Allballs 0
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loudtom 5
Man you guys are crazy. Did you not know that csc and sdc are getting along this year. More so than ever.
And if those guys saw it before we lost two students from falling out of a harness wouldn't now be just a bit different????
And if you have a problem with me you should look at yourself, oh wait who are you?? and lets see who else there is to include in your statements. Just about alot of people.... People change their habits.
Lets get everyones ratings.
rant rant rant...lets see the video first though
NEXT
yo
And if those guys saw it before we lost two students from falling out of a harness wouldn't now be just a bit different????
And if you have a problem with me you should look at yourself, oh wait who are you?? and lets see who else there is to include in your statements. Just about alot of people.... People change their habits.
Lets get everyones ratings.
rant rant rant...lets see the video first though
NEXT
yo
tom #90 #54 #08 and now #5 with a Bronze :-)
loudtom 5
Dude are you and allballs and caymandiver all democrats??
Lets stick to one subject at a time and stop bringing up Nixon...
hahahahahahahaha
this is the worst insult I can come up with...
sorry to all you legit dems
lt
Lets stick to one subject at a time and stop bringing up Nixon...
hahahahahahahaha
this is the worst insult I can come up with...
sorry to all you legit dems
lt
tom #90 #54 #08 and now #5 with a Bronze :-)
QuoteOK. One more time :
You guys that are standing up for this guy
WHY ???????? . Why is he doing this . Please explain explain to me why this is necissary ? It is a simple question. Please don't tell me he has to explain it ,because you know he won't.
Telling me he is a nice guy doesn't cut it
Agreed. The "let he without sin cast the first stone" defense is a lame one.
Two wrongs don't make a right, however three lefts DO!
Its called progression, and yes it does make for a better video!!!
GOOD JOB JAN MEYER ON GETTING ALL INSTRUCTORS TO STAB EACH OTHER IN THE BACK..........SEE WHAT YOU HAVE STARTED!!! FINGERS ARE BEING POINTED AND ACCUSATIONS ARE BEING MADE, BEFORE YOU KNOW IT YOU WILL HAVE NO TI'S LEFT BECAUSE WE CAN FIND FAULT OR 1 BAD JUMP FROM ALL INSTRUCTORS EVERYWHERE.
GOOD JOB JAN MEYER ON GETTING ALL INSTRUCTORS TO STAB EACH OTHER IN THE BACK..........SEE WHAT YOU HAVE STARTED!!! FINGERS ARE BEING POINTED AND ACCUSATIONS ARE BEING MADE, BEFORE YOU KNOW IT YOU WILL HAVE NO TI'S LEFT BECAUSE WE CAN FIND FAULT OR 1 BAD JUMP FROM ALL INSTRUCTORS EVERYWHERE.
MakeItHappen 15
QuoteQuoteBTW, IMHO, Jan is doing the right thing here because her posting here is enabling her to get new leads for her investigation that she otherwise has no other way to get because dropzone.com has pretty much become THE way to reach the masses! ;-)
This is just grand. We have an elected director doing an investigation in Skydiving's equivalent of the Jerry Springer show. Says a lot about her credibility to me.
THis is funny. The 'investigation' was over more than a week ago by the RD, Aug. 17 to be precise.
THis is a thread where people are discussing the relative merits of a well documented manuever by a TI.
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MakeItHappen 15
QuoteIts called progression, and yes it does make for a better video!!!
GOOD JOB JAN MEYER
THanks.
QuoteON GETTING ALL INSTRUCTORS TO STAB EACH OTHER IN THE BACK..........SEE WHAT YOU HAVE STARTED!!! FINGERS ARE BEING POINTED AND ACCUSATIONS ARE BEING MADE, BEFORE YOU KNOW IT YOU WILL HAVE NO TI'S LEFT BECAUSE WE CAN FIND FAULT OR 1 BAD JUMP FROM ALL INSTRUCTORS EVERYWHERE.
People making incendiary posts are part of the online culture.
Don't you just love it when someone quotes you out of context?
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MakeItHappen 15
QuoteHYPOCRITICAL meaning noone ever tried to hide it or avoid getting caught. Bill morrisey, Glenn bangs among others saw this for years by many TIs not just Jacko and condoned it. REAL EXTREMEs technology put it out there because chicagoland have it. But previous posts show it on theCK website amongst other places from years ago if you bother to look.
If this is true, I am shocked and disappointed.
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QuoteThis is a witch hunt, there are many TIs doing this, and it takes alot of control to be able to do so.
USPA and strong cannot act on this as they have known for many years it was going on and commended the individual in question whilst standing with him and watching the videos and praising him for being such a talented instructor.
whoa man, you say uspa and strong company knew and praised, like wow, and commended him? you are going to need to show us how that happened! proof?
talented instructor, that is a good one, if danger to the student is a talent
this is interesting seeing so many people thinking that uspa should do more to this guy. usually everybody screams uspa is the bad guy.
