Wingsuit ban

[Skwrl 56]

For a presentation I'm working on...

What year did the PCA ban wingsuits? (The block of text I found on it was “No wings, cloth extensions, or other forms of control surfaces may be used without written authorization from the main office of the PCA.”)

When did the PCA (or was it USPA?) remove the ban?

Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

[chuteless 1]

I don't think they removed it. They just woke up to the fact that wingsuits are a reality....like base jumping.

[drjump 0]

I think the original wording said something to the effect of: No extensions below the elbow, or below the knees. The reasoning was to allow the jumper to be able to bend the elbow for ripcord pull. Early 70's late 60's.

[wmw999 2,451]

I seem to recall something about rigid extensions, too. I wasn't contemporaneous with that, but I asked about wingsuits and that's what I heard.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[riggerrob 643]

I cannot give you an exact date.
Just remember that first generation (1920s to 1970s) wingsuits killed many of their users: Leo Valentine, Clem Sohn, etc.

Only post-2000 wingsuits were simple enough for the general skydiving population to survive.

[drjump 0]

Just bout the time Gipsy(sp) Moths movie hit the big screen.

[JerryBaumchen 1,364]

Hi Skwrl,

I made my first jump in early '64 and the ban was in place at that time.

JerryBaumchen

[377 22]

Anyone remember Sheridan "Pete" Peterson D2024? He built a wingsuit with (canvas?) wings and jumped it during the ban. I think he got into some hassle with the PCA or his jump club over it.

The FBI thought he was DB Cooper and long long after the hijack came by to get a DNA swab from him.

He had a pretty decent DB Cooper qualifed resume' but his DNA ruled him out I guess. Pete was a former USFS smoke jumper, skydiver with night jumps and a Marine WW2 combat vet.

Pete worked in tech publications at Boeing when they rolled out the 727. Boeing had done flight tests with the rear stairs deployed but they were not publicized at all. When Cooper jumped very few knew that a 727 was jumpable. Air America did some test jumps (S/L) from a 727 over Thailand during the Viet Nam war. As far as I know 727 jumps didnt happen again until Don Kirlin got the idea for WFFC.



Air America 727 jump film:

http://www.dropzone.com/videos/Detailed/1130.html

Pete looked a lot like the FBI Cooper sketch too. He had a huge grudge against the US Govt over atrocities against civilians. He had seen these atrocities in Viet Nam where he worked as a refugee specialist.

The FBI has a partial DNA sample from Cooper's tie (left onboard the NWA 727). It's apparently not enough to ID Cooper, but it can rule out suspects who dont match.

Pete is still kicking. In 1997 He made a jump in Beijing China at age 71. He is now 85 and lives in CA.

http://www.smartvoter.org/2006/11/07/ca/sn/vote/peterson_s/paper3.html

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[DBCOOPER 5]

Did they have dna testing during that time frame?

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[SkydiveJack 1]

Just for historical accuracy, the term back then was Bat Wings not Wingsuits.

[skr 1]

> What year did the PCA ban wingsuits?

I vaguely remember this ban in the 60s,
but don't recall anybody paying much attention
to it.

I jumped a lot at Taft in the 60s and I remember
Lyle Cameron, Don Molitar, and Red Grant, and
others whose names I'm spacing.

I remember Lyle one day jumping a big, rectangular
piece of plastic - not rigid, but like heavy shower
curtain with loops in the corners.

He taped his feet into the bottom two loops
and held the top two in his hands, and we
all went up in Art's 185 and jumped out.


To me the really interesting guy was Tom Sitton.

Tom was this mad genius who designed his wings
on the big computers at Hughes Aircraft.

They had a top and bottom surface.

There was a metal frame inside with heavy canvas
like stuff stretched really tight over the frame.

There was a hinge on each side where the leading
edge met the frame your body rested in so he could
rotate them down parallel with his body so he could
get in and out of the Beech.

It was a pretty big wingspan - you couldn't rotate
them all the way down standing on the ground
because the tips would hit the ground.

The hinges and leading edges met your body
several inches below your armpits, and there
were small handles on the top surface to rotate
them into position once you were out.

There was also a set of tail feathers between his legs.

The whole thing weighted 40 or 50 lbs.


