

I don't think so. In Europe and the former U.S.S.R. many still use free sleeves in their ejection seats.

If I recall correctly, Hank Achuitto and Ted Strong were the first to put diapers on round reserves in the late 70's.

CRW Skies
Frank
CRW Diva #58

[sprtdth 0]

Quote

I was told (by a master rigger/DPRE) that any part of the certificated system being "natural material" locks it into a 60-day cycle. The really cool looking leather containers fit this definition too

I'm of this mind set also

CRW Skies
Frank
CRW Diva #58

[JerryBaumchen 1,362]

Hi joe,

Quote

I was told (by a master rigger/DPRE)

Please remember that this person ( unless employed by one of them ) does not speak for the FAA or the mfr.

JerryBaumchen