As stated previously TI's have been using these moves for nearly 10 years now, WITHOUT a single incident.
Despite the many mis-informed and uneducated opinions, the fact still remains that when performed by an appropriately experienced TI it is no more dangerous than a TI flying belly to earth.
The lats and top clips do not hold the student in their harness. Leg straps and belly bands are what keep them in. (As re-itterated after the two unfortuate accidents.)
Sidespins occur with loose or tight lats.
Maybe instead of asking why do they do it. You should be asking why is it a problem all of a sudden.. Why haven't people like Jan found out the truth and stuck to the real facts??
(I am also aware of Strong and USPA stating that it was pretty cool.)
Agreed. The "let he without sin cast the first stone" defense is a lame one.
Despite the many mis-informed and uneducated opinions, the fact still remains that when performed by an appropriately experienced TI it is no more dangerous than a TI flying belly to earth.
The lats and top clips do not hold the student in their harness. Leg straps and belly bands are what keep them in. (As re-itterated after the two unfortuate accidents.)
Sidespins occur with loose or tight lats.
Maybe instead of asking why do they do it. You should be asking why is it a problem all of a sudden.. Why haven't people like Jan found out the truth and stuck to the real facts??
(I am also aware of Strong and USPA stating that it was pretty cool.)
QuoteOK. One more time :
You guys that are standing up for this guy
WHY ???????? . Why is he doing this . Please explain explain to me why this is necissary ? It is a simple question. Please don't tell me he has to explain it ,because you know he won't.
Telling me he is a nice guy doesn't cut it
Agreed. The "let he without sin cast the first stone" defense is a lame one.
QuoteTake his ratings along with at least 16 other TI's that i know of doing this on a regular basis.
If you make an example of one you must make an example of all.
heh man send their names to Jan, she will take care of it.
slug 1
Hi Folks
This is a jump day
How about you all stop pissing in ea others rice bowl, grow up and think about what your saying in a public forum
Not a TM or any other type of worker bee
R.I.P.
This is a jump day
How about you all stop pissing in ea others rice bowl, grow up and think about what your saying in a public forum
Not a TM or any other type of worker bee
R.I.P.
The strong incident stated some thing about the lower back band being misplaced as a contributing and direct cause of the incident.
Read this months skydiving. If you think Strong condones this, what is in print today contradicts it.
Who cares about what was "Cool" yesterday if it could kill some one today?
The fact is 2 incidents happened due to the harness not being set in the proper position and tightened correctly.
The fact is USPA, PIA, RWS and Strong Ent. all came out with a "T-I's and DZ's, fix this now statement".
"Cool" video should not include wanton disregard for life and willingly endangering a person with no experience in our sport. You want to take an experienced (licensed) jumper up on a Tandem and try and kill them and get lucky and not, have fun.
Ted Strong takes this so serious, the new "Y" back design is being jumped by him, trying to induce the same fatal issues. The originator of the design was so serious, he didn't wait for some one to come out with the design he did it and sent it to the manufacturer.
Read this months skydiving. If you think Strong condones this, what is in print today contradicts it.
Who cares about what was "Cool" yesterday if it could kill some one today?
The fact is 2 incidents happened due to the harness not being set in the proper position and tightened correctly.
The fact is USPA, PIA, RWS and Strong Ent. all came out with a "T-I's and DZ's, fix this now statement".
"Cool" video should not include wanton disregard for life and willingly endangering a person with no experience in our sport. You want to take an experienced (licensed) jumper up on a Tandem and try and kill them and get lucky and not, have fun.
Ted Strong takes this so serious, the new "Y" back design is being jumped by him, trying to induce the same fatal issues. The originator of the design was so serious, he didn't wait for some one to come out with the design he did it and sent it to the manufacturer.
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!
So, start being safe, first!!!
RoryJ 0
QuoteOK. One more time :
You guys that are standing up for this guy
WHY ???????? . Why is he doing this . Please explain explain to me why this is necissary ? It is a simple question. Please don't tell me he has to explain it ,because you know he won't.
Telling me he is a nice guy doesn't cut it
Necessary? Is jumping out of planes necessary? No. It DOES make for a better video, IMO, for the person who is going to come out, do one jump and never do another. In fact, it could potentially make them look into continuing to skydive because there are so many ways to fly one's body, not just belly to earth.
I have seen it done by folks with several thousands of jumps under their belts who KNEW what they were doing because they had put in many long hours in the air and CAN do it. Necessity is not the issue there.
I will be going for my tandem rating in a few short months. Would I be doing such a thing? Hell no, because I know that I am nowhere near the league of skydiver that Jack-o is. I will be plenty scared shitless my first few hundred tandems to even worry about doing such a thing. However, hats off to him and I have personally seen Mr. Bangs watching videos at CK of such things going on and he did not seem to have a problem, or groundings would have happened LONG ago.
That is my piece for now.
Not again!
feuergnom 28
QuoteI will be plenty scared shitless my first few hundred tandems
if you really feel this way, don't even think of becoming a TI. seriously. period.
The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle
dudeist skydiver # 666
dudeist skydiver # 666
Actually I beg to differ, I would much rather have a candidate that understands this is not just another skydive for him or her and not something they should take lightly and risk anothers life for their "Coolness factor".
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!
So, start being safe, first!!!
feuergnom 28
okay , before this thread deters much further: imho there is a big difference between knowing about inherent rsiks and acting accordingly and "being scared shitless", which in my book reads as "being paralysed and forgetting anything one has learned".
maybe i am very harsh here, BUT (and this is a big "but" indeed) - if i ever become "scared shitless" i would consider this to be the best time to quit the sport.
if you want to we can take this to pm's ok?
maybe i am very harsh here, BUT (and this is a big "but" indeed) - if i ever become "scared shitless" i would consider this to be the best time to quit the sport.
if you want to we can take this to pm's ok?
The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle
dudeist skydiver # 666
dudeist skydiver # 666
tonyhays 86
Progression? What type of progression are you talking about? The one the includes putting a students life in more and more danger???![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]")
I don't care how good the tandem instructor is or how many jumps this guy has under his belt. High jump numbers are not an excuse for gross stupidity.
As had been said many times, tandem jumps are not just another skydive. This guy apparently is making it much more than that. A tandem jump should be all about the student, not the instructor. This makes for a very poor video IMO.
I don't care how good the tandem instructor is or how many jumps this guy has under his belt. High jump numbers are not an excuse for gross stupidity.
As had been said many times, tandem jumps are not just another skydive. This guy apparently is making it much more than that. A tandem jump should be all about the student, not the instructor. This makes for a very poor video IMO.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
QuoteThis is a jump day IMO the mods may be busy or this thread could have been locked by now.
Not quite,we have our eyes on it.However you are not far off. If it continues to go the way of the playground fight it and or individuals will be delt with accordingly. Lets not lose sight of the issue here to the noise.
"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING
QuoteIts called progression, and yes it does make for a better video!!!
***
A better video for who the TM? All those vidio people need to fired too for focusing on the on the TM instead of the paying student. What horrible videos. The TM was centered and the student was often cut off.
After seeing these videos I am embarrased that I am a skydiver to see another skydiver, so obviously full of himself, treat these students so dangerously.
JBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.
QuoteDespite the many mis-informed and uneducated opinions, the fact still remains that when performed by an appropriately experienced TI it is no more dangerous than a TI flying belly to earth.
Hypothetically, if this really were safe, which, IMO, is not, don't you think it ruins the STUDENTS video? Its appalling how he uses them like a surf board. The videos are all about him and not the paying student. Its sickening.
j
Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.
MicDon 0
What progression? You have a wide open forum here to explain to me what the goal is, we are trying to progress towards. I am not one that wants to be left behind.
Someone here claimed that Bill Morrissey has no problem with this?? Put it in black and white with his signature on the bottom and I will try and find myself a student to have a go at this way of flying. I have 4500 tandems plus and have been doing them since the T500 and 425 days and worked at many DZ's.I would surely have seen this being done if thousands has been done this way .Haven't seen it yet.
Good video?? I agree with the previous post. Most of the videos suck and wasn't in the interest of the student
That “cool” videos you are referring too....The ones from the previous fatalities now go by a different name...... Exhibit number 1 in civil court
Someone here claimed that Bill Morrissey has no problem with this?? Put it in black and white with his signature on the bottom and I will try and find myself a student to have a go at this way of flying. I have 4500 tandems plus and have been doing them since the T500 and 425 days and worked at many DZ's.I would surely have seen this being done if thousands has been done this way .Haven't seen it yet.
Good video?? I agree with the previous post. Most of the videos suck and wasn't in the interest of the student
That “cool” videos you are referring too....The ones from the previous fatalities now go by a different name...... Exhibit number 1 in civil court
i jump at the dz in question and the discussions going on at th dz are very indiferent on if this is good or bad. i don't belive this is a good idea but all i can do is express my opinion. i started jumping in 93 at hinckleyand have always prided ourselves on our safety . in the past anyone could see a safety issue and adress it but we don't have that anymore. our comments are heard but rarely resolved anymore. most of the curant jumpers watch and shake their heads when they see some of the things we see on student jumps. i hope this is resolved quickley and safely so we can again say i want to bring my friend here to have a first jump
LOUDTOM your opinions dont count for much by anyone that knows you!!!! Talk about safety well your pre jump activities are well known by all who know you and you are putting your passengers in danger!!!!! Should uspa take your rating??
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