rendezvous 0 #1 January 11, 2002 What does it take to become a tandem instructor cost, skill and time wise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fonz 0 #2 January 11, 2002 In Holland, you require:D licenseAt least 3 years in the sportAt least 1000 freefall skydivesAt least 5 hours accumulated freefall timeAt least 1 cutaway, preplanned or notWanting and being able to bear responsibilityPassing practical and written training and examAlphonshttp://www.liacs.nl/~avwerven Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #3 January 11, 2002 500 jumps, 6 hours freefall time, patience with students certification from the manufactor, ,a cutaway or lots of haning harness releases, 3 years in the sport, 10 signed off tandems that are either solos or with another experienced (100+ jumps)jumper, and the ability to deal with 25+ different malfunctions.The tandem malfunction tree diagram is 2 pages long with all sorts of weird ones like side spins (BAD!!! and deadly if not corrected), improper handle release order, Drogue in tow and lots of others. A regular sport jumpers tree is only half a page in size for compairson.That just touches the tip of tandems requirements too....I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #4 January 12, 2002 You also need to pass a Class 3 aircrew medical examination. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #5 January 12, 2002 just a class III and not a Class II commercial huh?marc"...a mind stretched with new idea's will never regain its shape" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #6 January 12, 2002 Quote 25+ different malfunctions That's a lot to remember !! I'm happy just with my possible mals thank you Support the cause - do a skydive(r) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 273 #7 January 13, 2002 Not to mention being in excellent physical condition, possessing excellent freefall and canopy control skills and good medical insurance...Quoteside spins (BAD!!! and deadly if not corrected)Especially if you get into it drogue side down. Did that with my 17th live student, no shit, there we were, thought we were gonna die. Relatively simple to correct if you know what to do, but talk about adrenaline pump!! I thought my heart rate would never return to normal... I watch the video now and wonder what ever possessed me to get a tandem rating.pull and flare,lisa--"Where's my beer?" - Al Stephens "Oh, was this yours? - Lisa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jimbo 0 #8 January 13, 2002 QuoteI watch the video now and wonder what ever possessed me to get a tandem rating.Decent money at a busy DZ? The ability to work almost anywhere? Getting paid to skydive? Being self employed? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 273 #9 January 13, 2002 Three outta four. I was working at a small DZ; doing tandems out of Cessna 182's, 206's and a 411, with a King Air and Otter tossed in just for kicks. Trust me, tandems out of Cessnas are work. And at only $25/jump, the video guy was taking home more than I was for the same number of jumps and taking much less risk with his body.It was cool to not have to work 9-5 Monday through Friday but for awhile there all I did was tandems - it ain't as much fun when every jump you do is with someone strapped to the front of you.pull and flare,lisa--"Where's my beer?" - Al Stephens "Oh, was this yours? - Lisa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites des 2 #10 January 14, 2002 dammit! i know you are right,but i get more enjoyment from a tandem now ,than any other skydive.wierd uh?des Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 273 #11 January 14, 2002 Hey as long as you're having fun it's all good! pull and flare,lisa-- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lazerq3 0 #12 January 15, 2002 Can someone desribe this side spin your talking about? just curiousjason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 273 #13 January 15, 2002 Tandem side spin. Happens prior to the drogue being thrown. Picture a tandem pair on their sides, spinning in either direction. If the pair are arching the spin gets worse (propellor effect). Fix is to bring in all control surfaces (arms of both jumpers to their sides, straighten legs) and flatten out (no more arch). If the pair is on their left sides the TI can throw the drogue up to help bring the pair belly to earth and stop the spin; if the pair are on their right sides this is not an option. If all else fails pulling the reserve will pull the pair out of it, but the reserve is going to open in some nasty, possibly unrecoverable line twists. Has killed several tandem pairs in the past; Bill Morrisey and Ted Strong came up with the fix some years ago and have saved many lives (mine included) since then by distributing the "fix" information The one I was in started right out of the door (exited at 10,500) and was "drogue side down" (right sides of our bodies toward the ground) so I couldn't throw the drogue to stop the spin. I did as I was taught and within about 6 more revolutions we went face to earth and I got the drogue out. Checked altitude and we were at 6500 feet; waited for my camera guy to catch up, waved and let him know we were okay then dumped. If anyone wants to see the video look me up at Perris some day; I'd be glad to show it to any person who does tandems or is considering it.pull and flare,lisa-- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lazerq3 0 #14 January 15, 2002 Ok.....now I know what your talking about..Ive seen those on REAL TV !!!! That looks like scary shite!!!!!! Thanxs for the explination!!!!jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites des 2 #15 January 15, 2002 just a note here. it is possible to throw the drogue in a drogue side down side spin,just takes a little timing,to find the gap.(done it 3 times now).i really believe this is a better option,as you still have the reserve if the drogue doesn't clear.the 4000' it took to stop the side spin, is putting you in the red,if you exit at 8000',still no guarantee that it will stop by then.as i said this is just my opinion,and it's worked for me.des Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 273 #16 January 15, 2002 Really des? They told me that was not an option... nice to know there is another way out of it!pull and flare,lisa-- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lazerq3 0 #17 January 15, 2002 QuoteIf all else fails pulling the reserve will pull the pair out of it, but the reserve is going to open in some nasty, possibly unrecoverable line twists. Hey lisa...why do they say pull the reserve...I would think if you went for the main first it would at least get you stable (somewhat) then if that twists all up you can cut away stable and wip out the reserve. Just curious!!jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymedic 0 #18 January 16, 2002 Your drogue is your P/C for a tandem...hence if you cant get the drogue out...you go for the reserve...marc"...a mind stretched with new idea's will never regain its shape" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lazerq3 0 #19 January 16, 2002 QuoteYour drogue is your P/C for a tandemDOH!!!!!!!!! Forgot about that.........Thanxs for the input!jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fred 0 #20 January 17, 2002 QuoteYour drogue is your P/C for a tandem...Really? It's been awhile since I've heard something that I had no idea about. (I'm a student, very inexperienced, but curious as a kitten).So, when a tandem pulls the ripcord, it releases the pin, and the drogue pulls the main out? I imagined something far more complex. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lazerq3 0 #21 January 17, 2002 I believe (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) that the TM throws out the drogue chute, there is a cord that threads through that stops the chute from pulling out the main , then the TM pull that cord via R/C in which the P/C is then able to pull out the main! I sure some one thats a TM or has packed them can explian better. I've watche d them being packed but thats about it!jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites des 2 #22 January 17, 2002 the drogue basically has 3 functions.1;it acts as a stabilizer.2;it slows the tandem pair to a" normal" freefall speed.3;it acts as a p/c.it is attached by a 3 ring release ,similar to a cutaway system,so when you pull the r/c you are actually releasing the drogue ,which in turn pulls out the main canopy.(most tandems use a system like this,but i am referring primarily to a strong system.).so the rule is; no drogue, no main!you can therefore convert your rig to a simple boc deployment , by pulling a r/c(drogue release),before exit.so if the drogue cannot be deployed cleanly,(if it wraps around part of the tandem pair,your only option is the reserve. no cutaway!).i hope this makes sense,just got home from the bar.des Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,989 #23 January 17, 2002 >the drogue basically has 3 functions.>1;it acts as a stabilizer.Ted Strong would kill you if he heard you say that! I've heard his "The drouge is not a stabilizer" speech twice already. (Of course, it does serve as something of a stabilizer, but his point is that it should never be thrown just to get stable in the first place.)>it is attached by a 3 ring release ,similar to a cutaway system,so when you pull the r/c you are actually releasing the drogue>which in turn pulls out the main canopyThe Vector/Sigma system is absolutely ingenious, and has a closing loop that "traps" a plate attached to the drouge. Imagine a regular sport rig packed with both a ripcord and the pin through the closing loop. Deploying the PC gives you a "PC-in-tow" (which is what you want for a tandem) and pulling the ripcord allows the bag out.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites des 2 #24 January 18, 2002 bill,i agree 300% the drogue should not be used to get stable!but undeniably ,once deployed,thestudent can do anything they like,(i really don't care what they do,touch there toes if they like),and the drogue will keep you in a stable position,with the help of a good tm arch.all the tm's i work with now keep their legs inside the students,and this allows a far better arch.it took me a while to get used to this,but i swear ,it's sooo much more comfortable than tm legs outside.yeah the new sigma has some great features,but check your reserve loops!we have had 2 wear completely thru,and the reserve popped when the flat was lifted! no shit!des Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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skybytch 273 #7 January 13, 2002 Not to mention being in excellent physical condition, possessing excellent freefall and canopy control skills and good medical insurance...Quoteside spins (BAD!!! and deadly if not corrected)Especially if you get into it drogue side down. Did that with my 17th live student, no shit, there we were, thought we were gonna die. Relatively simple to correct if you know what to do, but talk about adrenaline pump!! I thought my heart rate would never return to normal... I watch the video now and wonder what ever possessed me to get a tandem rating.pull and flare,lisa--"Where's my beer?" - Al Stephens "Oh, was this yours? - Lisa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #8 January 13, 2002 QuoteI watch the video now and wonder what ever possessed me to get a tandem rating.Decent money at a busy DZ? The ability to work almost anywhere? Getting paid to skydive? Being self employed? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #9 January 13, 2002 Three outta four. I was working at a small DZ; doing tandems out of Cessna 182's, 206's and a 411, with a King Air and Otter tossed in just for kicks. Trust me, tandems out of Cessnas are work. And at only $25/jump, the video guy was taking home more than I was for the same number of jumps and taking much less risk with his body.It was cool to not have to work 9-5 Monday through Friday but for awhile there all I did was tandems - it ain't as much fun when every jump you do is with someone strapped to the front of you.pull and flare,lisa--"Where's my beer?" - Al Stephens "Oh, was this yours? - Lisa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
des 2 #10 January 14, 2002 dammit! i know you are right,but i get more enjoyment from a tandem now ,than any other skydive.wierd uh?des Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #11 January 14, 2002 Hey as long as you're having fun it's all good! pull and flare,lisa-- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #12 January 15, 2002 Can someone desribe this side spin your talking about? just curiousjason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #13 January 15, 2002 Tandem side spin. Happens prior to the drogue being thrown. Picture a tandem pair on their sides, spinning in either direction. If the pair are arching the spin gets worse (propellor effect). Fix is to bring in all control surfaces (arms of both jumpers to their sides, straighten legs) and flatten out (no more arch). If the pair is on their left sides the TI can throw the drogue up to help bring the pair belly to earth and stop the spin; if the pair are on their right sides this is not an option. If all else fails pulling the reserve will pull the pair out of it, but the reserve is going to open in some nasty, possibly unrecoverable line twists. Has killed several tandem pairs in the past; Bill Morrisey and Ted Strong came up with the fix some years ago and have saved many lives (mine included) since then by distributing the "fix" information The one I was in started right out of the door (exited at 10,500) and was "drogue side down" (right sides of our bodies toward the ground) so I couldn't throw the drogue to stop the spin. I did as I was taught and within about 6 more revolutions we went face to earth and I got the drogue out. Checked altitude and we were at 6500 feet; waited for my camera guy to catch up, waved and let him know we were okay then dumped. If anyone wants to see the video look me up at Perris some day; I'd be glad to show it to any person who does tandems or is considering it.pull and flare,lisa-- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #14 January 15, 2002 Ok.....now I know what your talking about..Ive seen those on REAL TV !!!! That looks like scary shite!!!!!! Thanxs for the explination!!!!jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
des 2 #15 January 15, 2002 just a note here. it is possible to throw the drogue in a drogue side down side spin,just takes a little timing,to find the gap.(done it 3 times now).i really believe this is a better option,as you still have the reserve if the drogue doesn't clear.the 4000' it took to stop the side spin, is putting you in the red,if you exit at 8000',still no guarantee that it will stop by then.as i said this is just my opinion,and it's worked for me.des Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #16 January 15, 2002 Really des? They told me that was not an option... nice to know there is another way out of it!pull and flare,lisa-- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #17 January 15, 2002 QuoteIf all else fails pulling the reserve will pull the pair out of it, but the reserve is going to open in some nasty, possibly unrecoverable line twists. Hey lisa...why do they say pull the reserve...I would think if you went for the main first it would at least get you stable (somewhat) then if that twists all up you can cut away stable and wip out the reserve. Just curious!!jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #18 January 16, 2002 Your drogue is your P/C for a tandem...hence if you cant get the drogue out...you go for the reserve...marc"...a mind stretched with new idea's will never regain its shape" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #19 January 16, 2002 QuoteYour drogue is your P/C for a tandemDOH!!!!!!!!! Forgot about that.........Thanxs for the input!jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fred 0 #20 January 17, 2002 QuoteYour drogue is your P/C for a tandem...Really? It's been awhile since I've heard something that I had no idea about. (I'm a student, very inexperienced, but curious as a kitten).So, when a tandem pulls the ripcord, it releases the pin, and the drogue pulls the main out? I imagined something far more complex. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #21 January 17, 2002 I believe (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) that the TM throws out the drogue chute, there is a cord that threads through that stops the chute from pulling out the main , then the TM pull that cord via R/C in which the P/C is then able to pull out the main! I sure some one thats a TM or has packed them can explian better. I've watche d them being packed but thats about it!jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
des 2 #22 January 17, 2002 the drogue basically has 3 functions.1;it acts as a stabilizer.2;it slows the tandem pair to a" normal" freefall speed.3;it acts as a p/c.it is attached by a 3 ring release ,similar to a cutaway system,so when you pull the r/c you are actually releasing the drogue ,which in turn pulls out the main canopy.(most tandems use a system like this,but i am referring primarily to a strong system.).so the rule is; no drogue, no main!you can therefore convert your rig to a simple boc deployment , by pulling a r/c(drogue release),before exit.so if the drogue cannot be deployed cleanly,(if it wraps around part of the tandem pair,your only option is the reserve. no cutaway!).i hope this makes sense,just got home from the bar.des Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,989 #23 January 17, 2002 >the drogue basically has 3 functions.>1;it acts as a stabilizer.Ted Strong would kill you if he heard you say that! I've heard his "The drouge is not a stabilizer" speech twice already. (Of course, it does serve as something of a stabilizer, but his point is that it should never be thrown just to get stable in the first place.)>it is attached by a 3 ring release ,similar to a cutaway system,so when you pull the r/c you are actually releasing the drogue>which in turn pulls out the main canopyThe Vector/Sigma system is absolutely ingenious, and has a closing loop that "traps" a plate attached to the drouge. Imagine a regular sport rig packed with both a ripcord and the pin through the closing loop. Deploying the PC gives you a "PC-in-tow" (which is what you want for a tandem) and pulling the ripcord allows the bag out.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
des 2 #24 January 18, 2002 bill,i agree 300% the drogue should not be used to get stable!but undeniably ,once deployed,thestudent can do anything they like,(i really don't care what they do,touch there toes if they like),and the drogue will keep you in a stable position,with the help of a good tm arch.all the tm's i work with now keep their legs inside the students,and this allows a far better arch.it took me a while to get used to this,but i swear ,it's sooo much more comfortable than tm legs outside.yeah the new sigma has some great features,but check your reserve loops!we have had 2 wear completely thru,and the reserve popped when the flat was lifted! no shit!des Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
