Handcam how many d.z.'s do it

[Mixoligist 0]

You know what dude , yea your right, I'm wrong......handycams are wonderful...they really show the whole picture, big and small. They capture the whole experience of someone making their first and maybe last skydive.Handycams are great !


I have more pride than to sell handyscams.
It's all about the $$$......the product sucks.

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Better you than me
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[freefalle 0]

Handy cams do suck. The quality of the video is crap and anyone who says its anywhere near compares to the quality of outside video makes me wonder.

[beezyshaw 0]

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I have never heard anyone say handycam is shit.

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Handycam is shit.
Handycam is shit.
Handycam is shit.

Now you have heard it three times.

Let me guess, Mixologist is a video guy in the rotation at DeLand?

I can only speak from 3 years' personal experience doing tandems with handcam video. I want to make a couple of points here. First, and most importantly as to the quality of product you get with handcam, I can tell you that at TN Skydiving Ctr. in Tullahoma, we had on several occasions the following scenario: A group of friends came and did tandems, one went with me and took home handcam video, the rest of the group got conventional video. A couple of weeks later, one or more of the original group came back for a second tandem on the condition they could jump with the handcam instructor. The reason is simple, really. The customer (student) is a movie star for 4 times longer in their video than their friends. The canopy ride, the expressions during and following opening, the conversation during canopy ride are all captured on video and the conventional video just doesn't offer that. You can say whatever you will about the technique, but my friends, the customer is the one spending the money for their jump and the video of it, and flat-out, no debating it because I have experienced it for three years, tandem students like it better and that is all that really matters. You can go on and on about the shot you can't get with handcam, and yes it is a different shot than we've all become used to seeing; but I say it again, it isn't what video guys think is good that matters, what is important is the customer's satisfaction. The second point I want to address is what Aggie Dave is saying about feelings of concern for safety compromises. At the last PIA symposium, I helped Rob Warner conduct his seminar on handcam tandems. There were many jumpers, dzo's, and others present who are and have been involved with this method since its inception, many folks from down under were there. This subject was discussed at length, and out of the many thousands of tandems done with handcam video, there were no safety issues at all. No close calls attributed to, or compounded by handcam. None at all, ever. While I would tell any tandem instructor who doesn't feel safe jumping with a camera on his hand that indeed he should not attempt it, I would argue strongly that there is no added risk of malfunction nor does handcam in any way distract a good tandem pilot and reduce or compromise attention to conductiing a safe tandem skydive. This stuff about grabbing the camera seems far-fetched; to me it reminds me of the way certain tandem instructors keep repeating to their passenger "don't grab my hands" during the pre-jump briefing. In my mind if you keep saying that to your student you're actually planting a message in their brain to grab your hands. I never mention not to grab my hands, and I've never had a student grab my hands. If someone did grab me in freefall, I can guarantee you that I'm at an advantage being on top of them and I'd beat the dog shit out of them or bite their freakin' ear off to get them to let go! I think it's some sort of saying that got started a long time ago and really has very little basis for even being mentioned.

Another thing I want to say is, for God sakes people, quit saying "handycam". If you don't like "handycam" for skydiving, you'll have to ditch all your Sony cameras and start using JVC or Panasonic. Self-shot tandem video is "handcam", and Sony's product trademark is "handycam".

To Mixologist, and all other nay-sayers: Thomas Paine said long ago about situations just like this..."Lead, Follow, Or Get Out Of The Way"

Oh, one last thing to whoever said that handcam is only a tandem instructor's ego trip. That's the funniest comeback I've heard yet. Tell you what, you can have the ego trip, I'll quietly take my hundred bucks per jump paycheck and go pay my bills.

[PhreeZone 20]

Beezy, what do you do with the people that want stills?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[beezyshaw 0]

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Beezy, what do you do with the people that want stills?

Eric, that is certainly a valid point. Right now, at Tullahoma, if someone wants video and stills they get conventional. I can, of course, capture stills from my Sony IP-5, but the quality is only suitable for email/wallet size prints. While once in a while the stills are of equal importance to video in the customer's mind, generally speaking the video of their skydive is the big thing for them.

