ncjumpjunkie 0 #26 August 14, 2006 Being a Tandem Examiner for Strong Enterprises. I would ground this Instructor and then forward all evidence to Strong Enterprises. This is completely stupid and unproffesional. The Tandem jump should be about the student and their experience only! With face shots of the paying jumper. The video to a non jumper looks as if they are out of control, this not only looks bad for the Instructor, but for the DZ as well. I wont be suprised if he does'nt loose his rating in light of the recent Tandem accidents.SONIC BEEF #1 BASE 708, NC BASE 3 SLI,IADI,AFFI.TIE.FAA Rigger, Single & Multi Commercial Pilot,CFI, CFII, MEI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #27 August 14, 2006 He looks like a bumbling amateur. Please don't allow him to board the same airplane as me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #28 August 14, 2006 QuoteThis is not from Skydive Chicago. The stills that I posted as well as the video were from Chicagoland Skydiving (Hinckley). Also, Skydive Chicago uses Vector Tandem rigs and Strong Tandem Rigs are being used in these photos. I'm pretty sure he meant "people who act responsibly", not "culpable people". Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeFB2764 0 #29 August 14, 2006 Quote I'm pretty sure he meant "people who act responsibly", not "culpable people". Blues, Dave Gotcha. Makes sense.....now...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fast 0 #30 August 14, 2006 I would hope that the USPA would do something about this to help protect our sport.~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #31 August 14, 2006 If you are in the region... write to your RD about it Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DALAILAMA 0 #32 August 15, 2006 The straps don't have to be loose for this person to fall out, especially when the side straps are this loose. It is inevitable. People were asking "how could anyone let this happen" when referring to the two students that fell from the harnesses. They are apparently still letting it happen! I don't mind people making themselves "learning experiences" but for god sake "be an idiot on your own time" not with someone else!"Dropzone.com, where uneducated people measuring penises, has become an art form" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fast 0 #33 August 15, 2006 QuoteIf you are in the region... write to your RD about it I'm not.~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 29 #34 August 16, 2006 since we are already talking about possible complications arising from stunts like these ones, i'd like to remind all of us of the following statement, issued on mai 31 in the wake of the ohio tandem incident (see here for further details): it is imperative that tandem instructors and safety personnel examine and review tandem harness fitting and adjustment procedures available from the manufacturers. fitting and adjustment of the harness as seen in the pics and the videos provided and shown off proudly on the linked website is is no fucking way in compliance with the rules from the manufacturer. so the real question is not if but when the jumper in question will get his ass chewed from strong enterprises and his rating will be pulledThe universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #35 August 17, 2006 I'd have to say... bad idea. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #36 August 17, 2006 QuoteIs this a good idea? Bad idea? I'll take "dumbass idea" for $1000, Alex. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickanderson 0 #37 August 21, 2006 jan what's going on with this guy? Did USPA do anything? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MakeItHappen 15 #38 August 21, 2006 Quotejan what's going on with this guy? Did USPA do anything? There were complaints filed with USPA. The action that the RD took included pulling the S&TA appointments from the 2 DZOs and writing a letter to the TI that basically slapped the TI on the hand and said, "Don't do that again" and threatened him with disciplinary action if it (the hopping over to the side of the student) happened again. One of the complainants has appealed the RD actions for review by the Executive Committee. That is currently 'in progress'. I do not have a timeline on when that appeal will be discussed by the Executive Committee. The complainant wants a more severe penalty imposed for the TI. This information comes from one of the complainants, who gave permission to the status of this action to all that may inquire. Please also note that the RD may not comment on this action as it is still in progress, as specified in the Gov. Manual Sec. 1-6.5.F.2 .