Deceiving myself?

[PalmettoTiger 1]

I recently upsized my reserve, from a PD176 to a PD218. With my exit weight at 242, I realized that the 176 was just asking for trouble when I'd probably already be in quite a bit of it. Not to mention that it's way smaller than my main (230), which adds to the trouble factor.
What I'm worried about now is the fact that from the moment I bought that rig, I questioned the reserve size, but I jumped it anyway. What else could I be doing in this sport that is just wrong, but I'm rationalizing away?
I wanted to put some really inspiring lyrics here but none of them fit.
>< !!

[quade 4]

How closely do you keep track of your opening altitudes?
I would think that it would be pretty easy to -s-l-o-w-l-y- let that creep lower and lower.
Here's what I do to try to keep that from happening.
When I log my skydives, I pull out the Pro-Track and also log; top half average speed, bottom half average speed, average speed, max speed and when the Pro-Track thought I was in the saddle.
Yes, I have occasionally caught myself creeping lower than planned. Maybe it's only 300 feet on a couple of jumps during a 16 jump weekend, but it reminds me to pay attention to what I'm doing.
Paul
http://futurecam.com/skydive.html

[landmissle 2]

Hi PalmettoTiger,
You've asked a question that only you can answer. And a question that you probably already know the answer to.
Our sport is filled with adrenaline addicted junkies that in some cases(o.k., maybe alot...) are also impatient. They see something being done by the local hot-shot and immediately what to immulate it,not realizing (or caring) that the local hot-shot may have perfected said stunt with the investement of several hundred (maybe thousands) of jumps and years of experience.
What does this have to do with you? Well, even if you're not the one that wants to immediately immulate what you see, the people you jump with, or the folks you talk with at the DZ might. Their peer pressure is very powerful and often times not easy to seperate from well founded guidance and advice. And so it's very easy to forget all those wonderful but boring safety guidlines and advice you heard from your instructor during your training days.
The point is while skydiving is a wonderful life enriching sport that is relatively safe, it is not very forgiving of the "tragedy-of-errors". The boring saftey advice (i.e, the size of your reserve, just to name one.) has most likely been written in the blood of someone before you.
It is up to you to seek reliable guidance and digest the information you recieve. This is made tricky because often times a question asked ten times will get ten differing answers. However, if safety and longivity in this sport are important to you, I bet you already have a good idea who you can talk to locally that seems to have their act together.
I'm not suggesting that you don't push the "envelope" in order to get better at some task or to explore a new discipline. Rather, I'm suggesting that you slowly (baby steps, baby steps) approach your boundries rather than brazingly blast right past them. Seek the advice of others, especially those that you respect and trust, and listen to the voice in your head when it's sending you danger signals-heeding it's warning will serve you much better than the bravado shield of invulnerabilty that too many folks rely upon. Complacency kills.
Finally, when you screw up, rather than make excuses, embrace it and greet it like an old friend. Your mistake just did you the greatest of favors, it let you live to jump again. Give it the respect it deserves and learn from it.
I apologize if this seems a little soap-boxy, trust me your not alone in re-examining assumptions or practices, I do it all the time. You've already taken the most important step, you've reappraised yourself and are seeking input from others. That's what it is all about.
Feet up, heads down, blue skies,

Landmissle

[Michele 1]

Landmissle, well said. !!!!!
"What of the dreams that never die? Turn to your left at the end of the sky".
~e e cummings~

[Watcher 0]

Dont stress, Its all what your comfortable with. I am 185 out the door, and i have a PD 113R, its all in what you consider acceptable risk. Relax have fun, stay alert, and go at your own pace.
Jonathan
C-31802

[PalmettoTiger 1]

I appreciate all the advice. I may not have been clear about my situation, tho. I only have 19 jumps over the past 18 months (long layoffs for school and saving up to pay for AFF and gear). I've also moved from a small DZ to a larger one, where I don't know people well enough to know who is good for advice and who isn't. I'm looking for specific things that low-time jumpers usually don't know about, or tend to forget in the deluge of information in ground school. Things like letting my deployment altitude creep down, too.
I wanted to put some really inspiring lyrics here but none of them fit.
>< !!

[PhreeZone 20]

Do you realise how much over the placecards you are on that reserve?
I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique

[Geoff 0]

220 pounds maximum
http://www.performancedesigns.com/products/reserve.html
so I make that 35 pounds under.
Doesn't mean I'd recommend loading a reserve that high of course!
geoff

[PhreeZone 20]

For some reason I was thinking it was 176 max on the 113r..... My mistake. I sure the heck would'nt want to land an F111 canopy at that type of loading.....Can you say PLF??
I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique

[eml 0]

as long as you do what you're supposed to do religiously, like pack with attention to detail, full gear checks every time,practice reserve procedures on the ride up, stay aware of altitude,watch everyone at breakoff to assure you are tracking away from them, keep your head on the swivel under canopy, and most of all have fun! Be a defensive diver, Don't get complacid about any of that, and you should have a fun, safe skydiving career.