Here's a thought; maybe dz's offering both options could do this and over time the proof would be in the pudding, so to speak. Offer both formats, by showing sample videos of both types during the orientation, explain the difference (ie, that they cannot get stills with handcam, but only get freefall with outside method), then give the customer a few minutes to make a decision and let them choose which they would rather take home with them. Or for the customer that has unlimited funds, get both for a premium price and edit into a nice dvd. I've already been involved in having the landing shot by someone on the ground so that the approach/landing can be done more conventionally, and that seems to work well to make a more professional looking product. But to get back to the real advantage to handcam (aside from the economics for the dz and tandem pilot), the five minutes of canopy ride and dialogue is really valuable footage, especially when the tandem pilot does a good job of it.

[Mixoligist 0]

[PhreeZone 20]

The Handcam vids I've seen do not include the entire canopy ride, they only do the opening and a brief interview after opening. Then they flip them back on in time for landing, you might be unique in keeping yours on for the whole time Beezy. The average handcam video I saw was the same length as an outside if not shorter since they did'nt film the gearing up and the post landing interviews.

Its going to be hard to do a head to head unless the outside video and hand cam are for the same price. Consumers will always take a cheaper route if one is presented to them. $50 for Handcam or $75 ($100+ with stills too) for outside... on price alone most will choose the cheaper option. To reduce the price of the outside you are stuck either not paying the video guy or having the DZ not take a cut of the price to make up the difference. Its hard to compare unless all factors are equal.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[rhys 0]

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Maybe you should get better trained camera flyers. I have seen alot of handcam videos and have yet to see any that are even close to the quality of good outside video! I agree with others that adding a camera to the hand of a TM is just asking for trouble but I also acknowledge that it is being done hundreds of times a week without incident.

probably more like thousands!!

I prefer outside camera too. it is much better footage, if it is done correctly. handcam gets the reaction after the opening that is an advantage but i think the landing footage is crap!! to most customers this is the point where they are convinced that skydiving is safe and it is an important moment to capture!

A mixture of both is the perfect product. but oh so time consuming!!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[beezyshaw 0]

I only have experience with dz's that charge the same for video, whether it be done by outside or handcam. As for the gearing up, I place my camera on a counter a few feet away as I gear up the student, then I walk on their left and do a nice interview on the walk to board the aircraft. Same takeoff shots, in-aircraft stuff on the way to altitude, and post landing stuff. Like I said, if you can place someone in the landing area with a video camera you can edit the landing shot into the dvd to get that part which clearly falls short when it comes to handcam. Often this video person can be a friend of your tandem student with either my video camera or often their own, as frequently people bring their camcorders along. You just tell them to "stand right there" and tell them the colors of your canopy.

[Liemberg 0]

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the five minutes of canopy ride and dialogue is really valuable footage, especially when the tandem pilot does a good job of it.

Let me guess: Like me, you also prefer your exit to be slightly to the left and slightly to far?
(I always try to make a few turns to the RIGHT. This enables me to have my left hand free for filming and I get footage of my passenger AND the ground below us. They all love it... I also found out that holding a toggle in the hand you are filming with tends to make the camera shake; making right turns solves this. Of course, one should not forget that steering the canopy is more important than good footage, but most of the time I manage to land where the audience is, thank you... )

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[flyfree2day 0]

nicely said

[beezyshaw 0]

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...... I also found out that holding a toggle in the hand you are filming with tends to make the camera shake; making right turns solves this. Of course, one should not forget that steering the canopy is more important than good footage...

I actually only give the student the left toggle, I keep my left hand down low for camera work. I have the right toggle, along with the student, and we make all turns to the right until about 500 ft, when I pick up the left toggles for landing. In other words, if we need to do a 90 to the left, we just do a 270 to the right. Once you get used to flying all right turns its no problem at all.

[riggerrob 643]

Beezy,

Thanks for showing me that "camera on the table" trick for videoing the process of harnessing the student.
I usually keep my camera on long enough to catch the first ecstatic comments after opening and them grabbing the right steering toggle. After patting all the hooks and handles, as well as a practice landing, I ask the student: "Would you like another thrill?" Then I raise the camera over their left shoulder. hit the RECORD button and catch a spiral or two.
PAUSE
RECORD just before turning onto final .... landing, high fives and fade to scenery.
This shaves four minutes off my video - making it about the same length as outside videographers' - and keeping manifest/management happy.