peek 21 #1 June 14, 2004 This should interest a number of you that participated in the recent thread "Head protection for Tandem students". I was up flying the 182 Saturday so I competely missed it and everyone told me about it Sunday, including the TI. Evidently no spectators were present, and the winds were so light that no shaggers were present, so the first person to notice was another TI landing afterwards. He was completely unconcious for about a minute after being hit on the chin or thereabouts, and then came to and took a few more minutes to feel right. The student noticed he had a sore head afterwards, but was not hurt. The TI doesn't really know what happened. He tends to kind of lean over students on landing if they are not quite standing and he is, so possibly the student dug in their heels and stopped them suddenly. I'm not sure if anyone asked the student what he thinks happened. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OnYourBack 0 #2 June 14, 2004 I had a student hit me on the chin during the landing once. When I said stand up, he planted his feet and shot straight up hitting me in the chin. I almost bit the tip of my tongue off. Wearing a full face helmet might have helped me but it would be hard to communicate with students like that. No other helmet on me or the student would have done anything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crutch 0 #3 June 15, 2004 Not to be a smart-ass or anything, but how would anything but a full-face helmet have helped here? I am not about to put on something with some vision restrictions (you can't tell me there aren't) to prevent an accident that was preventable in the first place. Maybe I am bragging, but if have never been hit in the chin by a paasenger.blue skies, art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #4 June 15, 2004 QuoteNot to be a smart-ass or anything, but how would anything but a full-face helmet have helped here? I think he means a helmet for the student, like a frap hat. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crutch 0 #5 June 15, 2004 That is my point, not so sure that would have helped either!blue skies, art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #6 June 15, 2004 I have been head-butted by more than one student on sliding landings. Once they get to sliding on their butt, they threw their head back. I promise you that the frap hat they were wearing (always here at Raeford) kept me from getting another scar on my chin and kept me from being knocked out. Just my experience. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
larsrulz 0 #7 June 15, 2004 Frap hats were worn by both TI and student. I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #8 June 15, 2004 he must have caught it right in the kisser then. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 150 #9 June 15, 2004 Bet he doesn't do that again........My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 21 #10 June 16, 2004 QuoteStephen Paige [larsrulz] wrote: Frap hats were worn by both TI and student. Actually Stephen, neither were. I verified this with JC. I'm not sure where you got this idea. I have never seen our TI use frappe hats on himself or student unless it is cold. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 150 #11 June 16, 2004 This incident shows exactly why the student should have a soft helmet......did this less than bright spark T/M consider the potential problems of a smack in the chops on exit, or during the F/f, or on opening????.........no.....too busy looking cool I think..... What about a crash on takeoff....??? If it hurt, he got what he deserved......or did he blame the rider........My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #12 June 16, 2004 I'm sorry but even if the student had a soft helmet on a hard hit to the jaw of the TM could knock him out. I have seen this often when I am with people that have no apparent injury to the jaw but got knocked out by a lightweight punch to the jaw. I think soft helmet or not he'd of still got punted had he been hit the same way. also to say that someone "deserves" to be hurt isn't so nice now is it? the TI in question isn't a "too cool" guy at all. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crutch 0 #13 June 16, 2004 Quote????.........no.....too busy looking cool I think..... What is this all about? QuoteIf it hurt, he got what he deserved...... And this is even more wrong!blue skies, art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 150 #14 June 16, 2004 Why???......to me this guy has a rating to look after others.....and that is a serious obligation...... Looking after himself is a big part of that, and it doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out a helmet provides more protection than bare heads......what about the crash on takeoff scenario.....?? or the other potential problems......or don't they count??..... It is my experience that people won't wear helmets, or listen to common sense in case its uncool......I could be wrong in this case....... I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who suffer self inflicted (preventable) injury....I'm glad he didn't get seriously hurt......but I hope he learnt a lesson.......... and I don't think this kind of behaviour needs to be validated by people rushing to defend something that is avoidable in the first place......it only helps to perpetuate unacceptable practices........ This event was going to happen...... You tell me why jumping without a soft helmet on your rider is a good idea.......because I can't think of one...........My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #15 June 16, 2004 If that statement was really the truth, then wouldn't our students wear Pro-Tecs (the best helmet for safety available for jumping currently) and have the instructors in full face helmets?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybeergodd 0 #16 June 17, 2004 Hey Gary....just my 2 cents worth but I always 100% of the time wear a frap hat for tandems if not for any other reason but for those huge risers coming 'SLAPPING OPEN" JUST INCHES FROM MY EARS....after 32 years I've grown quite attached to them. I usually don't put helmets on the students(especially hard helmets just for the reason you are describing) unless it is cold and then only a frap hat. I do try to keep my head to one side only in freefall and for landing and for me it is to the students right side. This has prevented me from any head or mouth strikes in exit, freefall or landing in my almost 900 tandems.......This is only the way that I do things and one piece of advise for all TI's reading this thread.......none of us were there or experiencing what that TI was going thru at the time so lets not try to JUDGE him( I know very hard thing for some of the arm chair quarterbacks in here) but just give our experiences and let him draw what he can from that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 150 #17 June 17, 2004 Silly statement for many obvious reasons....... Over 100,000 tandems on the DZ over 15 years......not one facial injury to a T/M in that time...... All riders wear a soft hat....T/M's don't postion any part of their person in the line of fire of a rider induced problem....thru takeoff in the plane till touchdown under canopy..... Simple and obvious.....part of the job........My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crutch 0 #18 June 18, 2004 When it comes to this whole arguement, it reminds me of what my old swim coach use to tell me "opinons are like assholes, everyone has one." That being said, the only time I can ever remember in my 3000+ tandems being hit in the chin by a student...we had landed (standing up), but he leaned over with his hands on his knees like he was unsteady. I stepped around him put my arm around his shoulder to steady him....next thing I know he jumps up and starts dancing around, after of course either his shoulder or elbow got me under the chin. So should I wear a helmet....geez....hmmm....guess not! I have always given students a choice, only one has ever asked to wear one and he did. Not getting off the subject too much, but do you have your students where jumpsuits also?blue skies, art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 150 #19 June 18, 2004 Jumpsuits ....yes...on a commercial DZ with lots of tandems (mainly backpackers and tourists)....a lot would turn up in unsuitable clothes.....made it easy to cater for them.....also jumpsuits protect their clothing.........part of the service.......My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
