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livendive

Post your 2-way drill dives

By livendive, in Instructors

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livendive    8

livendive
So you're jumping with a newbie. He's finished up his A-license card and is either finishing up the 25 jumps or is a fresh A-license recipient. In my experience, the only real thrill of these jumps (for me) is scavenging some of their excitement off of them and enjoying their grins. I mean, it's a 2-way...usually not very challenging (unless they forget everything they learned in their student program). So...we humans are usually creatures of habit; what 2-way's do you find yourself usually doing? Anyone have anything outside of the standard turns, open & compressed accordians, cats, and sidebodies? Something that's inherently fun for both the student and the instructor and yet provides some skill improvement for the novice (i.e. not freeflying, tube exit (69 in a 2-way), or helicoptoring)?

Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

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NWFlyer    2

NWFlyer
Quote

the only real thrill of these jumps (for me) is scavenging some of their excitement off of them and enjoying their grins



You mean sneaking in the unexpected kiss pass isn't a thrill for you, Dave? ;)

Seriously, though, I'm interested in the responses to this as well since I'm still a relative noob myself and it would be nice to come into jumps with some ideas of my own for a change.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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Brian425    0

Brian425
I hope you don't mind a newbie posting on this thread. I am the newbie jumping with you guys.

In the beginning I had the experienced person fly base and I would do various things with them. 360's focus on eye contact (old picture, new picture), forward, back and side movement and dock on side.

So a basic jump would be right 360, back up, dock, left 360, slide right and dock on side of base, move back to front.

I found that it is easier to plan only 2 or 3 moves to make a successful dive and add 1 or 2 bonus moves. Also I felt that is was easiest to do what ever I was having the most problems with as the 1st or 2nd move and have the dive get easier as it goes on.

Oh and by the way, a big THANKS to all you guys who come to jump with the newbies. It really means a lot.

Brian


The only time you should look down on someone is when you are offering them your hand.

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Ron    10

Ron
I have TONS of two way drills.

90,180,270,360,540 Turns one at a time. Starting from a star changing directions on each turn.

Star, slide. Starting from 2 people in "star" with the other two missing. #1 side slides down #2 till they build a "Bipole". Then #2 person cracks a 180 to rebuild the "star" and then slides down #1 to the bipole.

Open accordian to Bipole...Standard 180 degree turns.

Open Accordian to opposite Bipole. Starting from an open acc (say left hand) translate left while doing a 90 degree left turn to a bipole.

I got more, but these are good ones.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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livendive    8

livendive
When you say two-way bipole, you're talking about bumping feet, right? That thought hadn't occurred to me because there are no grips to take, but it's also what I was looking for. It might give me the chance to chase someone while backing up (not something I have to do very often because bases on which back-ins might be planned can usually fall straight down). It also has the cool skills improvement aspect for teaching back-ins because it'd be easy to get a little separation and make them slide back to the "dock". Thanks Ron. ;)

Edit to add: Oops...now that I think about it, you were probably talking about two people next to each other in the the star-bipole, not facing-outfacing each other. It did seem a *little* aggressive to be teaching back-ins this early in their career. :D

On the 90-180-270-360-540, you just fly base and have them do all the turns? So it's round-sidebody-sidebody-cat-cat-round?

Blues
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

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feuergnom    28

feuergnom
when i coach students i ususally tend to learn them fly all the standards in a 2-way "no contact". reason for this: once they take a grip they tend to get lazy, make short legs and slip out of the sequence once grips are released i.e. don't stop flying when taking a grip. this also teaches them how to keep a constant fall-rate.
in fact i like no-contact rw :)
The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

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Ron    10

Ron
Quote

On the 90-180-270-360-540, you just fly base and have them do all the turns?



Yes, then you take a turn so they can take a break and watch you. Plus it teaches grip discipline.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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VanillaSkyGirl    6

VanillaSkyGirl
Quote

Quote

On the 90-180-270-360-540, you just fly base and have them do all the turns?