[cobaltdan 0]

not that i am endorsing it but i have more than a few rides on a pd 113 @ 76# over the placard (i also jump an atair 110 german tso)...btw, no i am not stupid. happens that this particular canopy has been tested to a much higher limit than the placard (do not count on this being the case for every reserve!!!!). no plf's ever, flies and is much bigger than my main (flies like a specter).
point is: #1 concern on a reserve is to make sure the rating can handle your weight at the highest speed you may use it. # 2 concern should be am i comfortable landing it.
i think some people fixate on having a reserve much larger than their main becaues they are scared of how it will land....it is silly that most people would not think to demo a reserve...
try before you buy. it will help you feel confident in your choice of size and, the first time you land any canopy should not be under less than ideal circumstances.
sincerely,
dan

[Watcher 0]

Actually the first jump i put on my Javelin NJ (its a pullout) and i misrouted the bridle such that when i pulled it put the tension on the tab the bridle goes through (at the base of the Pilot Chute) instead of the pin, so i it was time to use the reserve. Its a beautiful yellow i might add and opened so softly, but i simply did 2 practice flares, turned onto final and got about a 15 foot surf out of it, its just like landing your main but its F111, 7 square feet smaller than my Main, and the stall point is more shallow but thats a PD thing, im more used to precision and Icarus being deeper. But all in all its a nice landing reserve and gets me down safely.
Jonathan

[wildblue 7]

Holy bean filled dog turd batman!
19 jumps, and a 176 reserve (1.375 loading) ... did no one where you jump say anything about that? Maybe question you on it?
I ain't happy, I'm feeling glad
I got sunshine, in a bag

[mikefarmer 0]

Quote

its just like landing your main but its F111

Guys, I hate to bust up the "F111" issue, but F111 with a very few jumps (reserves) has negligible porosity and should fly just like ZP.
"It's better to be dead and cool than alive and uncool."-Marlboro Man

[Spectrejumper 0]

>>point is: #1 concern on a reserve is to make sure the rating can handle your weight at the highest speed you may use it. # 2 concern should be am i comfortable landing it.
i think some people fixate on having a reserve much larger than their main becaues they are scared of how it will land....it is silly that most people would not think to demo a reserve...
try before you buy. it will help you feel confident in your choice of size and, the first time you land any canopy should not be under less than ideal circumstances. <<<
Maybe some people want a big reserve so that their Cypres isn't just a waste of money. As far as demoing reserves goes, I don't see much point in putting a few jumps on a canopy that you don't plan on jumping again in the foreseeable future. Test jumpers may use their reserves with enough frequency to accurately recall the flight characteristics, but most fun jumpers go hundreds if not thousands of jumps between reserve rides. I agree that the bottom line is personal comfort, I guess I just have different criteria for my last chance.
Mike D-23312
"It's such a shame to spend your time away like this...existing." JMH

[in2falling 0]

"not that i am endorsing it but i have more than a few rides on a pd 113 @ 76# over the placard (i also jump an atair 110 german tso)...btw, no i am not stupid. happens that this particular canopy has been tested to a much higher limit than the placard (do not count on this being the case for every reserve!!!!). no plf's ever, flies and is much bigger than my main (flies like a specter)."
Dan how comfortable would you be landing that 113 with out flaring it?

[skybytch 273]

As is if you don't know what I'm going to say..... While I'm glad you went up to the 218, I'm still kinda worried about your reserve size. Looking at the PD website, they recommend a max. weight of 235 pounds for an advanced jumper on a PD218R reserve. How advanced do you feel? Averaging one jump a month over a year and half... I think you ought to consider upsizing again to a 235, which has a recommended max. weight of 235 lbs for an intermediate jumper... which at this point I don't think you would consider yourself to be either...
You need to consider what you'll do if you have to land that reserve on your next jump... and the spot was bad.... and you got the reserve out just a little low.... so you're over the housing tract... Or the ultimate worst case - you're knocked out and your Cypres got a canopy over your head... will you survive the likely-to-be-downwind-in-a-bad-place-with-the-brakes-still-stowed landing on that canopy?
As for what else could you be doing... make your personal safety the most important priority right now. Build a safety oriented routine into the planning of every skydive. Check your rig before you put it on. Get a gear check before you board the plane. Do a pre-exit check on your own rig while in the plane - chest strap, leg strap, leg strap, main handle, cutaway handle, reserve handle, altimeter. Then have a friend check your pins and give you a quick visual look over.
Stick with small dives - RW solos to 3 ways, freefly solos or jumps with a coach - until you've developed the basic skills needed to safely jump with more people. Don't let others talk you into something you don't feel ready for - if all you've ever done is 2-ways you aren't ready for a 10 way, trust me! That bears repeating. Don't let others talk you in to ANYTHING you don't feel ready for, whether it be a larger dive, smaller canopy, jumping in high wind conditions or unstable weather or jumping when you're really tired or really hungover.
And go jump more! pull and flare,
lisa

[Jessica 0]

Quote

Then have a friend check your pins and give you a quick visual look over.

