Should coachs get paid?

[riggerrob 643]

Should coachs get paid?
Let's debate old school vs. new school, minimum qualifications, etc.
By minimum qualifications, let's start the debate at CSPA Coach 1, USPA Coach, Skydive U., etc.
Finally, how much should they get paid?

[LawnDart21 0]

Aw, jeez, here we go again........ha ha ha LOL!
I think if it's a pre-license ISP coached dive, then yes, the coach should get a paid slot and $10. The coaches rating cost a few dollars (not alot, but a few) to get, so a couple of dollars for making the jump is acceptable I think. As for freeefly coaching, I think it's necessary evil. I got coached by Max Cohn last year and it was like $35 plus his slot I think. It was expensive, but I learned more in 2 jumps with him then I could have learned n 10 on my own, so I think it was worth it. Besides, these Air Dolphin rated freefly coaches have spent thousands of dollars to get as good as they are, and it only seems fair that they get compensated for their efforts. As for basic coached dives with a newly license jumper doing RW dives with a coach, I think as long as the coach has something to offer, and has some credentials, (like was on a 4 way team or had like 4 hours or freefall, something experience specific) I would deam it an acceptable expense to pay a ciach to do that. I'm personally not into that, I do coached RW fun jumps for free paying my own slots with newly A-licensed jumpers out of personal choice.
I think alot of proir post issues came up about the relative experience level of the coaches taking up newbies, and my opinion is that if the DZO okays the person to coach, then they are okay in miy mind.
"I live to EFS"
Tom

[Remster 30]

C 1, I would say no... I know I personnaly took the C1 coaching jumps I did as pure learning experience (lets face it, the C1 rating is a entry point that has its role, but the amount you can show is somewhat limited... important but limited)
C2: thats where it becomes merky.... I never had too much time to coach at that level before I left for the UK, and the few jumps I coached i never expected to get paid or have my slot paid (in fact they were part of the C2 practical level). Even once off practical with the full rating, at 500 jumps, i wouldnt have felt right getting money for it. Maybe if you agree on doing several jumps with someone, then maybe I would have started to think about getting the slot or part of it paid (I still think I'd have a hard time asking money for it.. slot or beers maybe, but not money).
This is as a recreational jumper. If you make your living from jumping, then obviously the issue is different: you;re making all your money from jumping, so would you be willing to "give away" part of your revenue stream. Lots of people do on occasion, but I think in these cases it more a exeption then a rule.
Remster
Muff 914

[MarkM 0]

Paid coaching kinda makes AFF pointless, doesn't it?
AFF, graduate in 7 jumps for $1300. But wait, you gotta pay for coaching for, what, another 10-13? Figure 50 a coach jump(being conservative), that's another 500-650 bucks.
So I got 7 highly stressfull AFF jumps designed to "teach me everything", but really won't since I can't get my A until 20 freefalls and need a "coach" for those?
Pass. For about 1800 I can go AFP, do 15 jumps at my own pace and won't need a coach when I'm done.
I don't disagree with the concept of coaching. But if we need to coach AFF graduates to turn them into safe skydivers, then maybe the problem isn't that we need a coaching system. Maybe AFF is outdated.

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

At my DZ if you want a WARP jump you just pay their slot. It's good becuase they love the sport so they're putting something back in. Plus, they like skydiving as much as the rest of us so it's a "free" jump for them.
You shouldn't put a knife in the toaster - but you're an adult now !!!

[AndyMan 7]

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Pass. For about 1800 I can go AFP, do 15 jumps at my own pace and won't need a coach when I'm done.
I don't disagree with the concept of coaching. But if we need to coach AFF graduates to turn them into safe skydivers, then maybe the problem isn't that we need a coaching system. Maybe AFF is outdated.

AFF IS outdated. The whole teaching method was outdated, that's why the USPA did the ISP in the first place. Coaches is just the first step in this5 process.
Secondly from what I understand, just because you're doing AFP, you still need coaching intil you get your A. If the AFP is 15 jumps, you're sill going to need 5 coach jumps until you get your 'A' which I think is still 20 jumps.
Coaching is a GOOD THING. The only debate is whether your DZ makes you pay for it or not.
_Am
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[MarkM 0]

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If the AFP is 15 jumps, you're sill going to need 5 coach jumps until you get your 'A' which I think is still 20 jumps.

Nope. Already got 5 freefalls from my SL jumps a year or so back. I'm covered Plus I don't think my DZ does paid coaching jumps.

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Coaching is a GOOD THING. The only debate is whether your DZ makes you pay for it or not.

My biggest bitch is how this is gonna raise the price entry point for the sport.
Okay, in Indiana on SL progression my FJC was 150 and my jumps were 45-50 a pop. That made it real easy to get into the sport and stay current.
Personally I can spend the cash on the training. Right now I'm doing about 1.8k on AFP and 1.1k on tunnel camp. I'll be 100 times the skydiver when I'm done with that than I ever would've been up in Indiana finishing up my SL progression.
But a 2k entry point(AFF + coaching) is probably harsh enough to keep a lot of my friends out of the sport. And fail a level 1 or level 2 AFF jump, and that price goes up a lot.
If we're coaching the tail end of the 20 required A jumps now, why are we putting so much pressure on the front end of the training. I couldn't imagine doing a level 1 AFF straight out of the blue and passing.

[billvon 2,991]

>Should coachs get paid?
Should women get money?
Both are impossible to answer without context. "Should whores get paid for having sex with you" is a very different question than "should engineers get paid a similar amount regardless of whether they are male or female."
There's nothing wrong with anyone getting paid for doing something (as long as it's not illegal.) There's also nothing wrong with doing the same thing for free. Both have a place in skydiving. Personally I think that we owe it to the sport to give out the same kind of free coaching that we got when we started, but that's just me.
Should free coaching be banned? No. Should all proficiency-card coaches be paid? No. Should DZ's have policies that prevent people from coaching for free? No.
>Finally, how much should they get paid?
Again, impossible to say without context. If you're an open-class team going up against the French 4-way team, $100 a jump might not be too much for coaching from Dan BC (although he'd never charge that much.) If you just want to fool around with a new jumper, do some 2-way with him, a beer at the end of the day might be payment enough. If someone can convince some new jumper that he needs to fork out $40 a jump for coaching, and he make a few jumps with him, then that's great - but I'd think that such a person was a slime.
-bill von

[Sebazz1 2]

I think a paid slot at the most. But if it's not offered I will pick up my own slot. I remember how much it initially costs to start skydiving and coaches/instructors should do what they can to keep the costs of the sport down. I personally get enough reward seeing people learn and get excited. I don't need thier money also.
I think it should be up to the individual coaches what they want to charge not the DZ or DZO. Afterall coaches and instructors are independant contractors. Jobs usualy go to the lowest bidder.
Seb

[skreamer 1]

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I think a paid slot at the most. But if it's not offered I will pick up my own slot. I remember how much it initially costs to start skydiving and coaches/instructors should do what they can to keep the costs of the sport down. I personally get enough reward seeing people learn and get excited. I don't need thier money also.

*applause* Hear hear!!! I agree with that entirely, of course it doesn't apply to people working in the sport - but that is the coachee's prerogative. Want to be coached by a professional coach and you will pay for the privilege. What I find to be a big benefit of jumping with newbies is that since you are paying your own slot, they can't lay claim to your time (ie if they are knobbers you don't have to jump with them).
Will
"Don't die until you're dead"