I really wanted to jump them and tried them on
and practiced quite a few times, but I was too scared
to do it.

Tom did a lot of other really far out stuff, too.

He was an interesting guy.

Skr

[timmyfitz 0]

Quote

Did they have dna testing during that time frame?

Practical DNA testing began in the eighties. The first case to use DNA testing to prove someones innocent was in 86. No DNA testing in 71 during DB's jump.

[pchapman 279]

In Canada, the bat-wing ban existed by 1958. Without knowing the true answer to the original question, this suggests the ban might well have existed in the US that early as well.

I get the impression that when a national Canadian parachuting organization got started, when they were trying to come up with a formal list of rules, they relied heavily on prior experience, and thus on rules from the USA. (This was actually from talking to a founder of the organization today!)

I've got a reprint of the 1958 rules of the Parachute Club of Canada (PCC), which was later renamed the Canadian Sport Parachuting Association. The PCC was first formed in 1956.

The relevant BSR stated:

"13. Parachute descents shall not be made with the use of bat-wings or similar devices."

[quade 4]

Guys, let's keep the Cooper stuff where it belongs and not pollute other threads with it. I know it's tough when talking about certain folks. Mention it if you have to, but keep that actual discussion and inevitable thread drift over there in the Cooper thread.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[skyh2omedic 0]

wow-noce article-looks like he really lived. kudos to anyone who gets to experience life like that. I'd buy him a jump in a nano second

"You can't teach what you don't know and you can't lead where you won't go"

[377 22]

His personal and skydiving history is remarkable. I have tried to contact him but he doesn't reply to my emails. I too would love to buy him a coached jump. I'd like to hear more about his early jumping exploits. That bat wing stuff he did was off the hook.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[steve1 5]

In the mid 70's there was a lot of rumors concerning jumping with wings. One story was that, if your wings were too big, you could break both arms. Another story was that you might not be able to reach your rip-cord, with those "big ole" wings flapping. Those stories convinced most of us not to mess with death.....

We had a four way team in about 75. We decided we were going to go to the Collegiate Nationals that year. That was when you didn't have to be good to go. We all bought farmer coveralls so we would match. Being from Montana this made sense to us. We figured it would be a great way to get attention!

Those were the days when everyone was going to these huge jump suits for R.W. I'd try to jump with others, on a bigger load, in my nifty looking coveralls, and I was going low nearly every jump. This is back in the days when most of us had only one jump suit. So, I ended up sewing some mini wings, under my arms and in the crotch.

It sounded great on paper, but I never could fly very well like that, (for R.W). That's the closest I've ever come to jumping a wing suit....

[wmw999 2,451]

Quote

We all bought farmer coveralls so we would match. Being from Montana this made sense to us. We figured it would be a great way to get attention!

Did you have a sheep as your logo

My first jumpsuit was made from jeans with massive amounts of fabric inserted, and two pieces of fabric fashioned into a fairly rudimentary big-sleeved jacket. In baby blue pique fabric, no less

I, too, was a stellar fashion statement.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[chuteless 1]

These are the kind of guys that made skydiving a great sport, even though they were not participating in it as a " sport".

These are the same type of people that some USPA and CSPA people want to restrict...because they might get killed .

Don't do this...don't do that.....don't jump wings....don't don't don't......and whatever you do, don't encourage anyone else to do it.

Nuts!!!!

That is part of this sport/game, whether you like it or not and it always will be.

To try to stop people like these, is a waste of time. Sit back and watch if you don't want to participate....and let the adventures roll on.


( Take a read of the other thread called " DON'T Don't Don't "

Bill Cole D-41

[steve1 5]

]Did you have a sheep as your logo

.

That would have been a great idea! I guess we were too slow to think of that.... I did have my SCR and SCS sewn on though. That was big doings back then....

[1888 0]

I started jumping in 61 & believe the ban was in place then.

[howardwhite 6]

From the SIM:

Quote

In 1987, the USPA Board removed the batwing rule from the USPA Basic Safety Requirements, since jumpers had long since stopped using the devices and since camera flyers were using a variation to improve maneuverability in head-high attitudes.

Now that I have a date to focus on, I can see if there's more in the magazine.

HW