NathanL100 0 #1 January 20, 2002 How low is to low to get out at in an emergency?Personally if I was next to the door at 500 feet and the plane was going to go in I would seriously consider getting the hell out, maybe even if it was lower.Blue Ones,NathanA# 39553 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 January 20, 2002 It would depend on the situation. If the plane was on fire, pilot was dead the the wings fell off, sure, I'd get out at 500ft, but I would think that the pilot has a better chance of bringing the plane and you down safely at that altitude, then you have getting out. And with you getting out, you could totally FUBAR the pilot...Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.-General George Patton- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #3 January 20, 2002 Quotewith you getting out, you could totally FUBAR the pilot...Not to mention the rest of your jump buddies in the plane that you just destabilized even further."Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #4 January 20, 2002 I personally have had three engine failures in single engine aircraft flying jumpers. All on take off. The highest one happened at 1,000 feet AGL. The lowest happened between 400-500 feet. At 500 feet you don't have time to even say "shit". You had better be trying to put it in a field. Quick and correct actions to save everyone's life is required at 500 feet. And you want to start crawling around and getting out? Don't!!!!! A Cessna is a simple glider and very controllable with the engine out. Your pilot should be proficient enough to glide it to a survivable off field landing. If you don't feel confident that your pilot is capable of that then you have other issues to deal with. Look at the Accidents section of my site. These are links to the actual NTSB reports for Jump plane accidents both fatal and non-fatal. The year 1999 was a particularly rough year in tearms of fatal accidents but the total number of accidents listed is not much more than any other year.Read the second accident report listed in the year 1999. A Cessna 205 went down after an engine failure on take-off. Some jumpers tried to get out at that low altitude. None made it. The balance shifted to the rear after the first jumper left. The aircraft quite possibly became uncontrollable by the pilot with such a tail heavy situation. In a stall, you want as much weight forward as possible. With the weight aft (and aft of the CG limit) you will see and aircraft go into a flat unrecoverable spin from that altitude. So, unless the damn wing came off I would stay put and make sure my seat belt is securely fastened when below 1,500 AGL. Think about it. Some say they would get out at a 1,000 feet. Ok, so if the engine failure happens right at 1,000 you won't be staying there long. The concept here is that at 1,500 feet you will have time to get up, open the door, and exit all jumpers by 1,000 AGL. Below 1,500 it is better to let the pilot control the aircraft and glide it back or put it in a field in a survivable (maybe not for the plane but for the occupants) landing. Hope this helps.Chris SchindlerD-19012ATP/CFIIwww.DiverDriver.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dove 0 #5 January 20, 2002 Chris,Thank you so much!!!!!!! I think we all needed to read that.dove Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #6 January 20, 2002 No problem. That's my mission now.Chris SchindlerD-19012ATP/CFIIwww.DiverDriver.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #7 January 21, 2002 >How low is to low to get out at in an emergency?If:a) the pilot orders it orb) the pilot has "left the premises" so to speak (is no longer flying the plane, either physically or mentally)then I would get out pretty low. In general, I'd get out as low as 200 feet. I was once involved in some rig testing, and I was amazed at how often reserves opened in less than 100 feet after a cutaway - and a reserve will open faster from a poised exit than from a cutaway. -bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #8 January 21, 2002 Bill... how about if the pilot has'nt "Left the building"? How low would you get out if the pilot never orders it?I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #9 January 21, 2002 "How low would you get out if the pilot never orders it?"That's going to be a case by case basis but I would STRONGLY recommend against anyone bailing out without pilot approval. Shifting loads during an emergency (especially towards the rear of the aircraft) can cause some nsty things to happen. OTOH....any jump pilot worth his salt should know that jumpers are naturally going to want out and should give clear verbal direction during ANY emergency. .02 "I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #10 January 21, 2002 If the pilot is in control of what's going on, and he tells me not to get out, I wouldn't get out. If he can keep the plane under control, most light plane crashes are pretty survivable even if the terrain is bad.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #11 January 21, 2002 A good example would be the one @ SDTexas last year...then again, we can look at Ags Over Texas Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.-General George Patton- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #12 January 21, 2002 Quote Bill... how about if the pilot has'nt "Left the building"? How low would you get out if the pilot never orders it? If the pilot has the airplane under control, don't get out unless he says so......regardless of altitude.. If he says get out, assuming a safe altitude for an exit, get out.. I have only had to get out once due to a mechanical problem, which was an engine failure in a 182 at about 1200ft, and the pilot kept pulling back on the yoke and stalled the plane.......I rolled out the door then, and watched 3 others exit immediately after me..Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #13 January 21, 2002 it would depend on the aircraft and pilot for me. i know shifting weight can really screw up a pilot's day. and we all know the rules, the pilot is in control of the aircraft, as well as the exit of the jumpers. so follow the rules? i will. unless the pilot is obviously hypoxic, or otherwise that is. but to answer the question, i would have no problem bailing at 55 AGL and deploying my reserve.Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #14 January 21, 2002 55 feet AGL? or 5500 AGL? BIG difference. 55 and its death. 5500... If you can't get out that low you need to get out of the sport.I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #15 January 22, 2002 sorry, that was a typo. i meant 500 AGL. but hell, i believe i could survive a 55' fall. be a hell of a plf! J/KRichard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #16 January 22, 2002 You believe you could survive from 50 feet? I watched two friends die this year from a canopy collision at 50 feet. It was pretty much instantaneous lights out. Watch out for what you wish for.Chris SchindlerD-19012ATP/CFIIwww.DiverDriver.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #17 January 22, 2002 I took care of a guy that fell off of a 12 story building in chicago and landed right on the good ol clay they were building it on...He lived....took care of a guy that fell off of a horse...He died....marc"...a mind stretched with new idea's will never regain its shape" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
prost 0 #18 January 22, 2002 See, the higher the better.William Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #19 January 22, 2002 Just to say that anything can happen.....marc"...a mind stretched with new idea's will never regain its shape" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #20 February 4, 2002 Have to call it on a case by case basis.. I was tought "providing the pilot tells you to get out" to exit with both hands on the reserve rip cord, hit the wind and BAM!! The reserve should be open in no time. If the pilot was unconsious or left the building? I'd get the hell out and take my chances with the reserve. If the plane was on fire I would get the hell out or if I got the impression he didn't know what the hell he was doing I would get the hell out. One thing is for sure I wouldn't hesitate if told to get out.Blue Skies and Smooth Rides!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #21 February 4, 2002 Ever see Indiana Jones & The Temple of Doom? How low for bailing out with an inflatable raft.........? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
