slotperfect 7 #1 March 1, 2004 Tandem Instructors: when you board the aircraft, how is your student's harness adjusted? For the sake of this poll, let's assume that all Tandem Instructors make small final adjustments prior to hookup. It's not those minor adjustments that I am asking about. Thanks.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 March 1, 2004 (This is on a RWS Sigma for me). For me, the harness is mostly adjusted before we board the plane, although part of the harness is left a bit loose for student comfort and to facilitate an easy hookup. The only two adjustments (besides the obvious side laterals) are the MLW and some minor adjustments on the diagonals. Basically, if I needed to, I could leave the plane as is and the student would be fine, they would hang a bit low under canopy, but thats it.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pullhigh 0 #3 March 1, 2004 I have the harness ready for hook up before boarding the aircraft. Once we're at 11,000 or so, I start my connections, and the harness is double checked, but already snug. Ganja Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mfrese 0 #4 March 1, 2004 I'm using a Sigma harness with a Vector II or Eclipse tandem system, and if I have a choice, they climb on the plane with the harness adjusted properly and ready to exit.Doctor I ain't gonna die, Just write me an alibi! ---- Lemmy/Slash Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #5 March 1, 2004 QuoteTandem Instructors: when you board the aircraft, how is your student's harness adjusted? For the sake of this poll, let's assume that all Tandem Instructors make small final adjustments prior to hookup. It's not those minor adjustments that I am asking about. Thanks. You know my answer, John. They leave the school building ready to skydive. They walk to the airplane ready to skydive. They get in the plane ready to skydive, then ride to altitude ready to skydive, then they get hooked up and leave the plane with me. I loathe the way they do it at the "other end of the building" (GK tandem section) at Raeford. It's the same horrible feeling I get in my stomach when I visit some other very-busy dropzones (like CrossKeys). I don't buy the "it's too uncomfortable" story. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdctlc 0 #6 March 1, 2004 I have my passengers/students ready to jump with the harness tightened to "Jump Ready" before getting onto the airplane. I hook up the clips at the correct time before the jump on the way up but hold off until a few minutes prior for final tightening the lateral straps. It is the only real comfort issue I give to the student, espically when comming out of a 182. I try and do the same flow every time and it is in my head as the pattren I use. As a result I dont have any problems and the student is ready to jump as soon as the clips are on.. Just my way of doing it!! Scott C."He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #7 March 2, 2004 I have the student's harness 90% ready before they board the plane. During my last equipment check I tighten the shoulder/MLW straps a bit more and slack off the belly band. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skytribe 17 #8 May 24, 2004 I work at CK and I'm of similar opinion to yourself in many respect. All my students get on the plane ready to leave it as do I. No straps need to be tightened or adjusted in the plane. If I'm turning which I rarely do out of choice - I will check the student and my own harness prior to climbing on plane. No exceptions. Other staff do leave the harnesses a little slacker (there personal choice/style) but I dont see any students getting on plane with harnesses that slack they need to be tightened up drastically before leaving. Simply a comfort factor thing. CK in summer is busy - we have people in hanger specifically gearing students up ( hanger master ). The are briefed by an instructor as a group when gearing up and personally I reconfirm details with all students prior to jumping with them. As I check the harness is adjusted to my liking. It is ultimately the instructors responsibility to ensure the students harness is fitted prior to jumping. I have jumped for over 13 years and have travelled to DZ's around the world. Cross Keys is busy in the summer but does nothing that would give me cause for concern. Sure spending half an hour with students would be great but commercial reality is that most people are not coming to get into the sport - just for a once in a lifetime thrill ride experience. The staff and procedures at Cross Keys cater to that in professional manner. Literally thousands of tandem jumps made without incident are probably testement to that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #9 May 25, 2004 For me the harness is ready to jump. Often i will make a small adjustment to the MLW and belly band prior to exit, but they are ready to go (with me) when they board the A/C. As for being hooked up. Well I used to have the student hooked to me for the entire ride above 1000 ft AGL. In the Caravans at my old DZ we had benches you sat astride. So when the student got on the A/C I had them sit infront of me and put on a seat belt. Then at 1000 ft when we took our seat belts off I'd clip in the lower lateral connectors, and leave them a bit loose. Time to go came and it was simple to cinch up the laterals, and pop on the two shoulder hooks. Now at the Otter/Shyvan DZ I work for I tend not to hook up till about 8 or 9 grand. Not nearly as comfortable. If we are a load with all tandems and I'm sitting near the door I put myself between the student and the door, sometimes clipping their left shoulder to my right or their right to my left depending on which side of the A/C we are on if the door is going to be open for cooling reasons.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanglesOZQld 0 #10 May 29, 2006 As standard we also have everything ready to go if something were to happen (90% tight) and the students would be hanging lower but still secure in this situation. The 10% left is done about 4 grand lower than exit height. I am not racist but I HATE "RUSSIAN" to get ready before a jump! ;) Usually the diagonals are done already, the lower adjusters are tightened and the belly strap loosened and the top clips tightened and excess webbing stowed. -Mark. "A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #11 May 29, 2006 As a rule, my students are geared up, trained and walked to the plane by me. They are ready to jump when they get on the aircraft. I explain to each of them, that the harness is not meant for comfort, it serves only one purpose: to hold you to me...cause I have the parachute and you don't. Safety comes before comfort. Now I will admit that on busy days, when going back to back, I have taken students that were not geared up by me. As soon as the seat belt comes off, I adjust their harness to my liking. If the harness is hanging off the student, they don't get on the plane. I want my students to enjoy their experience. However their comfort is not one of my main concerns.JJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sid 1 #12 May 30, 2006 Quote They leave the school building ready to skydive. They walk to the airplane ready to skydive. They get in the plane ready to skydive, then ride to altitude ready to skydive, then they get hooked up and leave the plane with me. Chuck Fuck - I HATE it when I agree with Chuck! Great Answer SM1! I cringe when I see them in the plane - shoulder straps falling off - I often wonder what an emergency exit would look like..............Pete Draper, Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #13 May 30, 2006 I put the harness on 90% at first and just prior to emplaning i tighten it 100% as when the student sits on the floor of the aircraft the harness loosens (like everones) anyway. i do tweak the MLW a little when i snapp the top snaps. as a photographer i have seen to often TM's that crank up the MLW when sitting in the plane and then they wonder why the student can't arch!!! fucking idiots! they don't even get it when they stand up on the ground and the student cant even physically stand up because the harness is too tight. and if you try to tell them.... well watch out! My pet hate!"