New DZ Briefings

[Hooknswoop 19]

What does everyone look for, check on and do when going to a new DZ? Landing area, obstacles, etc. This started in Swooping and canopy control under "Dealing w/ Traffic". Kind of a new DZ checklist for jumpers.
Hook

[quade 4]

Ok, this is going to sound weird, but the -first- thing I want to know about when I visit a dropzone is the camera step and handles! ;^)
After that I want to know about;
Exit procedures -- lights and their meanings. Red means open the damn door. Green mean I have permission to go? Red again means I -can't- go? If the camera flyer is out when the red light comes back on our team still exits -- RIGHT!!!????
Exit order -- you mean this might be different than my home DZ? RW then freefly?
Local hazards -- trees, powerlines. Can I see an aerial photo?
Normal landing pattern -- right traffic landing north -- left traffic landing south? East? West?
No wind prefered landing direction? South to north?
Where is the prefered area for hook turns? That swoop pond?
Alternate/student landing area -- where is it and what's the traffic pattern there?
No wind prefered landing direction.
Any emergency hand signals? After biffing-in but still able to walk just fine -- stand up and join hands over head (aka the dickhead signal). Raise one arm over head and point at dust devils. Wave both arms over head for ambulance.
Can ya get me on the next load?
quade
http://futurecam.com

[MarkM 0]

Find the DZ's areal photo, scope out the landing area, learn where the nearby powerlines are, other hazards, etc.
Then on the ride up I look out the window and compare what I see then to what I saw and planned around earlier.

[freeflir29 0]

How does manifesting work? Jump tickets, money on my account, rigging services, raft dives, naked jumps, beer fridge, sleeping arrangements, which chics are single.....I may think of more later...Now....If there were only a "standard" briefing form for DZ's to use.....Oh I know...That's crazy talk.
"I only have 133 jumps, so I don't know shit..right?"-Clay

[AggieDave 6]

Personally, I check the areal photos for a general idea of the layout, looking for outs for landings, etc.
After that, it's questions about:
manifest proceedures (different @ diff places)
Landing pattern/areas/dangerous spots (weird wind spots)
Exit order
I had never heard of the biffed landing hand signals thing before, is that pretty common?
"I said don't look Ethel, It was too late, she'd already been incensed... "

[MarkM 0]

"manifest proceedures (different @ diff places)"
Oh yeah, forgot about that one. At my current DZ I walked up to manifest last weekend, asked about getting on a load and was looked at like a moron "you gotta talk to your instructor about that".
Geez. At my old DZ any damn fool could throw a student out of a plane on its way to altitude.... you just manifested up.

[Hooknswoop 19]

Heck, I walked up to manifest at DZ I had jumped at before and tried to manifest to do a hop and pop. The manifest chick said I needed to do get w/ an instructor. I tried to explain to her that I had done a hop and pop before and that it was OK, but she refused to listen to me. I finally had an instructor friend of mine, (who was trying not to laugh), tell her that it was OK for me to do an un-supervised solo hop and pop. I don't think she ever figured out that I had over 2700 jumps............
Hook

[MarkM 0]

Quote

I don't think she ever figured out that I had over 2700 jumps............

LOL. But dude, you need a USPA coach to supervise if you've never done a Hop and Pop before...

[quade 4]

Quote

I had never heard of the biffed landing hand signals thing before, is that pretty common?

It's what we use at Perris.
quade
http://futurecam.com

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

I always find a free instructor or someone and ask them to give me a brief - it's the best way i feel.
You shouldn't put a knife in the toaster - but you're an adult now !!!

[Kelly 0]

