First Aid Kit

[PhreeZone 20]

I know at my DZ there is me , Wilderness first responder training (Had to get it to go backpacking years ago), 2 former Military EMT's and a few others trained in first aid. With proper training I see no problems with having the person packaged up when the pros arrive. There was a single engine plane crash last year at the DZ, we HAD to extract him because the plane was leaking fuel and even though the engine was off, it could spark easily. A half board worked perfect to pop him out of the cockpit. With the Half board and a full board we had him ready to pop in the ambulance when it finally showed up, no waiting another 15 minutes to extract him. 15 minutes can be the difference if you hook it in....
Cause I don't wanna come back down from this cloud... ~ Bush

[billvon 2,998]

>With proper training I see no problems with having the person packaged up when
> the pros arrive. There was a single engine plane crash last year at the DZ, we
> HAD to extract him because the plane was leaking fuel and even though the
> engine was off, it could spark easily. A half board worked perfect to pop him out
> of the cockpit.
You're talking about two different things.
If someone isn't breathing, or they are in imminent danger of immolation, all other considerations are secondary. It's much better to be alive and paralyzed than to be dead with an intact spine, and thus you move them no matter what.
This in no way makes it a better idea to move someone if their life is not in danger. Unless you are trained and current for that sort of rescue, and you have trained and current assistants, and you have all the equipment you would normally need to be able to move someone with minimal risk, you will be better off acting as a first responder and making sure he lives until more qualified help arrives.
The desire to "Do something! Anything!" is the single most dangerous desire to an injured jumper. I've seen people's helmets wrestled off so they could "breathe easier", people's spines "cleared" by navy jumpers who took a two-hour first aid course, and people's rigs and jumpsuits yanked off by well-meaning jumpers trying to save their gear. And for the most part, those people have been lucky. 80% of the time, their spines were stable, and they were fine. The other 20% would have died no matter what, and at worst their mishandling meant they died with one more thing wrong with them.
Most jumpers are alpha personalities, and the idea that they have to just stand there and do nothing while their friend is in pain is very hard to take. I've had a total of about 80 hours of training, from PADI medic training to spending time in a trauma bay to (unfortunately) direct experience with about a dozen skydiving injuries from compound fractures to two-man CPR on someone whose airway was full of holes. And rather than my experience telling me what to do, 80% of the time its value lies in what it tells me _not_ to do. And not doing anything is very, very hard, especially when you know them and have a little medical knowledge, but often holding back is absolutely critical. Heck, my girlfriend is an orthopedic surgeon, and she sees her role in a similar light - to keep someone alive until help gets there, not to "package" them for the rescue team.
>15 minutes can be the difference if you hook it in....
Again, if their life is in danger, that takes priority over everything else. If they are breathing, their airway is clear, they're not bleeding too much . . . you'll do them a lot of good by watching them rather than trying to treat them. There will always be cases where a qualified paramedic, a qualified EMT or two, and the right equipment is in the right place at the right time, and if that happens, great. But unless you're 100% sure all that's in place, the victim will be better served by first responders than less-than-100% qualified paramedics.
-bill von

[freeflir29 0]

Amen Billvon!!! My one experience with a nasty skydiving injury I did what I should have. I let the trained medic take care of the guy and only did what he told me. Other than trying to get the fire out....
"I only have a C license, so I don't know shit..right?"-Clay

[skymedic 0]

Quote

Again, if their life is in danger, that takes priority over everything else. If they are breathing, their airway is clear, they're not bleeding too much . . . you'll do them a lot of good by watching them rather than trying to treat them. There will always be cases where a qualified paramedic, a qualified EMT or two, and the right equipment is in the right place at the right time, and if that happens, great. But unless you're 100% sure all that's in place, the victim will be better served by first responders than less-than-100% qualified paramedics.

umm...if I am hurt....I want a paramedic there...even if he doesn't have the tools to do what he is trained he can tell people to NOT do what they might do to further my injury....
I have seen too many stupid EMT's and First responders fuck up WAY too many things to trust too many of them...there are some great one's out there...and many are my friends...problem is most EMT's and First Responders are not current.....Most Paramedics ARE....
Anyone and I mean anyone can become an EMT....but stepping up to the paramedic level is a HUGE difference....especialy when you step up to the Flight level which is my specialty....
marc
BSBD

[billvon 2,998]

>But unless you're 100% sure all that's in place, the victim will be
>better served by first responders than less-than-100% qualified paramedics.
>umm...if I am hurt....I want a paramedic there..
Of course - we all would. Heck, I want a trauma surgeon there too. But I may not have been clear above. If there is someone with significant medical training, he or she will nearly always be better off acting as a first responder (i.e. someone trained to keep someone alive until help gets there) than acting as a paramedic (i.e. someone trained to perform rescues, victim transport and the like.) The more training he has, the better - but that doesn't necessarily mean he should try to _do_ more.
-bill von

[skymedic 0]

Thank you for the clarification....I will do all that I can...up to the point that I will never do any harm....I have my tools that I need with me at all times...
marc
BSBD