Yes, then you take a turn so they can take a break and watch you. Plus it teaches grip discipline.




When I was a much less experienced flyer (although I obviously still don't have too much more experience), I did 10 minutes in the tunnel with Rusty from Orlando Skyventure. He had some really fun and creative drill dives for me, among them the "90-180-270-360-540 turn" drill dive.

Rusty surprised me because I had assumed that as my coach, he would be base and not move, only to take grips or let me take grips. (At least, that was the original plan.) Well, Rusty threw in 360s (sidebuddies, among others...even partially mimicking or mirroring my moves on other drill dives) and cogged along with me at crucial points on every single drill dive, which I was completely not expecting. :D It was some of the MOST FUN "simple" 2-ways that I've done because it was so much more interactive than if he had been base. His cogging along with me pushed me even harder and made me want to turn faster, too. (This was partially from fear, since his bootie was just missing the side of my full-face, every time.:ph34r:)

I don't know if what Rusty did with me would help you at all with your skydives with newer jumpers. Maybe it should be reserved for students that can turn 360s on centerpoint, but I have to say that 10 minutes with Rusty was a tunnel session that I obviously didn't forget. He was having so much fun. :D

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popsjumper    2

popsjumper
I usually try to focus them on:

Dive and Docks
- Dive exit and let them dock
- back away and let them dock
- side slide and let them dock

Fall rate
- Star up and down
- closed accordian up and down
- Sidebody up and down

Turns
- Eye contact
- Turn in place

Grips
- No contact
- Flat palm touch, no grasping

I don't know if that applies to what you are asking.

As far as simple formations I like the roundabout (or so I call it)
Star-Acc-Sidebody-Cat-Sidebody-Acc-Star
with me laying base and them doing the flying around the horn.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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Zoso    2

Zoso
Dave,

I don't have any instructional ratings but I do have a fond memory of a drill dive someone did for me.

The dive:

I was to exit stable and hold my heading. He (Doug Sprauer) would dock on me for a 2 way star. Next, Doug would let go and backslide 10-15 feet, make sure I was holding my position, then wave for me to approach and dock on him. Then he would cue for me to let go, backslide, wait for his cue and come forward to dock on him again.

The Jump:

Jumping from a C182, Doug surprised my by docking while still on the hill. He let go, backslid, and indicated for me to approach and dock. I approached and docked. Here's the best part. As soon as I docked, Doug yelled "YEAH!!!!!!!!!!" loud enough that I heard it in freefall! I was the happiest skydiver in the world at that second. I let go, backslid, waited for his signal and approached for another successful dock. Again I heard him yell "YEAH!!!!!!!!!!". I was stoked big-time!

I will never forget that jump. The drill itself made perfect sense but the encouragement and excitement of hearing him chear like that blew me away. Many people have helped me in a similar fashion (most, like Doug, for free). No one, however, has fired me up quite like that. And it was so simple.

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GreenMachine    0

GreenMachine
I like what Andy/Popsjumper posted!

I usually tell the newbie that we are going to do all of the coach jumps in 1 dive and then some --- freefly the exit, swoop & dock, adjusted fall rate, etc.

Don't know who else above mentioned it but I definitely like the dive flows to be easy for the newbie to remember so I do not get too hung up with them focusing on what is next but more about flying their body.

I will tell them the pattern will be simple, I move, you come to me, I present, you dock, we check altitude, repeat till 5K. Of course if they are flying well and heads up there is always the chance they'll get a fruit-loop just before 5K ;)
Rigger, Skydiver, BASE Jumper, Retired TM

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wildfan75    1

wildfan75
One of the funnest 2 way jumps I did not so long ago was playing tag. Got me moving front to back, left to right, up and down.

On a side, humorous note, last week I was watching video of a bunch of my student jumps and I kept watching this jump over and over again and I was thinking, "Gees, I fight like hell to get to Bauer and then I totally backslide." Then I realized this was my tag video and I wasn't moving away, she was.

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StreetScooby    5

StreetScooby
Quote


I have TONS of two way drills.

90,180,270,360,540 Turns one at a time. Starting from a star changing directions on each turn.

Star, slide. Starting from 2 people in "star" with the other two missing. #1 side slides down #2 till they build a "Bipole". Then #2 person cracks a 180 to rebuild the "star" and then slides down #1 to the bipole.

Open accordian to Bipole...Standard 180 degree turns.

Open Accordian to opposite Bipole. Starting from an open acc (say left hand) translate left while doing a 90 degree left turn to a bipole.

I got more, but these are good ones.



I absolutely love facing off and doing nothing but 360s in place. One person does a 360 left, then right. Then, the other person does that. Rinse, repeat.

Here's the kicker. The turns must be in place, and the other person can't move while it's happening. Difficult for newbies to figure that out.

Once you've got that, go out and both skydivers do 360s at the same time in place. Peripheral motion awareness is developed.
We are all engines of karma

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ZigZagMarquis    9

ZigZagMarquis
Usually what I'll do with low timers is something like this:

Launch a R/H Compressed, you outside, newbie inside.
L/H Compressed
R/H Open
L/H Open
Snowflake
Have the low timer do a 360
Snowflake
Repeat

The TLOs are:
- Don't noodle arm the exit, arch. A 2-way compressed out the door is fairly bullet proof as long as both parties block it out and arch and depending on how low time the newbie is, they've probably never launched anything like that and will be stoaked by it.
- On the R/H to L/H compressed transition its a fall rate and proximity thing... Eye Contact!
- Same goes for the R/H & L/H Opens & flying with your legs and not reaching!
- On the 360, just have the newbie turn the 360 and you just lay base for them so they can see if they're sliding around and make them come back if they do.
- Usually, I'll help them with the fall rate and make them correct most if not all of the horizontal seperation if / as it happens during the jump.

-----

Okay, Livendive... you think even a couple of high time jumpers can't have fun on a 2-way dive?? Try this one... do ALL the 2-way points:

R/H compressed
L/H compressed
Side body
Side body
R/H Open
L/H Open
Stair Step
Stair Step
Cat
Cat
Snowflake
360
Snowflake

You should be able to get through it 2 to 3 times.

;)

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ZigZagMarquis    9

ZigZagMarquis
Quote

Quote

What's a snowflake? In the 4-way divepool it's a pair of cats pinned together...



A snowflake of a fluffy piece of frozen water that makes unique shapes

- or -

The cat on the Simpsons...



:S

... in skydiving... for 2 people, it would be what most would call a "2-Way"... what lots of folks call a "Round" of any number of folks also is called a snowflake sometimes.

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rehmwa    2

rehmwa
Quote

What's a snowflake? In the 4-way divepool it's a pair of cats pinned together...



I think this is right:

Flake grip - a compressed or a cat attachment by an outer ring person. Snowflake is specifically a round of some kind with all round people having a cat partner in the outer ring (4way is 2 cats, 6 way is 3 cats, est). Snowflake doesn't make any sense in a 2 way (it would be either a round or a cat).

Open Accordian grip- left hand to left hand or right hand to right hand

line grip - right hand to left hand or left hand to right hand

stairstep grip - right hand to left leg or left hand to right leg

bipole grip (donut grip) - right hand to right leg or left hand to left leg

cat grip - both hands to both knees

star - all in a closed inward facing circle with line grips

sidebody - both grips on one side of the other (arm and leg)

Interlock - legs locked

I don't think there's a term for the two possible single leg type "grips" -

all the above assume in plane and all on belly, or the combinations go up

It defines all the combinations I think and extends to other terms. For example:

Pod grip- a 2way on one person's legs (though in a 3 way this would be a murphy) (consists of 2 bipole grips and 1 stairstep grip)

Murphy - everyone faces in except one person facing out (consists of a bunch of line grips and 2 bipole grips)

4way try the meeker - 1 open acc grip, 2 bipole/donut grips, 2 stairstep grips

etc.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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