Speaking of pin checks...
Does anyone else get paranoid that people checking your pins are just sort of...."Yep, there's a pin!" then closing you back up and thumping you on the back? What's a good pin check? How long should it take? I always check the bridle, too....
The reason I worry is that on loads of experienced jumpers and no students, I'm often the only, literally ONLY person who asks for a pin check. I think it surprises people.
Pet me! I'm harmless and cute!

[nacmacfeegle 0]

Here's my routine, check the rig prior to putting it on, get on the plane and relax, but be aware of the effects of movement, snagging etc. On jump run reach round and feel the reserve flap, then feel the pin and bridle etc under the main flap, then check your main handle to ensure the spandex hasn't swallowed or spat out the handle. With practise its easy peasy, you can also 'set up' a dodgy pin and see what that feels like, and practise recognising it......
Sooner or later yor gonna be on a load with nobody qualified to pin check you, eg a student load, with JM in the door and you at the back......
Works for me any way
Cya
Dv

[Aviatrr 0]

Quote

Does anyone else get paranoid that people checking your pins are just sort of...."Yep, there's a pin!" then closing you back up and thumping you on the back? What's a good pin check? How long should it take? I always check the bridle, too....

I normally do my own pin checks by feel.. Too many times I've seen people open a flap, not even really look, close it back up(or sometimes not), and say "You're good!".. I can check the pin and bridle on the main(just can't tell if the PC is cocked, but then again, I've verified that several times by that point so I'm comfortable with it), and check the reserve pin by feel..
Mike

[nacmacfeegle 0]

Amen.

[cobaltdan 0]

"Dan how comfortable would you be landing that 113 with out flaring it? "
i've done it, and wish to avoid it in the future.
in this sport we all accept certain risks to participate in the diciplines we love.
in that i choose to jump a sub 100 main, i am basically limited by container design to jumping a max size reserve around 113 (with a mush pack main in an nj a 126 reserve). even if i did have containers available to allow me to jump a reserve say 5 sizes up from my main , i would still choose to jump with a small reserve. statistically an unconsious reserve ride is not probable enough for me to decide to jump and lug around a reserve double the size of my main.
-dan

[skybytch 273]

Quote

statistically an unconsious reserve ride is not probable enough for me to decide to jump and lug
around a reserve double the size of my main.

So I'd assume that you don't have a Cypres in that rig? If an unconsious reserve ride is not probable enough to carry a reserve sized for survival in that situation, then why waste the money and container space to carry a Cypres?
pull and flare,
lisa

[Jimbo 0]

Quote

So I'd assume that you don't have a Cypres in that rig? If an unconsious reserve ride is not probable enough to carry a reserve sized for survival in that situation, then why waste the money and container space to carry a Cypres?

You know what they say about assumptions Lisa, be careful.
Dan, as an experienced jumper, indicated that he felt the chances of an unconsious reserve ride were slim enough that he chooses to not jump a larger reserve. Dan's been doing this a while and he's made that choice. Right or wrong, he'll live with it. Now - nowhere in Dan's statement did he indicate whether or not he chooses to use a Cypres so why attack on that point?
It's perfectly conceivable to me why someone would be willing to jump a small reserve _with_ a Cypres.
* A Cypres can save you when you've lost altitude awareness.
* A Cypres can save you when you are consious but unable to pull. There's a chance that whatever kept you from pulling will be remedied after a reserve canopy is out.
* If a Cypres activates the reserve and a jumper is unable to steer/brake the canopy, but still consious, at least the jumper can attempt to prepare for a crash landing.
* Finally - a unconsious landing under a highly loaded reserve gives you infinitely better chances of survival than an unconsious landing under nothing.
Now. I don't know if Dan jumps with a Cypres or not. But your earlier statement suggests that anyone jumping a highly loaded reserve has no use for a Cypres. I just don't think that's true.
-
Jim

[skybytch 273]

Sorry if that came across as an attack; it was not meant that way. Was an honest question that I have asked others who carry both highly loaded reserves and Cypres... none of whom gave me as good of reasons as you just did.
pull and flare,
lisa