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billeisele 130 #14 May 30, 2006 100% ready to go except for the frap hat and goggles hook up at 9K, any final minor adjustments (if necessary) are done, frap hat on, goggles on when the door opensGive one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybeergodd 0 #15 May 31, 2006 I am totally amazed at the 90% ready to go for the student harness. Do YOU get on the plane with your gear 90% ready to go? That crap is absolutely 100% unacceptable. I am a tandem I/E and on my DZ if I see a student get on the plane anything less than 100% ready to go then I can guarantee that instructor will be 100% GROUNDED. I still cannot fathom why anyone would let their student on the plane not ready to go. I just have 1 question for all you 90% people out there.......DO YOU TELL THE STUDENT THAT YOU ARE COMPROMISING THEIR SAFETY FOR COMFORT? THINK BEFORE TAKING A STUDENT ON A JUMP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
karlm 0 #16 May 31, 2006 My student is ready to skydive when the walk to the plane, and ready to skydive when they at 1000ft or 11 000ft. We jusp a Porter, and I sit behind the pilot, and have my student straddle the bench like me, the bottom connectors are clipped, and a full gear check is done at 100ft, including the student harness. At about 9000ft (we jump from 11000ft) I get the hook up started, and the only thing I adjust again in the MLW and double check the whole system again. And then run the skydive again with my student, at the 2 minute call I get the goggles on the student, and go have fun. This past weekend, I turned the whole day, and most often than not my student walked to the aircraft with the camera flyers, while I waited for the rig to be packed, I pack my own drogue. And the student does not climb into the aircraft until I have done a once over on the harness. My diagonal laterals are tight along with the butt band, it's a thing that I was taught by both Bill Booth and Egon Sussman while in FL last year getting my rating. Better never to have met you in my dream than to wake and reach for hands that are not there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 21 #17 May 31, 2006 Enter the aircraft prepared to jump My motto, be it my personal gear, any student under my supervision, and my advice to pilots wearing emergency parachutes. (And of course I tighten Tandem student harnesses when their position in the aircraft provides any opportunity at all.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
douwanto 22 #18 June 1, 2006 I am with Chuch on this one. My students dont get on the plane unless the harness is tight and ready to skydive. The same goes for me rig, I will not board the plane until the rig is fully adjusted for my skydive(no loose leg straps or loose chest strap). I also check the harness on the way to alltitude and make tighten any thing that has moved right before hookup. After the laterials are as tight as I can get them I take up to 2 inches out of the main lift web if needed. If the hup junction is on the hip this wont affect the arch. If it is more foward it will. so I keep that in mind. on the. new sigma harness the back adjustments that go to the leg straps can and will move when the student sits and moves. They should always be checked just prior to hook up and exit. Uncle/GrandPapa Whit Unico Rodriguez # 245 Muff Brother # 2421 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #19 June 1, 2006 This arrived yesterday: Safety & Training Newsletter A Bulletin for the training community Vol. 6, Issue 3 May 31, 2006 Tandem Bulletin JOINT STATEMENT FROM THE U.S. PARACHUTE ASSOCIATION AND THE PARACHUTE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION Within the last seven months there have been two U.S. tandem fatalities in which the student/passenger has fallen out of the harness upon opening shock. In one case the person went under the back strap, and in the other, over the back strap. As circumstances of these two fatalities are being examined by multiple parties, it is imperative that tandem instructors and safety personnel examine and review tandem harness fitting and adjustment procedures available from the manufacturers. Schools and centers with tandem operations should review tandem adjustments for varying body types while simulating opening positions/sequences on the ground to ensure a full understanding of potentially hazardous body shifting which can occur during freefall and opening. Tandem manufacturers should examine their respective systems to ensure that unusual opening attitudes, varying body sizes/shapes, and recommended instructor procedures will provide student/passenger security within the harness, particularly during the opening sequenceArrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schoenauer 0 #20 June 1, 2006 QuoteThey leave the school building ready to skydive. I agree my student leaves the school building ready to skydive all we have to do is hook up. They will get a gear check before boarding with tightening to the harness as needed because the harness will loosen up slightly when walked in. I will make an adjustment only to the belly strap on the aircraft so the student may breath but to no other. I fit the harness to the student while they are standing. The way I see things, while on the airplane the student is sitting, definitely slouching so adjusting the lifts or diagonals to the harness may create a miss fit. Depending on aircraft I start hooking up the side straps and tightening them down between 2K and 4K. The shoulder connections are made 3K feet before exit. I make two equipment checks one after side straps locked and tight and the other after the shoulders are hook up.Memento Mori Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flipper 0 #21 June 2, 2006 Harness fully tightened & hooked up before take off Flipper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
clint 1 #22 June 3, 2006 Vector II, Sigma Harness Ready to jump prior to boarding. WHen all hooked up, I pull the top straps an extra 2" or so. Then exit. -Clint MacBeth Skydive Moab 435 259 JUMP M.O.A.B. Mother Of All Boogies Sept 19 - 23, 2012 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites