phoenixlpr 0 #126 June 7, 2010 Guys! Stop feeding the troll! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d123 3 #127 June 7, 2010 No, no man, think about PD. They believed in you!Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d123 3 #128 June 7, 2010 Quote Guys! Stop feeding the troll! C'mon man! Can I feed him a little bit?Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EFS4LIFE 0 #129 June 7, 2010 By the way MOST skydivers who get themselves killed happen to be the highly experienced ones aren't they? I am still new enough that I do not let myself get complacent. I should start a pool about which one of you should be bouncing next. Not the other way around.I am an asshole, but I am honest Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #130 June 7, 2010 QuoteHey jlmiracle I never asked a question dumbass. Reread the entire thread. When did I ask a question? I just stated that I am a lower jump number guy who jumps a Stiletto, being that the OP was about the Stiletto as a student canopy. Just as I thought I got jumped on because of my canopy choice by chest puffers with xxxx jumps that think only their opinion is the right one. Then why on earth would you post on here knowing full well they you have already made a bad decision in you canopy choice? Unless, of course, you like abuse and being told you made a very very bad decision. I'll take 2 squares please. jBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EFS4LIFE 0 #131 June 7, 2010 Because I think it hilarious to see a bunch of people behind the times regergitating the bullshit they were spoon fed without actually thinking for themselves. Quite funny actually.I am an asshole, but I am honest Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d123 3 #132 June 7, 2010 http://www.ehow.com/how_4860242_swoop-a-parachute.htmlLock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robinheid 0 #133 June 7, 2010 Quote Quote you still have a math problem, though; both Kallend and I are people to whom the young guy can look for verification and validation of his (canopy size and training choices) and last time I checked, 1 + 1 = 2. Except that neither of you has paid your dues in this area. John isn't a skydiving instructor, and neither of you has the CURRENT experience under the multitude canopy designs and loadings that I would consider needed to advise this jumper on the sensibility of his choice, ESPECIALLY given the lack of first hand knowledge of the situation. MY assessment of this thread is influenced by my desire to not keep having to drag broken novices from the landing area. Flame away. Sorry to pour cold water on your flames, but neither of us "advised" EFS4LIFE to do anything -- we simply spoke of our related personal EXPERIENCE, which, by the way, far - far - exceeds yours. One thing I might suggest to you given your continuing ambition to be a leader of this sport is that you dispense with the silly little non sequitur PAs and address the points I made about the psychotic structure of our "current" training program, as constructive dialogue in this area would go much farther to further your "desire to not keep having to drag broken novices (and skygods) from the landing area." Finally, when you have more time in grade to go with your considerable time in the saddle, you might be amenable to hearing what people actually say. As the late great John Wooden put it, "It's what you learn after you know it all that counts." p.s. Thanks for the compliment about EFS4LIFE being me using an alias... I WISH I could write coherent, detailed fiction that fast. SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #134 June 7, 2010 Quote Because I think it hilarious to see a bunch of people behind the times regergitating the bullshit they were spoon fed without actually thinking for themselves. Quite funny actually. Another well thought out decision you made.jBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #135 June 7, 2010 Quote You know what you all right, I am going to die. There is no way I can handle a Stiletto 190 at 1 to 1. What was I thinking these past 30 jumps? I am lucky to be alive. You know what this skydiving shit is dangerous. Hell I could do everything right and still die. Screw it I quit. I am never jumping again. NOT!!! Pretty classy about the bounce statement. Nice touch. Is that all you come up with? LOL now you guys resort to telling me I am going to die. Pathetic. NOT MEEEEE! I gave up trying to tell ya anything way back in the thread....remember, I said you're right ~ have fun! Truth is you're pushing the envelope, some can, some can't...You argue that you are one of the ones that can, I've seen 'em come & go...time will tell! Good luck...from an old fart that's been doing this a while without so much as a scratch, seen a lot, learned some from watching and taking advise from others...and at least "I" realise the only advise I have that you will maybe listen to is: Always keep a litter bag in your car! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #136 June 7, 2010 QuoteOh yeah one last thing "RON" just because I can't help myself. You said "mutually inclusive" or some other term where you tried to sound very smart about how I think I am better than someone with twice my jump numbers. Let me pose an "inquiry" (so I can sound all smart myself) what if that jumper with 300 jumps has them spread out over a 4 year period when I have my 115 in 10 months? Does he really have twice my experience? He probably has a lot more experience. Although many learning experiences with parachutes involve pain and trips to orthopaedic surgeons, that experience doesn't have to be first hand. So he's got both his jump numbers and the extra time at the drop zone which is more likely to include a few "not a hook turn type" people leaving in ambulances or at least them telling them how they screwed up when he visits them in the hospital. For instance, people are more likely to practice low turns before they need them after seeing an AFF instructor nearly bleed out because she hadn't. Quote Do you believe in CURRENCY? Stop trying to cookie cutter shit by jump numbers because you have a high number of them. It isn't a black an white thing brother. You only gain muscle memory through doing something, which comes purely from jump numbers and time under canopy. You generally gain judgement from experience, which comes purely from jump numbers, time under canopy, and time in sport learning from other people's experience. It's a black, white, and blood red thing which has played out the same for decades. Most of the new jumpers who believed they were special snow flakes have a few close calls and come to their senses before going to the hospital. Most of the rest wise up after the first visit which often means titanium implants but doesn't leave them with serious lasting effects. Just a few suffer serious permanent injuries or death. Unfortunately, the distinction is pretty much random chance and you really want to avoid that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EFS4LIFE 0 #137 June 7, 2010 Airtwardo, I actually don't "push" the envelope. If you say my canopy choice alone, despite the large size and light wingloading, IS pushing the envelope, then I guess I am in your book. That is fine. Despite my obvious aggitation in some post I DO respect what you more expereinced guys say. Just not how ALL of you guys say it. I disagree that a large lightly loaded Stiletto cannot be a great canopy for an intermediate jumper to learn some great things on that will benift the immensely in the future. Despite it's elliptical nature, at that size and WL it is pretty forgiving. Not in a "panic" toggle turn low to the ground, but hey neither is a Sabre2 or many of the other canopies guys around my jumps are flying, and is widely accepted to do so. Scenario- I get 300 jumps on a Square 190, I downsize to a 170. I get 1 to 2 hundred on that. Now I am at 500 jumps and I go to 150 ellptical. IMHO with limited expereince, this is a BAD idea, but I see it all the time. Why not go to an elliptical at that 190 size BEFORE downsizing. Learn how an elliptical won't forgive bad position on deployment, or how some accidental harness input at the wrong time can get you in trouble. Do this on a size that is more forgiving, and you can get away with it. Oh well maybe I am clueless, and just think I am a pretty intelligent guy. Maybe you guys are right and I will bounce. So be it. I feel safe on it. I don't feel like I am exceeding my skill. In person I really am not some guy who thinks he is the best or something. I do listen to people who know how to reach me, and it's not THAT hard to do actually. But I have thosands of jumps alone is not enough, and most seem to think it should be. Well D licensed skydivers bounce more than anyone else too. I have seen guys with 3 or 4 hundred jumps that can't even spot right, or land their freaking canopies. Maybe I sound full of myself, but I have seen guys with more jumps than me that I KNOW I have more skill than. Hell I have flown with them and seen it. Currency has a lot to do with it too. They may have 400 jumps but one weekend a month when you come out and make a couple jumps and it is hard to build your skills that way. I never see myself being a swooper or pushing the limit on anything in skydiving. I plan to be like you an old fart who has been at it a long time without a scratch. Hell I never see myself lower than a 170 or 150 MAYBE. I do think I will always fly a Stiletto though. I love it.I am an asshole, but I am honest Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #138 June 7, 2010 QuoteJust read their add on it "With improvements in canopy control technique over the years the Stiletto has now become a very popular choice for many experienced jumpers." Key word there: "experienced". QuoteI don't have to justify anything to people who don't even know me or my skills but assume to do both. Then quit trying to justify it. Make the statement that you are better than we think and we don't know anything and move on with your life. I hope you don't get hurt. But I have seen this play out over and over."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #139 June 7, 2010 Quote Key word there: "experienced". Feeding the troll???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tetra316 0 #140 June 7, 2010 Quote I disagree that a large lightly loaded Stiletto cannot be a great canopy for an intermediate jumper to learn some great things on that will benift the immensely in the future. Despite what you may think you are NOT an intermediate canopy pilot by any means. No one with barely a 100 jumps is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #141 June 7, 2010 That's it, I'm done posting to this thread. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #142 June 7, 2010 QuoteThat's it, I'm done posting to this thread. I mean it, this is the last one. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #143 June 7, 2010 QuoteQuoteThat's it, I'm done posting to this thread. I mean it, this is the last one. see? I'm done ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #144 June 7, 2010 ~ All I am saying is take it slow...slow for you may be 'not so much' for someone else. Keep your head on a swivel, stay low & don't bunch up! Time will tell...just keep in mind ya got a lot of it! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EFS4LIFE 0 #145 June 7, 2010 Drew I agree largely with what you posted. I had a scary moment with a low turn under a Storm 190. I practice flat turns on EVERY jump. I do at least a couple of them after every controlability check. I do this EVERY jump that I have the time to do so, which with how high I am pulling is usually every time. I may not have the time or jumps but I am not some young gung ho "push the limit" guy either. I am 30. A little more mature than my years as well. I just happen to jump a Stiletto 190 instead of a Sabre2 or Specter or something. I know this is generally not accepted. Fine but I am not giving up a canopy I love, because some think I don't have the expereince for it. My instructor thinks it is acceptable for me. I think it is acceptable for me, and while I will not downsize for a very long time, if ever (there is no rule saying I have to downsize) I think that this canopy is making me a better pilot.I am an asshole, but I am honest Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #146 June 7, 2010 Quotewhich with how high I am pulling is usually every time I also have an issue with non-students pulling at 4000 too unless it's specifically for swooping or camera. Just to really torque off the whole thread. But that's only when people don't know how to exit right or when I don't trust those behind the high opener. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EFS4LIFE 0 #147 June 7, 2010 rehmwa- I know where you are going with that, but I don't jump at a large DZ. We have a 182. 4 jumpers in the air at a time. It is easy to pull high there. Track away from jump run, get clear, no problem. Usually I am on a tandem load or something and they are pulling at 6 or so anyway. camera guy really shouldn't be an issue either because it takes the tandems awhile to get out of a 182 with the step, small door and all. Really isn't a problem there.I am an asshole, but I am honest Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtnesbitt 0 #148 June 7, 2010 QuoteQuotewhich with how high I am pulling is usually every time I also have an issue with non-students pulling at 4000 too unless it's specifically for swooping or camera. Just to really torque off the whole thread. But that's only when people don't know how to exit right or when I don't trust those behind the high opener. The non-students that pull at 4k and higher (excluding swoopers and camera) are typically also the same people that dont know how to exit or fly in a pattern. aka They dont know what they dont know. --- This thread was funny, now it's just stupid. Even making a post saying "B13" wouldnt be funny at this point because the whole thing is just sad. How does one go about comparing internet testicles anyway? Also, is there a way to measure and compare how much piss your computer is generating? The last two paragraphs were to no one in particular btw."If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #149 June 7, 2010 Quote rehmwa- I know where you are going with that, wow, you really are talented... edit: I'm sure you are truly trying to put a lot of thought into your choices. be safe, have fun ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #150 June 7, 2010 QuoteHow does one go about comparing internet testicles anyway? Also, is there a way to measure and compare how much piss your computer is generating? first, you need very sophisticated electronic data gathering gear second - you need a good insulator because the random electrical shocks are not fun. Not...fun....at.....all edit: jt - what does "B13" mean? If it's funny, I want to know. later ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
