skymedic 0 #1 February 6, 2002 So I have this friend who jumps out at a west coast DZ....this person who shall remain nameless only has 10 or 11 jumps...well the DZ thinks that it is a good thing for this person to be put under a somewhat smaller canopy...Well this particular DZ put's her under a CROSSFIRE......loaded at about .9 or so.....WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU GUYS ON OUT THERE?????an eliptical and they dont even have a license of any type yet....that is nuts.......sorry....but I am concerned about this person and hope they get smarter or the DZ does or something....well tell me what yall think of this?????marc"...a mind stretched with new idea's will never regain its shape" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #2 February 6, 2002 Ya, ya, ya.Name names and we'll check it out.quadehttp://futurecam.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fonz 0 #3 February 6, 2002 I know a DZ where they put a 60 jump wonder under a (large) Stiletto because the Triathlons were already rented out. Doesn't seem like a sensible thing to me either...Alphonshttp://www.liacs.nl/~avwerven/skydive Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #4 February 6, 2002 Arggggg.... yep... ya got this canopy Nazi fired up!First... don't be afraid to drop DZ names, I want to know what ones to avoid on my US tour this summer. The Downsizing wars at one DZ in TX already mean's I'm not going there.As for a Crossfire for a student.... thats just wrong. Sure a Crossfire is similar to a Cobalt and Atair can market their canopy to all the students they want to, but I'm not buying it (I'm actually selling my Cobalt in part to their attitude) Just because something is good for a few people does'nt mean its good for everyone.The Icarus Crossfire is a canopy that when properly flown is great by most accounts. But whould I want to put my brother under one on his 15 or even 50th jump... NO! Hell, i was scared under a Cobalt loaded 1.25:1 at 175 jumps. Sure I might be considered a wuss or a pansy because I'm not jumping something loaded at like 1.5 or 1.6 since I'm approaching 300 jumps, but you know what? I don't care what you think about me needing to go smaller or more high proformance. I'll go there when I'M ready and not one minute sooner. Does a student really know how much is too much? Very few do....Hopefully your friend realizes this before its too late and she gets hurt.I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #5 February 6, 2002 QuoteWell this particular DZ put's her under a CROSSFIRE......loaded at about .9 or so.....I'm not sure how I feel about this. If this person had 20 jumps, I'd support it completely. I strongly like Skydive Chicago's idea of putting young jumpers under the style of canopy they will be flying later. I also strongly support the idea of putting people under canopies with an appropriate wingload. By 10 jumps I was certainly jumping a .9 wingload, although I was under a Navigator, not a Crossfire.I'm not a nazi over it being eliptical, I am a nazi over wing loading._Am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #6 February 6, 2002 >Well this particular DZ put's her under a CROSSFIRE......loaded at about .9 or so.....Wing loading, and not canopy shape, is a bigger determining factor towards forgiveness. A 170 lb guy is safer landing a Stiletto 150 than a Triathalon 99. I have no problem putting any jumper on a small elliptical provided they have the training and skill to deal with it, and can demonstrate that at a lower wing loading. Can she flat turn and flare turn? Can she turn with front risers and rear risers? Can she turn to land using toggles and risers? Can she make a high performance landing on front risers alone, and flare it with rear risers? Some jumpers take hundreds of jumps to get to that point. Some, who go through a training program like Skydive Chicago's, can do it at 20.Having said that, I doubt that at 10 jumps she can do all that, and I also tend to doubt she has the training to fly such a canopy. Which DZ is it?-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #7 February 6, 2002 QuoteI have no problem putting any jumper on a small elliptical provided they have the training and skill to deal with it, and can demonstrate that at a lower wing loading. Can she flat turn and flare turn? Can she turn with front risers and rear risers? Can she turn to land using toggles and risers? Can she make a high performance landing on front risers alone, and flare it with rear risers? Some jumpers take hundreds of jumps to get to that point. I dont believe she knows what those terms are, let alone has tryed them......marc"...a mind stretched with new idea's will never regain its shape" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kirils 1 #8 February 6, 2002 I know of a DZ on the east coast that was ( at least they were a little over a year ago) using Saphires as student chutes for AFF loaded 1:1. I never heard of any problems.Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #9 February 6, 2002 there is no problem using a safire as it is mildly eliptical compared with a crossfire.....SDC used safires until they picked up the sabre2's just this past year...marc"...a mind stretched with new idea's will never regain its shape" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fonz 0 #10 February 6, 2002 Quoteusing Saphires as student chutes for AFF loaded 1:1The AFF (and beyond) rigs here are Javelins with Sabres. They load me around 1.0 or maybe 1.1. I screwed the landing up twice (*) but didn't get injured or anything. So I'd say they're quite forgiving.(*) First time I landed in brakes, as I used to do with the Navigator. Bad idea with a Sabre! Last time I flared too high.Alphonshttp://www.liacs.nl/~avwerven/skydive Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebazz1 2 #11 February 6, 2002 Guilty before proven innocent, the American way.......Seb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #12 February 6, 2002 "Guilty before proven innocent, the American way......."the legal system works the same way...no matter what they might have you believe..."Houston? That place is full of Crack heads and debutantes."- Hank HillClay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SBS 0 #13 February 6, 2002 "I was certainly jumping a .9 wingload, although I was under a Navigator, not a Crossfire."Uh, yeah, slight difference there..."I'm not a nazi over it being eliptical, I am a nazi over wing loading."One factor or another does not go into the relative safety of a canopy...they both need to be considered.Steve Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
