When did paid packing start?

[Andy9o8 2]

In the late 70s Seneca Falls had a lot of S/L student business (and rigs), and I'd occasionally pack S/L rigs for Howie for a buck each. Other than that, not packing your own main was still pretty much unheard of in that neck of the woods back then. Even if you rented a DZ cheapo rig, the first thing you did was un-pack and re-pack it before you jumped it.

[steve1 5]

I remember packing (student) static line rigs when I was a ten jump wonder. We'd tie the static line onto the pilot chute, and onto the cones of a B-12 container with break cord. The string from gutted 550 cord seemed to work well for that. We never got paid a cent, for all that hard work....I don't think I ever saw a malfunction either, despite the fact that those rigs were often packed by ding dongs...

[Hammitt 0]

Hey Pete, remember the time you had to refund Steinmetz his money?

[Krip 2]

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Back in the olden days (early 70's) everyone packed their own main. At least I never heard of anyone who got paid for doing such a thing. I quit jumping for about twenty years. When I came back, there were all kinds of new changes.....this was one of them.

At first I figured only the wealthy, did that kind of thing. Kind of like hiring someone to shine your shoes, or drive your car, or something like that.... but no.... even peons, like myself, sometimes hired a packer.
Anyone have any history on this subject....When and where did you see your first hired packer?

Hi Steve

My opinion is there have been and always will be "Packers" Human packers probably date back to adam and eve.

In reference to someone packing someone else's rig for fun jumpers for $$$? In 1970-71 We were jumping in the midwest at a club owned "one cessna shithole DZ" (DZ.com quote).

95% of the jumpers at the dz were vets, college students and blue collar.The one white collar dude was a the FBI agent.

A father son team decided to take the first jump course, made a couple of more jumps

Dad was a dentist and didn't have "the time to have anything to do with packing a parachute. he asked us if we knew someone who he could pay to pack his rig..

I almost asked the Dentist if he payed someone to have foreplay with his wife before they had sex.

IMO packing was part of the the whole jumping experience, it helps people know their gear, plus rolling around on all that NYLON is fun[;). Getting to jump your own pack job etc etc.

Around 1985 when we got back into jumping we made the transistion to sqs immediatly started rolling our own until one day.......attended a skills camp Z Hills. We were being manifested for every other load

I barely had enough time to land, pack, and dirt dive
and pee befor the next load.

While we we getting ready to dirt dive for the third load I noticed these two nice women that were on our load that weren't even glowing, perfect make up hair in place etc.

I didn't have a clue how they were packing so damn fast without breaking a sweat so i asked.

Packers
First time I heard about them and you bet I used a packer for the rest of my holiday, and i was never late for a load either the rest of the jumps were no sweat.
FWIW IMO The professional packers are the hardest working folks on the DZ and are a force multipler for the DZO's and their staff. The have my upmost respect.

R.I.P.

One Jump Wonder

[captain1976 0]

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My understanding is that it has to do with Billy Weber, Rickster Powell, Todd Charmont and maybe Andi Duff. In DeLand. circa 1984. And it also might have had something to do with a world meet around that time. If you can find and ask Billy, I damn well know he'd love to tell you, regardless of the truth.

DZ kids were probably the first to get to pack. Harold Stewarts son Johnny packed for 2 10-way teams at the '74 Z-Hills Turkey meet.Para Commanders in sleeves. No malfunctions.
"Professiona"l packing may have started with competition teams wanting to save time and energy. The Air Bears in '85 had Alaska Bob for a packer. He went north after they won the Nationals and didn't come back to DeLand for a while. Tommy asked if I wanted to go to the world meet in Yugoslavia. I let him know that I was no where close to Bob as a packer but they took me anyway. A great trip that led to the demo EVER. (That's another story)

The next year, "86, Aziz (sp) came to DeLand and hired Tommy to coach his 4 way team. That was the beginning of professional coaching. Aziz was the only one of the four who could skydive well so Tommy built a team around him. Aziz paid for everything. Skip Kniley was the paid video man, Fang was the paid packer/rigger. This might have been the first professional team other than the Golden Knights. Billy, Rickster, Todd, and Andi were all there at the beginning and jumped on the band wagon. Other teams saw the advantages of having their own packer and it went on from there.

And it was Billy Weber at DeLand who was instrumental in having jumpers set their brakes during a meet where time was an issue. Thereafter it became the norm.

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[kimemerson 7]

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My understanding is that it has to do with Billy Weber, Rickster Powell, Todd Charmont and maybe Andi Duff. In DeLand. circa 1984. And it also might have had something to do with a world meet around that time. If you can find and ask Billy, I damn well know he'd love to tell you, regardless of the truth.

