SkyDekker 1,465 #1 January 29, 2002 After my 4 SL jumps this summer, I ahve decided to save some money and go do AFF or PFF at one of the local dropzones on or near the Niagara Peninsula here in the great white north, Canada. I ahve found one DZ with an AFF program identical to the US AFF program. Then there is one DZ with a PFF program requiring 2 IAD jumps prior to doing their program.My question however is: What are the (a?) license requirements in Canada. After graduating from AFF, what would I have to do to get a license?Thanks, SkyDekker"We cannot do great things, only small things with great love" Mother Theresa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
174fps 1 #2 January 29, 2002 go tohttp://www.cspa.ca and click on student and novice info.there is a link to the new 2001 CoP's (Certificate of Proficiency)There is now a solo certificate prior to the A licence.the DZ with the AFF program is probably a USPA affiliate.The one with the PFF will be a CSPA DZ.Andrew. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #3 January 29, 2002 Best bet is to check out the cspa website. They changed the licencing system last year so old folks like me cant help with our historical info (left Canada 3 years ago now...)RemsterMuff 914 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #4 January 30, 2002 Since you're in the area,Go to Frontier, they're in upstate NY. One of the nicest DZ's around. They usually have turbines. Their instruction is excellent, the evening firepit is legendary.When I did it two years ago it was cheaper then swoop, but the dollar's taken a nosedive since so do the math yourself.The USPA progression makes so much more sense then the CSPA. You should save money by going with the USPA.Frontier is located in NewFane, NY - a 15 minute drive from the Queenston/Lewiston Bridge.You'll find that about half the jumpers drive from Canada, most from Toronto - simply because Toronto area DZ's simply suck._Am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #5 January 30, 2002 Oh, the URL. Right.http://www.skydivefrontier.com/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #6 January 30, 2002 Andy,QuoteThe USPA progression makes so much more sense then the CSPA. You should save money by going with the USPA.Care to explain that view?I persoannaly feel that the AFF program, by going from nothing to a 2 on 1 is not as good of a progression then PFF that requires 2 or 3 IADs.RemsterMuff 914 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #7 January 30, 2002 ***the DZ with the AFF program is probably a USPA affiliate. The one with the PFF will be a CSPA DZ[/quote}Actually, the DZ offering the AFF program is affiliated with both organization. At least that is what I understand from their website.If I get an US a license, would that allow me to jump on any of the canadian DZs?SkyDekker"We cannot do great things, only small things with great love" Mother Theresa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #8 January 30, 2002 Andy,You made two points that I am just not grasping.First, did you said that USPA's progression makes more sense? I have been a CSPA Instructor since 1982 and a USPA Instructor since 1993 and frankly, I never quite understood their old "zero to hero in one week" progression. Granted, if you are a hero, you will breeze through in one week, but not all students are that bright. Many of them need simplified dives, or they will be overwhelmed and have to repeat levels, a discouraging process at best.The other problem with USPA's old system was the strident "AFF or nothing" attitude of too many USPA Instructors. Fortunately, USPA's new Integrated Student Program has all but the worst hardliners grudgingly admitting that the best student progression integrates a variety of teaching techniques, including a few tandems, a few IADs, a litlle tunnel time, a few levels of AFF and a few coach dives. But this is a radically new concept to most American DZs. This broad concept was introduced in places like Gananoque, Ontario and Claresholm, Alberta 20 years ago.Just to rub it in, in 1982 I flew in the first vertical wind tunnel, near Montreal!Fortunately, USPA is now revising their progression to bring it in line with innovations that started in Canada circa 1980 and were further refined by Canadian Rob Laidlaw's company: Skydive University and the Australian Parachute Federation. Oh, wait a minute, the APF just photocopied manuals printed in North America.If USPA has a better progression, it is only because they are building on concepts introduced by Canadians 20 years ago.As for your suggestion that one could save money by learning at an American DZ ... have you looked at exchange rates recently? The Canadian dollar is hovering around US$0.63. The only advantage to learning in the USA is that you can jump there during the winter. As for dissing Ontario DZs ... That is just bad karma dude.Bor Warner,CSPA Rigger A, Coach 2, IAD & PFF InstructorCanadian Private Pilot LicenseUSPA BIC, S/L, Tandem and IAD InstructorFAA Master Parachute Rigger, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #9 January 30, 2002 Thx Rob, very well informed post.As a Quebequer, its my duty to diss Ontarians, but never seriously... When I live in Ontario, (in TO) I jumped in Ontario, coached in Ontario and instructed in Ontario. Small DZs, yes, but good pleople. Netheir the people of the DZs sucked...RemsterMuff 914 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strynx 0 #10 January 30, 2002 "As a Quebequer, its my duty to diss Ontarians, but never seriously... "It's more like a famaly fight "yon quand meme une tete carre" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AndyMan 7 #11 January 30, 2002 I didn't diss Ontario DZ's, I dissed Toronto DZ's. This means STI, which goes without saying. This also means Arthur, which IMHO is just to small. Simcoe is nearly closing. The best of the bunch IMHO is SWOOP, will sometimes get turbines. I have free lodging