Hookin' up tandems

[Jessica 0]

All righty...I recently was on a load where there were also one tandem and two hop n pops out of a smallish plane.
Hop n pops got out at 5K. Tandem instructor didn't hook up student. That made me really nervous. What if, God forbid, a hop n popper's pilot chute escaped and ripped off the tail or something? Ya know?
Should I have said something? Am I being crazy anal?
Pet me! I'm harmless and cute!

[Geoff 0]

I agree with you.
Here in the UK, tandem passengers have to be hooked up before take-off. It seems highly dangerous to have a plane door open when someone inside is neither restrained nor attached to a parachute. (if that is the situation you're describing)
Geoff

[riggerrob 643]

I think the Strong textbook says that tandem students have to be hooked up any time the door is open.
Strong also says that you cannot have tandems and static-liners on the same load.
I usually wait until 4500' before hooking up tandem students, since that is the minimum altitude that I will do an emergency exit from.

[markbaur 0]

It's okay to be concerned about a low-probability event with significant consequences, but there's more to it than just being ready to go any time the door is open. Some things to consider:
First, what are the consequences of the tandem instructor moving around inside the airplane? Is there a chance he or she could dislodge handles or snag equipment while attaching or detaching the passenger?
Second, how likely is catastropic aircraft failure from parachute problems, and how does that compare with problems (in the aircraft or on the jump) resulting from tandems moving in the aircraft?
Third, how important is the size of the aircraft? Would you accept unbuckled tandem passengers in a Twin Otter? How about a 182? How about something in between, like a Caravan?
Fourth, how would you deal with airplanes that take off with a door open, like the plexiglass door on the tailgate of Eloy's Skyvan in the summer?
On balance, I think the tandem instructor's decision to avoid movement can be easily defended.
Mark

[billvon 2,991]

>Hop n pops got out at 5K. Tandem instructor didn't hook up student. That made me really nervous.
>What if, God forbid, a hop n popper's pilot chute escaped and ripped off the tail or something? Ya know?
Generally, in such a situation, I try to make sure that a) the student has his seat belt on or b) he is attached at least one point to me. I can hook up the uppers in less time than it takes to get to the door of an otter, and those two attachement points are more than sufficient to keep us together for a bailout. My bigger fear is that he loses his mind and just dives out when the door opens at the lower altitude. Despite movies to the contrary (and despite AFF training to do almost exactly that) I doubt I could catch him in freefall and connect him.
-bill von

[prost 0]

Go to www.relativeworkshop.com and click on tandems and read the tandem fatalities. # 1 says "TI attempted to hook up student in free-fall (no drogue). " I would like to know the circumstances to this.
William

[riggerrob 643]

"TI attempted to hook up student in freefall (no drogue)."
As I understand it, this was similar to an incident in Perris during the late 1990s.
The TI in Perris got distracted - by the student fumbling with her goggles - during the climb. He hooked up the side connectors, but was too rushed to remember the shoulder hooks. Once out in freefall, he realized his error and opened his main. The opening was probably uncomfortable on his crotch considering that the student was hanging from only the side straps, but the key point is that he lived.
I have also heard of another TI who realized his error after exit, clipped the shoulder hooks in freefall and opened normally.
If I ever get that far behind the power curve, I plan to try once, try twice to hook up the shoulders, then grit my teeth and open my main.
All tandem student harnesses are designed to take the entire opening shock on one hook.

[prost 0]

but this incident was a fatality. So I assume they were not hooked up at all.
William

[fonz 0]

Quote

an incident in Perris during the late 1990s.

Any idea who the TM in question was? Can't imagine any of the current TMs at Perris to make such a mistake.
Alphons
http://www.liacs.nl/~avwerven/skydive

[freeflir29 0]

"Can't imagine any of the current TMs at Perris to make such a mistake."
One thing I have learned about this sport.....Doesn't matter how many jumps you have....ANYONE can make a fatal mistake! ANYONE! I have seen jumpers with over 7,000 do some pretty stupid things.....
"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"
Clay

[fonz 0]

Quote

Doesn't matter how many jumps you have....ANYONE can make a fatal mistake!

You're quite right there, Clay. I may find it hard to believe, but I do realize that it's possible.
Alphons
http://www.liacs.nl/~avwerven/skydive

[freeflir29 0]

"I may find it hard to believe"
Well...it always shocks me when I see someone with really high jump numbers...5-10K or more make a near fatal mistake. It just makes me think...Damn..if they can do it...I certainly would have no problem making an even worse mistake.
"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"
Clay

[Grogs 0]

Quote

Well...it always shocks me when I see someone with really high jump numbers...5-10K or more make a near fatal mistake. It just makes me think...Damn..if they can do it...I certainly would have no problem making an even worse mistake.

I think this just illustrates that jump numbers don't mean everything. I think it's more about attitude. I see some guys with 5000+ who are cautious, get gear checks every jumps, always practice emergency procedures, don't jump in 30mph winds, etc. It's the guy with 5000+ that's hung over and comes running to the plane with his rig in his hand as the engines are firing up that's much more likely to get in trouble. Complacency kills, especially in this sport.
As for the tandem question, in a small plane like that the tandem student should either be buckled in or attached to the TM at all times when the door is open. We actually go so far as to not let the tandems take off their seat belt at all until they're are hooked up to the TM. This applies even (especially) to experienced jumpers we have riding as passengers for evaluation jumps. After all, you never know when instinct will take over and they'll jump out the door as soon as it opens.