When I get to a new dz to jump:
~~ I like to be some what familiar with the dz. Thats why i went to eloy when i still wasnt Completely ready to jump again~ i wanted to get comfortable. Same reason why i sat out on the first day of jumping that i was at zhills.
~~Watch landings, try to get a feel for how people fly.
~~ I walk the landing area to get a feel for its oddities, to see how big the obstacles actually are.
~~I ask about the best outs, the worst outs, the only outs.
~~I search for obstacles; locating powerlines, observing non dz air traffic, obstancles that might blend in.
~~I ask if there is set direction with no wind.
~~Whats the highest pull alti w/out informing manifest, pilot and other jumpers.
~~Exit order.
~~Usual time to altitude. will i be in a speed freak or slow ass plane?
~~elevation because it effects my landings.
~~I identify objects that will orient me to the dz such as construction sites near by etc etc.
~~I listen to the calls. do they give 20,10,5 minute calls? or...
~~Check out the wind socks see if any of them are squirrley (maybe due to turbulance or whatever)
~~where are the farmer mcnasties?
~~if i land out at X area, where should I wait for a ride? sometimes theres a little road or even a quick trail back to the dz so they usually dont pick ya up.
~~Minimum altitude for crossing the runway.. Do the planes set up higher patterns for longer runways? This might put my normal "no crossing" alti at risk for air traffic from planes.
~~what other aircraft are there? balloons? hangliders? no engine planes? aircraft (including parachutes) have a place in the "right of way" order... its in the SIMS somewhere i think.
~~In the boarding area i identify the Instructor, coach etc etc.. who will be in charge (besides the pilot) in case of an emergency? I want to know.
~~Areas known for squirrley wind conditions? (learned that when Lisa G. went in over a known turbulant area)
~~Check out arial photos. are they updated? anything new that isnt on that map? cross keys has a field to the north that is now a development.. dont want to plan on that out thinking its all clear area when its not anymore.
~~I also let manifest know that Im an emergency medical tech... you never know who's going to need help. Plus, its better for somebody to know that youre not running up to the person who biffed in b/c you want to get a look but cause you can actually provide adequate care to them..
i cant think of anymore but there are still some. Im still so knew that i try to find out everything I can possibly think of.
i also do a solo for my first jump, pull high.
funny story: jumping at eloy. pulling high so im the last out. we do 2 passes.. its my turn. i get in the door and the red light comes on. i go to sit back down & the pilot starts yelling "Exit! GO!" so i get the hell out.. he found me later and apologized. told me that with only one jumper still in the plane, plus the fact he knew i was pulling high anyway he didnt want to have to do a 3rd pass. NO worries. if im last out i can get out on a long spot.. cause i can comfortably pull higher than normal (not to high, but still higher).
that ended up being one of the best sit exits ive ever had. i just jumped out, threw myself into a sit.. pretty sweet actually.
http://kel197.tripod.com/skydivefriendsTRIPOD/

[MarkM 0]

Shit girl, I'd be too hung over to manage all of that.
How about they just pop open the door at altitude and point to where the airport is?

[AndyMan 7]

What kelly just posted, to me is ridiculous overkill.
I've not going to sit by manifest on a perfectly good saturday and watching people jump all day. If that makes me irresponsible, so be it. My mother says it's it's irresponsible to jump out of airplanes.
Now I don't want to sound like I've got a deathwish, and I don't want to sound like I don't take safety seriously. I do.
But this is just stupid.
I've jumped at a lot of different DZ's in my relatively short history. I don't pretend to be a guru of any sorts in this sport, but I think I do know enough to keep me safe.
Here's my list:
Landing pattern. Left hand is standard.
Known areas of turbulence. (often obvious, but I still ask.)
Known hazards (ditto)
Good outs. What are good alternatives? (show me a photo)
Landing direction in no wind, if applicable.
Exit order.
Some of these, like exit order, I ask on the way to the plane.
Now granted that I jump in the northern US, and that usually means there's lots of outs. I don't think the above list is too short. Others may disagree.
Fact is, I'm here to have FUN. Me sitting on the ground being a safety nazi isn't fun. I didn't drive two hours to a dropzone on a weekend to watch people jump. If I wanted to do something completely safe I'd take up golfing. It's all about balance.
I don't think I'm being irresponsible or dangerous either.
_Am
ICQ: 5578907
MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com
Yahoo IM: ametcalf_1999

[AggieDave 6]

AndyMan, I totally agree with you, but their is a catch. Do *you* as the jumper feel safe? Kelly (and other people) may need those things in order to feel safe, where as you, I and some others can take the shorter list and get the info that we need to be safe for ourselves and safe for the other jumpers.
When you really get down to it, skydiving is very personal journey..."I said don't look Ethel, It was too late, she'd already been incensed... "

[Kelly 0]

andyman: Number of Jumps: 300
Kelly: Number of Jumps: 67
I think thats explanation enough. I explained myself so that newer jumpers have a better understanding of why i do what i do.. hell, maybe ill mention something that somebody didnt think of before and just might save their ass one day. Next time ill just type incomplete sentances so i dont 'overkill' a topic.

Quote

But this is just stupid.

seriously reconsider saying this to a low low timer like myself. it might me the difference between them speaking up in the future or keeping their mouths shut.
You do as you do, but like you said, some of these things can be done on the way to the plane, some can be found out by talking to friends before you get to a new dz. and the other stuff, well, i can walk the landing area while watching the windsocks, seeing what aircraft are coming in and out and watching landings. killing a few birds with one stone (missed load). It doesnt take more than a couple of loads to do what ive mentioned w/ the exception of sitting out normally the first day. But hey, thats my choice. i dont work outside of the dz, i can afford to go on vacations to dropzones for a week or so of vacation.. So my DZ time isnt as restricted as most peoples. I can take my time and really sort shit out.
im done defending myself.
http://kel197.tripod.com/skydivefriendsTRIPOD/

[billvon 2,989]

>What kelly just posted, to me is ridiculous overkill.
>Now I don't want to sound like I've got a deathwish, and I don't want to sound like I don't take safety seriously. I do.
>But this is just stupid.
Gotta disagree there. For someone planning to open at 5000 feet, knowing whether that's an issue is important. It could be fatal at some places (Quincy for example.) For someone who can barely walk (i.e. arthritis, bad back) knowing how to get back to the airport after a long spot can be really important. For someone who just got a much smaller canopy, knowing elevation can be critical, especially if there's no wind. (If you don't believe this, watch jumpers new to Lost Prairie trying to land on a no-wind day.)
They may be overkill for _you_, but they are by no means dumb questions.
-bill von

[AndyMan 7]

Quote

They may be overkill for _you_, but they are by no means dumb questions.

I suppose I was a little harsh.
I went to great lengths to frame what I said in the context of my personal opinion. Not fact.
Despite your very valid point, I can't imagine any point in my skydiving history where I would ask those many question.
I remember the first time I showed up at a foreign DZ. It was Skydive Toronto, and I had 20 jumps. I didn't even have a USPA 'A'. I'll never forget Joe Chow calling up my instructor asking if he should let me jump. I'll say a lot of nasty things about Joe Chow, but I'll never hold that against him. I had Joe show me an overhead map, he showed me the outs, he explained to me turbulence caused by the barn, and that I should avoid landing on the runway. He then criticizedme for flaring late on his burnt out 20 year old Mantas. I thought it was a perfectly good landing...
Maybe it's because that of all the DZ's I've jumped at (about 14, which I supose isn't that much), I've alway been fortunate to be at DZ's that have lots of good outs and big landing areas.
I would agree that every one of those questions are good ones, although I can't possibly imagine myself ever asking every one of them. If I were to seriously spend the time to come up with a "Beginners guide to showing up a new DZ", I can't imagine coming up with a list this comprehensive. I don't mean to imply that these questions aren't important, just that the sheer number in the post was overkill. If that's the level of safety awareness that we expect of our new jumpers, then I must've seriously missed some training somehwere.
Of course, that is just my (relatively newbie) opinion.
_Am
ICQ: 5578907
MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com
Yahoo IM: ametcalf_1999

[Kelly 0]

andy,
thanks for responding. its gives me a better idea of where you were coming from with that and also what you were trying to say.
At 15 jumps i did some stupid shit, at 20 jumps i did some stupid shit. At 30 jumps i did some stupid shit. at 43 jumps i did some stupid shit.. the list goes on and on...
all the idiotic things ive done have gradually added to my list.
I've gotten hurt once because i didnt consider the factors. I rushed for a load, jumped during the weekend when i normally only jump during the week, no wind day-wasnt use to that. the list goes on and on. I ended up in a cast, unable to skydive for 7 weeks and faced with a whole new dz scene 2,500 miles away from home. I believe it had a lot to do with the fact i didnt do my normal routine. I was just so friggin anxious to get on that first load i could..
I didnt think that i was ready to start traveling yet, hell, not with only 43 jumps. not for myself. but i factored in other things such as currency (hard to maintain in NJ during the winter), having to 'get back on the horse', so many things that i decided traveling wouldnt be the worst idea i could come up with. I ended up out there for 5 1/2 weeks. I learned so much, alot of it b/c i sat on the ground still nursing my injuries for the first two weeks i got there.
a lot of it has to do with me being a control freak. Ill be the first to admit i am a HUGE control freak. I like to have as many answers as possible.
last season i worked 60-70 hrs w/k on the dz. didnt leave much time for jumping.. so all i had to do was learn ground knowledge. Still more ways i picked up what i did. And it taught me that i can handle being at a dz and not jumping. its okay for me. theres always another load.
when you sit on the ground (and most times not by choice) you tend to see a lot that you miss from the boarding area to the landing area to the packing area and back to the boarding area..
I just consider myself very lucky that i got to work so much on the dz and my jumping was limited b/c i learned more than i would have by just simply jumping. Im feeling more confident now and will probably see some of these things diminish in time. but for right now, ive still got an ankle that wants to crap out on me at any moment.. I've still got a shoulder that aches occasionally, and a memory of a really screwed up landing (inherant fear).. thats why i do what i do. I need to feel as confident as possible. without it, im only going to get hurt again..
I havent been as lucky (as far as outs go) my home dz can be kinda hairy depending on where youre at, so from jump no. 1 i had to plan, plan, plan..
sorry that was so long....


http://kel197.tripod.com/skydivefriendsTRIPOD/

[Hooknswoop 19]

Can someone be TOO safe? I don't think so. I always touch my handles more than once in the plane. Most of it is just to make me feel good about my gear. If I touched my handles 3 seconds ago and I or anyone near me hasn't moved on the plane, they couldn't possible be out of place, but I'll double check them anyway. It's nice to have a warm fuzzy about my gear before I exit so I can focus on the skydive.
Another thing I do at a new DZ is to walk the swoop lane. Since I usually slide at the end of my swoop, I am looking for any uneven ground that could twist my ankle or knee. I try to find a smooth patch of ground and look for areas to avoid. I picture my approach and options. usually at least one load will land during this time allowing me to be sure my approach will fit in with the normal traffic or have to change it.
Hook

[billvon 2,989]

>Despite your very valid point, I can't imagine any point in my skydiving history where I would ask those many question.
Nor could I. But that's more because I didn't know to ask those questions. When I went to my first boogie, I had no idea it could possibly be dangerous to pull high. I would never have thought that I shouldn't cross the runway below 500 feet ("what's the big deal? The cessna's never landing at the same time we are".) Such a list might actually make people ask the right questions, even if it's over-comprehensive for any one jumper.
-bill von

[mgaillar 0]

I am heading to Deland this weekend...my first trip to another DZ. Although there are some very basic pieces of information everyone "should" know to collect, I asked Hook to bring this topic to this forum to gain a wider knowledge of what other skydivers do when they arrive at new dropzones.
Thanks to you all, I have gained more insight as to info I should consider collecting when arriving in Deland. This should be a forum that lists everyone's personal check list. Then we all can take the collection of info and make (or revise) our own lists. I find it quite unfortunate that any skydiver might ridicule another's list, however unintentional it may have been.
Nobody should conform to somebody else's list, but rather make their own check list that gives them the piece of mind that allows them to make a safe and informative skydive.
Thanks thus far for all the contributions to this topic.
Matt
http://www.skydiveorange.com

[Spectrejumper 0]

Maybe I've just been lucky at the DZ's I've been to, but the person checking me in has always given me a briefing on the basic stuff. (e.g. aerial photo, landing rules, etc.) As far as walking the landing area before jumping, I've never done it but it's not a bad idea. I think each person needs to do what it takes to make themselves feel comfortable. In regards to Kelly's post, I think it might give inexperienced jumpers some ideas of questions they should be asking but hadn't thought of.
Mike D-23312
"It's such a shame to spend your time away like this...existing." JMH

[rgoper 0]

what about exit order everybody? there's been a lot of contraversy lately about who exits the aircraft first, we all know the standards. the one thing that is a given is CRw out last.
Richard

[AggieDave 6]

RW big to small, FF big to small, students, tandems, CReW.
RW drifts more then FF, so they'll fly farther along with the winds. FF doesn't drift as much (unless you're zooming due to proficiancy problems), so they'll go out after the RW. Come pull time, the FF will probably be pulling at relatively the same time that the RW guys are, but the RW guys will be farther down the line of flight, so it all works out.
"And who are you?"
"I'm...Batman..."

[rgoper 0]

dave:
have you ever caught up with the rw divers before pull altitude? remember, they have to track, yuch!
r.g.