at Simcoe (people who land off, land at my aunts farm), and I still prefered Frontier.I love Gananoque. I jump there while at my old man's cottage, in Gan. I wouldn't call it a Toronto area DZ, though. A three hour drive is too far for a 182 and 206.I'll defer to your opinion on PFF beating AFF. Frontier has a TIAF program, 3 tandems and 5 AFF's, resembling more what Gan is doing.As for the dollar, I think I made that disclaimer..._Am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,465 #12 January 31, 2002 QuoteThis means STI, which goes without saying.I am just wondering what in your opinion is wrong with STI. I did my first 4 SL jumps there. Personally I wouldn't mind going back there, but it is just way too far for me to drive, and there are options closer ot home.SkyDekker"We cannot do great things, only small things with great love" Mother Theresa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 30 #13 January 31, 2002 WOOOHOOO... Canadian DZ politics!Should get fun!... (let through in CSPA vs CAPS shall we! lol)RemsterMuff 914 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AndyMan 7 #14 January 31, 2002 At skydive toronto, you will jump ancient gear. I know of no other dropzone that jumps gear THAT old. (manta's and easyfliers. FXC's on reserve and main). Reserve hanldes FALL out of the easyfliers.Your ownly trianing method is Static Line. SDI does not do any AFF. You can do a tandem, but it is one of the most expensive tandems in Canada. A tandem at STI is nearly twice the price of Skydive Gananoque.STI is openly hostile to experienced jumpers. Experienced jumpers daily get scratched to Joe can throw out more static lines.STI uses 5 widebody 182's. Despite that the DZ could easily support at least a Cessna Caravan, STI is simply not interested in turbines. Joe Chow knows that his 182 put out static lines just fine, and that's all that he's interested in doing..._Am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 30 #15 January 31, 2002 Is Arthur still putting 1st jump students on rounds?PS: for you fellow north americains, they still do that in the UK too.. man was I surprised when I saw a bunch of 1st jump students wait for boarding with belly mounted reserves for the 1st time here!RemsterMuff 914 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites R00tj00se 0 #16 January 31, 2002 ___________________________________________________A three hour drive is too far for a 182 and 206.___________________________________________________eeeee by gum, the youth of today!! When I started jumpin' back in '93 it were a luxury to go up int Cessna for a jump. And if t' Cessna had carpet it were a reet treat.And don't even get me going about when they started up t' engines on Islander.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AndyMan 7 #17 January 31, 2002 I would love to see that plane fly...._Am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #18 January 31, 2002 Apparently the DZ in Arthur, Ontario stopped dropping students with round parachutes when Llyod Kallio recently retired to Belize. Knowing Llyod, he was probably using the same serial numbers that I jumped in 1979!The good news about Arthur is that the new owners inquired about our stack of used Student Javelins with Mantas, Sharpchuter reserves and freshly overhauled FXCs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #19 January 31, 2002 "he was probably using the same serial numbers that I jumped in 1979!"Hey...if it's good enough for the US Army..."It's the cans..they're defective. Stay away from the cans"-Steve MartinClay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Strynx 0 #20 January 31, 2002 " hey if it's good enough for the US ARMY"It's even better for the Canadian Forces.... P.L.U.R. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Strynx 0 #21 January 31, 2002 Just wondering for the solo licence is it 20 or 25 jumps? can't remember.P.L.U.R. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,465 #22 January 31, 2002 QuoteJust wondering for the solo licence is it 20 or 25 jumps? can't rememberI am pretty sure it is 20 jumps. My question is, would a US dz let me jump if all I had was a canadian solo certificate?SkyDekker"We cannot do great things, only small things with great love" Mother Theresa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 30 #23 January 31, 2002 they wouldnt have to.. . they may. call them ahead of time to find out.RemsterMuff 914 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #24 January 31, 2002 "My question is, would a US dz let me jump if all I had was a canadian solo certificate?"I wouldn't see why not. If you have your log book it shouldn't be a problem. Of course...call the DZ before you travel to explain the situation and get a final decision from the DZO."It's the cans..they're defective. Stay away from the cans"-Steve MartinClay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 174fps 1 #25 January 31, 2002 the Minimum # of jumps for the Solo Certificate is 10 jumpsthe other requirements are:---one freefall delay greater than 30 secsone 5 sec freefall delay from 4000'three self spotted (unassisted) jumps self guided within 50m of target.demonstrated in freefall right 360, left 360 turn (figure 8)performed one freefall jump where the individual exits with back torelative wind in sit , holds for 5 sec then rotates belly to earth. (sit exit and ride the slide)Demonstrated canopy stall and recovery ( above 2000')demonstrated rear riser turn (above 2000')Completed a check out jump as per self supervision in PIM 2Ahas endorsement for reserve procedures and emergency procedures review (solo)Correct verbal response to set of published questions.minimum 3mins accum freefallstable activation at prescrbed alt on last 5 jumps.andrew Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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AndyMan 7 #11 January 30, 2002 I didn't diss Ontario DZ's, I dissed Toronto DZ's. This means