How many instructors have given "the talk"?

[bch7773 0]

How many times have you had to give the bowling talk to a student? I had to do it for my first time, and really really hated it. i'm wondering if its a very uncommon talk to give, or if I'll probably have to do it again in the future.

also if you gave the talk before, how did you do it? Gently to ease them into your decision, or straight out to make it really clear?

MB 3528, RB 1182

[Shark 0]

Students will figure it out for themselves. Either that or their bank account will dictate whether they continue. If they are having problems I will take them to the wind tunnel and work with them on the ground pre- and post jump. Again, it depends on their desire and basic skills....and their wallet. One way or another they'll figure out if it's for them or not.

Have I given the talk? Yes.

[bodypilot1 0]

I've only had to give it once over the years.....ok, well almost twice, but Shark was such a nice guy I couldn't.

It doesn't happen that often, but when you have to, be professional and explain to them why you think it wouldn't be safe for them to continue jumping.
One nice thing these days is some may be able to continue in the wind tunnel to correct any problems while in freefall, but the students that cannot get the canopy control are very rare.


Be safe.
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[Tonto 1]

Twice in 18 years of instructing.

I'm brutal - but polite. If people can't figure out from the dive where they're at, you're going to need to be extra specially "honest" with them.

In both cases the students physical performance was terrible, and the thought of failure and consequent death seemed "not so bad."

I also asked a student to leave the 1st jump course once during the into lecture when he said he was here to commit suicide. He later said he was joking - but I wasn't really interested in finding out if he was lying before or after.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[livendive 8]

Twice. One was a student who froze and took his clear & pull into AAD land. I didn't really have to tell him much. I asked him to meet me for a beer the next evening and he said he was thinking about quitting but was unsure whether he should leave now or do one more to prove himself. I encouraged him to just leave it alone and stick with mountain-climbing...adventurous while also having more opportunities to stop and evaluate the situation. He accepted the advice so I didn't have to tell him "No, I mean you're not allowed to jump with us again."

The other was a novice who made safety errors on virtually every skydive. Low pulls, downwinding the road, cutting through traffic, etc, etc, etc. He took it personally and went to the DZ across town. I think it was about 6 weeks later that he finally earned his ride in a helicoptor.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[freeflygirlz 0]

I did it once and the student immediately agreed with quitting skydiving. He was absolutely not able to deal with stress. After a bit rough exit he totally freaked and nearly pulled his cutaway instead of his main.
I had a student who was a rather bad student, very very instable, but he was reliable at pulling. I would not talk him into quitting. If he would, I would not be surprised, but I would not care jumping with him. He decided on his own to do tunnel training, than came back for a rejump. He did not tell us, that he was in the tunnel until we were in the plane :-) he did a great job and got his licence.
Recently one of my students stopped jumping after a not very good level 4 jump. I had to stop his rotations and he did not pull. After the pull-sign I pulled for him. For me this is not a reason to give the student this bowling-talk, if it only happens once. I was rather sad, that he decided to stop skydiving.

I agree, that most of the students know, when it's time to get a new hobby. But there are a few, who are not understanding at all.

[Shark 0]

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I've only had to give it once over the years.....ok, well almost twice, but Shark was such a nice guy I couldn't.

I didn't give up, either. Besides, you wore your Z1 full face on my repeat level 3.

BTW, your kid has completed 667 AFFs and 400 tandems.

[tdog 0]

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Twice. One was a student who froze and took his clear & pull into AAD land.

What was his level and how many jumps???

[livendive 8]

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Twice. One was a student who froze and took his clear & pull into AAD land.

What was his level and how many jumps???

His level was "clear and pull". I don't remember exactly how many jumps, but it was more than 10 (static line progression).

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[skypuppy 1]

I generally won't fire someone after one jump. Was there more to the story?

My general belief is 'the student didn't fail to learn, the instructor failed to teach'.

That said, I can see Tonto's point in not allowing a student to go on after discussing suicide.

I don't think I could have done AFF type jumps in the early years if I was NOT confident that the students I trained knew what to do in all situations, including if I fucked up.

Just my opinion.

Edit to add -- Of course, financially it was never my dropzone, although in a couple of places I was the chief instructor. Maybe if it was my life's work on the line I would have kicked some off.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[livendive 8]

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I generally won't fire someone after one jump. Was there more to the story?

After 2 (or more) regular static lines and at least 3 practice pull jumps (I'm thinking 6), he got out at 4500, yanked on his 3-ring a couple times, then fell helpless till his AAD fired. He said he couldn't find his ripcord, despite the fact that he landed with it still in plain view right where your cutaway handle is.

I can teach skills, but I'm not so sure I can teach desire to live. If he'd given up and dumped his reserve I'd have let him continue. I'm not sure I can fix a tendency to hesitate for 20+ seconds. Even if I have the ability to, I'm not willing to take responsibility for the practical part of the lesson.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[timuuu 0]

Once - and to a liscenced skydiver.

This person took 2 years to get his liscence, and the third year into it, still isn't a 50 jump wonder.

The plane is shut down, and a 20 minute call is made. He gears up at the 5 minute call.

When he came to the plane, his riser cover was untucked and the left risers were under his armpit. When he asked for a gear check at the plane as we were boarding and I found that, combined with other talks he has had about safety issues and that he had to go to the hospital once already in his skydiving career, it was a pretty easy talk to have!

[FreeFlyASC 0]

As long as i think i can keep a student under control during a jump. I will continue to let them jump. I once took a student on 4 level 1 aff's before he finally decided on his own that maybe this wasnt the sport for him.

I have had the talk with one student becouse he couldnt not land a parachute to save his life. (even with a radio!)

[bodypilot1 0]

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yanked on his 3-ring a couple times, then fell helpless till his AAD fired.

Did he walk in with a tall pointed hat with "Dunce" written on it also?



Be safe.
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[DanglesOZQld 0]

Been uncommon for me thankfully.

So far only one student and that was after we had two other jm's jump with them as well as the CI.

There has been one other student who the CI was going to give the talk to but I went up with him after a very long "chat" on the ground and he managed to relax and really start to get into the swing of things. The CI jumped with him next as I don't think he believed me when I told him he (student) had found "the groove."

I was really happy to have been able to do that as he is now a pretty good jumper and loves the sport just like the rest of us ;).

Helping people overcome their fears and not giving up on them is what makes us want to be instructors and helps us love our sport even more.

Being cruel to be kind after many trials and hardships when you KNOW things are not going to work is unfortunately part of what we must sometimes do as well. You are doing the person a favour in the long run even though at the time might feel like a total a!$hole............

Unfortunately as an instructor in this sport you are bound to have the times that make you feel like you can walk on air as well as those that make you want to have the ground swallow you up and make you disappear!

BSBD! -Mark.

"A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!"