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loudtom 5 #39 August 22, 2006 WTF is this guy doing for christs sake... enough is enough I would never let anyone I know go with this guy or to this dz if this is how they treat their people... wtf lt yotom #90 #54 #08 and now #5 with a Bronze :-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loudtom 5 #40 August 22, 2006 Pulled the S&TA status for both DZO's, huh sounds like a big deal to me. Hope everyone in the chicago area sees this and thinks twice about going to this dz...Seems like poor management to me and very dangerous... just my opinion... yotom #90 #54 #08 and now #5 with a Bronze :-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elisha 1 #41 August 23, 2006 QuotePulled the S&TA status for both DZO's, huh sounds like a big deal to me. Hope everyone in the chicago area sees this and thinks twice about going to this dz...Seems like poor management to me and very dangerous... just my opinion... yo I agree. I would NEVER recommend this person OR the camerman for agreeing to this. The TI, possibly the cameraman and that guy in the yellow in the video at the end are complete jackasses. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #42 August 23, 2006 Quotewriting a letter to the TI that basically slapped the TI on the hand and said, "Don't do that again" and threatened him with disciplinary action if it (the hopping over to the side of the student) happened again. If you look at the videos on Realxstream from the weekend he seems to have stopped although the laterals still look pretty long.Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #43 August 23, 2006 Just in case anyone missed it, MicDon has "split" this thread and put some of his own thoughts that he feels don't belong in this thread in General SkydivingSkydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #44 August 23, 2006 I think it's a bad idea. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #45 August 23, 2006 Not only is it a "bad idea" its negligent !!That is the one thing for sure that will void a release of liability (waiver) form. If that TI were at this drop zone I would have 2 words for him.."Your fired!" No discussion, no second chance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doogie 0 #46 August 23, 2006 QuoteNot only is it a "bad idea" its negligent !!That is the one thing for sure that will void a release of liability (waiver) form. If that TI were at this drop zone I would have 2 words for him.."Your fired!" No discussion, no second chance. Totally!.... and in this case, the dzos CONDONED this activity by posting these things in their weekly updates over and over! They need to fire themselves! Ok... I'm done... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #47 August 23, 2006 QuoteJust in case anyone missed it, MicDon has "split" this thread and put some of his own thoughts that he feels don't belong in this thread in General Skydiving I locked the thread in General so that this important conversation doesn't get split between two threads in two different forums. cpoxon's pointer with the clicky link will remain so we don't lose MicDon's solid input on the subject. A reminder that anyone (not just instructors) can post in this forum - as long as the content targets the subject of skydiving instruction. Thanks,Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loudtom 5 #48 August 23, 2006 Can anyone say why Ted Strong will/has not gotten involved in this "incident"? Isn't that why they have I/E's and waivers to sign for different manufacturers? So we can police our own. I have heard it quoted from this ti that he has more tandems than alot of people have jumps. So he must be good. But we all need to look at the big picture, and realize the scrutiny we are ALL subjected to. What if all the little tm's out there decided they wanted to try it? QuoteQuoteJust in case anyone missed it, MicDon has "split" this thread and put some of his own thoughts that he feels don't belong in this thread in General Skydiving I locked the thread in General so that this important conversation doesn't get split between two threads in two different forums. cpoxon's pointer with the clicky link will remain so we don't lose MicDon's solid input on the subject. A reminder that anyone (not just instructors) can post in this forum - as long as the content targets the subject of skydiving instruction. Thanks,tom #90 #54 #08 and now #5 with a Bronze :-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MicDon 0 #49 August 23, 2006 Geezz!! My first post and I get locked out of the playgroup.Do you mind if I repost the post here?This clicky thing from one forum to the other gives me a headache. I feel very strongly about this and for the life of me I can't understand why the TI only gets a slap on the wrist.This will only allow other TI to think that this behaviour is not being frowned upon by the USPA and Strong Enterprises and it is OK to do this kind of thing.Our livelyhoods are at stake here.I'm surprised some lawyer for the girl he took on the tandem hasn't gotten invloved and go after the Dz for "endangerment" or something stupid they can think of. Also can't understand why this DZ will keep this guy on staff and try and stand behind him against the Regional Director.Thats just digging the hole they are in ,deeper.My opinion of course.Hope this turns out OK There has been a very interesting thread going on in the “Instructors’ forum (Good idea, Bad idea). I personally think this belongs in the General Discussions where more people can form an opinion. Maybe someone can make it sticky or link. There should also be a Poll on whether this so called “instructor” should get his ratings yanked. As an Instructor with over 2400 Tandems and also a person in the Legal field I want to put in my two cents. This could potentially hurt a lot of us and Dropzones .I think we dodged a bullet with the last two tandem passenger fatalities. This guy could potentially have shut the door on tandems and therefore take away my and many other instructors income. Not to mention the millions generated by tandems for Dropzones. We have been closely watched over the last year when it comes to tandems and the risk the customer takes. We have lost two customers in hundreds of thousands of jumps. In my opinion it was the instructors fault in both cases. Taking this in consideration and all the attention and talk it has drawn, I can not imagine that this instructor was not aware of the added scrutiny. What did he think was going to happen if someone saw the photo and video? What did the DZO think will be the reaction of fellow jumpers and the general public after seeing the photos he e-mailed out to everyone on his mailing list and posting it on his website? If you go to the DZ’s website it calls itself the safest DZ in the Midwest and has a promo video trailer. Why not put this video as your promo trailer? My safety input: This was in my opinion a reckless and irresponsible jump.(Apparently he has done a lot of them this way) I think that the instructor was playing with fire and was putting the customer’s life in unnecessary danger. I have seen the opinions in the other thread whether tightening the side straps are necessary or not. If they are there then they are important. The warning from the manufacturers after the last two fatalities was that they were important. Sh…t happens. What would the instructor have done should any of the following scenarios happen while standing next to the customer? Drogue bridal breaks, Customer pulled her legs up, bag comes out of the container and worst of all, premature reserve deployment. All videos from the manufacturer show you that the reserve will clear the bridal in a normal position .With this instructors standing up; he has just put that reserve straight into the bridle. Again, the unforeseen happens. Professional input: This customer bought a video to view her jump. We as instructors all do the necessary to make their jump fun and give them your full attention. We all make jokes and fool around. We all make faces for the camera etc. Besides the fact that this video sucked (Cameraman is all over the place with his hand in the way).This guy totally wanted the show to be on him. This customer will show the video to her family and friends and all they will want to know is who the clown was and why he is doing what he was doing. It is her day and her achievement. I’m not even sure if he gave her the opportunity to pull, which in my opinion is what most customers are the proudest of after a jump. No wonder the retention rate of tandem customers is so low and the country in a whole is experiencing a decline in the growth of experienced jumpers. I think he should join the circus if he wanted the show to be on him. I don’t think he should be called a “Instructor’ He taught her nothing. Legal input: This guy is a walking liability for this DZ and DZO. The DZO got his S&TA designation pulled. In any way you look at this, this is a disciplinary action taken by the USPA for allowing this conduct and will be seen that way by any lawyer or, if it should ever come to that, a jury. If this guy as so much as stump a customer’s toe on landing and a good ambulance chaser gets hold of it, it will be the easiest case ever handed to him. They got sanctioned by the governing body which is a guilty verdict by itself. From what I understand, they got their designation pulled because they did not want to take action against the instructor per the request of the RD (USPA Designee).I could be wrong. Even though Ted Strong does not want to take action against this, he will have a hard time defending his stance for this guy in a deposition, after the USPA took a different opinion regarding his conduct. The DZO should seriously think about getting some legal advice on this. Dude…… Has your mother never taken you by the ear and say “THINK BOY,THINK” That’s my two cents. Flame away MD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MakeItHappen 15 #50 August 23, 2006 QuoteGeezz!! My first post and I get locked out of the playgroup. That sounds like you owe beer, twice over ;) QuoteI feel very strongly about this and for the life of me I can't understand why the TI only gets a slap on the wrist.This will only allow other TI to think that this behaviour is not being frowned upon by the USPA and Strong Enterprises and it is OK to do this kind of thing. I agree with you 100%. I have heard from a number of jumpers about this situation. All of them say that they want to see the TI rating pulled. I have asked people to email the Executive Committee or the full board and state their views and experiences with the said jumper. You can easily email the entire USPA BOD at Uspabod_AT_skydivehard.com replace _AT_ with @ You won't even be considered as a 'whistle-blower'. There is already a formal complaint filed that is currently in an appeal process. The FB already knows about this situation. They have been forwarded the following: Riva *flv Viewer - needed for the links below Realxstream links - goes directly to *.flv file 7 Aug 2006 - Ryan Meschez 6 Aug 2006 - Wojciech Powalka 6 Aug 2006 - Patricia Zoetveit 5 Aug 2006 - George Paleologos 5 Aug 2006 - Lisa Stuart 5 Aug 2006 - Premal Muni 5 Aug 2006 - Prashant Nisar 5 Aug 2006 - Cathy Cook 6 Aug 2006 - Rob Pritts 4 Aug 2006 - Vandana Gandhi 4 Aug 2006 - Jordan Jones 4 Aug 2006 - Lauren Milbourne 4 Aug 2006 - Gary Finn 29 Jul 2006 - Yukari Ohtomo 29 Jul 2006 - Jessica Oehler 29 Jul 2006 - Fernando Cepeda 30 Jul 2006 - Charity Spargo 30 Jul 2006 - Jennifer Jabczmski 30 Jul 2006 - Kyle Kavanough 28 Jul 2006 - Lindsey Carmichael 30 Jul 2006 - Robert Forler 29 Jul 2006 - Tomoko Nakao 28 Jul 2006 - Paul Peterson 28 Jul 2006 - Jenelle Chapman 27 Jul 2006 - Dawn Welch 23 Jul 2006 - Kyle Duff 23 Jul 2006 - Robert Kobuch 23 Jul 2006 - Liz Burns 23 Jul 2006 - Colleen Fanning 23 Jul 2006 - Michael Breedlove 23 Jul 2006 - Kurt Hoover 23 Jul 2006 - Jennie Kallembach 23 Jul 2006 - Gregorz Rusztowicz 22 Jul 2006 - Linda Sullivan 22 Jul 2006 - Tyresa Dixon 22 Jul 2006 - Antoine Stuckey 22 Jul 2006 - Dan Reyes 22 Jul 2006 - Peter Finlley 23 Jul 2006 - Boris Shogan 21 Jul 2006 - Tracy Mizera 21 Jul 2006 - Joe Pulichenc 23 Jul 2006 - Loni Wiedemann 16 Jul 2006 - Amanda Motz 16 Jul 2006 - Nickolas Clemens 16 Jul 2006 - Jean Ann Jordan 16 Jul 2006 - Karolina Szotko 15 Jul 2006 - Mary Buth 15 Jul 2006 - Michael Cumbee 15 Jul 2006 - Mackenzie Rakers 15 Jul 2006 - Anthony Miaoulls 15 Jul 2006 - Kim Blake 15 Jul 2006 - Ying Hsu 16 Jul 2006 - Catherine Warren 16 Jul 2006 - Judith Bilitzki 16 Jul 2006 - Kelsey Brown 13 Jul 2006 - Shelley Ostrom 13 Jul 2006 - Vanessa Buckley <- This one is the most scariest. 14 Jul 2006 - Heather Hall 13 Jul 2006 - Frank Daly 15 Jul 2006 - Paul Merrey 9 Jul 2006 - Brian Urbanczyk 8 Jul 2006 - Meghan Thompson 8 Jul 2006 - Jennifer Kalmus 8 Jul 2006 - Steve Minogue 8 Jul 2006 - Yuri Kaplansky 8 Jul 2006 - Leanne Bender 8 Jul 2006 - Michael Staehlin 8 Jul 2006 - Joe Dumovich 6 Jul 2006 - Jeff Griffin 6 Jul 2006 - David Griffin 6 Jul 2006 - Shawn Savage 5 Jul 2006 - Stephanie Friedlund 4 Jul 2006 - Jay Vinas 5 Jul 2006 - Tiffany Ketelsen 3 Jul 2006 - Sriram Srinivasan 4 Jul 2006 - Amanda Bradley 1 Jul 2006 - Sean Flahavis 1 Jul 2006 - Timothy Marks 3 Jul 2006 - Vijayarvnar Rangarat 4 Jul 2006 - Leon Mcneil 1 Jul 2006 - Inka Waly 2 Jul 2006 - William Murray 1 Jul 2006 - Patricio Aguilar 1 Jul 2006 - Scott Gira 1 Jul 2006 - Wendy Jurinek 30 Jun 2006 - Don Shearer 30 Jun 2006 - Ryan McKenna 29 Jun 2006 - Armin Teuchtmann.at 29 Jun 2006 - Eric Goll 29 Jun 2006 - Meghan Ginnan 30 Jun 2006 - Jennifer Brockway 26 Jun 2006 - Sam Talarczyk 6 Jul 2006 - Ray Gerrity 24 Jun 2006 - Keli Goddard 24 Jun 2006 - Katie Enright 19 Jun 2006 - Nick Horween 23 Jun 2006 - Renardo Gist 19 Jun 2006 - Denise Olsen 6 Jul 2006 - John Zinzer 17 Jun 2006 - Keegan Kok 19 Jun 2006 - Mike Clark QuoteMy safety input: This was in my opinion a reckless and irresponsible jump.(Apparently he has done a lot of them this way) I think that the instructor was playing with fire and was putting the customer’s life in unnecessary danger. .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