STI, which goes without saying. This also means Arthur, which IMHO is just to small. Simcoe is nearly closing. The best of the bunch IMHO is SWOOP, will sometimes get turbines. I have free lodging at Simcoe (people who land off, land at my aunts farm), and I still prefered Frontier.I love Gananoque. I jump there while at my old man's cottage, in Gan. I wouldn't call it a Toronto area DZ, though. A three hour drive is too far for a 182 and 206.I'll defer to your opinion on PFF beating AFF. Frontier has a TIAF program, 3 tandems and 5 AFF's, resembling more what Gan is doing.As for the dollar, I think I made that disclaimer..._Am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #12 January 31, 2002 QuoteThis means STI, which goes without saying.I am just wondering what in your opinion is wrong with STI. I did my first 4 SL jumps there. Personally I wouldn't mind going back there, but it is just way too far for me to drive, and there are options closer ot home.SkyDekker"We cannot do great things, only small things with great love" Mother Theresa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #13 January 31, 2002 WOOOHOOO... Canadian DZ politics!Should get fun!... (let through in CSPA vs CAPS shall we! lol)RemsterMuff 914 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #14 January 31, 2002 At skydive toronto, you will jump ancient gear. I know of no other dropzone that jumps gear THAT old. (manta's and easyfliers. FXC's on reserve and main). Reserve hanldes FALL out of the easyfliers.Your ownly trianing method is Static Line. SDI does not do any AFF. You can do a tandem, but it is one of the most expensive tandems in Canada. A tandem at STI is nearly twice the price of Skydive Gananoque.STI is openly hostile to experienced jumpers. Experienced jumpers daily get scratched to Joe can throw out more static lines.STI uses 5 widebody 182's. Despite that the DZ could easily support at least a Cessna Caravan, STI is simply not interested in turbines. Joe Chow knows that his 182 put out static lines just fine, and that's all that he's interested in doing..._Am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #15 January 31, 2002 Is Arthur still putting 1st jump students on rounds?PS: for you fellow north americains, they still do that in the UK too.. man was I surprised when I saw a bunch of 1st jump students wait for boarding with belly mounted reserves for the 1st time here!RemsterMuff 914 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
R00tj00se 0 #16 January 31, 2002 ___________________________________________________A three hour drive is too far for a 182 and 206.___________________________________________________eeeee by gum, the youth of today!! When I started jumpin' back in '93 it were a luxury to go up int Cessna for a jump. And if t' Cessna had carpet it were a reet treat.And don't even get me going about when they started up t' engines on Islander.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #17 January 31, 2002 I would love to see that plane fly...._Am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #18 January 31, 2002 Apparently the DZ in Arthur, Ontario stopped dropping students with round parachutes when Llyod Kallio recently retired to Belize. Knowing Llyod, he was probably using the same serial numbers that I jumped in 1979!The good news about Arthur is that the new owners inquired about our stack of used Student Javelins with Mantas, Sharpchuter reserves and freshly overhauled FXCs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #19 January 31, 2002 "he was probably using the same serial numbers that I jumped in 1979!"Hey...if it's good enough for the US Army..."It's the cans..they're defective. Stay away from the cans"-Steve MartinClay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strynx 0 #20 January 31, 2002 " hey if it's good enough for the US ARMY"It's even better for the Canadian Forces.... P.L.U.R. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strynx 0 #21 January 31, 2002 Just wondering for the solo licence is it 20 or 25 jumps? can't remember.P.L.U.R. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #22 January 31, 2002 QuoteJust wondering for the solo licence is it 20 or 25 jumps? can't rememberI am pretty sure it is 20 jumps. My question is, would a US dz let me jump if all I had was a canadian solo certificate?SkyDekker"We cannot do great things, only small things with great love" Mother Theresa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #23 January 31, 2002 they wouldnt have to.. . they may. call them ahead of time to find out.RemsterMuff 914 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #24 January 31, 2002 "My question is, would a US dz let me jump if all I had was a canadian solo certificate?"I wouldn't see why not. If you have your log book it shouldn't be a problem. Of course...call the DZ before you travel to explain the situation and get a final decision from the DZO."It's the cans..they're defective. Stay away from the cans"-Steve MartinClay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
174fps 1 #25 January 31, 2002 the Minimum # of jumps for the Solo Certificate is 10 jumpsthe other requirements are:---one freefall delay greater than 30 secsone 5 sec freefall delay from 4000'three self spotted (unassisted) jumps self guided within 50m of target.demonstrated in freefall right 360, left 360 turn (figure 8)performed one freefall jump where the individual exits with back torelative wind in sit , holds for 5 sec then rotates belly to earth. (sit exit and ride the slide)Demonstrated canopy stall and recovery ( above 2000')demonstrated rear riser turn (above 2000')Completed a check out jump as per self supervision in PIM 2Ahas endorsement for reserve procedures and emergency procedures review (solo)Correct verbal response to set of published questions.minimum 3mins accum freefallstable activation at prescrbed alt on last 5 jumps.andrew Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
