Superfletch 1 #26 February 21, 2006 My best advice to you would to be more proactive in the skydive and less reactive. As soon as you see the student "about" to tumble, start your dive. If you wait for him to tumble then you are already behind the curve. Unfortunately, experience is the key here and by the time you have the experience to notice what the student is going to do before he does it, then you won't be asking questions like this anymore... hehehehe Good luck my friend. Don't worry, you'll get better and faster... Gary "Superfletch" Fletcher D-26145; USPA Coach, IAD/I, AFF/I Videographer/Photographer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #27 February 21, 2006 ``You are a very fast flier, aren't you?'' ``I... I enjoy speed,'' Jonathan said, taken aback but proud that the Elder had noticed. ``You will begin to touch heaven, Jonathan, in the moment that you touch perfect speed. And that isn't flying a thousand miles an hour, or a million, or flying at the speed of light. Because any number is a limit, and perfection doesn't have limits. Perfect speed, my son, is being there.'' Jonathan - Richard BachIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #28 February 21, 2006 When I want to fall fast on belly, I put my feet on my butt and arch as hard as I can through my hips. Then I put my hands on my chest - like I am praying ;-) and keep my elbows in. That modified mantis completely removes my lower legs from the air flow and "overlays" my arms on my chest. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #29 February 21, 2006 QuoteWhen I want to fall fast on belly, I put my feet on my butt and arch as hard as I can through my hips. Then I put my hands on my chest - like I am praying ;-) and keep my elbows in. That modified mantis completely removes my lower legs from the air flow and "overlays" my arms on my chest. This is a much more comfortable and effective fast fall position IMO. If you grab your chest/boobs with your hands instead of "praying", that also helps to rotate your forearms and it automatically pulls the elbows in tighter. It's also a great one to teach someone with floating "issues" for them to get down. Their eyes just light up when they put their hands on their chests/boobs, elbows in and they just drop right down in place. The "Hard arch" with the arms back etc can actually make someone bigger, so if they do fall faster, they are also really straining a lot harder and can hurt their shoulders. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jheadley 0 #30 February 21, 2006 Well I started this thread several months ago (surprised to see it got bumped) and since then I've gotten much much better. I've done some tunnel tunnel time and learned mantis, and learned to fall really fast. I can comfortably fall 135 on my belly, and when I really need to, I can go into the 160s (TAS). I was struggling to go 125 before. How I did that was similar to what riggerrob said, arch like hell, feet on ass, and arms in front of chest in a very fast mantis position. I've done a lot of coach jumps since I first started this thread and I've never let my students get farther than 15 feet away from me, even when they tumble for 1000 feet. To the aspiring coaches out there, the best advice I can give is to learn the mantis position. The amount of fall rate range you have in incredible, and it's also easiest to have your student dock on you with your arms out in front of you instead of on either side of your head like in normal boxman. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #31 February 21, 2006 I've found that even if someone doesn't get the incredibily improved manuverability found with mantis, the increase in fall rate range (low and high end) usually can close the sale all by itself ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sneaky 0 #32 February 25, 2006 If he took 2000 feet to get stable you should refer the 'student' to an AFFI as he may be missing some of the basic survival key skills. Once the problem has been identified (many factors eg currency of jumps, lack of skill, or a long layoff etc etc) then you can progress with either group skills or key specific skills to improve the individual flying skill. Another key factor in the prejump briefing is to access your ' student ' fall rate. Look at his body size, look at his jumpsuit, see if he can arch hard, from a NB position on the ground. Then you can decide if you need to weight up, and get dressed for success, also during the dirtdive you should pick up on the little tell tale signs so you can anticpate what they will do in the air. There are a 1000 to pick up on, each one giving you a little sneaky peak at the inner flyer. If you got through a coach course successfully I doubt that you are lacking any ability to do a good job, maybe you just have to fly harder and anticpate early, but that will come with experience. Most importantly of all, no matter how fucked up the dive is on your behalf, just make the student feel great about their skydive, praise them to the max and work them hard, because they think your great anyway no matter how bad you may feel... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jheadley 0 #33 February 25, 2006 When I made that jump several months ago, the guy (actually a family of 4, mother, father, and 2 sons), had just gone through AFF all in one weekend. Then they came back 29 days later, so currency was definitely an issue too. The mother and son came back (the other son was banned from the dropzone for having an arrogant punk attitude, and the father broke his ankle rock climbing), made one coach jump each, I took the son, another coach took the mother (she performed about as well as he did). This was the first load of the day so we had to guess on the spot, I made it back to the landing area fine, and my student made it back but JUST BARELY, he should have definitely landed off. The other coach and the mother landed off. The mother and son said they were both so "shaken up" by their off landing, that the didn't want to make another jump. We never saw them again. The funniest part is that they said they wanted to get into skydiving so they could BASE jump. QuoteIf you got through a coach course successfully I doubt that you are lacking any ability to do a good job, maybe you just have to fly harder and anticpate early, but that will come with experience. In my still limited experience, I don't really agree with that. I got my coach rating at 120 jumps ( don't even start, I know), and since then I've learned that even the easiest real coach jump I've done was harder than the two eval jumps for the course. I really think the coach course should be much harder, more realistic to what a student will actually do, and have at least 4 eval jumps, not 2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sneaky 0 #34 February 25, 2006 Quote In my still limited experience, I don't really agree with that. I got my coach rating at 120 jumps ( don't even start, I know), and since then I've learned that even the easiest real coach jump I've done was harder than the two eval jumps for the course. I really think the coach course should be much harder, more realistic to what a student will actually do, and have at least 4 eval jumps, not 2. thats exactly what I meant Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
