Hooknswoop 19 #1 August 8, 2005 TI's, what percentage of your landings are stand-ups? Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdctlc 0 #2 August 8, 2005 probably 40% +/- a little.... I would rather be on the side of caution and slide in, it is easy and soft 95+ % of the time. Unless the wind is there and constand no reason to try it as the benefit does not seem to give the risk reward value up enough. I dont have a desire to have the tandem passanger trip or not step when trying to land resulting in a fun landing on top of them as we fall forward OR doing the hollywood side flop to have both of us hit. Sliding is easier. If the wind is right then stand ups are prety easy. Then again you have other factors to look at, pax size and canopy your jumping. All that looked at, I will stick with about 40% stand ups..... Scott C."He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #3 August 8, 2005 ~10% I rarely try. The sliding landing is the safest way to go. I only stand if I have a little person or if I have a catcher right there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #4 August 8, 2005 80% stand up - 20% butt slide. Never injured a passenger. Be safe. Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #5 August 8, 2005 There's a good lightweight tandem instructor at my dropzone that's apparently very good at pillow soft standup tandem landings. I think he's the favourite tandem instructor for the kids (the late teens of legal jumping age, and the early 20's), since he works with them for a living in his other job. Stands the tandems up most of the time (as far as I've watched anyway). But he's not afraid to slide it in if it is safer. I'd guesstimate 80% of the time, he stands them up (from what I witnessed). I think (as far as I know), most of the others slide it in, but he seems to be the lightweight one with usually lightweight passengers. The passengers are absolutely delighted, as always! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liemberg 0 #6 August 8, 2005 QuoteTI's, what percentage of your landings are stand-ups? Seems to be a function of 'chosen weapon' (canopy), passenger weight and windspeed... Is there a mathematician in the audience? BTW, the funniest one I had a couple of days ago. My passenger was a completely deaf girl with whom I had worked out some sort of 'tandem sign language' with handsignals for "Are you OK?" "Do you want me to make a fast turn under canopy?" etcetera. So I shook the toggles and she let them go, I gave here a light kick against her legs and she assumed the landing position (tapped her hand and knee and she grabbed her knees..."sorry, forgot!") and then I flared and tried to stand up... She tried to slide... Don't try to stand up when your passenger tries to sit down - you will look silly... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John4455 0 #7 August 8, 2005 Quote 80% stand up - 20% butt slide. Never injured a passenger. On what type of gear? Be safe. Ed How do ya like it Johnny? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #8 August 8, 2005 60% slide, 40% standupArrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #9 August 8, 2005 80% slide 20% stand up with SET 400s winds light and variable When we have steady winds, I get a higher percentage of standups, but a lot of students suffer "jelly knees" so I have to hold them up 30 seconds after landing. My old knees are not strong enough to hold large students. The worst possible scenario is when I try to stand up, but the student tries to sit. This often results in aggravating the bruise on my right knee cap or aggravating the arthritis in my left knee. So sit/slide landings are always the safe bet for preserving TIs mortal flesh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #10 August 8, 2005 I figure I had about 80+% stand-ups. I would have my feet wide, slide on my feet in light winds and lean way back, keeping the passenger's weight over my hips. If a soft stand-up wasn't assured, I could continue to lean back till we slide, leaning on the canopy. This also prevented us from running over the passengers' feet since they couldn't reach the ground. IF the passenger was trying to slide or stand-up, it didn't matter since I had their weight on my hips. 800+ tandems, no injuries. Most of those had the passenger following through the toggles for the entire canopy ride including the flare. This would allow me to reach up the lines as the student held the toggles down and grab the steering lines and pull them down to collapse the canopy very quickly. With some of the bigger sudents, 200+ lbs, and light winds, I stood a few up but usualy concentrated on a soft touch down with a good slide. I would hook their ankles with my feet to keep their legs up to prevent them from putting a foot down and us running that leg over. If they slumped way down into the harness after opening, I would slide on my feet to a stop, keeping their weight on my, making sure That I either continued to stand up or sat down behind the student. I have seen too many TI's do that finishing by falling foward onto the student. Done right, starting with a stand-up and keeping the slide in reserve is the safest way to land a tandem, imo. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
des 2 #11 August 8, 2005 one of the instuctors here, stands up 100%, (he posted in canopy comparison thread), the rest of us stand up in the 90%'s. but we do land on the beach, with smooth steady winds, and we do use the HOP canopies. in normal dropzone conditions , i thinka 50% stand up ratio would be pretty good Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #12 August 8, 2005 QuoteOn what type of gear? Mostly Icarus 330-365 and some with Set 400's Be safe. Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #13 August 8, 2005 Probably 40-50%. My default is to slide, but I'll go ahead stand up with a light passenger or a little breeze, unless they're substantially taller than me. The past two weekends I've been acclimating to unfamiliar canopies & elevations so I slid most of them in, but that'll change as I grow accustomed to the changes. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linestretch 0 #14 August 9, 2005 80-90%... SET-400'smy pics & stuff! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aironscott 3 #15 August 9, 2005 It depends what we are talking about. I, myself, don't often slide in on my butt. But my passenger gets sat down on their butt 95+% of the time. I slide in on my feet and support their wieght until we've come to a complete and total stop. I'm not saying that I can't stand most of my students up, but why risk it? It is much cooler looking to sit a student down safely on their butt than it is to risk standing them up and have them break an ankle. Not to mention how much safer it is to me to have them get their feet up and out of my way so I can properly exicute a safe landing. Think Aaron I wonder how many accidents have occured from people getting crappy information from this web site.“God Damn Mountain Dew MotherFuckers!” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skydive_volker 0 #16 August 9, 2005 QuoteI, myself, don't often slide in on my butt. But my passenger gets sat down on their butt 95+% of the time. I slide in on my feet and support their wieght until we've come to a complete and total stop. I'm not saying that I can't stand most of my--end of quote --- hi aironscott, i didn't get this. where are your feet? do you have them wide on the side of the passenger or do you have them under the passenger? how does it work if you stand up and the passenger sits??? or did i get you wrong? i just started doing tandems end of last season and only have about 80 tandems. since i use different canopy types and sizes on almost all of my tandems (club gears in germany) i have not really gotten used to any canopy yet. i prefer slight-in-landings (95%), where i have the passenger lift up their legs and i support their legs with mine(if neccessary) to lift them up even higher. worked out well every time but once... i have also seen some other ti falling over their passengers while trying to stand up. i don't think it is woth it... however, it happened to me the other day that the passenger did not have his legs up far enough. i tried to support him and apparently did not get my feet up high enough--so i got caught in the grass and i twisted my ankle. any suggestions how to prevent anything like this? any inputs are appreciated! Volker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matthewcline 0 #17 August 9, 2005 The landing tech. described is the same one the Army Tandem Team uses. I think you can see some video or pics of it at the DZ web page that hosted the Pres birthday bash jumps (but it eludes me right now)An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites scrublink 0 #18 August 10, 2005 I never make up my mind until the end. That sounds pretty bad. Let me explain. I always prep my student for a slide in landing. I have them practice a couple while I flare at altitude so they get a sense of how the canopy will slow. I then advise them that under no circumstances will they put their feet down unless they hear me distinctly say "stand up" or "feet down". This seems to work. I slide most people in on their butts and my knees/tops of feet. We have a very grassy landing area. If we have a constant wind or they are small I will just stand up and support their weight until forward movement has stopped and then I have them stand up. I like to keep my training consistent. I don't let first jump students handle the toggles below 750-500 feet (depends on how heads up they are). All my students get the same landing speech that way I am the only one that can change things up if I want. I stood up all my training jumps and then tried to continue that in the real world. The real world was difficult to stand up in. Students are clumsy and way too excited to count on by the end of their first jump. Just my thoughts and opinions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Revillusion 0 #19 August 10, 2005 QuoteI never make up my mind until the end. That sounds pretty bad. Let me explain. I always prep my student for a slide in landing. I have them practice a couple while I flare at altitude so they get a sense of how the canopy will slow. I then advise them that under no circumstances will they put their feet down unless they hear me distinctly say "stand up" or "feet down". This seems to work. I slide most people in on their butts and my knees/tops of feet. We have a very grassy landing area. If we have a constant wind or they are small I will just stand up and support their weight until forward movement has stopped and then I have them stand up. I like to keep my training consistent. I don't let first jump students handle the toggles below 750-500 feet (depends on how heads up they are). All my students get the same landing speech that way I am the only one that can change things up if I want. I stood up all my training jumps and then tried to continue that in the real world. The real world was difficult to stand up in. Students are clumsy and way too excited to count on by the end of their first jump. Just my thoughts and opinions. Very, very well put! That's damn near verbatum how I've done my landings ... Alan VIRTUS JUNXIT MORS NON SEPARABIT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bodypilot1 0 #20 August 10, 2005 QuoteI never make up my mind until the end. That sounds pretty bad. Let me explain. I always prep my student for a slide in landing. That doesn't sound bad..... I think alot of TI's do it that way, if they are wise. I also make it a last second decision to stand, but the student has already been prepared to sit shortly after my canopy controlability check. Be safe. Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #21 August 10, 2005 QuoteI never make up my mind until the end. That sounds pretty bad. Let me explain. I always prep my student for a slide in landing. I have them practice a couple while I flare at altitude so they get a sense of how the canopy will slow. I then advise them that under no circumstances will they put their feet down unless they hear me distinctly say "stand up" or "feet down". This seems to work. I slide most people in on their butts and my knees/tops of feet. We have a very grassy landing area. If we have a constant wind or they are small I will just stand up and support their weight until forward movement has stopped and then I have them stand up. I like to keep my training consistent. I don't let first jump students handle the toggles below 750-500 feet (depends on how heads up they are). All my students get the same landing speech that way I am the only one that can change things up if I want. I stood up all my training jumps and then tried to continue that in the real world. The real world was difficult to stand up in. Students are clumsy and way too excited to count on by the end of their first jump. Just my thoughts and opinions. Well, not just your's. I'm with ya on every point. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DanglesOZQld 0 #22 August 28, 2005 At least 70 percent. Very easy with the HOPS we use and the hard (not) beach landing areas! BSBD! -Mark. "A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites aironscott 3 #23 August 29, 2005 I haven't talked to KB in a few years but I bet he would back me up on this tandem landing program. When you sit them down on their butt, you remove most of the possibility of them breaking a leg bone. I say most because nothing is 100%... but this is the best system that I've seen yet. If you sit them down you are able to quickly release the shoulder attachment points. In windy conditions, you will be able to dis-connect from your student and deal with the big parachute yourself - without a student in tow. That's a good thing. And when its a hot day and the density altitude is up there you really what their feet out of your way so you can do a safe landing. Flips suck Aaron“God Damn Mountain Dew MotherFuckers!” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riddler 0 #24 September 8, 2005 QuoteWhen you sit them down on their butt, you remove most of the possibility of them breaking a leg bone. I'm not a TI, but I've had a few broken/bruised tailbone injuries from skydiving, landing on my butt. Maybe landing on your butt reduces leg injuries, but it seems like it would increase the chance of spinal compression/back injuries. Pick your poison, I guess - I'd rather chance a leg injury. On my first skydive (tandem), I distinctly remember sliding on my butt for about 15 feet. Good thing I was wearing underwear I didn't like On my next AFF jump (level 1), I also landed on my butt (reverting back to the tandem training), and bruised my tailbone. Would've been OK with that, except for the 30-hour flight to Singapore later that week Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shark 0 #25 September 8, 2005 Riddler, Your primary responsibility is the safety of the student. We do what we can to ensure a safe skydive and landings. Many times conditions do not permit stand ups. We don't always have the pleasure of 10+ mph winds and students less than 200 lbs. Congratulations to all those instructors whom are able to stand up all their landings in no-wind conditions with 230 lb. students (male or female.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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matthewcline 0 #17 August 9, 2005 The landing tech. described is the same one the Army Tandem Team uses. I think you can see some video or pics of it at the DZ web page that hosted the Pres birthday bash jumps (but it eludes me right now)An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scrublink 0 #18 August 10, 2005 I never make up my mind until the end. That sounds pretty bad. Let me explain. I always prep my student for a slide in landing. I have them practice a couple while I flare at altitude so they get a sense of how the canopy will slow. I then advise them that under no circumstances will they put their feet down unless they hear me distinctly say "stand up" or "feet down". This seems to work. I slide most people in on their butts and my knees/tops of feet. We have a very grassy landing area. If we have a constant wind or they are small I will just stand up and support their weight until forward movement has stopped and then I have them stand up. I like to keep my training consistent. I don't let first jump students handle the toggles below 750-500 feet (depends on how heads up they are). All my students get the same landing speech that way I am the only one that can change things up if I want. I stood up all my training jumps and then tried to continue that in the real world. The real world was difficult to stand up in. Students are clumsy and way too excited to count on by the end of their first jump. Just my thoughts and opinions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Revillusion 0 #19 August 10, 2005 QuoteI never make up my mind until the end. That sounds pretty bad. Let me explain. I always prep my student for a slide in landing. I have them practice a couple while I flare at altitude so they get a sense of how the canopy will slow. I then advise them that under no circumstances will they put their feet down unless they hear me distinctly say "stand up" or "feet down". This seems to work. I slide most people in on their butts and my knees/tops of feet. We have a very grassy landing area. If we have a constant wind or they are small I will just stand up and support their weight until forward movement has stopped and then I have them stand up. I like to keep my training consistent. I don't let first jump students handle the toggles below 750-500 feet (depends on how heads up they are). All my students get the same landing speech that way I am the only one that can change things up if I want. I stood up all my training jumps and then tried to continue that in the real world. The real world was difficult to stand up in. Students are clumsy and way too excited to count on by the end of their first jump. Just my thoughts and opinions. Very, very well put! That's damn near verbatum how I've done my landings ... Alan VIRTUS JUNXIT MORS NON SEPARABIT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #20 August 10, 2005 QuoteI never make up my mind until the end. That sounds pretty bad. Let me explain. I always prep my student for a slide in landing. That doesn't sound bad..... I think alot of TI's do it that way, if they are wise. I also make it a last second decision to stand, but the student has already been prepared to sit shortly after my canopy controlability check. Be safe. Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #21 August 10, 2005 QuoteI never make up my mind until the end. That sounds pretty bad. Let me explain. I always prep my student for a slide in landing. I have them practice a couple while I flare at altitude so they get a sense of how the canopy will slow. I then advise them that under no circumstances will they put their feet down unless they hear me distinctly say "stand up" or "feet down". This seems to work. I slide most people in on their butts and my knees/tops of feet. We have a very grassy landing area. If we have a constant wind or they are small I will just stand up and support their weight until forward movement has stopped and then I have them stand up. I like to keep my training consistent. I don't let first jump students handle the toggles below 750-500 feet (depends on how heads up they are). All my students get the same landing speech that way I am the only one that can change things up if I want. I stood up all my training jumps and then tried to continue that in the real world. The real world was difficult to stand up in. Students are clumsy and way too excited to count on by the end of their first jump. Just my thoughts and opinions. Well, not just your's. I'm with ya on every point. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanglesOZQld 0 #22 August 28, 2005 At least 70 percent. Very easy with the HOPS we use and the hard (not) beach landing areas! BSBD! -Mark. "A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aironscott 3 #23 August 29, 2005 I haven't talked to KB in a few years but I bet he would back me up on this tandem landing program. When you sit them down on their butt, you remove most of the possibility of them breaking a leg bone. I say most because nothing is 100%... but this is the best system that I've seen yet. If you sit them down you are able to quickly release the shoulder attachment points. In windy conditions, you will be able to dis-connect from your student and deal with the big parachute yourself - without a student in tow. That's a good thing. And when its a hot day and the density altitude is up there you really what their feet out of your way so you can do a safe landing. Flips suck Aaron“God Damn Mountain Dew MotherFuckers!” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #24 September 8, 2005 QuoteWhen you sit them down on their butt, you remove most of the possibility of them breaking a leg bone. I'm not a TI, but I've had a few broken/bruised tailbone injuries from skydiving, landing on my butt. Maybe landing on your butt reduces leg injuries, but it seems like it would increase the chance of spinal compression/back injuries. Pick your poison, I guess - I'd rather chance a leg injury. On my first skydive (tandem), I distinctly remember sliding on my butt for about 15 feet. Good thing I was wearing underwear I didn't like On my next AFF jump (level 1), I also landed on my butt (reverting back to the tandem training), and bruised my tailbone. Would've been OK with that, except for the 30-hour flight to Singapore later that week Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #25 September 8, 2005 Riddler, Your primary responsibility is the safety of the student. We do what we can to ensure a safe skydive and landings. Many times conditions do not permit stand ups. We don't always have the pleasure of 10+ mph winds and students less than 200 lbs. Congratulations to all those instructors whom are able to stand up all their landings in no-wind conditions with 230 lb. students (male or female.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