DZ kids were probably the first to get to pack. Harold Stewarts son Johnny packed for 2 10-way teams at the '74 Z-Hills Turkey meet.Para Commanders in sleeves. No malfunctions.
"Professiona"l packing may have started with competition teams wanting to save time and energy. The Air Bears in '85 had Alaska Bob for a packer. He went north after they won the Nationals and didn't come back to DeLand for a while. Tommy asked if I wanted to go to the world meet in Yugoslavia. I let him know that I was no where close to Bob as a packer but they took me anyway. A great trip that led to the demo EVER. (That's another story)

The next year, "86, Aziz (sp) came to DeLand and hired Tommy to coach his 4 way team. That was the beginning of professional coaching. Aziz was the only one of the four who could skydive well so Tommy built a team around him. Aziz paid for everything. Skip Kniley was the paid video man, Fang was the paid packer/rigger. This might have been the first professional team other than the Golden Knights. Billy, Rickster, Todd, and Andi were all there at the beginning and jumped on the band wagon. Other teams saw the advantages of having their own packer and it went on from there.

And it was Billy Weber at DeLand who was instrumental in having jumpers set their brakes during a meet where time was an issue. Thereafter it became the norm.

Yes it was Billy to start the set your brakes thing. He figured out how much time it saved overall, and how that translated into either more jumps or being done sooner. And like you say, it's just standard stuff all over now.

Billy is also responsible for coining the term PRO packing. (Proper Ram-air Orientation)

[steve1 5]

Is that Billy Weber in the video "Pack Like a Pro?"

I bought that when I was getting back in the sport.

Billy Weber looks like an old salt who's forgot more about jumping than I'll ever know....

[kimemerson 7]

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Is that Billy Weber in the video "Pack Like a Pro?"

I bought that when I was getting back in the sport.

Billy Weber looks like an old salt who's forgot more about jumping than I'll ever know....

Yeah, that's Billy. I co-authored Skydiver's Survival Guide with Marcus Antebi, who produced Pack Like a Pro, and Billy did all our test jumping for malfunction photos.

[Trae 1]

First paid packer I saw was myself .
$2 student cheapo packs early 80's.

me and a couple of mates couldn't believe they would let us pack these things starting on our second weekend in the sport.

We'd know which student was using who's pack job and watch the low SL exits closely, hardly beliveing they were going to open ok. The mistakes we made hurt no-one and I never got to see a cheapo mal ever.

An eye opener much later was watching the base rig packers at Kjerag heli-boogie .
once again not a mal in sight

[mjosparky 4]

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When People truly got fuckin LAZY and everything was handed to to them on a plate! Instant EVERYTHING, it just get's worse every year.

No more calls we have a winner.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[upndownshop 0]

I have always said the only reason my parents had kids was for the packing.
Which I was by the time I was 6 in 1973. We were paid .50 for packing the T10's. My brother and I charged each other .25 to lean. What did we know?
By the time I was 15 we were up to 2.25 I believe. By this time we could pack any canopy that showed up at the DZ, round square or triangle. I remember when I was 10 and made $40.00 in one day at a novice competition in Spring Creek TX. Packed 40 T 10's for a buck each. That was a long day. I have 0 malfunctions from my pack jobs as a kid, did have 1 total back then but it was before the curved pin was used.

My parents would call ahead to DZ's when they were traveling for Meets or whatever and ask if they had packers, I was told people would laugh at the thought of it.
I actually did a little research with this a few years ago and had asked some other 2nd Gens when they started packing. Some were before me but they were not getting paid, this includes my 4 year older sister who was packing by 1969. It is quite possible that we were one of the first paid packers in the Texas area, maybe even more.

Funny I found this thread, I just went thru some storage and found the Instamatic photos I would take of the jumpers landing, or as an observer getting their exits. I took 40.00 from packing and purchased a Handle Instamatic camera, you know the ones you crank out of the top of the camera. I would chase the students down and catch their landings for a 1.25 (each shot cost a buck). Funny though, it took me 25 years to figure out why I had to always chase these guys down. My brother and I would always guide the students in with the orange paddles (no radios). I finally figured out that he would purposely shoot them away from the peas when I was taking photos, thus making me run my ass off to catch the shot. Sneaky little devil! A year later I made enough money to buy a Nikon and start processing slides on the weekends.
Would not trade anything on earth for being around back then. Fun stuff!

[steve1 5]

An insta-matic camera kind of dates a person. I doubt if most "Whipper Snappers" ever heard of them.

In Army Jump School, a friend was using an instamatic, to snap pictures under canopy.

He had to be fast, to get many photos from 1200 ft. (while trying to slip away from all the other green canopies)

It was also tricky trying to hide such a thing from the black hats in jump schoolI'm sure they wouldn't have approve of making a photo jump when you had less than five jumps.

I still have a copy of some of those photos (from back in the day!)....

[chuteless 1]

I used to pay a kid 25 cents to pack my Para Commander in 1964. I then discovered a way to quick pack ( 5 minutes) . It was certainly not the money but I didnt like those fancy pleat and fold pack jobs,. My quick packs opened fast and hard, good for opening less than 500 feet.

[Andy9o8 2]

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I used to pay a kid 25 cents to pack my Para Commander in 1964. I then discovered a way to quick pack ( 5 minutes) . It was certainly not the money but I didnt like those fancy pleat and fold pack jobs,. My quick packs opened fast and hard, good for opening less than 500 feet.

Ha! I think you may be talking about the difference between "Christmas tree" packing, where you put a separate longitudinal fold in each flake, and "side packing" (a/k/a "California packing", where you just flake it all once, lay it on its side, and sleeve (or bag) it right up. Yeah, it was faster to pack - and faster to open! (And I never had a mal with a side-packed canopy.)

[steve1 5]

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Ha! I think you may be talking about the difference between "Christmas tree" packing, where you put a separate longitudinal fold in each flake, and "side packing" (a/k/a "California packing", where you just flake it all once, lay it on its side, and sleeve (or bag) it right up. Yeah, it was faster to pack - and faster to open! (And I never had a mal with a side-packed canopy.)

[patmoore 14]

In the late sixties I was a starving airman stationed at MacDill. Pop's meet at Indiantown was a favorite trip every year but I couldn't afford to make as many jumps as I would like. Bill Ottley would pay me $2 a rig to pack for him.

About the same time at Zephyrhills Paul Healy would occasionally give me $2 to pack his rig as well.

I'd augment my jumping funds by selling blood at Tampa General Hospital.

DZGone.com
B-4600, C-3615, D-1814, Gold Wings #326, Diamond Wings #152.

If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room!

[Krip 2]

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In the late sixties I was a starving airman stationed at MacDill. Pop's meet at Indiantown was a favorite trip every year but I couldn't afford to make as many jumps as I would like. Bill Ottley would pay me $2 a rig to pack for him.

About the same time at Zephyrhills Paul Healy would occasionally give me $2 to pack his rig as well.

I'd augment my jumping funds by selling blood at Tampa General Hospital.

Hi Pat

Bill O was paying $2 for pack jobs in the late 60's

I forget lots of things these days. Was Bill O a harvard or yale grad?

FWIW at our small cub DZ with some income coming in from the ckubs s/l classes we were paying maybe $2.5/jump from 7.5, .

Selling blood. Thats hard core.

R.

Take that DB Cooper

One Jump Wonder

[patmoore 14]

Bill was the editor of the Literary Digest when he was a student at Yale. He knew William F. Buckley very well and was even featured in a chapter of one of Buckley's books.

A highlight each Christmas was the arrival of Bill's annual card with him doing something in his Santa Claus suit. The theme ranged from wingwalking, spelunking, parasailing, to base jumping.

Bill was one of a kind.

DZGone.com
B-4600, C-3615, D-1814, Gold Wings #326, Diamond Wings #152.

If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room!

[Krip 2]

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Bill was the editor of the Literary Digest when he was a student at Yale. He knew William F. Buckley very well and was even featured in a chapter of one of Buckley's books.

A highlight each Christmas was the arrival of Bill's annual card with him doing something in his Santa Claus suit. The theme ranged from wingwalking, spelunking, parasailing, to base jumping.

Bill was one of a kind.

Hi Pat

I never had to chance to meet Bill. But after reading about him in parachutist over many years.
it was like we almost knew him.

To bad I never met Bill I would have liked to get his autograph on my log book.
I'm old and I'm forgeting more every day........
Where was I

Was Bill the driving force behind moving USPA Headqtrs to the DC area and buying OUR own bldg. Which helped put USPA on a firm financial footing due to among other things the rising value in OUR Real estate.???

Bill was definately one of a kind
R.

Thanks Pat and Bill for giving us a legit reason to knock DB cooper thread down again.

Trust me I can not tell a lie I used to work for the gov't (mostly true). I took a peek at the DB cooper thread. Their back to "discussing" the operation of the rear stairs

IMO thats close to a "bump"

One Jump Wonder

[piisfish 140]

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IMO thats close to a "bump"

Which Bill would that be ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM